Second City Settling Site (S.C.S.S)

Should our second city be on the Spot marked X on the Map?


  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .

Swissempire

Poet Jester
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
5,018
Location
Hamilton College/Florida
This is an intiative poll for the Settle of the Site denoted on the map with an X, Yes is a vote for it, No is a vote against it. If no wins, a redissuccion of the settlement spot will resume immedialty. The dicussion thread can be found here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=156145

This is the Map with the site( X) that we are voting on!
showpost.php


If someone could put it up in the poll, other than the link, that would be great. For some reason, i can't make it an attachment!
 
CRAP!!! I misspelled Settled!
 
Yeah! Deny the Mongolians their Keshiks for stealing our hut!
 
It won't deny them, actually. There's a second herd of Horses located south of the settle point (10+ squares), south even of the Mongol city. We can get one, but it's extremely unlikely (and extremely risky) that we'd get both.

-- Ravensfire
 
I will assume we might have a bit of wiggle room in the placement if we find copper right outside the area? Mainly less than 2 or 3 squares south/southwesternly is my main concern. As much as the mongols need hores we need copper to kill thier horses.

I will wait to vote...
 
Please consider voting against this site which I believe was chosen without the more complete knowledge given to us by the exploits of our glorious warriors.

Figure 1


Please see Fig. 1. Proposed site A is outlined in GOLD, proposed site A1 is outlined in GREEN. Proposed site B1 is outlined in RED.

By occupying A1 as opposed to A, we lose, principally, the four land tiles noted with GOLD dots. They are 3 plains forests and a grassland forest, far away from a river. The rest of the tiles we will lose are either desert (2 tiles, which I consider basically unworkable for the duration of the game), or the 5 tiles of coastline, which eventually yield 2 food and 2 commerce after we build (hypothetically) a lighthouse in A. The base food of the site, with the lighthouse, supports 18.5 citizens after the wheat is fully irrigated.

Proposed site A1, by contast, gains the land tiles indicated by GREEN dots. They are 3 riverine jungle, 2 plains, a riverine plain, a riverine grassland forest, a riverine forested grassland hill, a grassland, a desert, and a jungle grassland hill. The base food of the site supports 16.5 citizens.

Now I will make the case for A1. I think that the proposal for A was made based on incomplete knowledge of our world, which has now been augmented by our glorious warriors! First of all, we have a net loss of a desert, which means the working capacity of the site will be 19 citizens as opposed to 18. Five of these tiles may be immediately irrigated, and after we discover civil service, we need ONLY five tiles to be irrigated in addition to the wheat tile to fully support each tile being worked for the life of the city, happiness and health notwithstanding (19-16.5 = 2.5 citizens * 2 additional food per citizen = 5 farm/windmill tiles). In addition to the productive horse tile which is shared by both sites, A1 gains two crucial hills, which give site A1 a serious production advantage over A. Considering the strategic prospects of war with the Mongols, I place a high priority on sites with productive capacity nearby Mongolia. Others may disagree. Site A1 also creates a chokepoint five turns after settlement of the city, just like site A. Furthermore, A1 has direct access to fresh water, giving it a health bonus during the entire lifetime of the city.

I continue with an analysis of tiles left unworked. Please see Fig. 2. Proposed site B1 is outlined in RED, proposed site B2 is outlined in AQUA.

Figure 2



While I do not disagree that a city site that is best is one which will work, eventually, both the clam and the incense on the southern edge of our peninsula, just before the isthmus, I suggest that site B1 was proposed while considering site A to be a truly sound proposal. Let us consider a case in which we allow no overlap between the working areas of B, RED, A, GOLD, and our fourth city. Then we may choose, for example, site C, outlined in BLUE, to allow us to catch fish and gain a harbor on our western coast, but as you can see, this is the nearest site that allows no overlap, and it leaves the land tiles marked with GOLD dots unworked, which include a plains, a plains forest, a grassland forest, and two deserts.

Figure 3



Figure 4



Now let us explore our other option, and assume that we will have settled site A1, GREEN. We will settle, instead, proposed site B2, outlined, again, in AQUA. Then, if we allow no overlap, and have settled sites A1 and B2, we have the unworkable tiles marked by AQUA dots, being a desert, two plains forests, and a grassland forest. There is little substantial difference between these unworked plots and the unworked plots noted above in GOLD. Furthermore, while an allowance for no overlap may push our desired western port 1 plot north (see Fig. 3) from the BLUE "X" to the PINK "X", we do gain the wheat resource on the outskirts of our capital, without overlap, AND we are now able to settle to the east of our isthmus port, B2, without any overlap. See Fig. 4. By occupying site D, BLACK, we are able to work both the wheat and clam resources to the southeast, establish a city with fresh water AND a second eastern port, and leave only the tiles with BLACK dots unworked. I feel that this dovetails nicely with the area worked by our capital city.

In conclusion, I would like to point out that A1 gives us a chokepoint, a city with a health bonus, a city with productive capacity AND enables us to use the resources of our home peninsula more completely, with well-planned city placement thereafter. With its horses and hills, A1 gives us another serious contender for military production on a map with few nearby hills and a dangerous enemy to the south. Please vote against site A.
 
I vote abstain. I think that Chillaxation's proposed site might be better. I think that a new initiative should be started regardless of this polls outcome. I'm really ambivalent on the issue as I think that both sites have merit. I reserve my decision making time for that issue for the next poll.
 
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