Open Borders with Mongolia.--discussion

robboo

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In a recent discussion in the term 3 SoW thread, a few of us have discussed the possibilites of Open borders with Mongolia.

I see it like this. The likelihood of us going to war in the future is fairly decent. We need to know how much land and what resources the mongolian have access to. One drawback is that it allows the Mongolians to sneak a settler pass Abydos. I dont think that would be a problem because of the large amount of land present to the south of Abydos. In addition, will gain a positive relations with them and that will help instopping him from declaring war on us. Therefore we will be able to declare War at a time and place of our choosing. Also trade will help us research faster.

I hope to generate some discussion and maybe post a poll later on today.
 
There is much more knowledge we can garner and use against the Mongolians than they can against us.

"All the business of war, and indeed all the business of life, is to endeavour to find out what you don't know from what you do." --Duke of Wellington
 
How angry does the AI get with you if you end an open borders agreement? If they try to sneak a settler past us, we can just end the open borders and they will be pushed back to where they came from. Or we might just do that if we're done gathering information. But if closing the borders anger him, then it could start a chain of events that would lead to war.
 
Sigma said:
How angry does the AI get with you if you end an open borders agreement? If they try to sneak a settler past us, we can just end the open borders and they will be pushed back to where they came from. Or we might just do that if we're done gathering information. But if closing the borders anger him, then it could start a chain of events that would lead to war.
I believe you will get a -1 by closing the borders. Once we close the borders would mean it's time for war IMO. I'd think if they tried planting a city nearby it would be the first to go especially if it's on our side of the choke.
 
I have never seen the AI put a city behind my cultural borders if there are other city sites available. He might walk it pass and settle on Abydos' East but that again is not a problem. We could take that new founded city with the 4 axes we have now.

Right now if we go to war with them...we dont have any idea what they might have.Also there could be another civ on the other side of him...which would give us more trade for techs.

When we close the borders...we should declare war that turn.
 
I don't see any problems with opening borders with Mongolia. I just expect them to be closed in the not to distant future so that we can "expand" in their direction.
 
robboo said:
I have never seen the AI put a city behind my cultural borders if there are other city sites available.

That's because (translation: Soren programmed it due to the fact that...) a city that's built out in the open and inside (behind) another civ's borders will have high maintainance. BTW, we already have enough maintainence problems as it is. One the one hand, OB would give us intelligence of their lands, but yes, it would damage reputation slightly. Then again, it's already damaged because we refused open borders with them.

On the other hand, who cares about rep with Mongolia if we're gonna destroy them? I'm kind of on the fence right now. In fact, I'm going to set up a poll to see our "Most Favored Nation". But, the intelligence to see what they have would be nice. We could sneak a few horse archers (once we get them) around for some nice sabotage of key resources... (note - the AI knows how to defend them at times).
 
think we should open borders with them, the chances of them planting a city are slim to none whereas we can gain important facts about where to attack for future reference.
 
I also support the idea of Open Borders with Mongolia now, as we have already some military force ans we could easily capture/destroy newly built mongolian city where we don't want it.
Robboo, post poll, maybe if there is big majority before the TC, the borders might be open even before the poll closes.
 
If we plan to attack them in the future anyway then we should not make nice with them now and open our borders. Keep them out. Can we not gather some intelligence without entering their lands?
 
donsig said:
If we plan to attack them in the future anyway then we should not make nice with them now and open our borders. Keep them out. Can we not gather some intelligence without entering their lands?
If we can't walk through their cities and darkness, no. The information we have now is not sufficient to see everything inside.
 
yup Whomp's right. There is no way to see their lands without walking through it as we haven't the capability to trade maps yet.
 
I think we ought to wait until we know a bit more about which direction we're expanding. We haven't got forces able to do reconaissance yet anyway. I'm unopposed to the idea of opening borders after we have a plan for our next city. While the opening and closing in case of Mongol settlement wouldn't hurt us unduly with a nation that - in the end - must be destroyed, a little extra time gives us the ability to act with initiative rather than responding to their tribe's movements.
 
We do have forces 2 squares out side their territory. We have 2 warriors located in Abydos. They will be able to start into Mongolian territory at the end of this turnchat once an axman gets to Abydos.
 
That's exactly right - and that's why I think immediately opening the borders to Mongolia isn't necessary. The new garrison won't be in place until near the end of the TC. By the time we get to the next TC, we'll have planned expansion in more depth.
 
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