monkspider
Warlord
Mr.Bee added the rest of the new leader's favorite civics in this thread.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=177483
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=177483
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Thanks. It's added. 
Watiggi said:A military Academy, 2-3 Military Advisors, Heroic Epic, West Point and Police State
As Tokugawa
And you forgot Barracks, Theology and Vassalage...
D'oh! I will edit it for that extra punch. You have immortalised my error in your quote anywayTruronian said:As Tokugawa
And you forgot Barracks, Theology and Vassalage...
Yeah, as Tokugawa it will be interesting... once gunpower is discovered.
Haaayyy!! Tokugawa with Nationhood! He can draft gunpower units with at least 3 promotions!
+25% is not much compared to +100%. Or put another way, +125% is not a great deal different from +100%. I do not forsee burning a great general on this combination unless they're really easy to come by.Willem said:
Note that Tokugawa won't stack with a stable in any way.Watiggi said:
Montezuma will be the nationhood king since he can switch in and out and seems to get -50% unhappiness from the Sacrificial Altar.
Has anyone else noticed that the Mall, Mint, and Stock Exchange say +1x% commerce, not mere gold? If that is true these are going to be very powerful, like mini bureaucracies.
DaviddesJ
Deity
Gherald said:
I very much doubt the Sacrificial Altar will affect drafting. It should only affect slavery (pop rushing).
But a +100%, plus +25% from Police State, plus +25% from Military Academy is pretty good. More importantly - and depending on how regular the Great General emerges - it may be practical to have many cities reaching +50% military production! (25% from Police State, 25% from Military Academy).Gherald said:
Huh? What do you mean? Do you mean that Tokugawa wont get any bonuses when building mounted units? Yeah I know, but IMO, Tokugawa is really about a gunpowder/seige offense. His bonuses reflect that rather well now.Gherald said:
As said above, it wouldn't make sense for it to also work for drafting. Sacrificing is sacrificing (ie, killing), not drafting.Gherald said:
You and the other guy where building a long chain of "barracks and stable and ...... and tokugawa!" -- I was just pointing out that the stable and Tokugawa's bonuses will never affect the same unit.
I see no reason why it wouldn't make sense, other than from a game balance point of view.
You are correct that sacrificing is killing. Well, apparently doing so with these altars means that when you force other people into extreme manual labor (building anything in 1 turn) they don't get as unhappy. Why would it not also affect forced military service? In practice it could mean you're threatening to sacrifice their family if they don't serve in your army... or just threatening the anti-war protesters, whatever.
Gherald, you have Isabella as Protective/Spiritual. She should be Expansive/Spiritual (Saladin is Protective/Spiritual).
Nice work
I am surprised as to how many Spiritual leaders there are and how little Philosophical leaders there are though. I wonder what their thinking was?
Nice work
I am surprised as to how many Spiritual leaders there are and how little Philosophical leaders there are though. I wonder what their thinking was?
Maybe Philosophical has been altered to make it too powerful when combined with certain traits... Who knows. Does seem odd though.
DaviddesJ
Deity
Gherald said:
In slavery, you force people to work to death (and kill them if they resist). In the draft, you force people to perform a period of service to their country (and jail or otherwise penalize them, if they refuse). Your assertion of no difference between these two things sounds more like a political statement than a realistic comparison.
In the game, slavery removes people from the population because they have died at hard labor. The draft transforms population into a different form (military units). Again, not comparable.
Aww, someone had told me she was being changed to protective and I thought it made perfect sense. It's a shame, she's certainly moved into being one of the five weakest leaders given Frederick and Cyrus' improvements.Watiggi said:
It doesn't really matter, to be honest: They have set her UB up as a Castle - which I would assume will require the Walls to build first. Her UB bonuses will be incredible for conquest too (should be able to get 10 xp cats/trebs). So I guess this in a way will give her a Protective perspective.
When were you told that she was going to be switched to Protective? Before or after the old leader trait information release?
When were you told that she was going to be switched to Protective? Before or after the old leader trait information release?
Before, just some dude online. I believed it since it seemed so logical, what with all that Moorish influence and Exp being the weakest trait.
I was also surprised they gave Saladin protective instead. I loved him in Classical era teamers, and don't think Gandhi will ever be free of the chop whore stigma.
Incredible? Ridiculous! Of all units, siege have the least need for experience. Try "barely useful".Watiggi said:
*HUH* Of ALL of the units in the game, the seige unit NEED City Raider I, II & III to stay alive. When you can spit out City Raider III Cats from your cities, you pretty much can conquer anyone (in SP - I don't play MP) and only need a small support force to protect them.Gherald said:
edit: I am NOT a fan of sacrificial units. I don't, never have, nor will I ever see the seige units as sacrificial. Give them City Raider I, II & III, be smart and you wont loose them.
Okay, so CR siege units can be useful in SP, but only because the AI is really dumb. Isabella's UB may help you with this. By all means, enjoy the fruits of your strategy for what they're worth, and I will continue to cringe whenever Random gives me the likes of Isabella in a multiplayer game.Watiggi said:
Give them CRs against a capable opponent and you will likely be evicerated before you ever get near an adequately defended city.
And by "capable opponent" I mean one who is near enough to you in skill/starting-position-luck for promotion choices to matter.
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