nihilistic said:
Well, if there is any single reason most responsible for atheists not respecting the faithful's faith, this is it. KF's ontology, as described by that paragraph, is simply ghastily unethical in principle, ludicrously delusional in terms of coherence, and ultimately imbecilic regardless of motive or outcome. Before you press that 'report post' button, let me remind you that what I am critisizing is your point of view, and I can substantiate every one of those three criticisms.
I am more likely to hit the "quote button" than the report button on the subject of religious viewpoints.
1. Your ontology is unethical. (1)You would treat everyone else as mere means. (2)You would do anything however disgusting to anyone given that your hypothetical superior ordered you to or because you anticipate there to be something for you to gain personally from doing the deed. (3)The fact that the only deciding factor for your action is whether you will be hypothetically personally rewarded in the end of it implies that you are quite devoid of empathy or conscience. How you can describe your outlook as "moral" is beyond me.
1)I wouldn't God would. The means of His will. Without some sort of control sin would fester. I would do what God asks of me though. Because I know His path is to salvation and He offers it to everyone. We can't even comprehend world peace and how to do it. God can. What makes us the "ethical" ones?
2) Correct. God helps those who help themselves. Both in His knowledge and in their own. He will guide you if you ask for it though. Sometimes you must be persistant in asking for it before you ever recieve it. He does this so that you can fully comprehend what you are asking of him so that you will know the answer when He reveals it.
3) No, my empathy and consience have a different perspective than what yours does. But it exists. The reason you assume my faith to have no morals is because they are not in line with your own thus missing. As to the first part. It isn't only to get rewarded for me. I feel God has every rite to existance. It is His and I am doomed without Him. I go with Him because I wish to continue on in harmony and it is an option I have.
2. Your ontology is delusional. (4)Throughout all this there is no substantiation that whatever deeds you carry out "in the name of god" will actually earn you whatever rewards you crave. (5)There is no reason to believe that whatever being that theoretically commanded you to these ghastly deeds will not be ghastly with you too. (6)And if you permit an argument from your side of the ontology, there is no reason to believe the offer cannot be made from, say, the devil. (7)In fact, if you do a look-up-and-replace with the term "god" to the term "devil", your post will still be coherent and retain essentially all of its implications.
4) In the bible it does.
5) You have to see this ass something ghastly. This subject of baby killing is only a mortal's view. We have a tendancy to value this earthly life instead of life itself. If Earth became 100% peaceful tomorrow and all was right and good in the world, in 5 years would you care about what we thought back then before the peace? Obviously, we were wrong about so many things, why would we turn to that for information?
6) Yep. That's why it is important to learn God's words. The point here was not to go on a baby murder spree as people are viewing it. It was to eradicate a "Spiritually diseased" thus doomed people. The children were to be killed if they did not have a mark. Because the mark meant they were already corrupted in spirit. This is something human eyes cannot see. So it looks more like just a common slaughter to us. That is why Ezekiel is crying out to God asking if the Lord is going to slaughter all of Isreal.
(7) Yes, I am not surprised by that. Look at the book of Jobe and sometimes the devil gets to try and prove you disfaithful to God before God will answer you. Guess what? We ARE like ants to them. If Satan had the power of God, we would be screwed and he would screw things up anyways as God intends to show everyone. This is why you must learn the message that God put on the earth. You're just getting hung up on babies in heaven. But God needed to mold the Earth to get it ready for Jesus.
3. Your ontology is imbecilic. I mean "imbecilic" in the very literal sense, as being mentally incapacitated. I shall explain why (to the readers that able and willing to use their brains at least) this is so: (8)your ontology displaces responsibility of your actions to your purported deity, and dissolves your need to think about them. (9)Since you've demonstrated that whether or not you may have an opinion on what your "god" orders you to do is irrelevant to whether or not you are going to do it, your intentionality or sentience isn't exactly expressed or even pertinent to discussion. Thus, functionally, you are a tool.
8) Actually, this goes in with saying I have no morals when they are just different. I assure you I still have to make decisions on my actions. I am still a sinner. I booze, smoke, have premarital sex, and other stuff too. And if you think God measures murder as more sin than smoking, you are wrong. A sin is a sin. Onle He is without sin. But he plans to remove it from us one day.
9) He will explain why He must do what He must do. It makes it easier on both people if the mortal has read his Word and can relate to him easier. By doing so, you will understand why it is. If you don't undertsand, then I would advise not following the advise too quickly. God knows you better than you know yourself. He will find the way to show you.
The above are the three reasons for which I claim I am legitimate to say:
I despise you. I despise you because I despise your pathetic ontology. I despise your ontology because it is the same kind of ontology held by the people who flew 747s into skyscrapers because they expect 72 virgins to be waiting for them.
So tell me, if your god commands you to fly plane into a building, would you do it?
Satan despises me too. He too views God's morals as messed up but for reasons different than yours. The thing to religion is you must seperate culture from it. I see how you are comparing me to the 9/11 guys and there ain't much I can say to that. God said there are people that hate me for my beliefs. But you aetheists are making it overly simplified.
A voice didn't just come down and tell Bin Laden to crash into the world trade center. Or anything like that. If that truly had been in the name of God first off, then God would have revealed himself in the victory. Religion isn't even what poloticians are discussing over the war though. It is rebel groups, "terrorists" they are after not muslims. You can't blame muslims for someone else using muslim propaganda. Wer eyou also one of the ones that said "Look! somewhere around a thousand priests molested kids in the world. It must mean that the church has no morals." Because alot of people jumped on that bandwagon. Hey lets beat the hell out of this religion for a bit now. Religion is always going to take the blame for someone else's action when it is used as propaganda.
