KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
hooray!!!!!!!!!
ALC Game #10: India/Asoka
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
hooray!!!!!!!!!
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 12: to 1730 AD
We're not at the end, not really even close, but I think it's in sight.
As the round began, you may remember, I was just starting my Taj Mahal-powered golden age. I had a free Great Scientist from Physics to burn, and a rather enticing tech trade deal available from Ragnar.
I micro-managed each city's citizens and tile assignments to get the most out of the golden age, emphasizing production and commerce tiles, even stagnating a couple of cities temporarily to get the most benefit. I built mostly universities and banks to reap their science and economic benefits, as well as to ensure that I could build Oxford and Wall Street. I also built theatres to help with the war weariness I anticipated; theatres especially magnify the effects of the culture slider, so they're good buildings to have around for late game warmongering. The Great Scientist popped for some research points towards Biology; I got another Great Scientist in Delhi two turns into the golden age; him I settled in the capital.
The one thing I did not do is trade Physics to Ragnar for Corporation and Military Tradition. I checked and saw that Physics is a direct prerequisite for Artillery and I didn't want to help out Ragnar in that regard. Also, for my path to Industrialism, it turns out I didn't need Military Tradition. I needed Corporation, but I decided to research it on my own, since it was only 3 turns--in fact, I managed to get it in 2 turns by maxing the research slider and running as many scientists as I could. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
As the golden age was 1 turn from ending, my new best friend Winnie had a very desirable tech on offer:
Again, it turns out I didn't need it for my chosen research goal, but it sure wouldn't hurt. It's interesting--it's been said that in Civ IV you don't have to research everything, that you can neglect entire branches of the tech tree, but this is the first time I've really tried it. I've bypassed Divine Right, as I often do, but also Military Tradition and Democracy. I'm hoping to get both from someone, probably Churchill, later on. If not, they'll be cheap to research, the more civs have 'em.
Shortly after the golden age ended, I decided it was time to get on with things--specifically, war with Japan, before Tokugawa had too much time to recover:
As I feared, this dropped Ragnar from "Friendly" to "Pleased". Fortunately, the only negative result of this all round was that he canceled one of our resource trade deals:
It's too bad because the silk would have helped with war weariness, but I'll soon have that resource thanks to all the sources in Japanese territory.
A had two stacks on the move. One rumbled up to Shimonoseki (while a couple of flanking Grenadiers captured Japanese Workers--I've captured 4 so far):
The other stack closed in on Matsuyama, far to the south:
Both cities, as you can see, were lightly defended, but those CG/Drill Riflemen were not fun to deal with. They cost me most of my Trebuchets. However, some survived and earned City Raider III promotions, which grants a bonus versus gunpowder units. It turns out the upgrade from Trebuchet to Cannon is relatively cheap: only 80 gold, as opposed to the 200 to go from Catapult to Cannon. So I upgraded any and all CR III Trebs to Cannon. Those units were very helpful in later battles, even if not all of them survived, so I feel that it was money well-spent.
Meanwhile, the main focal point for Japanese counter-attack was around Satsuma.
Besides the above pillagers, there's a stack of Grenadiers in the foreground, accompanied by a single Trebuchet, that attempted to retake the city. I had upgraded the Longbowmen there to Riflemen, so the attack failed. It also, very conveniently, emptied Nares of most of its defenders.
Shimonoseki was first to fall:
Yes, I took it with a Combat I/Medic I Pikeman! The last defender was a much-weakened Knight, and I'm hoping to get an opportunity to give this intrepid fellow a March promotion.
I didn't gain much from the city, as you can see, and it was nearly swamped by Viking culture (which sounds like a contradiction in terms, but anyway). Nevertheless, it will serve as a bulwark and maybe even a red herring to keep Viking forces away from my core cities.
To the south, my ancient-era units continued earning XPs towards their promotion to more modern units:
Another interesting difference in this game. I didn't really fight a big medieval war, otherwise I'd have CRIII units coming out of my ears by now, as I usually do. Matsuyama, by the way, got razed. Nares and Satsuma would offer access to all those fur tiles, and the city didn't have a good food resource.
Around this time I finished researching Steam Power. Look where the only source of coal on my continent is located:
Good thing I'm conquering Japan! There is another nearby source--it's on that Island north of Bangalore, which now hosts two Viking cities.
That Japanese city near the coal, Sapporo, just had to go:
It was razed as well. I have a Settler standing by in Edrine, which I plan on settling right on top of the gold. That city can work the wheat tile--Edrine has plenty of food and doesn't need it--and as a result, it will be able to work the coal as well.
To the south, my stack captured Nares:
So now I have crabs! Yeah, I can't believe I'm saying that like it's a good thing either. Anyway, I also pillaged the horse pasture just north of the city. Toku has another one near Osaka, though, with a Grenadier sitting atop it. I'll have to do something about that, because his Knights are pillaging a fair bit, and it's annoying.
I also managed to complete both Oxford and Wall Street in Delhi. Once the latter was completed, the capital no longer needed Bureaucracy's hammer boost, so I made a slight civics adjustment:
Free Speech to help with all those border wars, until I have Tanks and Marines to finally solve the problem. Yes, I know I was only one turn away from Fascism, but thanks to building (in most cases whipping) Mausoleums in most of my cities, war weariness is not yet overwhelming me.
And near the end of the round, I finished a key military tech:
So most of my cities are busy building Organized's factories, some of my best protective units have been upgraded to Infantry, and the war with Japan continues.
A state of the world post will follow, along with a summary of key discussion points.
We're not at the end, not really even close, but I think it's in sight.
As the round began, you may remember, I was just starting my Taj Mahal-powered golden age. I had a free Great Scientist from Physics to burn, and a rather enticing tech trade deal available from Ragnar.
I micro-managed each city's citizens and tile assignments to get the most out of the golden age, emphasizing production and commerce tiles, even stagnating a couple of cities temporarily to get the most benefit. I built mostly universities and banks to reap their science and economic benefits, as well as to ensure that I could build Oxford and Wall Street. I also built theatres to help with the war weariness I anticipated; theatres especially magnify the effects of the culture slider, so they're good buildings to have around for late game warmongering. The Great Scientist popped for some research points towards Biology; I got another Great Scientist in Delhi two turns into the golden age; him I settled in the capital.
The one thing I did not do is trade Physics to Ragnar for Corporation and Military Tradition. I checked and saw that Physics is a direct prerequisite for Artillery and I didn't want to help out Ragnar in that regard. Also, for my path to Industrialism, it turns out I didn't need Military Tradition. I needed Corporation, but I decided to research it on my own, since it was only 3 turns--in fact, I managed to get it in 2 turns by maxing the research slider and running as many scientists as I could. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
As the golden age was 1 turn from ending, my new best friend Winnie had a very desirable tech on offer:
Again, it turns out I didn't need it for my chosen research goal, but it sure wouldn't hurt. It's interesting--it's been said that in Civ IV you don't have to research everything, that you can neglect entire branches of the tech tree, but this is the first time I've really tried it. I've bypassed Divine Right, as I often do, but also Military Tradition and Democracy. I'm hoping to get both from someone, probably Churchill, later on. If not, they'll be cheap to research, the more civs have 'em.
Shortly after the golden age ended, I decided it was time to get on with things--specifically, war with Japan, before Tokugawa had too much time to recover:
As I feared, this dropped Ragnar from "Friendly" to "Pleased". Fortunately, the only negative result of this all round was that he canceled one of our resource trade deals:
It's too bad because the silk would have helped with war weariness, but I'll soon have that resource thanks to all the sources in Japanese territory.
A had two stacks on the move. One rumbled up to Shimonoseki (while a couple of flanking Grenadiers captured Japanese Workers--I've captured 4 so far):
The other stack closed in on Matsuyama, far to the south:
Both cities, as you can see, were lightly defended, but those CG/Drill Riflemen were not fun to deal with. They cost me most of my Trebuchets. However, some survived and earned City Raider III promotions, which grants a bonus versus gunpowder units. It turns out the upgrade from Trebuchet to Cannon is relatively cheap: only 80 gold, as opposed to the 200 to go from Catapult to Cannon. So I upgraded any and all CR III Trebs to Cannon. Those units were very helpful in later battles, even if not all of them survived, so I feel that it was money well-spent.
Meanwhile, the main focal point for Japanese counter-attack was around Satsuma.
Besides the above pillagers, there's a stack of Grenadiers in the foreground, accompanied by a single Trebuchet, that attempted to retake the city. I had upgraded the Longbowmen there to Riflemen, so the attack failed. It also, very conveniently, emptied Nares of most of its defenders.
Shimonoseki was first to fall:
Yes, I took it with a Combat I/Medic I Pikeman! The last defender was a much-weakened Knight, and I'm hoping to get an opportunity to give this intrepid fellow a March promotion.
I didn't gain much from the city, as you can see, and it was nearly swamped by Viking culture (which sounds like a contradiction in terms, but anyway). Nevertheless, it will serve as a bulwark and maybe even a red herring to keep Viking forces away from my core cities.
To the south, my ancient-era units continued earning XPs towards their promotion to more modern units:
Another interesting difference in this game. I didn't really fight a big medieval war, otherwise I'd have CRIII units coming out of my ears by now, as I usually do. Matsuyama, by the way, got razed. Nares and Satsuma would offer access to all those fur tiles, and the city didn't have a good food resource.
Around this time I finished researching Steam Power. Look where the only source of coal on my continent is located:
Good thing I'm conquering Japan! There is another nearby source--it's on that Island north of Bangalore, which now hosts two Viking cities.
That Japanese city near the coal, Sapporo, just had to go:
It was razed as well. I have a Settler standing by in Edrine, which I plan on settling right on top of the gold. That city can work the wheat tile--Edrine has plenty of food and doesn't need it--and as a result, it will be able to work the coal as well.
To the south, my stack captured Nares:
So now I have crabs! Yeah, I can't believe I'm saying that like it's a good thing either. Anyway, I also pillaged the horse pasture just north of the city. Toku has another one near Osaka, though, with a Grenadier sitting atop it. I'll have to do something about that, because his Knights are pillaging a fair bit, and it's annoying.
I also managed to complete both Oxford and Wall Street in Delhi. Once the latter was completed, the capital no longer needed Bureaucracy's hammer boost, so I made a slight civics adjustment:
Free Speech to help with all those border wars, until I have Tanks and Marines to finally solve the problem. Yes, I know I was only one turn away from Fascism, but thanks to building (in most cases whipping) Mausoleums in most of my cities, war weariness is not yet overwhelming me.
And near the end of the round, I finished a key military tech:
So most of my cities are busy building Organized's factories, some of my best protective units have been upgraded to Infantry, and the war with Japan continues.
A state of the world post will follow, along with a summary of key discussion points.
LosBlack
The Man from Utopia
funny..Toku is annoying you with his pillage-play. i'm glad you took care of him now before he had other annoying options to throw your way.
looks like you're back on track to your classic warmonger ways.
the stacks are admittedly..um..not as impressive as other games. but then you still have a round or two, you can make it up to us. 
looks like you're back on track to your classic warmonger ways.
the stacks are admittedly..um..not as impressive as other games. but then you still have a round or two, you can make it up to us.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
The State of the World, 1730 AD
First off, LosBlack--yeah, the stacks may not look impressive, but they're getting the job done. I think there's an important lesson in there. I considered waiting longer and building up more units, possibly even waiting for Infantry since I was pretty close to Industrialism, but I decided to just go for it, and I think it was the correct decision. At the very least, I'm pretty sure the war has prevented Tokugawa from obtaining the techs for Cavalry or Cannons. I'm hoping to keep Ragnar from Artillery and Infantry in the war I'll soon have with him.
Now on to the summary.
Let's start off with a look at the map:
My stacks are poised outside of Nagoya and Kyoto and can likely capture those cities next turn at the latest.
My current civics:
The relations board:
Resources:
Related to that, current trade deals:
The overall tech screen:
And, probably the most significant screenshot in this selection, my techs compared to Ragnar:
Don't feel bad if your jaw just dropped. Apparently Ragnar thinks he's Gandhi. He's been focussed primarily on civilian techs (though he did nab Steel). He also has Biology, obviously, as another example. He got Democracy very early, and has copper, so I'm thinking he's building the Statue of Liberty. If so, he's likely to beat Churchill to it, since the English bulldog just got the tech three or four turns back and lacks copper. Ragnar may also be building the Kremlin, since he's first to Communism. But the significant thing is that he doesn't have Physics or Steam Power, so he's quite far from having Artillery or Infantry.
Nevertheless, it would be a mistake to underestimate him. He outranks me in power significantly:
Mostly, I think, because he's been upgrading his old units and I haven't. Well, not to the same extent, because I don't get the same discount as the AI.
Just to be thorough, here's the tech screen vis-a-vis Churchill:
The military advisor:
You might gather from this that I recently generated a Great General. I sent him to Bangalore to build a Military Academy. Now I also have the free GG from Fascism, so we'll have to discuss what to do with him.
Demographics:
Cities and Wonders:
Okay, so let's talk about the decision points, at least as I see them. Feel free to add your own.
And if there are any other recommendations you have, by all means pass them along!
First off, LosBlack--yeah, the stacks may not look impressive, but they're getting the job done. I think there's an important lesson in there. I considered waiting longer and building up more units, possibly even waiting for Infantry since I was pretty close to Industrialism, but I decided to just go for it, and I think it was the correct decision.
At the very least, I'm pretty sure the war has prevented Tokugawa from obtaining the techs for Cavalry or Cannons. I'm hoping to keep Ragnar from Artillery and Infantry in the war I'll soon have with him. Now on to the summary.
Let's start off with a look at the map:
My stacks are poised outside of Nagoya and Kyoto and can likely capture those cities next turn at the latest.
My current civics:
The relations board:
Resources:
Related to that, current trade deals:
The overall tech screen:
And, probably the most significant screenshot in this selection, my techs compared to Ragnar:
Don't feel bad if your jaw just dropped. Apparently Ragnar thinks he's Gandhi. He's been focussed primarily on civilian techs (though he did nab Steel). He also has Biology, obviously, as another example. He got Democracy very early, and has copper, so I'm thinking he's building the Statue of Liberty. If so, he's likely to beat Churchill to it, since the English bulldog just got the tech three or four turns back and lacks copper. Ragnar may also be building the Kremlin, since he's first to Communism. But the significant thing is that he doesn't have Physics or Steam Power, so he's quite far from having Artillery or Infantry.
Nevertheless, it would be a mistake to underestimate him. He outranks me in power significantly:
Mostly, I think, because he's been upgrading his old units and I haven't. Well, not to the same extent, because I don't get the same discount as the AI.
Just to be thorough, here's the tech screen vis-a-vis Churchill:
The military advisor:
You might gather from this that I recently generated a Great General. I sent him to Bangalore to build a Military Academy. Now I also have the free GG from Fascism, so we'll have to discuss what to do with him.
Demographics:
Cities and Wonders:
Okay, so let's talk about the decision points, at least as I see them. Feel free to add your own.
- The Great General: Okay, so what do I do with him? Remember that I don't have Military Tradition yet, so no West Point. Should I settle him in Bangalore for another 2 XPs? That would raise most units from 9 to 11 (and therefore Level 2 to Level 3) right out of the gate. Or maybe he'd be better settled in another good production city (Calcutta? Madras is about to be busy with the Pentagon) for 2 XPs there--or a Military Academy? Or should I wait and attach him to a tank, as discussed before--hoping to trade for MT and build West Point in the meantime? My next GG is a long way off, after all.
- Nagoya: I'm thinking of razing it, even though I'm pursuing a domination win. We've been talking about putting the Ironworks in Kyoto, and that means that we want that city working all of its tiles--which would choke Nagoya considerably, since it will have little left besides desert and plains. Still, I do have Biology. Anyone care to tell me what pop it could support without working any of Kyoto's tiles? And I'm #3 in population at this point, so maybe I should keep the city even if it's stuck at size 7 or so.
- Tokugawa: I definitely think I should capture Kyoto, Nagasaki, and Kagoshima, maybe Nagoya as mentioned. Then what? Should I vassalize him when he's down to just Izumo and Yokohama? Should I let him keep Nagasaki, or will its culture interfere with Kyoto? Or should I finish him off to accelerate the domination win? (IIRC only half a vassal's land and pop count towards that victory condition.) The thing is, I'll likely have Industrialism by the time Japan's eastern cities are mine, which means I'll want to switch targets pretty quickly.
- Ragnar: Once I get Industrialism, I think a huge military buildup will be required to have enough Tanks and Marines to hold him off--he's got enough units to swarm me, and at several vulnerable points. I was thinking of going to Police State at that point (even if the war with Japan is over) to accelerate unit production, build them up in the queues, and then switch to Vassalage/Theocracy to spew them out. As for a plan of attack, I thought of hitting his three northern cities first with three stacks, then absorb his counter-attack before heading south. The island to the north will be last--or should I vassalize Ragnar at that point as well, if he's willing, and maybe leave him the ice city of Lindor too? Or should I attack from a different direction? Does it matter much whether I vassalize Tokugawa or not? Do the AIs often attack an AI vassal, or do they focus on the human?
- Research: After Industrialism, then what? I was thinking of keeping on the military/domination track and getting Combustion (or maybe I should get it BEFORE Industrialism, so the oil wells are on-line for the tanks?). Then Railroad, and following that, Flight and Radio for Bombers, which would make Artillery a low priority. Oh, I also have a Great Scientist, spawned from Lahore, my GP farm (I built the National Epic there during the Golden Age). He'll pop to help with Electricity--I think that's the best use for him considering I'm researching it right now. Agreed?
And if there are any other recommendations you have, by all means pass them along!
flamingzaroc121
Emperor
not to nitpick, but you didnt put the Military advisor, you put the trade screen
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Nitpicking is always welcome.
It should be fixed now.Phrederick
Warlord
You can fend of superior numbers of units easily. Chop all forests/jungle within two moves of his border, and station tanks across your border with Barrage promotions for a couple, and drill for the rest. Hit any invading stacks with the tanks, then finish off the rest with infantry. Then, invade.
Well, do you plan on getting factories before you start building tanks? If so, industrialism then combustion. If you don't, then do it the other way around.
since you go for domination, just take all of toku's city. half his pop and land isn't as good as all his land and cities.
I'd tech to combustion very soon, for the oil, then flight and radio.
This gives you a lot of time to finish toku, doesn' it?
And if you go for domination, you don't care about ragnar's opinion on you.
So sue for peace with toku if you need, another war declaration isn't going to hurt you.
I'd tech to combustion very soon, for the oil, then flight and radio.
This gives you a lot of time to finish toku, doesn' it?
And if you go for domination, you don't care about ragnar's opinion on you.
So sue for peace with toku if you need, another war declaration isn't going to hurt you.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
the screenshots really helped me in one area. i didn't realize you could highlight one leader and see which techs are your line are the ones he doesn't have. that'll save me extra 'let's have a chat' clicks. thank you very much!
carl corey
Deity
KMadCandy, you can also right-click on one of the AI leaders in the Foreign Advisor screen and it will take you directly to talking to him.
Dr Elmer Jiggle
King
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 811
Agreed. Vassal agreements are not as useful during domination victories as they are with some of the other conditions. For domination, it can be useful to vassalize your last opponent in order to accelerate the end, but accepting capitulation from someone before that just prolongs things.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Tunguska said:
I'll see what I can do with that. Trading for GPT has changed since the patch. I cancelled a 12 GPT-for-cows deal with Churchill when he apparently had 2 additional GPT. I went to see him and his total available had dropped to 9 GPT! I made one deal for that and then later added the other you see listed when I saw he had another 3 GPT available. I've since gone back and renegotiated the first deal. When I'm able to cancel both, I'll see what I can do. I had a similar experience where Isabella had 1 GPT, I cancelled our deal, and she had 0 GPT when I went to see her. 3 or 4 turns later, she was back up to 10 GPT.
I don't know what's up with that--maybe the AI is more sophisticated and is only willing to pay so much for one resource now, rather than spending all their available GPT on one. It makes trade renegotiations trickier and riskier.
I checked the tech tree again and I'll need Railroads and Combustion (as well as Electricity and Industrialism) before I can build Tanks.
Oh well, as cabert said, it gives me plenty of time to finish off Toku. (BTW, Phrederick, Assembly Line is what green-lights factories, and I'm building those right now.) I'm thinking of using the Great Scientist to help with Electricity, but I'll switch research to Railroads since I'll soon have a source of coal and my Fast Workers are sitting around without much to do. It would be really good to have a railroad network in place by the time I take on Ragnar. The accelerated production would be handy as well--I'm still missing some infrastructure like Markets, Grocers, and Observatories in cities that could benefit from them. After Railroads, Combustion so I can access the oil (and for Destroyers!), then back to Elecricity and Industrialism. After that, as Cabert suggested, I'll be off to Flight and Radio for Bombers.
Wouldn't it be cool if Ragnar built both the Statue of Liberty and the Kremlin? Because then I could take them from him... heh heh heh...
carl corey
Deity
Yeap, the AI has definitely gotten weird about the gpt trades. I canceled a 16gpt trade when the AI listed 4gpt still available and after that it only got to 5gpt. Grrrr... My advice is to renegotiate small deals if possible but leave alone the big ones (>10gpt?), you risk losing quite a lot.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 13: to 1830 AD
The round started with the war on Japan still underway. I captured Nagoya:
I decided to keep it. I'm really going to need the population for a domination win. Thanks to Biology, it will support a good sized city once all those plains tiles are irrigated.
Sidebar--has everyone else noticed how the AI likes to put farms on grassland and cottages on plains? It's the opposite of what I and a lot of other players do. Does it make any sense? I guess you get a few more hammers that way, but it pretty much means you have to have one citizen working a farm in order for another one to work a cottage.
I also decided to use my most recent Great Scientist to help with Electricity...
And I settled the Great Generalissimo from Fascism in the capital:
My other cities were going to be preoccupied with civilian builds, some of them to deal with war weariness, so it was just the best candidate to immediately start producing units with 2 additional XPs. I got another Great Scientist out of Lahore several turns later and used him for an academy in Bombay, my 2nd best science city.
I also founded another city, on top of the gold in the east in order to claim that lonely coal tile:
Yep, I had a missionary there to ensure the city's borders popped ASAP.
A few turns later, the stack that took Nagoya joined up with the stack that took Nares. Together, they attacked the Japanese capital. Let's see what I got:
Nice! A lot of the infrastructure survived. The Hanging Gardens will help with health in my cities, and its GPP towards a Great Engineer may help this, my ironworks city, produce a Great Engineer--but we'll see. It's a little late in the game to be worried about that anyway.
A few turns later, I advanced to the southeast and captured Kagoshima, and with it, Versailles, which gave my GPT a big boost:
It was really just a matter of mopping up from this point on, and getting read for the big war with Ragnar.
That little town Alexander plunked down in the southern snow flipped, as I knew it would:
I disbanded it. It doesn't claim any useful resources and would claim tiles that Nares really needs. I got a free Infantry out of it, though. Poor Alexander isn't doing well; Isabella is kicking his butt, and Churchill doesn't think much of him.
My next Great Person was a Great Artists out of Madras. I sent him to Patak to see if I could pop its borders, but then I noticed that the GA would contribute research towards Radio, which we want for Bombers, so I used him for that.
As you can see, once I had coal, I put my Fast Workers on the job laying down track. I even built a couple more FWs to ensure I had plenty of rail lines, in anticipation of needing fast movement to deal with that long border I have with Ragnar. As usual, I put railroads on all the tiles that would get a production boost from that first; then I connected my cities with routes that went through these existing rail lines; finally, I laid additional track to make routes as efficient as possible, and focussed as well and laying track along the borders, where I anticipate needing it most.
The turn of the century came and went, and the number of years per turn went down. Several turns later, I finally hit my cherished research target:
I immediately started building Tanks of course. And exactly one turn later (such perfect timing, it's almost as if I planned it this way)...
At this point I made a slight civics change:
I didn't really need Police State to mitigate war weariness; I mainly want it for the increased military production. Even though Ragnar and Churchill were compounding the WW problem by running Emancipation, I had it under control--the Mausoleums are awesome, and Mount Rushmore (built in Bursa) helps too, along with the silk and fur I captured in Japanese Territory. Alexander also made peace with Isabella, so I had Incense back from him as well.
(I actually had a very strange turn where Churchill showed up and demanded that I stop trading with Greece, which I did; Winnie has several techs I want, so I'm keeping him happy. As soon as I was done with Churchill, Alexander showed up, offering me Incense, and I arranged for a GPT deal with him too. And I got no demerit from Churchill for doing this. But Alexander is now Cautious with me and won't talk since I stopped trading with him (sort of). Weird.)
Speaking of those nice juicy techs Churchill has, it took most of the round, he finally loosened up and started trading:
I was especially glad to get him back to Free Market, as it provided a substantial trade route and GPT boost. Does anyone know if a non-spiritual AI civ also goes into anarchy if it agrees to a civics change like this? That would be sweet if they do.
I finished another wonder, this one in the GP farm:
That should help with any war weariness from the upcoming conflict with Ragnar, and I expect to get another Great Artist out of Lahore at some point. I'll probably use him for a culture bomb to bring a captured Viking city out of revolt, unless he'll pop for another handy tech--I believe Mass Media is the next one GAs help with.
And I entered the modern era:
I started researching Radio--4 turns thanks to the GA--so we should have Bombers available early in the war with Ragnar.
Speaking of war, the conflict with Japan is over:
I have several units (mostly Tanks and Marines, along with some Infantry, Destroyers, and Fighters) in my build queues. I'm anticipating changing civics to Vassalage and Theocracy in a turn or two and letting all of them come out to play. The ground forces will have 9 XPs out of the gate--1 fight away from level 4.
A state of the world update will follow.
The round started with the war on Japan still underway. I captured Nagoya:
I decided to keep it. I'm really going to need the population for a domination win. Thanks to Biology, it will support a good sized city once all those plains tiles are irrigated.
Sidebar--has everyone else noticed how the AI likes to put farms on grassland and cottages on plains? It's the opposite of what I and a lot of other players do. Does it make any sense? I guess you get a few more hammers that way, but it pretty much means you have to have one citizen working a farm in order for another one to work a cottage.
I also decided to use my most recent Great Scientist to help with Electricity...
And I settled the Great Generalissimo from Fascism in the capital:
My other cities were going to be preoccupied with civilian builds, some of them to deal with war weariness, so it was just the best candidate to immediately start producing units with 2 additional XPs. I got another Great Scientist out of Lahore several turns later and used him for an academy in Bombay, my 2nd best science city.
I also founded another city, on top of the gold in the east in order to claim that lonely coal tile:
Yep, I had a missionary there to ensure the city's borders popped ASAP.
A few turns later, the stack that took Nagoya joined up with the stack that took Nares. Together, they attacked the Japanese capital. Let's see what I got:
Nice! A lot of the infrastructure survived. The Hanging Gardens will help with health in my cities, and its GPP towards a Great Engineer may help this, my ironworks city, produce a Great Engineer--but we'll see. It's a little late in the game to be worried about that anyway.
A few turns later, I advanced to the southeast and captured Kagoshima, and with it, Versailles, which gave my GPT a big boost:
It was really just a matter of mopping up from this point on, and getting read for the big war with Ragnar.
That little town Alexander plunked down in the southern snow flipped, as I knew it would:
I disbanded it. It doesn't claim any useful resources and would claim tiles that Nares really needs. I got a free Infantry out of it, though. Poor Alexander isn't doing well; Isabella is kicking his butt, and Churchill doesn't think much of him.
My next Great Person was a Great Artists out of Madras. I sent him to Patak to see if I could pop its borders, but then I noticed that the GA would contribute research towards Radio, which we want for Bombers, so I used him for that.
As you can see, once I had coal, I put my Fast Workers on the job laying down track. I even built a couple more FWs to ensure I had plenty of rail lines, in anticipation of needing fast movement to deal with that long border I have with Ragnar. As usual, I put railroads on all the tiles that would get a production boost from that first; then I connected my cities with routes that went through these existing rail lines; finally, I laid additional track to make routes as efficient as possible, and focussed as well and laying track along the borders, where I anticipate needing it most.
The turn of the century came and went, and the number of years per turn went down. Several turns later, I finally hit my cherished research target:
I immediately started building Tanks of course. And exactly one turn later (such perfect timing, it's almost as if I planned it this way)...
At this point I made a slight civics change:
I didn't really need Police State to mitigate war weariness; I mainly want it for the increased military production. Even though Ragnar and Churchill were compounding the WW problem by running Emancipation, I had it under control--the Mausoleums are awesome, and Mount Rushmore (built in Bursa) helps too, along with the silk and fur I captured in Japanese Territory. Alexander also made peace with Isabella, so I had Incense back from him as well.
(I actually had a very strange turn where Churchill showed up and demanded that I stop trading with Greece, which I did; Winnie has several techs I want, so I'm keeping him happy. As soon as I was done with Churchill, Alexander showed up, offering me Incense, and I arranged for a GPT deal with him too. And I got no demerit from Churchill for doing this. But Alexander is now Cautious with me and won't talk since I stopped trading with him (sort of). Weird.)
Speaking of those nice juicy techs Churchill has, it took most of the round, he finally loosened up and started trading:
I was especially glad to get him back to Free Market, as it provided a substantial trade route and GPT boost. Does anyone know if a non-spiritual AI civ also goes into anarchy if it agrees to a civics change like this? That would be sweet if they do.
I finished another wonder, this one in the GP farm:
That should help with any war weariness from the upcoming conflict with Ragnar, and I expect to get another Great Artist out of Lahore at some point. I'll probably use him for a culture bomb to bring a captured Viking city out of revolt, unless he'll pop for another handy tech--I believe Mass Media is the next one GAs help with.
And I entered the modern era:
I started researching Radio--4 turns thanks to the GA--so we should have Bombers available early in the war with Ragnar.
Speaking of war, the conflict with Japan is over:
I have several units (mostly Tanks and Marines, along with some Infantry, Destroyers, and Fighters) in my build queues. I'm anticipating changing civics to Vassalage and Theocracy in a turn or two and letting all of them come out to play. The ground forces will have 9 XPs out of the gate--1 fight away from level 4.
A state of the world update will follow.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
The State of the World, 1830 AD
Let's start with a look at the map:
Relations:
So Churchill will soon be my only friend in the whole wide world. Which is ironic, since he's my closest rival. But for the domination win, I don't think it will be necessary to go after him at all. Once Ragnar is done, I anticipate attacking either Alexander or Isabella--whichever one looks like a combination of the easiest target and best enemy diplomatically. That probably means Alexander. Then again, Isabella has sugar and spices, and since she's slightly more advanced and powerful, it might be good to take her on first in case I need to take territory and population from both of them.
Tech standings, first compared to Ragnar:
And vis-a-vis Churchill:
Notice that Churchill is ready to trade again. I checked, and this is the best deal I can make with him:
Whaddya think--should I go for it? I won't get much use out of Artillery, but it leads to other useful techs and it's nice not to have to research it myself. Democracy would give me the option of switching to Emancipation if war weariness gets bad.
Here are the current resource deals:
The military advisor:
So I anticipate earning my next Great General early in the war with Ragnar. Should I use him for a Military Academy in Delhi (to combine with the Military Instructor there), or since I'll have West Point in Bangalore, should I use him for that CR III/Barrage III monster suggested earlier? That sounds like fun...
Victory conditions:
Okay, so a long way to go, but I kind of got a late start on a domination victory in this game. Still, I think things look promising. Ragnar has a lot of population and land, so I think I'll be close once I start on the intercontinental invasion. Also, once my own continent is my own and peaceful and I have the hordes of units I need, I can probably let my cities grow. I also had to whip some unhappy citizens away during the war.
Power:
Thanks to spreading Buddhism, I can see Ragnar's units in all his cities. He has Artillery and Combustion now and Rocketry too, so he has some SAM Infantry. He could tech towards Assembly Line for Infantry or Flight next. The latter would be worrisome, because my invasion force is going to rely on Tanks. He has lots of Cavalry, and Flight + Rocketry + Oil = Choppers. However, he has only one source of oil, and it's practically on my border just west of Patak. I think that tile and the nearby city of Jelling should be my first objective in the war. I also think I'm going to have to move quickly before he finishes Flight (if that's what he's researching) and upgrades all of his Cavalry to tank-smashers. Fortunately, he doesn't have much gold available right now, but that could change.
Demographics:
Yay, I'm finally #1 in a lot of those categories!
Cities and Wonders:
Yes, Raggie finished both the Statue of Liberty and the Kremlin. I look forward to taking them from him.
So what should be our plan of attack--Jelling, then sit back and absorb his counter-attack? Just where is Ragnar most likely to strike, anyway? Most of his forces are in Nidaros, though his other cities are stocked up pretty good as well. Unlike many other games, the AI has several nearby points to attack this time, so it's hard to predict where it will go. I think it might make sense to stock my reinforcements in Cuman and Tokyo--from those two cities they can easily rush to any city under attack along the front.
Unless they all come under attack!
Stay tuned kids, it should be fun...
Let's start with a look at the map:
Relations:
So Churchill will soon be my only friend in the whole wide world. Which is ironic, since he's my closest rival. But for the domination win, I don't think it will be necessary to go after him at all. Once Ragnar is done, I anticipate attacking either Alexander or Isabella--whichever one looks like a combination of the easiest target and best enemy diplomatically. That probably means Alexander. Then again, Isabella has sugar and spices, and since she's slightly more advanced and powerful, it might be good to take her on first in case I need to take territory and population from both of them.
Tech standings, first compared to Ragnar:
And vis-a-vis Churchill:
Notice that Churchill is ready to trade again. I checked, and this is the best deal I can make with him:
Whaddya think--should I go for it? I won't get much use out of Artillery, but it leads to other useful techs and it's nice not to have to research it myself. Democracy would give me the option of switching to Emancipation if war weariness gets bad.
Here are the current resource deals:
The military advisor:
So I anticipate earning my next Great General early in the war with Ragnar. Should I use him for a Military Academy in Delhi (to combine with the Military Instructor there), or since I'll have West Point in Bangalore, should I use him for that CR III/Barrage III monster suggested earlier? That sounds like fun...
Victory conditions:
Okay, so a long way to go, but I kind of got a late start on a domination victory in this game. Still, I think things look promising. Ragnar has a lot of population and land, so I think I'll be close once I start on the intercontinental invasion. Also, once my own continent is my own and peaceful and I have the hordes of units I need, I can probably let my cities grow. I also had to whip some unhappy citizens away during the war.
Power:
Thanks to spreading Buddhism, I can see Ragnar's units in all his cities. He has Artillery and Combustion now and Rocketry too, so he has some SAM Infantry. He could tech towards Assembly Line for Infantry or Flight next. The latter would be worrisome, because my invasion force is going to rely on Tanks. He has lots of Cavalry, and Flight + Rocketry + Oil = Choppers. However, he has only one source of oil, and it's practically on my border just west of Patak. I think that tile and the nearby city of Jelling should be my first objective in the war. I also think I'm going to have to move quickly before he finishes Flight (if that's what he's researching) and upgrades all of his Cavalry to tank-smashers. Fortunately, he doesn't have much gold available right now, but that could change.
Demographics:
Yay, I'm finally #1 in a lot of those categories!
Cities and Wonders:
Yes, Raggie finished both the Statue of Liberty and the Kremlin. I look forward to taking them from him.
So what should be our plan of attack--Jelling, then sit back and absorb his counter-attack? Just where is Ragnar most likely to strike, anyway? Most of his forces are in Nidaros, though his other cities are stocked up pretty good as well. Unlike many other games, the AI has several nearby points to attack this time, so it's hard to predict where it will go. I think it might make sense to stock my reinforcements in Cuman and Tokyo--from those two cities they can easily rush to any city under attack along the front.
Unless they all come under attack!
Stay tuned kids, it should be fun...
Technocactus
Lurker
If you have to choose netween attacking Alex and Izzy, attack Izzy. She seems slightly more advanced and developed, and so is more likely to benefit if you attack Alex, than Alex is if you attack Izzy.
Lance of Llanwy
King
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2006
- Messages
- 710
I would make that trade with Winnie. I mean, you aren't going to war with him, so no problem in giving him a military tech. Artillery is a decent tech, and Democracy offers you Emancipation, as you pointed out, and it opens up some options on the tech tree. But Artillery is the real boon, as it helps out with Rocketry. I'm sure you have some horse units around(or elephants!) and Gunships are decent for a stack in their own right, and make superb pillagers.
Scratch the Industrialism if you think he'd trade it to Izzy and Alex though...but that would be taken care of nicely by gunships....
Scratch the Industrialism if you think he'd trade it to Izzy and Alex though...but that would be taken care of nicely by gunships....
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Good point. Yeah, I'm leaning towards Izzy. Mind you, we're thinking way ahead, as I still have to even declare war on Ragnar!
It would also mean that I'm closer to being on par with Ragnar in tech--he'll only have Divine Right (which is useless to me at this point), Communism, and Rocketry. I don't think I should pause for peace with him just to get those techs. It's getting late in the game, the war with him will take long enough as it is, and then I still have to launch an inter-continental invasion! I think I should research them on my own or pick them up from Churchill.
And isn't it cool that Kyoto has a Military Academy? Once the Ironworks is complete, that city will be able to pump out Bombers and Tanks like there's no tomorrow...
Dr Elmer Jiggle
King
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 811
That's why I've stopped asking the AI for trade embargoes. They're pointless. Not only is it possible to immediately reinstate trade, from what I've seen it usually happens in the case of AI to AI trade. I don't know if it's a bug or just an incredibly stupid design decision, but I'm not sure there's much of a difference.
You and Churchill have just over 58% of the landmass between you. That leaves 42% for the other 3 competitors. That's an average of 14% for each of them. If you conquer 2 more AI's, that means you should get about 28% which would put you at 65.5% total.
I would guess that Ragnar has a bit more than 14% (he's probably the current #3), and you might pick up a few percent from cultural expansion in the formerly Japanese lands, but you'll also have difficulties with cultural pressure on the other continent preventing you from taking over the full extent of the AI's lands, so that's probably about a wash.
Conclusion: It's going to be close, but you can probably get away with conquering just Ragnar and one of Alexander or Isabella. You'll win either way unless Ragnar pulls out a huge surprise, but it would be nice to avoid a pseudo conquest.
Another option to consider if it seems simpler is to attack and capitulate both Alexander and Isabella. You would need to go after both in that case, but you might end each war sooner and accomplish the overall victory more quickly. Edit: This might also help you out with overseas cultural problems.
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