"No thanks, we'd much rather win the game"

I've seen this as the explanation for a late-game tech being red-lined by the AI, refusing to trade it to me. It looks as though the AI (even tech-trade-happy ones like Mansa, Gandhi, and Cyrus) will not trade away any tech that directly enables the building of a space ship part.

That's my theory, any way. Is that true, and is it consistent across the board for all the AI leaders?

It wont trade direct Techs of Space Ship.

It is harder to get a tech from an AI player that you COULD use against the same AI player in the next turn.

This is set in
assets/xml/Technologies/CIV4TechInfos.xml
in the modifier/column
<AItrademodifier>
it is either "0" or "10".

It is "10" on...
feudalism
guilds
military tradition
ecology
electricity
fission
flight
composites
genetics
fiber optics
fusion
archery
horseback riding
machinery
gunpowder
rifling
steel
assembly line
railroad
artillery
industrialism
rocketry
satellites
robotics
...And 0 on all other techs.

You might remember the above technologies as those they just wont trade with you unless they really like you as their ally, or they just trade for twice the price if they are neutral but underdeveloped.
None of those techs is religious or cultural, most are military, essential for space race victory, or have a high "production flavour".

It is an annoying modifier but I guess they just added it to prevent POTENTIAL exploitation of the AI by beating it through tech-trading.

For the most part, that's what I've noticed as well. I think this was added to prevent the zero-research strategy in Civ3...I recall doing that on a number of occassions.

Antilogic said:

For the most part, that's what I've noticed as well. I think this was added to prevent the zero-research strategy in Civ3...I recall doing that on a number of occassions.

Click to expand...

What does this mean THe AI never went for the space race or wasn't good at it?

I lost once to AI that way. Actuall it was a pro-grade mod Anno domini that used the idea of trade race. Build ten merchant houses that each required you to have a resource specific resource in order to build it, EX: Silk merchant required silk etc. Wool spooner house needed a wool supply. THe cool thing about this was some of the resources needed to build a "space part"/merchant house were rare and only a few nations got their hands on em.


Say theres ony three quantitys of a resource needed to build one of the space parts and you got nether. This is where combat mixes in with completing the space race for the first time.
You can try n trade but if there not selling(only one copy) its go time!


Making a game where you truly had to fight to get the space race victory was much more enjoyable and the Ai is dam good a going out to get those resources. In fact they are drawn to them, so the competion was feirce. Imagine having to keep up in techs and keep up in milatary in case you had to go steal a rare resource from a giant Civ. Ok now remeber the cultural clock is ticking agaist you aswell neglect the right improvments and its a mission to destroy top culture CIv aswell

So you would get a some big ass Civ plowing through another Civ to get their rare resource once the smaller CIv is swallowed up if wasn't you doing the swallowing, your having to declare war with that giant in order to finish the space race.

Not so much the peacful solution to win the game is it? No its way more enjoyable talking from expierence playing both ways. Besides it beats what the Americans had to do to win the spacerace, that is hire some actors and a good studio

only the modders of CIv3 have figured out the best way to use this victory condition. I wish CIv4 could play out like that

Yeah, i was surprised the other day when I talked to Mansa (who was pleased with me) and he refused to trade anything at all because i was his worst enemy.

I had seen this with others when going for a space race victory but didnt think Mansa, Gandhi etc would do the same thing

T.A JONES said:

What does this mean THe AI never went for the space race or wasn't good at it?

I lost once to AI that way. Actuall it was a pro-grade mod Anno domini that used the idea of trade race...

Click to expand...

I was just wondering what does this mod got to do with civ3 zero-research strategy?

^^Its the resources needed to build the buildings( that manufacture the space part )thats important now! but you still need the tech to issue out the resources all over the land (discover the uses for the resource). Its The resources that are important to build the space parts in CIv3 ala mod.
If you read the link then got further details from the post youd see a this whole approach talked about in this forum is a weaker alternative.

Who really thinks you can blast of to some other planet by the end of this time line, Anno makes it real by bring all aspects to the 'Space race format' victory condition. Thats all Im saying. Sorry if it didn't apply but its true

i got this response from the ai the other day. it was rocketry that was redded out. however, he would still trade me other space ship part techs. so it seemed to be denying me access to apollo program was why he felt he would rather win the game.

T.A JONES said:

What does this mean THe AI never went for the space race or wasn't good at it?

I lost once to AI that way. Actuall it was a pro-grade mod Anno domini that used the idea of trade race. Build ten merchant houses that each required you to have a resource specific resource in order to build it, EX: Silk merchant required silk etc. Wool spooner house needed a wool supply. THe cool thing about this was some of the resources needed to build a "space part"/merchant house were rare and only a few nations got their hands on em.

Click to expand...

I never said anything about the space race. Not only does the AI not trade space race technologies, but when they are the first to a brand new technology, they tend to keep it under wraps for a few turns to preserve a technological advantage. In Civ3, you could set your research to zero starting in the Middle Ages, I think, and then simply trade cash for tech for the rest of the game. If you were a good broker and salesman, you could make a hefty profit off technology without researching so much as a beaker.

Anno Domini was a top-rate mod. I'd say that comes close to the pinnacle of Civ3 modding capacity...I'm waiting for the next super-mod to come out for Civ4 in hopes it provides as much entertainment as that one did.

I would have played it more if it wasn't for the release of Civ4 so close to when Anno came out...

Antilogic said:

Anno Domini was a top-rate mod. I'd say that comes close to the pinnacle of Civ3 modding capacity...I'm waiting for the next super-mod to come out for Civ4 in hopes it provides as much entertainment as that one did.

I would have played it more if it wasn't for the release of Civ4 so close to when Anno came out...

Click to expand...

HEy we both gots the goods to look forward to.! Anno Domini is coming out with a SUPER MOD SEQUALl this month Im not sure how its going to improve but a another coat of gloss is a small gaurentee (new music leaderheades,so on...)

Cool man sorry I tripped on this thread (got it wrong) but I liked the way of having to secure the resources to build the space parts.I was trying to explain a radically new idea of space race to CIv4 fans. Glad you liked it (anno)but BALANCER RELOADED is pinnicle perfection as well, Its a shame you never had a crack at that conquest gem Youd be a changed man


It was way easier to lose the space race cus the AI was programed to grab resources it needed to finish a part at any cost. In othewords it mobilized for war. If you play big maps like me nothing is more intense then having a 60 citys civ on your ass when your trying to keep things in check (build the spice road.



there was two or three rare resources out of like 8 or ten needed to build all the space parts( plus a few more that wern't needed or culturally unique)

ANYWAY HERES THE BIG THING this method took advatage of for late game pandemonium. If you are familair with Conquest the best way to make a civs whole army move to a speific direction is a strategic resource they need. SO a giant civ would gobble up a civholding that wild card resource making you have to take him out and watch your cultural back at the same time (anno had lots of culture buildings the AI loved to build everywhere)

Sorry for the old days of my bickering. I hope you enjoy the new version and I will be trying my luck with Total Realism now that I got Warlords for Christmas(along with another matching 512 mem card to replace my 256 making a boost from 700 something, to 1000 at last!! now to ditch the 256 g-card for the 512!!

Antilogic said:

In Civ3, you could set your research to zero starting in the Middle Ages, I think, and then simply trade cash for tech for the rest of the game. If you were a good broker and salesman, you could make a hefty profit off technology without researching so much as a beaker.

Click to expand...

And you could win the space race on top of it, if you had cities with sufficiently high shield output to outbuild the AIs.

The Last Conformist said:

And you could win the space race on top of it, if you had cities with sufficiently high shield output to outbuild the AIs.

Click to expand...

Cool the Last Conformist! If you feel like adding to that tally, Id be intrested in your thoughts on a Anno type space race in CIv4? What do you think about having strategic resources(some more much more rare then others)tie into securing space parts for the space race victory condition?

I believe a little bit of trading with the possibiltiey of unenivatable warring depending where how the cards are delt out, should be involved in the space race.

I like the idea of resource specific buildings that are needed to be erected inorder to construct the space parts. This ontop as needing to accure the knowledge to processs the resouces your refining into parts in those buildings.

The good part of this system is some resources are dished out late in the game when countries are already esablised and depending where they land can cause lots of intresting conflicts

T.A JONES said:

...Sorry for the old days of my bickering. I hope you enjoy the new version and I will be trying my luck with Total Realism now that I got Warlords for Christmas(along with another matching 512 mem card to replace my 256 making a boost from 700 something, to 1000 at last!! now to ditch the 256 g-card for the 512!!

Click to expand...

No hard feelings--I think you made yourself look a little like a clown as well. It's all in good fun. Your recommendation for Balancer Reloaded has caused me to consider dusting off the Conquests CD when I have the free time.

My first real win on Emperor back in Civ3 was with Mongolia on the zero-research strategy. I found the game to be so easy I wondered why I bothered with the notion of researching my own technology in the first place.


Back to the sort-of topic of this thread, I have a personal distaste of the space race. I would rather see something more along the lines of a Mars colony, with required resources for even starting the colony. That, however, more than likely will not happen in the incarnations of Civ--Sid Meier seems captivated by the Alpha Centauri idea.

Generally, none of them will ever trade rocketry, even for a more expensive tech.

Antilogic said:

No hard feelings--I think you made yourself look a little like a clown as well. It's all in good fun. Your recommendation for Balancer Reloaded has caused me to consider dusting off the Conquests CD when I have the free time.

Click to expand...

Was that one last shot Atilogic? shame! besides bicker means to argue, the clown thing well, thats just one mans opinion. I though I refuted your SciFI argument soundly) A parting jab I guess(friendly gesture)
Funny back then We argued about the best modern age and I gave CIv3 Balancer Reloaded as perfect layout

Now were back on topic with the space race "super sci fi" as some would call it and again another mod from CIv3 proves to have a better soloution of implimentation

If only Anno Domini and Balancer's ideas were combined for Civ4!
OH, I forgot, making resource specific buidings to manucture seprate space parts can't be done in CIv4, so this better way IMO, can never be realized can it?

Hey man, that wasn't a last shot. We both looked like clowns (that's what the "as well" meant). No hard feelings, but I think that is more than opinion.

I'm still against the "super scifi" (I'm assuming you referred to me) for the base game, but since they already threw in an Alpha Centauri spaceship, I guess people are going to argue that it's fair game since they have done it already. Fine, I guess I can't convince everyone that a Mars Colony would be a little more in-touch with our near future. Not that we have landed there or anything.

Oh ok fine then We should be happy I guess, we have mods that appeal to our diverse tastes. Im with you that we need to change up the space race victory to something more suitable. The Anno approach works great but its about monopolizing a ancient trading passage (silkRoad) not a spaceship

The Balancer at least legitamizes the space race by letting you research the REAL supporting tech for inter planatary travel and gives you a taste of what combat might feel like during that stage at the same time, but has other flaws like not havin Anno domini's better space race system implimented along with it

Both mods are polished like crazy so they feel like store bought games...

I wonder how combining these two mods principles would work for building a better space ship race in Civ4. Its ok to copy or learn from Mods made on the Civ3 platform for better understanding of what works well, so building a better Civ4 expansion becomes all the more possible.

Agreed. I'd almost like to see Firaxis take their shot at revamping it first, and then letting the modders take another round at it. That's how the best games are made...