Questions, CE, FE, SE?

OK, stupid questions coming up... what is CE, FE and CE I looked on the Academy on CFC acronyms page but they're not there?

cottage economy, farm economy and specialist economy, respectively.

how can farms produce economy? I assume that SE is using specialists to increse gpt and science? CE is cottagespam right?

I'm not gonna step into that minefield of explaining why FE is different from SE. I'll leave that to far more qualified people than I. However, you are correct in your assesment of SE and CE.

Thankyou for your explanations! Anybody have advice on FE vs SE?

i think they are basically the same thing.

Technically SE is FE. The distinction arised when people in favor of CE started pointing out that SE's bigger production of Great People can be nearly be duplicated with a dedicated GP farm with national epic and pacifism . In se the research of small necessary techs are done by direct research whereas costly techs are gotten by lightbulbing some valuable tech and trading them for other techs.
FE is farm economy where you have alots of farms and you use slavery to whip units and buildings and nationhood to draft units and grow back fast with farms. FE is flexible if you want research you can use caste system and run lots of scientists, when you want military you can retire your specialists to mines etc and use whip , draft etc to produce the latest army very quickly. In FE as you can see most of the research will come from specialists . There is another farm of fe which is based on big cities and trade routes which gets hit in the mercantilism period.
SE is strong in early game because of the strong military production earlier compared to CE however CE becomes powerful post Universal suffranage with rush-buying and bigger research when light bulbing becomes weak . Good traits for se are spiritual/Philosophical/creative/aggresive

SE is in a way incorrect and misleading name. FE was invented to remove this problem.
SE – Specialists economy assume that is getting it research from specialists. But one needs to have excess of food in order to run specialists. So, where is food come form? It could come from special resources or farms. Only special resources often are not enough to run to many of specialists and there come other use of high food excess – whipping for shields or drafting. So, there where FE term come to play.
FE mean economy based on farms, which could be used for production or to run specialist. If it used to run specialists = SE, but there were no explanation or idea that strongest part of SE come in fact that you can whip all your specialists for shields and because you have high food excess you can re grow your population in no time.
So, yours truly invent term FE to highlight the fact that economy besed on high food excess from farm, not just from idea of running specialists.

Just one question regarding this. Some people talk about some whipping rules that you have to wait 10 turns between 2 of them, and that it is not the same if you whip 1,2 or 3 population points. Can you explain this? Or should I start a new thread?

Tofe

tofe99 said:

Just one question regarding this. Some people talk about some whipping rules that you have to wait 10 turns between 2 of them, and that it is not the same if you whip 1,2 or 3 population points. Can you explain this? Or should I start a new thread?

Tofe

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Check the Civ Academy as it's much more useful - but to sum up (excluding exploits)

You whip to complete a build and this will use pop to produce 30 hammers (per pop) at a cost of 1 happiness for ten turns. The 30 hammers is reduced if the build is just started.
This is amended by normal modifiers (e.g. forge +25&#37.
As a granary increase pop growth it effectively reduces the food cost of whipping by 50% so it's best to whip the granary first (then the forge if available).
If you whip while there is still unhappiness from an existing whip (say 5 turns left) then the extra unhappiness from the next whips will last this long PLUS 10 turns (15 in this case).

General Guidelines.

- Use the whip every ten turns if micromanaging (maximises use but prevents unhappiness overlap)
- Ignore this when a captured city comes out of revolt. If the pop is starving due to unhappiness you might as well put it to some use and you want happiness buildings, granarys and forges
- Whip when a build is in its early stages (It's one unhappiness however many pop removed).
- If using the whip for pop managemnet (keeping the city happy) then either build a happiness building and/or whip 2-4 pop. A 1pop whip is happiness neutral (excluding war weariness and other modifiers).

Thanks, it is much more clear for me now...

So... FE is using farms to train specialists. In times of war, you draft/whip the specialists assuming that you can regrow them quickly. Which would be better? CE or F/SE? (as a general strategy on Noble/Prnce?)

Nick53 said:

Which would be better? CE or F/SE? (as a general strategy on Noble/Prnce?)

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I think it's a tribute to Firaxis that they balanced the game well enough that we can still fight about this. Try them both and see what you like.

peace,
lilnev

CE is far superior for a new player.

And CE is still better for an advanced player.

I tend toward CE myself, despite having occasional fun trying to get my head around running an empire based on FE. Still, I can't fathom the sort of absolutism of comments like that, which are really just projections of one's own playing ability and style upon the gamers at large. Civ for neocons.

DaveMcW said:

And CE is still better for an advanced player.

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Then why so many advanced players disagree?

I am yet to see a decisive proof that either economy is better.

There have been several partial disproofs of SE/FE.

Zero disproofs of CE.

DaveMcW said:

There have been several partial disproofs of SE/FE.

Zero disproofs of CE.

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Disproofs like?

CE vs SE space race: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=196783

All the strongest SE supporters gave up before ever launching a spaceship. The best CE beat the best SE by 120 years

I just read all 189 messages in the referenced thread. There's no disproof of SE/FE/LE/GE there. The only proof in that thread is that you were able to beat two or three SE players at a space race on Monarch.

Can you point to others of the "several partial disproofs of SE/FE"? The one you already linked was an educational thread; glad to read more. Also, you mention that CE is best for advanced players. In your mind, at what level does a player become advanced?