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Old Apr 12, 2007, 09:43 PM   #1
Sisiutil
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The All Leaders Challenge Game Bullpen

The idea of this thread came about as a place to provide links to the previous ALC game threads, and that's what you'll find in this first post. My board signature was becoming rather cluttered with them, so it's easier to just move them to a thread of their own. And this way I get to include a little extra reference information for the train-spotters out there.

However, that's not much of a discussion thread, is it? So besides offering links to the old ALC games, I thought this thread could also be a place to discuss the ALC series in general--a place to discuss things that are not directly related to the game currently in progress and would therefore be off-topic. Things like--Should the games move up to the next difficulty level? Which leader should be next? Should the games start using the Better AI mod? How come Sisiutil is so intelligent, witty and erudite, and how can I be more like him?

Ahem.

And so forth. Anything related to the ALCs goes!

But first, without further ado, here are the links to the previous games. If anyone wants the saved game files from these games, just PM me with your e-mail address.

Game 1: Aztec/Montezuma (Prince Level; Domination Victory; Score: 15232)
Game 2: China/Mao Zedong (Prince Level; Space Victory; Score: 14668)
Game 3: China/Qin Shi Huang (Prince Level; Space Victory; Score: 21247)
Game 4: Egypt/Hatshepsut (Prince Level; Domination Victory; Score: 44777)
Game 5: England/Victoria (Prince Level; Cultural Victory; Score: 24409) Feature: Late-game cultural win
Game 6: France/Louis XIV (Prince Level; Domination Victory; Score: 21695)
Game 7: Germany/Frederick the Great (Prince Level; Domination Victory; Score: 35418) Features: Pyramids gambit, Specialist Economy
Game 8: Greece/Alexander the Great (Prince Level; Conquest Victory; Score: 21194) Feature: Hybrid Economy
Game 9: Inca/Huayna Capac (Monarch Level; Diplomatic Victory; Score: 37721) Features: First Monarch Level ALC, Isolated Start
Game 10: India/Asoka (Monarch Level, Warlords; Space Victory; Score: 37790) Feature: First Warlords ALC
Game 11: Carthage/Hannibal (Monarch Level, Warlords; Space Victory; Score: 22718) Feature: Internet Project
Game 12: Japan/Tokugawa (Monarch Level, Warlords; Domination Victory; Score: 75824)
Game 13: Mali/Mansa Musa (Monarch Level, Warlords; Space Victory; Score: 37247)
Game 14: Mongolia/Kublai Khan (Monarch Level, Warlords; Domination Victory; Score: 91103) Feature: Great Merchant Economy
Game 15: Ottoman/Mehmed II (Monarch Level, Warlords; Loss; Score: 2657) Feature: Isolated Start
Game 16: Persia/Cyrus (Monarch Level, Warlords; Domination Victory; Score: 76759)
Game 17: Russia/Peter (Monarch Level, Warlords; Loss)
Game 17, Take 2: Russia/Peter (Monarch Level, Beyond the Sword; Space Victory; Score: 38754) First Beyond the Sword ALC
Game 18: Spain/Isabella (Monarch Level, Beyond the Sword; Diplomatic Victory; Score: 66550) Feature: Apostolic Palace early religious diplomatic victory
Game 18, Take 2: Spain/Isabella (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword; Domination Victory; Score: 48052) Feature: First Emperor Level ALC
Game 19: Sumer/Gilgamesh (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword; Space Victory; Score: 39919)
Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword; Domination Victory; Score: 102108) Feature: Early Astronomy Gambit
Game 21: Zulus/Shaka (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword); Domination Victory; Score: 123429) Features: Aggressive AI, No Tech Brokering, No Goody Huts
Game 22: Arabs/Saladin (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword); Loss
Game 22, Take 2: Arabs/Saladin (Emperor Level, Beyond the Sword; Domination Victory; Score: 108819)
Game 23: America/Lincoln (Immortal Level, Beyond the Sword; Space Race Victory; Score: 50980) Feature: First Immortal Level ALC
Game 24: Babylon/Hammurabi (Immortal Level, Beyond the Sword; Domination Victory; Score: 135666)
Game 25: Celts/Boudica (Abandoned)
Game 25: Celts/Boudica, Take 2 (Also Abandoned)

The ALCs: The Next Generation

Game 26: Dutch/Willem van Oranje, Played by Lord Parkin
Game 27: England/Churchill, Played by DMOC
Game 28: Ethiopia/Zara Yaqob, Played by Benginal
Game 29: France/De Gaulle, Played by Benginal
Game 30: Germany/Bismarck, Played by Benginal
Game 31: Greek/Pericles, Played by Benginal
Game 32: HRE/Charlemagne, Played by Benginal
Game 32: Korea/Wang Kon, Played by Benginal



Quote:
UPDATE: MAY 22nd, 2009

Sadly, after many years of doing this, I find I can no longer muster the gumption to play and post the ALCs. I've simply run into the law of diminishing returns. I started these threads to improve my own game, which they obviously did, since I started on Prince and worked my way up to Immortal (and, off-line, I'm going to attempt deity soon). But I find I simply wasn't getting much out of the threads anymore (even though I know many of you were, which is why I kept them going). These sorts of threads require their fair share of time, dedication, and effort, and I have a limited supply of those (my altruistic streak also has its limits, sadly). Many of you have noted how the delay between posts was becoming longer and longer in the last few games; now you know why.

I may not have accomplished all I originally set out to do in the ALCs (play a game as every leader and reach Deity level), but I've had a good run. In fact, if I count the "take 2s" as separate games--which they were--I played and posted 26 ALC matches. That's exactly the number that would have been required to play a game with each leader in the original Civ IV release, a.k.a. "vanilla". I know, it's not quite "mission accomplished", but like any opportunistic leader, I'm more than happy to peremptorily hang that on a banner behind me, give a rousing farewell speech to the troops, and head home to hang out on my ranch. If only I had a ranch...

At any rate, I'm quite proud of the games, and the threads live on as my legacy. I hope they will prove as enlightening to future generations as they have to...



(Okay, I'm getting pretty pretentious, aren't I?)

Anyway. I had to pull down some of the old saved game files to make room for new ones. This has prompted several of you to ask me to e-mail you the missing games, which I will continue to do. But to make things a little easier, since I no longer need the file space, I've posted the starts of all the ALCs here in this post. Sadly, I lost the first six starts and no one else seems to have them either, but all the others are in the ZIP file that's attached, along with the earliest saves from the early games.

If you check the most recent posts in the thread as of today's date, several other players have indicated an interest in carrying on the ALCs. I will include links to those threads above. The torch has been passed, and...

Whoops, there goes my pretention alert again.
Attached Files
File Type: zip ALC Game Start Archive.zip (1.23 MB, 494 views)
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Last edited by Sisiutil; Jun 25, 2011 at 11:54 AM.
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Old Apr 12, 2007, 09:55 PM   #2
Sisiutil
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On a related note, here is a list of anticipated future ALC games, in order. Since I've now retired and others are playing the games, I will allow those brave volunteers to decide whether to follow this schedule or not.

Game 34: Khmer/Suryavarman
Game 35: India/Mahatma Gandhi
Game 36: Mongolia/Genghis Khan
Game 37: Native American/ Sitting Bull
Game 38: Ottomans/ Suleiman
Game 39: Portugal/D. Joao II
Game 40: Rome/Augustus Caesar
Game 41: Russia/Stalin
Game 42: America/Roosevelt
Game 43: Byzantine/ Justinian I
Game 44: Celts/Brennus
Game 45: Egypt/Ramesses
Game 46: England/Elizabeth
Game 47: French/Napoleon
Game 48: Maya/Pacal II
Game 49: Persia/Darius
Game 50: Rome/Julius Caesar
Game 51: Russia/Catherine
Game 52: America/George Washington
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Last edited by Sisiutil; Jun 25, 2011 at 11:54 AM.
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Old Apr 12, 2007, 10:01 PM   #3
gallego
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Are we ever going to see a game with aggressive AI and raging barbarians? The gameplay just seems more realistic and hectic with those options, and I feel like overly calculated, super efficient starts are a little bit of a misinterpretation of the game; a tribe of settlers should first be worried about protection, not getting out a warrior, worker, etc. on the exact right turn in order to build the Oracle at the exact right moment a thousand years later, etc. The need for protection first is more true to the concept of the game, I think.

Last edited by gallego; Apr 12, 2007 at 11:30 PM.
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Old Apr 12, 2007, 10:06 PM   #4
scy12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisiutil View Post
On a related note, here is the list of anticipated future ALC games, in order. However, this list doesn't include all those new leaders in the Beyond the Sword expansion pack--so when that comes out, it will mess this up. And of course I reserve the right to change the order on a whim. 'Cause I'm just crazy like that.

How many of you think I'll get through every single leader before Civilization V comes out? Yeah, that's what I thought...

Game 16: Russia/Catherine
Game 17: Russia/Peter
Game 18: Spain/Isabella
Game 19: Viking/Ragnar
Game 20: Zulu/Shaka
Game 21: America/Roosevelt
Game 22: Arab/Saladin
Game 23: Celts/Brennus
Game 24: England/Churchill
Game 25: France/Napoleon
Game 26: Germany/Bismarck
Game 27: Korea/Wang Kon
Game 28: India/Mahatma Gandhi
Game 29: Mongolia/Genghis Khan
Game 30: Rome/Augustus Caesar
Game 31: Russia/Stalin
Game 32: America/George Washington
Game 33: Egypt/Ramesses
Game 34: England/Elizabeth
Game 35: Rome/Julius Caesar
Game 36: Persia/Cyrus
Enough with the Warmongers. How can you select Catherine as last , how ?
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Old Apr 12, 2007, 10:07 PM   #5
marowaker
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Good luck trying 36 games before CivV comes out. I don't see how you are going to do it though seeing as you are only up to ALC 15 and the 2nd expansion pack of the game is about to be released. If you want to try and play all of them, speeding up could be an option?

Anyway,
Quote:
How come Sisiutil is so intelligent, witty and erudite, and how can I be more like him?
I have no idea Maybe start my own ALC series
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Old Apr 12, 2007, 10:18 PM   #6
Steppin' Razor
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Just a quick word of thanks, this series has been a great help.
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Old Apr 12, 2007, 10:26 PM   #7
Sisiutil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego View Post
Are we ever going to see a game with aggressive AI and raging barbarians? The gameplay just seems more realistic and hectic with those options, and I feel like overly calculated, super efficient starts are a little bit of an misinterpretation of the game; a tribe of settlers should first be worried about protection, not getting out a warrior, worker, etc. on the exact right turn in order to build the Oracle at the exact right moment a thousand years later, etc. The need for protection first is more true to the concept of the game, I think.
Interesting suggestion! In many ways, I think I like this idea better than moving up to the next difficulty level. Lately people have been dissuading me from moving up to Emperor as it usually entails more restrictive, tried-and-true strategies rather than allowing for some of the wild-a** gambits I've tried in a few of these games. Altering the game settings might be a good alternative to Emperor level.
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Originally Posted by scy12 View Post
Enough with the Warmongers. How can you select Catherine as last , how ?
Well, Cathy is one of the most popular of the Civ leaders (as your post helps to show), and I wanted to focus the ALC series on leaders (a) who are less popular and (b) that I myself have not used. This is also why my own personal favourite leaders (Ramesses, Elizabeth, and both Caesars) are down near the bottom of the list.

However, I'll consider your request. I myself don't play as Catherine very often anymore, not since Warlords changed her from Financial to Imperialistic . What about everybody else?
Quote:
Originally Posted by marowaker View Post
Good luck trying 36 games before CivV comes out. I don't see how you are going to do it though seeing as you are only up to ALC 15 and the 2nd expansion pack of the game is about to be released. If you want to try and play all of them, speeding up could be an option?
I'm paddling as fast as I can!

Believe me, I know I might not ever get there. (Another reason I've left my personal favourite leaders, as whom I play most of my off-line games, to the end of the list; no big if they're not featured in an ALC.) But with a provisional schedule in place, you folks can do your best to persuade me that a certain leader is more deserving of an ALC game and should move up. Someone PM'd me recently, for example, requesting that I play as Brennus in the next game.

I'm not opposed to playing as certain leaders out of order--Hannibal, for example. It's a game, it's about fun, so whoever looks like they might be the most fun to try next--wins! And hopefully I will too.
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Old Apr 12, 2007, 10:56 PM   #8
axident
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallego View Post
Are we ever going to see a game with aggressive AI and raging barbarians? The gameplay just seems more realistic and hectic with those options, and I feel like overly calculated, super efficient starts are a little bit of an misinterpretation of the game; a tribe of settlers should first be worried about protection, not getting out a warrior, worker, etc. on the exact right turn in order to build the Oracle at the exact right moment a thousand years later, etc. The need for protection first is more true to the concept of the game, I think.
There are emperor and immortal challenge threads that put more early barb pressure on the human player, if that's your thing. I wouldn't mind the ALC sticking to Monarch, but yeah a little raging barbs or a Quick or Normal game here or there, or whatever, would keep things fresh. Emperor+ also lessens the likelihood of seeing more things like the Great Merchant Economy, too, which isn't necessarily a good thing.
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Old Apr 12, 2007, 11:44 PM   #9
vormuir
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I like the idea of changing the settings instead of advancing to Emperor.

One thing we haven't seen: different map types (beyond Continents and Fractal, that is). How about some games on Small or Large maps, or on Highlands, or in an Ice Age? Nobody seems to use those variants much, so it might be interesting to see.


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Old Apr 12, 2007, 11:50 PM   #10
Sjaramei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisiutil View Post
Things like--Should the games move up to the next difficulty level?

Game 19: Viking/Ragnar
Game 20: Zulu/Shaka
Do it when you hit these leaders
And if people are worried about gambits like GME and other wierd things, you could try to do the warmongering leaders at emperor level since that will give you more of a challenge in war. (last game went a little bit too fast ) Keep monarch for peaceful wierd stuff

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Old Apr 13, 2007, 12:38 AM   #11
martin031
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What are your experiences with Better AI. I have been using it, but the AI seems to docile, even though they mix their stacks better and seem smarter. (And this is with agg option checked)

I wouldn't mind seeing you start with checking Agressive AI first.
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Old Apr 13, 2007, 12:50 AM   #12
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I agree, you should prioritize unpopular leaders. I've read every single ALC so far and I've learned a lot, but I still can't win before 1900AD (I need to get 1750 before I move to from Noble to Prince). Don't forget about your noob readers. Even though the experts help you win your games, the noobs benefit the most from them. I've improved a lot because of the ALCs. Catherine is a good choice for a couple reasons: both her traits and her UU have been nerfed. It will be good to see how cope with that. You might also have a hard time with unhealthiness in your capital city. Catherine has a way of getting around.
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Old Apr 13, 2007, 12:50 AM   #13
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I would be interested in seeing an ALC on a HUGE map. Just to see more details on war strategy in the late game.

Currently late game tends to be finishing of space race/diplomatic victory and the military plays little or no role.
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Old Apr 13, 2007, 12:56 AM   #14
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I would like to see a move to emproer sometime soon since you clearly is easily mastering monarch now. It will still be educational as there is still plenty of room to play around if your good enough(as you seem to be).
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Old Apr 13, 2007, 02:53 AM   #15
EEE_BOY
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i think the warlord expansion offers an option to prevent single player from editing the map and random seeds on reload. this is done by ticking those two options in the custom window. i usually did frequent reload when playing civ so these two options help me to play 'honestly'. i didn't mean that those ALC's or EMC's maps are edited, but ticking those two options before start convince people who read the thread that the game is played in a normal way. anyway, those threads are so great that i keep reading again and again.
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Old Apr 13, 2007, 03:41 AM   #16
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no mods please.

that would means mac players cannot read your saves, if the mod is not ported (which afaik is the case of better AI).

for increased challenge, large maps, aggressive AI would be my choice.

You can also pick up the worst opponents, like all financials when you are not, or starting with assured monty, alexander, louis, etc...


Oh, and yes, i use a mac (or rather severals )
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Old Apr 13, 2007, 05:02 AM   #17
aelf
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This is a great idea. Mind if I use it too? I hate complicated sigs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EEE_BOY View Post
i didn't mean that those ALC's or EMC's maps are edited, but ticking those two options before start convince people who read the thread that the game is played in a normal way. anyway, those threads are so great that i keep reading again and again.
I believe you could open the saves anytime and check the game settings. I think both the ALCs and the EMCs/Immortal Challenges do not have the random seed option (with which each battle would give a different outcome when reloaded) checked as it is. I haven't heard of any game option that prevents editing of the map. Anyway, I think doing so takes away the fun and the suspense.
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Old Apr 13, 2007, 08:22 AM   #18
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Sisiutil, do you have any idea where to put the (sort off) confirmed civs of BTS x-pack? I'm saying that because my gut feeling says the Portuguese leader will be a difficult one to handle ( based on the civ III ... no trait sinergy, a less than useful UU ... in warlord terms, a Brennus with Expansive/ Creative). Maybe Prince Henry ( I would prefer the King Jonh II ( a guy that putted Isabella of Spain in a diplomatic negotiation (resulting in sharing the world) deserves to be on Civ4 ) , but outside Portugal most people don't know him) can be a top priority.
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Old Apr 13, 2007, 09:59 AM   #19
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I'm really looking forward to seeing you play Shaka, get an early GG and make a Medic 3 + Morale + Mobility Impi. I don't know how useful having all that extra movement is, but it's just fun.
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Old Apr 13, 2007, 10:59 AM   #20
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First, thanks Sisiutil for your efforts. I have learned alot from the ALC games. I play Prince so I vote for no move to Emperor and no mods, but Aggresssive AIs or Raging Barbs could be entertaining. I'd like to mention something that relates to the current ALC game. I would like to see fewer "I checked out the map. See spoiler below" or "I played to xxxx AD. See spoiler below" posts. They don't really add anything to the discussion. Perhaps people could be encouraged to start their own "ALC Game XX Spoiler Thread"s or something.
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