Forts and resources

I know that forts grant access to resources on that tile inside you cultural borders, but has anyone actually verified that they do so outside your borders, too? I've seen it mentioned several times on here, always in an "I could..." context, but when I forted over an iron mine outside newly conquered Babylon in my last game to see if it worked that way, I didn't see any change in my number of iron resources. Either it doesn't, and that's just been a misconception of several posters, I already had access to that iron for some reason (it was in Babylon's first ring, but didn't enter my cultural borders until Babylon came out of resistance), or there's something I've overlooked.

If you want access to the resource the moment your borders expand to the resource then you build a fort there ahead of time (which is what they may be suggesting) but the fort outside won't give you anything. It can be useful get to metal hooked up faster (research bronze, send worker while building settler) or on those tundra resources not worth found a city by but you'll get in few hundred years when your closest citys borders reach them but will probably forget about when it does.

Thanks, that's how I thought it worked. Some may have been suggesting it that way, but I'm positive I saw at least one suggesting it the way I took it.

One time a got an event which for ~70 gold revealed all the oil on the map in the middle of the classical age. Since there were several sources barely within my boarders but far from cities (and on tundras and deserts of no strategic value) I went ahead and built forts there to give me a slight advantage in the latter game.

Solomwi said:

I know that forts grant access to resources on that tile inside you cultural borders, but has anyone actually verified that they do so outside your borders, too? I've seen it mentioned several times on here, always in an "I could..." context, but when I forted over an iron mine outside newly conquered Babylon in my last game to see if it worked that way, I didn't see any change in my number of iron resources. Either it doesn't, and that's just been a misconception of several posters, I already had access to that iron for some reason (it was in Babylon's first ring, but didn't enter my cultural borders until Babylon came out of resistance), or there's something I've overlooked.

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I think you are right and I am wrong.

I looked through my saves , where I had fortified remote resources, but when I tried to reconcile my resources , trades, etc. it didn't add up. The fortified resources beyond my borders apparently weren't in my trade network in spite of the forts and roads. Typically I would use this technique to monopolize resources, not nescessarily to trade them , So I didn't pay much attention to whether they showed up as being hooked to the network.


I got the wrong idea from reading pre-release chatlogs and interviews , I guess. However the statements were collected out of context.

- can be built outside of cultural borders
- function as cities in many ways
- can serve as ports
- can even be used to connect resources

All of which are true , but not nescessarily at the same time . I tested the statements in my games, verified them , and concluded it must be all true all of the time. It isn't.

If you could hook up a remote resource using a fort, a road, and a coastal fort.... you wouldn't need colonies. So, I actually prefer the present reality to my prior misconception.

I don't know if this is something like workboats making visible trade routes that was changed, or something that only ever existed in my imagination.

Either way I'm sorry for confusing anyone, and I'm sorry for disagreeing with everyone who knew what they were talking about.

CivDude86 said:

If you want access to the resource the moment your borders expand to the resource then you build a fort there ahead of time (which is what they may be suggesting) but the fort outside won't give you anything. It can be useful get to metal hooked up faster (research bronze, send worker while building settler) or on those tundra resources not worth found a city by but you'll get in few hundred years when your closest citys borders reach them but will probably forget about when it does.

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But don't you need construction? Or did they make forts available earlier?

Forts built on a resource in your territory provide that resources as if it had the right improvement on it? Does this just provide the resource or does it enhance the values of the tile as well? I assume you still require the right tech right? No hooking up dye with a fort before you can build plantations? Also, if you have a one square island with a resource in your territory, would it act as a city for hooking the resource up or must all resources still be connected by road or river to a city?

^^ Excellent questions. I demand answers!

PurpleTurtle said:

1) Forts built on a resource in your territory provide that resources as if it had the right improvement on it?
2) Does this just provide the resource or does it enhance the values of the tile as well?
3) I assume you still require the right tech right?
4) No hooking up dye with a fort before you can build plantations?
5) Also, if you have a one square island with a resource in your territory, would it act as a city for hooking the resource up or must all resources still be connected by road or river to a city?

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(numbering for readability by me)

1) yes
2) just the resource
3) yes
4) no
5) no idea

5) is an interesting question.

Access to a resource requires it being within your culture, improving the tile, connecting it by road to a port, and making sure that port is connected to your capital (or, using a river, if you're lucky).

Previously, that meant resources on islands needed a city. Conversely, each island needed at least one city, which means a lot of small useless cities which in BtS means extremely high expenses (and in some crowded archipelago cases, you even had too choose which islands' resources to abandon). Furthermore, a one square island meant you had to build a city on that very square, getting the resource, but losing the improvement bonuses.

Now, a fort can act like the improvement. It also can act like a canal (for ship movement). Does this mean it can also act like a port (the ability of a city to connect to the capital using the sea)?

This would be very nice indeed.

Having to build a city on each island is unrealistic, and in BtS, horrendously expensive.

Once there was a three-tile island inside my cultural borders, with some resource on it. So, I went and built roads and the required improvement, only to find out that that didn't provide me with anything (yeah, I should have known, but it hadn't happened to me before). So, I built a road and fort next to the resource and voila! The resource was now mine! So, yes, forts can act like ports. Nice touch, it's like having an option to build a small settlement in places where a city would be too much.

So, if a fort can't give you access to a resource outside your cultural border, why build a fort? I guess there's the benefit of using them as canals but then why call them forts?

CivScientist, because the plantation/mine/etc. gives you no benefit on resources outside any city's fat cross, where if you planted a unit over the resource, the fort gives a defense bonus. Also, as CivDude86 points out, you can fort the resource anytime, then have instant access the moment you get the right tech or your borders expand enough.

Can you chain more than one fort together on an isthmus of more then one square across to cut a continent in half for sea travel?

BuckeyeMC said:

Can you chain more than one fort together on an isthmus of more then one square across to cut a continent in half for sea travel?

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You can chain forts together but the maximum size chain is 2 forts.

Solomwi said:

CivScientist, because the plantation/mine/etc. gives you no benefit on resources outside any city's fat cross, where if you planted a unit over the resource, the fort gives a defense bonus. Also, as CivDude86 points out, you can fort the resource anytime, then have instant access the moment you get the right tech or your borders expand enough.

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True, there's the small benefit of building a fort over a resource outside a city's fat cross but inside your cultural borders. But, the benefit is insignificant I'd say. First off, building a fort generally takes longer than building a mine, quary, or farm and is it worth the 3 or 4 turns that you don't have access to that resource when you really need that iron or stone? Sure, you could build the fort later, but why waste the time of your workers. The real problem is, how often is that square going to get invaded that you need it with the maximum protection possible? And, I guess that's why I'm not too wowed about a fort built inside your cultural borders. Do you ever really need it on a regular basis?

Would it not be difficult for Firaxis to put in an "advanced options" or "preferences" screen in their game, where adjustments like "automated workers build forts" etc. could be fiddled with. I suppose it's not difficult but we'll never see it because there is not enough demand.

CivScientist said:

True, there's the small benefit of building a fort over a resource outside a city's fat cross but inside your cultural borders. But, the benefit is insignificant I'd say. First off, building a fort generally takes longer than building a mine, quary, or farm and is it worth the 3 or 4 turns that you don't have access to that resource when you really need that iron or stone? Sure, you could build the fort later, but why waste the time of your workers. The real problem is, how often is that square going to get invaded that you need it with the maximum protection possible? And, I guess that's why I'm not too wowed about a fort built inside your cultural borders. Do you ever really need it on a regular basis?

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In my very first BTS game I had oil in cultural borders that wasn't in any city borders (useless desert area of my map). You better believe being able to build a fort there to get access to oil the instant I got the right tech was helpful to me. And I believe building a fort takes less worker actions than building a well.

You can also build a fort on a resource that will move into your cultural borders in the next cultural border expansion (you can't improve squares outsider your cultural borders, but you can build a fort), getting you a resource more quickly.

And, as others have pointed out, being able to build connect island resources without building a city is quite helpful.

CivScientist said:

True, there's the small benefit of building a fort over a resource outside a city's fat cross but inside your cultural borders. But, the benefit is insignificant I'd say. First off, building a fort generally takes longer than building a mine, quary, or farm and is it worth the 3 or 4 turns that you don't have access to that resource when you really need that iron or stone? Sure, you could build the fort later, but why waste the time of your workers. The real problem is, how often is that square going to get invaded that you need it with the maximum protection possible? And, I guess that's why I'm not too wowed about a fort built inside your cultural borders. Do you ever really need it on a regular basis?

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I think the main benefit is being able to go ahead and hook up the resource before you can use it. The key point is the option. Where worker turns are too precious to build the fort, don't build it. Build your mine, farm, etc., instead. Where it's crucial to get the resource ASAP, go ahead and build the fort. Having the ability to build the fort there and not using it costs you nothing, but gives you the benefit of being able to make the tactical choice based on the individual situation. I doubt it was ever meant to wow you.

As far as how often it's going to get invaded, that question depends on your level, MP or SP and the resource. Some games it will never be in danger. Others it may be a high value pillaging target to your enemy. Consider also that the AI likes to guard its resources, so this helps it a little bit.

CivScientist said:

So, if a fort can't give you access to a resource outside your cultural border, why build a fort? I guess there's the benefit of using them as canals but then why call them forts?

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I suppose they should be called military bases, because they are naval/marine bases as well as army bases and air bases. But fort is the term from previous versions, and it's easy to spell and translate.