ALC Game 18, Take 2: Spain/Isabella

Round 7: 1460 AD to 1710 AD, Part 1
To start off the round, I made a couple of tech trades. May as well get what I can from Divine Right, I figure.

ALC18b_1710AD_01.jpg


I also obtained Music and 140 gold from Sury for DR. I quickly switched to Mercantilism and put mostly Merchants to work in many of my cities.

As I closed in on Liberalism, I began to switch to military builds in most of Spain's cities, anticipating the war to conquer Rome. I also, at long last, became Resident of the Apostolic Palace.

ALC18b_1710AD_02.jpg


That did allow me to stir up a little mischief later on.

When Liberalism was within a turn of completion, I left it aside and started putting research towards Economics instead.

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Yes, it will obsolete the UB, but the GM is a very tempting prize, especially given the dearth of gold in the treasury and all the unit upgrades I'm going to need to do: Swords and Axes to Macemen, Horse Archers and Knights to Conquistadors, and so on.

First, however, I lowered switched around the levels on the research and espionage sliders for about 5 or 6 turns, until I had visibility into every other civ's research, and also several espionage points to spare on Augustus. The Roman had built not only walls but also castles in many of his cities. I saw what a pain those are to remove with Joao. So I wanted plenty of EP to burn on city revolts, so the defenses would be removed on the turn that I attacked.

Once I had all the EPs I needed, I switched the sliders back and declared war.

ALC18b_1710AD_04.jpg


I was going to wait a couple more turns for a couple more units to be in place, but Augustus had a Great Merchant in my territory, evidently intended for a trade mission. I decided to take him out:

ALC18b_1710AD_05.jpg


I kind of think that if you capture a great person like this you get some sort of bonus. But there would have to be a price to balance it--probably diplomatically. Every one would close their borders to you for several turns because you can't be trusted. Or something like that.

At any rate, I suppose I could have let the GM finish the trade mission since I would have captured the gold eventually. But I figured Augustus was more likely to spend it, especially on unit upgrades or even purchasing techs, possibly military ones. No, it was better to just kill the GM, I think.

Now I thought I'd post the Battle of Neapolis in a little more detail, since some of you were asking about the effectiveness of the Spanish Citadel-promoted Trebuchets. First off, here's a look at the Roman garrison before I attacked:

ALC18b_1710AD_06.jpg


13 units, not a bad protective stack. They didn't attack my own offensive stack at the beginning of the turn at all.

After my Accuracy Cats removed the city's defenses, here's what the odds looked like for the first Treb's battle:

ALC18b_1710AD_07.jpg


It survived. Here's the damage it did to the defenders:

ALC18b_1710AD_08.jpg



So 75% damage to the defender, effectively rendering the Longbow a sitting duck for an attacking unit capable of killing, and 7.5% collateral damage to 4 other units. Who says I can't do math?

(Oh, yeah, I usually do. Well, it's kind of like a cat swimming; they can do it, but that doesn't mean they like it.)

By the time my 10 CRIII Trebs were finished, here's what the city defense looked like:

ALC18b_1710AD_09.jpg


Obviously, that meant my remaining units didn't have too hard a job taking the city.

ALC18b_1710AD_10.jpg


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Overall, the Trebs did outstanding work in the war. I did lose a couple--about one every other city. I don't think I lost any other units at all. All things considered, especially the part where Augustus had a slight tech lead, pretty darned good.

Augustus sent a couple of Catapults at Neapolis, but nothing too troubling. As my units healed I expected a massive counter-attack, but none came. Granted, I had enough EPs on Augustus to see that the type of counter-attack I feared meant he would have had to drain his cities of defenders, and I've noticed the AI is usually reluctant to do that.

Rome fell next:

ALC18b_1710AD_12.jpg


ALC18b_1710AD_14.jpg


As you can see, as a bonus, I have a settled Great Engineer! In fact, Neapolis had one as well. I think Rome is a good candidate, as good as any, for becoming the Ironworks city. Not a lot of watermills--4 in all--but the best candidate I've got at this point; it has a decent food supply, some hills to mine, and can get away with plenty of workshops, especially under State Property.

Oh, by the way, I should mention that I was surprised to run into Knights in Rome. Yep, Knights! It seems Augustus did manage to get some Galleons over to that island to our southeast:

ALC18b_1710AD_13.jpg


My Trebs meant the Knights didn't present too much of a problem, but I had to take precautions. It also meant I had to hold off on building more Trebs and rush-build some Pikemen instead.

In other news, I was closing in on Economics, and had Liberalism tucked away with only 1 turn to go for completion, so I figured I should get what I could for Education before everybody else researched and traded it and stuff.


ALC18b_1710AD_15.jpg


I also got Printing Press from Sury. I dunno, these two guys have been awfully friendly so far.

To be continued...
 
84% chance to win for the CR3 trebuchet and the odds will only get better. No way AC can withstand that. Tasty land for the taking. Let AC keep the other 2 cities for now. No way you can reach them. Or maybe you can vasalize him and then let him become a colony. How is that working right now? If you let him become a colony will there still be WW for we long for our motherland when you declare war?

So what are you going to take with liberalism in the bag? Chemistry, coorporation and replacable parts are all in range. Chemistry would be great if you can get astronomy from AC in the peace talkings. If I understand correctly it will give you Privateers right?
 
84% chance to win for the CR3 trebuchet and the odds will only get better. No way AC can withstand that. Tasty land for the taking. Let AC keep the other 2 cities for now. No way you can reach them. Or maybe you can vasalize him and then let him become a colony. How is that working right now? If you let him become a colony will there still be WW for we long for our motherland when you declare war?

So what are you going to take with liberalism in the bag? Chemistry, coorporation and replacable parts are all in range. Chemistry would be great if you can get astronomy from AC in the peace talkings. If I understand correctly it will give you Privateers right?
They should quit whining once you have assimilated them, which would be quite a bit easier without pesky Roman cultural borders causing issues. I wouldn't mind vassalizing both Romans, myself. Especially Justinian. IMO, a big, mediocre island is perfect for a colony....
 
Round 7: 1460 AD to 1710 AD, Part 2

Okay, this is a little embarrassing. The only one researching Economics was Elizabeth, and she had 22 turns left on it. So I had at least that many turns to pump out Trebs. And so what do I do? Forget to switch techs I'm researching.

ALC18b_1710AD_17.jpg


You know how it is when you get caught up running a war in this game and lose track of everything else, right? I guess I could have reloaded from an auto-save, but I try to play honestly. Most of the time. And besides... free GM!

Frankly, I wasn't really building any more Trebs at this point. I figured I had plenty to finish the war. Yes, they'd prove handy in future wars, but with all several settled Great Generals and West Point not far away, I can build highly-promoted siege weapons from scratch.

So the GM was on his way overseas while I continued pounding at Augustus. After I garrisoned Rome, my stack went north to Cumae, which had a walls and castle. I used a spy there to take care of both:

ALC18b_1710AD_18.jpg


I was looking forward to getting the spices available. As you can see, the culture slider was inching upwards to deal with mounting war weariness.

I landed the GM in one of Sury's cities and found that he would get the same deal throughout the continent as he got there.

ALC18b_1710AD_19.jpg


Well, that certainly helped. I was able to upgrade several units and pump up the research slider. As you can see, I was now pursuing Spain's unique unit, the Conquistador. I decided that after Nationalism I would finish Liberalism and take Military Tradition so that the Conquistadors could see some action against Rome.

As I mentioned earlier, I caused a little trouble with the AP.

ALC18b_1710AD_20.jpg


I successfully cut off trade with Washington, whom my overseas buddies Gilly and Sury dislike. Augustus was getting Ivory from George--yes, he had War Elephants as well as Knights. So that hit Augustus' military as well as his happiness, though he now had horses and didn't really need the hephalumps.

Once Nationalism was finished, as I mentioned, I took Military Tradition from Liberalism:

ALC18b_1710AD_21.jpg


In terms of power rating, I was doing all right:

ALC18b_1710AD_22.jpg


With Rome's northern territory secured, I began to sweep south in a clockwise direction. Antium was next, and contained another settled Great Person:

ALC18b_1710AD_23.jpg


Hmm, lots of unhappy citizens. I whipped them away. I haven't posted any civics screenshots, but I was very active in that regard in this round, getting the most out of the Spiritual trait. I ran Theocracy for a while to get promoted units, then went back to Organized Religion to help with infrastructure needed to deal with war weariness. I adopted Mercantilism as soon as it was available, as I mentioned, and at the end of the round I changed civics again, but you'll see that later.

Meanwhile, overseas, as I expected, someone else built Versailles.

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Speaking of my buddy Gilgamesh, I researched a bit of Astronomy to cheapen the price and then got it from him in a Trade:

ALC18b_1710AD_25.jpg


He hasn't gone to Free Market yet, but hopefully he won't wait too long.

Astronomy took away the benefits of the Colossus but made up for it in many ways. I was able to get several happy and healthy resources from Sury and Gilgamesh, as well as a good pile of gold per turn. I also traded with Elizabeth, but refused to have anything to do with Washington, even though he had some GPT to offer. I want to try to keep Gilly and Sury as friendly as I can, and with our religious differences, I hardly need a penalty for trading with their worst enemy as well.

I got another Great Person in Madrid, another Great Scientist, but I haven't decided how to use him.

ALC18b_1710AD_26.jpg


I already built an academy there with my first post-Education GS. I could settle him, I could trigger a Golden Age (though those are slightly less attractive in BtS for a Spiritual leader), or I could use him to help with Scientific Method. I think if I do the latter I could then obtain SM from Gilgamesh for Liberalism, but I'm reluctant to help out my main score rival if I can help it.

However, I may want to trade Liberalism myself before someone else does.

ALC18b_1710AD_27.jpg


Yes, I gave it to him. It's one of those rules of triangle diplomacy: give in to requests from your friends as much as possible. Besides, if he goes to free religion, it would get rid of any religious differences we have. Giving Sury Liberalism like this bumped him to Friendly, but I've noticed that Sury is one of the stingier leaders. He had around 140 gold that most leaders who were friendly would gladly cough up, but he refuses, even after getting a free tech like this.

Shortly after this, the last Roman city on my continent fell:

ALC18b_1710AD_28.jpg


Yep, another settled Great General, this one earned just a few turns beforehand. I still thing Oporto would make a better West Point city, but it's nice to have options.

I also finished another tech...

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So now I can build Frigates and Privateers, though I doubt the latter will see much action in this game, if any. Gilgamesh has Chemistry and Astronomy too, you see, so any Privateers I send to the other continent are liable to get chased off by Sumerian Frigates.

Well, Privateers weren't a target in this game; Conquistadors were, and they saw some action towards the end, helping to capture the last 3 cities. They were by no means crucial, but it was reassuring to have them along nonetheless. They will doubtless see some action in our next war, wherever that may be. Ironically, Spain's UB meant that her UU was, in this game, not a big factor. The uber-Trebs stole their thunder.

War weariness was mounting back home again and the main goals of the war had been achieved, so I decided to make peace.

ALC18b_1710AD_30.jpg


Besides, I don't have any Galleons ready to go finish Augustus off. We'll need them for whatever I decide to do next, however. By the way, he refused to capitulate. Stubborn little bugger.

And that's where I ended the round. The continent is united under Spanish hegemony. Interesting in this game how Spain ended up with her real-world geographical neighbours. All I needed was France somewhere nearby and I would have had all the usual suspects gathered.

A state of the world post will follow.
 

Attachments

Nice round Sisiutil. Dude, I need to start spamming trebs, I haven't had a decent stack of doom in BtS yet...
 
The State of the World, 1710 AD

So here's a look at Augustus' version of St. Helena:


ALC18b_1710AD_31.jpg


Is that horse city badly placed or what? 2 north and it would have the horses, both flood plains, and the fish. Is it worth taking or should I just leave him there to rot? I can get whales and crabs by conquering Justinian, after all.

Domestic advisor:

ALC18b_1710AD_32.jpg


I want to finish those monasteries before I think about getting Scientific Method, which I could from Gilgamesh, I think, if I use the GS to lightbulb part of it. Not that the monasteries are good for much besides missionaries after SM, but they're nice to have around for that.

Aside from that, Oxford University is within reach and Wall Street isn't too far off either. Hence the Libraries, Universities, and Banks. I'm putting a Synagogue in Madrid so I can try to generate a Great Prophet for the Christian shrine--another reason to have as many Christian monasteries completed as possible.

Financial advisor:

ALC18b_1710AD_33.jpg


Once the war ended, I deleted several obsolete units to save on costs. I'm using Mercantilism's free specialists mostly for merchants and I'm working as many commerce-rich tiles as I reasonably clan. So I'm already close to 60% on the slider and I'll doubtless zip past it as more cottages secure and I build more commerce multipliers.

Civics:

ALC18b_1710AD_34.jpg


HR for happiness and because I have nothing better, Free Speech for commerce, Caste System for specialists and more hammers from workshops, Mercantilism for specialists as well and because almost everyone else is running it, and OR for infrastructure.

Foreign advisor, relations at a glance:

ALC18b_1710AD_35.jpg


Trade and civics:

ALC18b_1710AD_36.jpg


Techs:

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As you can see, Gilgamesh is my main tech rival at the moment. I'm hesitant about trading him Liberalism because I don't like trading with my main rival, even if he is pleased with me, if I can avoid it. Plus Liberalism is worth hogging for a while, since it leads to Communism now and a free Great Spy.

I chose Steel as my next research target but I can be persuaded to pursue something else. Steel, though, makes sense--I can upgrade my CR Trebs to Cannon, get started on the Ironworks in Rome, and build Drydocks. Several other civs are researching Constitution, so I can probably get it in trade. The AI likes Constitution, I've noticed. Then again, if we want the Statue of Liberty, it might make sense to get on with it.

Victory Conditions:

ALC18b_1710AD_38.jpg


I include this because I think it's the main decision point this time around. Should I keep pursuing domination, or should I switch to something like the space race?

I've got a long way to go to a domination win. I really didn't start warring until quite late. It may even make sense to forget about Justinian and invade the other continent to get that ball rolling. Washington would be an obvious first target, giving me several cities for launching points of an intercontinental invasion. A captured America could build units while Spain's heartland finances the war.

On the other hand, I think taking out Justinian would allow the UU and the products of the UB one last hurrah, and would leave me in an excellent position to launch into space. Thoughts?

Some graphs. Power first:

ALC18b_1710AD_39.jpg


So Gilgamesh has a lead there, no doubt because he got to Chemistry first and probably has several Frigates now. Should I be worried about him invading me at some point? Is Gilgamesh a steady guy if he's pleased, or is he a back-stabber? And what about Sury in that regard?

Production:

ALC18b_1710AD_40.jpg


This bodes well for either type of win, I think. Even with cities just coming out of revolt and Gilgamesh owning similar amounts of population and land, I'm a good ways ahead of him in hammers.

Demographics:

ALC18b_1710AD_41.jpg


This kind of surprised me. I just finished a war, and yet I'm #1 in GNP. Behold the power of the Spiral Minaret, methinks.

So that's where things stand. Like I said, the main thing to decide is whether I stay the course and pursue domination, or change tacks and go after the space race. And what would then be the next steps towards either victory condition?
 
I dont think you have anything to worry about. he doesnt like washington so if he's going to invade anyone, it'd probably be him (or elizabeth if she is not his vassal yet). If you're going for a dom win, which i think you should still do cause they're the most fun, i would invade justinian and create a colony out of his territory. If i'm not mistaken, which i may very well be, don't colonies and vassal count towards your domination win? that's something i've always wondered about. Plus, if you created a colony, you would be able to invest less troops in defense and not have to worry about the newly acquired cities killing your economy.
 
Very good use of espionage, IMHO.
Although, I totally disagree with the tech options (CR3 cannons instead of a GM, anyone?), you just put yourself in a totally winning position.
Is justinian still Rome's vassal?

Next moves IMHO :
- build 2/3 galleons, 1/2 frigates, go get that barb city before Rome does (this one is a keeper!),
- stack enough troops there
- finish Rome
- go for justinian (capitulation is certainly possible from this guy, easier than from AC)

PS: just a reminder, you have the SM + UoS combo, you're spiritual. Nothing beats a jewish temple in the efficiency field.
 
Nice round. Great siege makes a huge difference. I'm surprised Augie didn't try to hit you with more knights for the new flanking effect, or try to reduce your strength with some collateral damage attacks.

Izzy in space? I can't see her whispering in your ear about Alpha Centauri with the same fervor as she would if the subject was world domination.

Seems to me that Domination is all about grabbing the proverbial low-hanging fruit. Justinian is nearby and will probably give you another 10-15% on land and population. Rome, another 3-5%. Washington, who's hurting, would give you 10% or so. That would leave you with only having to partially defeat Gilgamesh to win, hopefully aided by Sury whom you drag into the war with the AP.

The danger of going after Washington before Gilgamesh is that he may volunatarily vassalize himself to the Sumerian once you have him on the ropes (but before he would capitulate to you), dragging you into a much bigger conflict and heavier war weariness.

So the safer move might be: conquer Justinan and Augie (the latter perhaps en route to Sumeria); get the AP religion spread a little bit to Sury; ramp up and go after Gilgamesh with help from the AP ally; take out Washington for the win. Not as climactic as ending with Gilgamesh, but probably more effective. Declaring on Gilgamesh will result in war with Liz too, but once you knock him down a bit she may break free from his rule and you can make a separate peace with her.
 
That's your continent secured. Good round. Time to spread Judaism to Sury and Augustus (via the caravel, missionary gift) and proceed to take down Justinian. Then reduce Augustus to that one poorly placed city and take his techs off him.

If you're going to convert the world to christianity, Izzy will need to start churning out Christian missionaries.

Sitting a spy inside London would give you visibility of the units in the city and just wait. Sury will DoW Gilgamesh and ask Spain to join in. Spain will need a force to take London before the SoZ starts eating into your production.

You could offer Lizzy some of Justinians ex-cities to break her vassalage to Gilgamesh and reduce your maintenance bill.
 
Okay, how to fix the economy:

I know you just came out of a war and all, and in "war mode" you set your cities to work the mines and it was units, units, units. (and now you have quite a few too many units but lets ignore that for now). In war it was production that was your strength, but now your cities are set up like you're gonna produce their way out of it. But simply throwing hammers into a courthouse isn't the best way. lemme explain

If you look at Barcelona, it's got a maintenance of 6.95 :gold: and is set to complete a courthouse in 3 turns, saving it roughly 3.5 :gold: in maintenance costs (way #1). But if you take the citizen off the 4:hammers: iron tile and put him on a sea tile you'll see your income jump by 3:gold: while the courthouse completes in 4 turns (way #2). And if you take even another citizen off the other mine and work the sea you income jump by another 2:gold: and now the courthouse completes is 5 turns (way #3).

A quick calculation for 5 turns with the three ways.

way #1: 3 turns @ +0:gold: & 2 turns(courthouse done) @ + 3.5:gold: = +7:gold:

way #2: 5 turns @ +3:gold: & 1 turn w/ +3.5:gold: = 18.5:gold:

way #3: 5 turns @ +5:gold: = 25:gold:

So you see, even though you're building the courthouse to save you money it's better to use your tiles to make more money in the first place. You built the Colossus, use the damn thing. All your coastal cities should be set to max growth, working all the sea tiles they can untill they get there. The above calculations don't even take into account that the sea tiles speed up your growth increasing your pop for more tiles. Run up your pop till it hits the happiness cap, completely disregarding health. If unhealth gets too big, whip a building. Something you have yet to build is the harbor, the perfect answer to your health problems, and they even raise money (even if only for domestic routes) and as Expansive their dirt cheap. In Barcelona's case, a harbor will raise more money than a courthouse and is less expensive to build, even with most of the courthouse built already. Use your cheap temples and exspansive buildings and especially the Colossus. I don't know if you can win the Liberalism race, but it's a start.

Spiritual/Expansive is a very good combo; cheap happy, cheap health, and Izzy's got the weapons to take the land to use these traits with. Just wait til you get the Conquistidor, or better yet, wait til you get all those upgraded CR3 Cannons.

people are pressing to fight Augustus but he's no threat. Work on the economy instead, at least for a little bit.

This analysis is incomplete.
It doesn't account for the lost :hammers:
If one assumes 1:1 hammer-gold conversion (wealth) the iron tile counts for 4 gold.

For example if you get the courthouse 1 turn later, you have lost the production of the iron for 4 turns, meaning you lost
4*4 =16:gold: (your way2)
If you lose another mine (lest's say 3:hammers: ) and get the courthouse 2 turns later you lost the production of 7:hammers: for 5 turns,
5*7 =35:gold: (your way3)

In practice, making the most depends on several factors.
All multiplieres (markets for :gold: ,forges for :hammers: ...) have to be take into account, also all benefits of the building (you get it earlier, for example a higher health or happy cap which could allow more people on the fields, GP or spy points....)
Also food has to be considered (you mentioned this in your post in the lower part), you have to account for the turns you get the next pop faster, if you win x turns you have to convert it with the tile this new citizen works and with the multipliers in place)

Summary: I don't say that delaying buildings for growth or commerce can not be useful but you have to consider the lost production and convert it at least roughly (with the multipliers in place)
City specialisation and the available tiles have to be considered before maxing commerce or production.
 
By the way, he refused to capitulate. Stubborn little bugger.

Not really stubborn, just a Civ can't capitulate if they have a vassal, and presumably, Justinian is still Augustus's vassal. If you can get Justinian to break off, then Augustus would almost certainly capitulate, but I'm not sure there's any way to convince Justinian to do so.

Bh
 
reminder: right now all of your espionage is directed at Gus. you probably want to change that. you're also working hills in seville and cordoba that give the same food but less hammers than workshops there do. i guess that's due to changing in and out of caste? before railroads, when you're not in caste the workshops and hills are identical in production i think. if so, work the workshops as default, since you never lose that way and you do sometimes win. i haven't been in caste a single time in BtS so i don't know for sure how it goes *giggle*.

as far as SciM, i hate to see you pop a GS to trade for a tech, especially one so many people know. i like to settle them. then i looked to see why the others have it redlined. we're in a terrible tech trading situation boss. "Several other civs are researching Constitution, so I can probably get it in trade." i'm not real sure that several civs knowing something is going to help you other than lowering the beaker cost. there are 6 other civs on the map. 4 of them say they'll never trade with you, their worst enemy! *gigglefest*

That's your continent secured. Good round. Time to spread Judaism to Sury and Augustus (via the caravel, missionary gift) and proceed to take down Justinian. Then reduce Augustus to that one poorly placed city and take his techs off him.

quoting S:

"Yes, I gave it to him. It's one of those rules of triangle diplomacy: give in to requests from your friends as much as possible. Besides, if he goes to free religion, it would get rid of any religious differences we have. Giving Sury Liberalism like this bumped him to Friendly"

i'm with you there and i don't disagree. he has access to 4 religions, he didn't found a single one of them, and he has 4 cities with 3 religions in them already. so i think he likely will go FR soonish. he'll like you more at that point, that's cool. but ... he's already friendly with you. he's cautious with justin which is good; at cautious you won't get a -1 you DoWd our friend. the cautious is a total of -2, and -3 of that is religious differences. so when sury goes FR, he'll be at +1 to justin, which may qualify as pleased for him (he's pleased with Gilga at +2).

so since i like the smallest collection of -DoWd friends i can get, i'd hold off on spreading judaism to sury until after we blow the trumpet on justin. it won't make him hate you but red clashes with my hair so i avoid them any way possible. besides, we're already going to get a -1 with Gilga. you know, the only other guy on the planet that doesn't consider us his worst enemy :lol:. i gotta rub that in since when i realized it was 2/3rds of the world i laughed so hard i scared my dogs!

"So Gilgamesh has a lead there, no doubt because he got to Chemistry first and probably has several Frigates now. Should I be worried about him invading me at some point? Is Gilgamesh a steady guy if he's pleased, or is he a back-stabber? And what about Sury in that regard?"

i don't really know what they're like yet. haven't played against Sury or if i did it was a game with no wars at all. two games with Gilga, he hasn't stabbed me yet, but you know i watch diplo like a hawk so i may not be the best test case there. for example, i'm never the worst enemy of 2/3rd of the world! okay, i'll stop now *giggle*.

did you notice that Gilga happens to have enough on his hands right now? i don't think you'd be the target atm, not with folks lower than you in power right next door and already distracted by a war :mischief:
 
Not really stubborn, just a Civ can't capitulate if they have a vassal, and presumably, Justinian is still Augustus's vassal. If you can get Justinian to break off, then Augustus would almost certainly capitulate, but I'm not sure there's any way to convince Justinian to do so.

Bh

I'm not sure about that... IIRC I had civs that had colonies that capitulated to me and it resulted in the colony being freed from them, and not at war with me anymore. The reason why Augustus isn't capitulating is because the rest of his cities are on another continent, and you're not threatening them in any way. It's like when an AI is willing to capitulate right before you take his capital (down to one defender for example), but not after you just took it. It doesn't perceive you as such a big threat as before.

Anyway, very nice round Sisiutil. It showed me why I have problems on Emperor: not enough units. :) Those Trebs were really impressive. I know you could have waited for Economics but don't beat yourself for it. You could go for Scientific Method and spend the earned cash to get both the GS from Physics (should be done first as Elizabeth might beat you to it) and the GSpy from Communism.

As cabert said, you have a new "UB", the Jewish temple: gold from SM, research from UoS and hammers from Apostolic Palace. Plus they're cheap. That should probably be the first building in the new cities. You can forget about Monasteries if you go for Scientific Method though. Keep building them if you go for Steel first.
 
lol too bad the better AI project is no longer on.... or else I'd asked blake to improve the AI to use GGs as Warlords in losing wars instead or settling them... I especially have no idea why he settled those GEs but more Hammers for you I guess.

Yea I agree is you're going for Dom Win then Steel next is a good choice for Drydock and Navigation 1 Galleons... remember to switch to military civics for level 3 Galleons. Cannons and IWs are a plus too.

Attack Justinian then make your own vassal after finishing him off then after after the rest, no one every said you should go for a Domination, you can just Vassalise everyone and win by Conquest... I reckon Izzy would like to Vassalise everyone wouldn't she?

If the wars last long enough to the Modern age, we can get to see the new toys... like Paratroopers... attack America then use Paratroopers I don't see why not assuming the games last that long.
 
I'm not sure about that... IIRC I had civs that had colonies that capitulated to me and it resulted in the colony being freed from them, and not at war with me anymore.

Hmm, turns out you're right. That's what I get for trying to read code first thing in the morning. ;)

Bh
 
If the plan is changing to go for space, is Justinian even necessary to take out? Unless there is oil or coal or aluminum on that island that you need, all you will do is replace Justinian with a colony of your own. And even then, a corporation can take care of oil or aluminum. The whale won't help as a happiness resource much longer. The crab can be traded for or taken from Augustus.

I think you are correct that Rome is the best Ironworks option. The next best is probably Lisbon. Where do you plan to put Oxford? I ask because you have kept 5 forests in Madrid's fat cross, which could mean National Epic / National Park for additional specialists. Could Cordoba or Lisbon be the best location for Oxford?

Is it worth it to move the palace to Barcelona with Wall Street and use a Customs House to increase overseas trade? You haven't built the Forbidden Palace yet either, correct? Is that the best bet for Rome's second national wonder, or is Neapolis a better option for the FP? That's assuming space as a plan; if the plan is domination then save the FP for the other continent.
 
I would go ahead and finish Rome off so that you will not still have people missing the old country. With only four cities on the island the colony costs won't be too bad once you have courthouses. Since that means that you will be at war with Justinian I would work him over at the same time. If you take the barb city on Rome's island you could build up your troops there, then have your galleons available for the invasion of Justinian. I would just hammer on Justinian until he capitulates, then give his cities back.
 
I would build a couple of galleons, a settler, and some missionaries...head to Rome and conquer his island. Raze Visarae and use the settler for the correct spot. DO NOT ACCEPT capitulation from Rome.....if you do, he wont give you anything like resources or techs. Once you own all 4 cities and Rome is gone......Liberate them to a new leader. This new leader will be happy with you...will trade resources and techs and will research whatever you want him too. He will trade every resource on that island to you.

Then take that same army that now has more XP's up to Justunian and do the same. Justinian might be different in that you might not have the speed to capture all his cities before he capitulates to someone else, so youll have to use judgement there.
 
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