All Leaders Challenge Game 19: Sumer/Gilgamesh

:goodjob: The Vikings are now part of history :D

Wond-aholic as I still am (a bit), would it be possible to delay the barracks in Vikington and move the oracle there (theres still 3 forests to chop there, and some hills for production) whilst starting pyramids in the capital (more forests to chop there)? Incensehorsestoneville could then be dedicated to spamming arcers/settlers/workers for settling westwards through the Desertfloodston over to Copperfield first, then maybe another set for initiation of jungle settlements, as well as starting spamming units for barbarian overkills. By then mids/oracle would be finished, and the other cities can join in on the fun, but not forgetting that one city should be dedicated to GL.

The barb city due west I would race (they do have ponies, though, so we'll need copper first), and settle on Validators green spot http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=246812&page=7

I don't think it would be possible to completely block off Washy, we'll have to restrickt ourselves to damagedcontrol and finally genicide. (Ooooo, I'm bad :lol: )

To deal with economy, we definitely need pottery (3 cities is a lot of economic waste without cottages), and to deal with jungle we need IW (apart from the fact that it would be rather nice to know where the iron's at). And fishing/sailing/writing is also priorities. :hmm: Tough joices.
I think I would change tech to pottery, then fishing, after that IW, sailing, writing.

(All advice to be taken with not a grain but a kilo of salt, as emperor level is waaay above my head :eek:)
 
Hmm. Pottery, Priesthood, and Alphabet are all priorities. Therein lies a problem: choose Pottery for cottages or Priesthood for Oracle and Zuggurat?
 
Hmm. Pottery, Priesthood, and Alphabet are all priorities. Therein lies a problem: choose Pottery for cottages or Priesthood for Oracle and Zuggurat?
He already has priesthood, currently building oracle in capital and a ziggurat in Horseystoneswille. At least that's what one of his last screenprints are showing.

One less problem :lol:
 
I think we can put off IW, I would imagine George already has it and we could just steal it from him. We need to beeline economy techs to help with the REx after alphabet. Courthouses Libs and cottages need to be built everywhere and Nidaros needs to get set up to be GP farm. I would put down the other FP city to get more cottages working and mine everything in Uruk to make it our production base. Then expand into the jungle and aggressively block Washington in the jungle.
 
I think you should stop building the oracle, build a ziggurat to be with the Great Wall and start getting that great spy faster. Meanwhile work on settling some new cities, and getting your economy in gear.

Fishing -> Pottery (can't recall if you have this already) -> Writing -> Alphabet. Those espionage points don't do you any good w/o spies.

Regarding the pyramids... if this wasn't a game designed to show a leader's strengths, I would say go for it and chop away. It is incredibly effective for your spy economy to have all your spy specialists generating extra labs. But I can see the point that the pyramids are so powerful, it might lessen the showcase of Gilgamesh.
 
Aha! Good catch. Okay, grab Pottery ASAP. This will let you tech to Writing while the Oracle is being built; thus, when it's completed you can lightbulb either Metal Casting OR Code of Laws. I'm leaning towards CoL for religious purposes, and -never mind, no Courthouses- okay, and nothing. Metal Casting, then, will let you hit Forges and the Colossus. Which are both very good indeed.
 
I think you should stop building the oracle, build a ziggurat to be with the Great Wall and start getting that great spy faster. Meanwhile work on settling some new cities, and getting your economy in gear.

Fishing -> Pottery (can't recall if you have this already) -> Writing -> Alphabet. Those espionage points don't do you any good w/o spies.

Regarding the pyramids... if this wasn't a game designed to show a leader's strengths, I would say go for it and chop away. It is incredibly effective for your spy economy to have all your spy specialists generating extra labs. But I can see the point that the pyramids are so powerful, it might lessen the showcase of Gilgamesh.

I agree with the tech path, however I think the pyramids are always worth it.
I think going pyramids (for HR) in the capital, oracle (for alphabet) in the second city (biggest hammers) and brracks, granary, library in nidaros is the way to go.
 
Round 4: 925 BC to 305 BC (30 turns):

I started the round in a very similar fashion to the previous one, by changing my research targets based upon several recommendations here in the thread. I put Sumer on a path towards Alphabet and Spies in order to take advantage of my imminent Great Spy.



I also adjusted the builds in my three cities:



Two wonders? Pretty ambitious for Emperor level, I know, but what the heck. I figured if I fail, I get more gold to keep research running at a deficit.

This meant that Uruk, the capital, had to provide everything else this round--Settlers, military, and so on. I didn't build a Ziggurat to hurry the Great Spy because I looked at how long it would take to generate the GSpy at the current rate and compared that to how long it would take to finish researching Alphabet. I can't really leverage the GSpy before Alphabet allows me to build Spy units, so there was no sense hurrying the GSpy, especially not when I had to support some REX and defense while my two other cities worked on wonders.

Meanwhile, I gathered up my veteran Chariot units and moved them north towards one of the barb cities. I was able to snag a Worker:



And then I was able to raze the city. I only lost one Chariot; all the others either withdrew or won. Now the area was clear for the second flood plains city.



However, that wasn't the first city I founded in this round. I had sent a spare Chariot to the southwest to fog-bust the closest source of copper, then sent the first Settler over that way.



Unfortunately, most of my Workers were busy chopping wonders, so the copper was not hooked up by the end of the round. But at least I have a source of copper for Vultures now. Meanwhile, I've built a few Protective Archers to defend my cities. And coincidentally, most of my cities are on hills! Take that, AI!

In Nidaros, I chopped all three of its surrounding forests. As its borders expanded and I finished researching Fishing, I focused first on growing the city to its happiness cap (only four pop, not much); then I switched the tiles worked to hurry along the Oracle. I even took a bit of a risk, delaying its finish so I could research Pottery first.



Building it in Nidaros does create the long-term potential issue that I might generate a Great Prophet rather than a Great Scientist when I want them, but GPs have there uses too. Especially in BtS, where just one of them can be used to trigger a Golden Age. Remember that my continent still has to religions, so one might come in handy for that as well.

I wanted Pottery so that I could claim this tech:



That's right, Metal Casting. I figured I had a good shot at the Pyramids, in which case, taking Monarchy from the Oracle would be a waste, especially with no wine tiles around. Of course I was taking a risk, but that's what this game, and life in general, is all about.

Despite being Creative and going a little wonder-crazy, though, Washington is out-culturing me:



Then again, I'm not sure how to interpret culture as a representation of a civilization's overall stature in the game.

Late in the round, I founded another city, the one in preparation for which I'd razed the barb city:



Without that barb city, it meant I would have no competition for the horse tile, and no threat to my Workers while the built a pasture on it.

And on the last turn of the round...




So now I've completed an early wonder trifecta: the Great Wall, the Pyramids, and the Oracle--one in each of my three early cities. And I even managed to keep the GP points pure... so far. Cool, huh?

Mind you, I'm worried that this has left me looking like a tasty treat to Washington. So I think the next priority is to get that copper hooked up, and then beef up the military with a few Vultures.

Here's a look at the current city builds:



And a look at the Financial Advisor, since the economy is becoming more of a concern:



The long and short of this is that the current situation is unsustainable. With the Pyramids in hand, I'm tempted to go SE, but even if I do I need to bring up my income just to support what I already have. Even Ziggurats won't make me break even here.

And finally, a look at the map:



So what next? I haven't changed civics yet. Representation seems like the obvious choice, but should it be? With the dearth of early happy resources, Hereditary Rule might make a better choice--at least for a while, maybe until Calendar so I can raise the happy cap on all my cities.

Related to that: should I go CE or SE? I have the Pyramids and early representation available to make the most of the SE. But I'd need to go after Code of Laws soon to run Caste System and merchant specialists to support the economy. But I need some cottages, and soon, anyway, as you can see by the state of Sumer's finances. And with all those flood plains, maybe I should just go CE anyway. On the other hand, a cottage economy will, as usual, take some time to get going, and I might have to focus on building a lot of Workers to lay down cottages rather than military units to keep George from attacking me prematurely. Hmmm, decisions decisions...

Speaking of George. Validator has brought up the issue, more than once, of how to deal with Washington, and I think I need to start laying the groundwork for that in the next round. He hasn't expanded into the jungle too much yet, but I think he has Iron Working--I though I saw an American Swordsman at one point. I'm already planning on stealing techs from him; I also anticipate having what may turn out to be a series of wars with him. It kind of makes sense to let him found cities while I focus on military units. It's a big continent to settle, after all. And I'd like to take that marble south of New York off his hands by the time I'm ready to build the Great Library in Nidaros.

Thoughts?
 

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Well done as always. Now lets see if these Vultures are worth building, or if we are playing the wondermonger Gilgamesh.
 
Hmm..the barb city to the northwest is named Illinois, yes? Isn't that an American city? Was it founded then captured? If so, is the AI more keen to capture barb cities that it lost than ordinary barb cities?
 
@Sisiutil
Extremely well done :hatsoff:, as always.
Not only two shiny (and very useful) wonders, but also a barb city, floodplains and copper. Nice :goodjob:

Alphabet for certain. I also think approaching CoL would be a good idea, a shrine would help out with the economy, and a religion is always good for :)
And somewhere along the line you'll have to grab IW for the jungle.
Too much to do, and so little time to do it. :lol:

Workers and more workers are worth their weight in :gold:, why not build one in each city in addition to the one you're currently building in the capital?
As for the floodplains; cottage up but, throw in a couple of farms for rapid groth/specialists/citizens to work the cottages?
Seems I'm suggesting a hybrid economi :hmm:, but in this respect you should really listen to the experts, they're the :king:s, while I'm just a stumbling noob :eek:, just about to get the hang of things, mostly thanks to your thread. ;)

Oh, and Illinois is a nice city, worthy of your ownership :trouble:, don't you think?

Hmm..the barb city to the northwest is named Illinois, yes? Isn't that an American city? Was it founded then captured? If so, is the AI more keen to capture barb cities that it lost than ordinary barb cities?
In all of my games, Illinois has always been barbarian whether or not the american has been around, so I suppose that city name is reserved for barbarians.
 
you wonder happy nut :p

damn nice work.. killing off ragnar and having a relatively passive neighbor washington was damn good.

after you get the spyage online I'd run a forged engineer to beeline for a great engineer

*now try to remember to generate a 2nd one so you can found mining inc this time around*

personally I'd go for a CE, you only have 1 neighbor so unlikely you will get to trade with him. go for a CE and some espionage to keep tech pairity with washington until you get caravels that should solve your tech problems right then and there.

peacefully expand but keep your power rating up and all should be well

NaZ
 
in the SW of the map there is a nice city site if you settle 1S of the cows. You get 17food from working 3 tiles plus the city center if you have a light house. That is enough to support 5 specialists. if you can get the happy cap there to 11 with calendar then you can farm one grassland and run 6 specialists, Happy cap at 13 and you can work the other two grassland farms and run 7. Not a bad auxillary GP farm and the GP pool would be unpolluted. plus being coastal you can build a harbor for a little bit of trade route loot. And the crabs will help stave off green faces in Nidaros. with aharbor in nidaros they arer good for two extra health.

sorry carabodes for not using smilies
 
sorry carabodes for not using smilies
You're easily forgiven ;)
And you can leave the smilies to KMadCandy and me, we twin sisters use enough of them to make up for any missing smilies from anybody else :D
 
Just a thought, with ziggies your maintenancce will drop to 15.5.plus about 3 more for a new city where I previously mentioned for a total of 18.5. If you are running the five specialists plus the 4 commerce from the fish and crabs, and one point 5 commerce from a trade route with a harbor. That is 15 (from merchants specialists, and a little over 4 from the commerce at 80% science for a total of 19 GPT...which will cover your city costs. Running those 5 specialsts will eventually get you a GM.....you do want Sid's sushi later? or can be used for a 2nd GA later on.
 
i used to love SE, but now im more of a CE nut. i vote hybrid turned into a CE. cottage the FPs while running scientists in your non river cities (Spy in your capital) and the engineer in eridu since i like that engineer idea. however I'm all about settling GP's. the 2 :hammers: and 5:commerce: are HUGE boosts to early economies and even down the line that'll help you conitnue aggressive expansion

and illinois isn't a terrible city, but i dont think it's placed well for the over all consideration of the map. of course taking it still has it's benefits. the first barb city i'd take over is the one N of the capital.
 
But I'd need to go after Code of Laws soon to run Caste System and merchant specialists to support the economy.

Not so, not so. Two scientists per city plus cottages is a fine way to do it, especially before Civil Service.
And especially with cheap Libraries and Zigs.
 
Go Representation, get ziggurats up, run a spy specialist in each city. Thil will help your economy, and getting more espiaonage points (the great spy isn't endless). Representation gives your happiness in your biggest cities, so that will help with that problem too.

Personally, I prefer a SE economy. Gets you lots of GPP's. Maybe a hybrid is warrented here. Make a few cottage cities to pay for the rest, and SE's to research, and generate GPP's.

For your tech path, I think CoL should be a priorty if no ones discovered it you. You don't have a religion yet, and you won't for a long time. Religion and temples give happiness, so there's more ways to encourage some vertical expansion.
 
You should definitely go for Representation over Hereditary Rule. Why?

- Representation gives a happiness boost in a limited number of cities. In fact, in all your cities (for the short term).

- In fact, Representation will boost happiness in all your cities by 3, which I'm guessing is at least as much as you'd get (in the short term) from Hereditary Rule.

- So, in the short term, Representation gives you everything you'd get from HR... and more. So it's the obvious pick. Doubling the effect of scientists and making spies a viable research option is only a bonus.

EDIT: I'm not saying you should necessarily go for a SE, though. You've got some good cottage land. I just think you should be in Rep with Spies/Scientists to keep your research going while the notoriously slow CE gets started.
 
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