Many Leaders Game 5 - One City Challenge

Well, I was chasing Liberalism and tried to get more of those Natioonal Wonders. Built the Heroic and National Epic during my set. Gilgamesh gifted me his spare iron...



I checked frantically every turn for possiblilities of an AI - AI war. But Monty was in WHEOOH mode again...



Same with Ragnar. Here I hoped he would declare on Monty...



Sure enough Monty comes for me again...



...and next turn Ragnar joins the fun.



Both AI rally with ridiculous stacks for my city. I'm doomed.



I make a Medic III GG Musket just for fun, it won't matter anyway.



As Ragnar is first in turn oder, he is the one to conquer me...



Well, a nice end. Couldn't have been better...

Imhotep

Hah.... THANK GOD i'm not the only one to lose. I was seriously thinking i was a major noob when i lossed. Unlucky you got both Monte and Ragnar on your back.

Ah, how unfortunate. The AI declared before you can go into units-spamming mode.

Actually, I think Imhotep had a good stack of defenders. I think the problem is still the siege engines. There is still no counter to it. You may have a CGIII super defender, and killed all the siege without scratching. But then all the other defenders will be at 1.0/6.0 health. So, once your CGIII super defender fall under the combined wrath of 10 knights, you are left with zero healthy defenders.

Thus effectively, you are gonna to rely on only one defender, which is ridiculous. IMHO, there should be a promotion which protects a defender from any collateral damage. I know Drill gives -25% less collateral damage, but that is not enough. The attacker just have to bring more sieges. I suggest something like this: a combination of Charge (open this to archery/gunpowder units as well!), Drill and CG should give a defender 100% protection from collateral damage.

You're right. Although siege has been nerfed this has only led to the fact that the AI brings even more siege to the battle. Both Ragnar and Monty were showing up with 15+ siege units besides the other units - and that is enough to bring down any city. Flanking and Charge would be another solution, but you'll need a lot of sufficiently strong mounted units for that - which I simply had not.

Well if i was playing a game with toku - native america, i would've made a couple dozen of those cg III archers, upgrade them to longbowmen and defend succesfullly. (i have tons of experience of that in Teamer games )

What with the holiday break, I've spent a bit of time giving some thought to how to proceed in this game. I made some moves in the last round. The result being that I'm a bit behind the curve.

Montezuma has too much on his hands, at the moment. And I have no reason to believe that I am not the object of his "affection". I've certainly got the tech advantage on him; and I'm not too concerned about him assaulting my city now that I have Grenadiers for defense. I do find his parading War Elephant troublesome, though. Gilgamesh threw several War Elephants, in addition to his Horse Archers, at me during the Sumerian war.

Thus I've decided to chase Rifling as the free Liberalism tech. I'm going to need to pick up Feudalism, Guilds, and Banking before I can research Replaceable Parts. I'm one turn away from Printing Press at the start of this round. So I start things off by trading Civil Service to Ragnar in exchange for Feudalism.

After learning PP on the first turn, I was hoping to be able to trade for Guilds. But alas, these backwards AI I have for trading partners means that I will have to research the rest of the techs on my own ...

And for the first 5 turns, everything was going quite well. And then this ...



He's had a stack of troops in his iron city ever since we signed a peace treaty from the first war. I'd been checking to see if he had his hands full. Since he never did, I wasn't too worried about all those troops. Bad mistake.



The War Elephants and Horse Archers aren't too troubling. I surely don't like the looks of those 10 Catapults, though. But, I've got a few cats of my own! I put a dent in his stack from a forest and waited for his counter on the IBT. And then all of a sudden, Gil is down to 3 jumbos and a cat!

But wait, look what's shown up on my other border! There are so many troops, they don't all fit on the screen!



Looks like he'll be declaring next turn ... And I think I might be dead meat this time. But then the totally unexpected happened ...



His troops stepped into my borders! It appears that the object of his affection is somebody else, after all! And sure enough, Monty would later end up declaring on Gilgamesh.

And jeez, Monty has a lot of troops! No way would I have survived. With Replaceable Parts coming in, I decided to pause and rethink my strategy. I'd been building nothing but troops and my expenses are starting to climb. For the moment, Liberalism was safe. I decided to research Economics first (I need the free Great Merchant!) with an eye towards researching Steam Power and taking Assembly Line as the free tech.

I also decided to revolt to Org Religion and Serfdom in an effort to get some more infrastructure in place. Finally got around to finishing the Globe Theatre, built a Bank and a Grocer, as well. And finished research in Steam Power, only to discover that Assembly Line requires Corporation (rather than Economics). No way that I can put off the war that long.

So, I went ahead and finished off the 1 turn that I had remaining on Liberalism.



I then revolted back to Theocracy and began production of Riflemen in my city. Research was set to Nationalism, on the road to Assembly Line

With Monty pounding on Gilgamesh, I was finally able to work out a peace treaty ...



And thus ended the Second Sumerian War. Based upon the number of Aztec troops crossing my lands, I doubt there will be a third. I'm a bit worried about my own war with Monty, though. I'm not sure that paltry few Riflemen will be enough against the ~100 units that Monty has.

And then that scurvy dog stole from me!



This could only mean one thing ... WAR!



This time, its for real! But by doing this, I would effectively have myself a two front war. His fresh troops will be coming in from the west, while I have cut off his experienced troops in Sumeria.

In addition to the stolen Gunpowder tech, Monty has acquired Military Tradition and has access to Curissairs. He would shortly get Gilgamesh to capitulate.

My bonehead move of the game ...



Lose both of my only Workers the same turn that he pillages my cattle. Later on the SOB would poison my water supply. Urgggghhhhh!!!!



Boy howdy, that National Park is looking mighty good right about now. Anyway, I retaliated by razing a city. Made me feel a little bit better. And by firing all of my specialists, I would not lose any pop. They would get hired back slowly as the poison wore off.

And as the round came to a close, I would find myself with a case of one-more-turn-itis. Why, you might ask? Because Monty has finally gotten around to sending his Sumerian SOD to my doorstep:



Hopefully he will attack my outpost on the next turn. Honestly, I'm not sure that I'll be able to win this game. Even though I'm able to turn out 1-turn Riflemen, my only real defense is in this fort. Monty has a lot of obsolete troops, but quantity can defeat quality in this game.

I'm 5 turns away from Assembly Line and fielding Infantry. After that I'll be heading towards Artillery.

I'd bagged Rifling from Liberalism (score me nul points for originality) and upgraded by Muskets. Hadn't finished Globe and was working on Nationalism, but figured I had enough advantage for that not to matter in the early stages of the war. I found that I needed to get more siege to get those cultural defences down. Lost a fair few Rifles to elite LBs: damn that Protective trait!




I hope there not coming to see me as I don't think they remembered the chocolates I asked Raggy to fetch me. He's in WHEOOH, but seeing as Moonty DoWd him, and that I blagged fish from him 5 turns ago, I'll be OK.

Sure enough, it's Monty. And as the Sumerian campaign is all but done (thanks to Steel and trebs) I say OK to Raggy when he comes a-knocking:



Sadly, Monty has Rifles so this ain't gonna be no cakewalk.



A logical time to end this round.

Actually, Asoka is Raggy's vassal so I *need* him to settle down that strip and break free again, so I can him without bringing in Ragnar.

Ah, first time I see an AI stealing tech. Did you station a spy in Thebes for counter-espoinage? A good decision to turn around and declare on Monty after he declared on Gilgamesh. Good luck. But meanwhile, what is Ragnar doing?

Great job sending Gilgamesh to Silverkor ... I am surprised to read that you haven't built the globe. How did you managed to grow to size 15 then?

Brilliant plan on giving Asoka the free reign of ex-Sumerian land in order for him to break free! Although that might prolong the game, but meanwhile you still have Monty to take care of anyway. What I am worried of is that Monty may also capitulate to the Vikings ... making it a 3-vs-1 situation.

Size 15? The power of CHM for plus 3 happy with a monument. Ivory and a Market also helped, and I read it's best to avoid Globe until you really need it in OCC to minimize Artist birthrate.

Monty capitulating? I doubt it: he has a big tech lead on Raggy, so I'll be the one knocking him down a peg or two, whlist he 'wins' the war against vikings. I hope to knock out a key city or two (maybe his capital?) but I'll need to have Infantry to finish the job.

I don't really know the mechanics of AI's capitulation decision, but what I fear is you are too successful against Monty, forcing Monty to perceive himself as losing the game, thus capitulating to one of the parties at war with. Since Monty is almost certainly bigger than you are, it will not capitulate to you but Ragnar. Just my speculation though, as I said, I don't really know the mechanics (and too lazy to figure it out from the SDK).

I turned research down to 40% and hired 12 Merchants. This will allow me to upgrade 1 cannon to arty every turn. Even at that, Im doing allmost 500 beakers a turn.


Turn 251--->Razed Ragnars city of Libyan. I hope i wont regret this, but I need to keep both Monty and Ragnar busy while i concentrate on Gilly. Monty goes to war with Ragnar for Education.


Turn 253--->I keep having to readjust specialist to make units in 1 turn. I hire more engineers when the overflow wont make a unit in 1 turn. Its micromanagement at its finest. Ill get more production from a factory down the road.


Turn 259--->I get my woody medic. Ill be making 1 for each stack. Its 25% healing


260--->GS...settled...look at the free XP's coming my way


That "free XP' stack made this


262--->GG...saved for another secondary stack medic
265--->Razed Zimbir of Gilly
268--->Assembly line in, research turned off for upgrades, Fascism selected, Factory qued up.
271--->Main Gilly stack is upgraded and ready to head out. Im hoping my woody rifleman wont defend...factory done.


272--->Monty makes peace with Ragnar. Ill start making his stack now. Hes got rifles...

I better hurry. Still making 1 unit a turn even without a Mil Academy, so it wont be long.

274--->GE born....Im gonna do something i rarely do and use him on the Pentagon saving me 8 turns...8 turns is 8 units. Gillys backup/cleanup smaller stack is rdy to head out.


275--->Fascism in, Electricity is next. The free GG is saved for a medic for Monty's stack.
276--->GE finishes Pentagon...raze UR from Gilly
278--->I build an antitank medic. He can get woody 3 and hopefully he wont defend. He will still attack the next to last defender and win though.


283--->Raze Gilly's city Kish and get a GG. Ragnar has a stack heading my way. I dont wanna slow the Gilly war down, so i make peace with him. You can also see in the screenshot 2 workers making rails.


I just now notice a forest has grown on that last plot. Thatll put me at 9 free specialist. I hire all scientist now. I dont need the extra money or production.
284--->Raze Bad Tibra from gilly. Electricity in, Industrialism next for jarheads. I start building airships for Monty
288--->Raze Uruk, Gilly's capitol...he wont capitulate yet. Im checking every turn, but itll prolly be his last city.


289--->GMerchant...settled. Ive got 4 airships now and a decent stack. Im not quite rdy, but i go ahead and declare on Monty. My butt cheeks tightened and i think a little pee came out when i did. I have no idea what kind of SOD he will send. I use the airships right away to reach out and touch a few units.


291--->I raze a small city of Monty's. I still havent see a SOD yet.

292--->Raze another Gilly city. Industrialism in, Combustion next.

293--->Raze another gilly city. He has 1 left now and he Capitulates. I gift him 1 Infantry and 1 Machine gun. I plan on sending my 2 Gilly stacks to Asoka and Ragnar. Gilly will need units to defend with. I raze another city from monty this turn. Had a pic of it and its gone. He gave me Mil Tradition and Divine Right as well.

294--->I go ahead and declare on Ragnar and his vassal Asoka. Ive got 1 stack in Gilly's last city to help defend the initial assault. I gift Gilly Steel, 500 cash, and my extra resources.

296--->Monty finally sends a "free XP" stack. I hit it with airships and arty, then clean it up.


I start to go into Asokas lands and notice that Ragnar is sending a monster stack. I retreat 1 tile and wait.


297--->His stack will either attack me or head into the desert. Either way, I win.

298--->he attacked me, lost alot. Industrialism in, Plastics next. Thatll give me power for my factory

300--->Ive got 2 stacks, both about the same heading to Asokas last 2 cities.


Ive got 1 stack that is heading to Monty. Im making his cleanup stack now.


I dont forsee any surprises from here on out. It should be about 40 turns to completion. More if monty is stubborn.



The Save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/97311/Shaka_AD-1860.CivBeyondSwordSave

I love your medic warrior with your attacking stack. He'll never be top defender that's for sure

You'll certainly be the only one with Moai Statues as a National Wonder. It is a bit odd though that you're nbot working the plains hill and workshop, are you trying to grow quickly?

Well done on eliminating Gilgamesh You didn't consider two-fronting the war and taking on Asoka then Ragnar?

Your scouting has been excellent

The next IBT will be interesting. That's one hell of a stack Monty has. If he attacks your fort you should be OK but 6 trebs might cause a bit of collateral. I found in my game the AI couldn't resist the fort (mine is in the same position). If it does get hairy at least he'll talk peace and you can wait until you get infantry and trample him again.

Bad luck mate . If it happened a few turns later, you may have been able to scrape out of it with rifles.

Ah cossacks, my favourite unit. They have been nerfed with every release of Civ IV but they still rock with the 50% against mounted.

Good to see someelse playing Always War here as well.

Any reason for stagnating Moscow and the unimproved tiles?

That's a weird looking rifle he says, standind behind his very own warrior guardian .

I think the two front war is the way to go. Have fun with the Artillery.

Like Immy, the wars just came at bad moments and never ended. Bad luck and well done on playing it out.

Any ideas why Monty has got Cuirassiers and War Elephants paired up trampling ove your east and why you have a (very) confused missionary wandering the war zone

And lastly, whose hands has Monty had enough of

Another to have fun with Artillery

As has been noted, great luck with the coal and forest spread.

Monty will be fun with his Cuirassiers as well.

In the last week I've thought hard and long about a plan for this turnset. After much agonizing, I've come up with something. Kill everyone. Giving a little hint away, I actually failed in my plan but you'll have to read through to see how.

First IBT, as predicted, Ragnar's stack suicides against my fort.

Great Scientist merged.



Monty's explorer comes a calling.



GG merged.



I decide to divert research from Artillery slightly to get Biology first.

Ragnar has his first city go down.



The same turn Monty has his last.



Useless event.



The worst event in the whole game.



Twice in two turns.



While we're in revolt, I switch to Caste System to stop this farce.

Gilgamesh doesn't learn from previous mistakes. I swear that fort is like a flame to a moth.



He does however start to produce Curassiers which are trickier than anything else so far and rifles and cavalry arrive on the scene soon after.

I use a GE to rush Taj Mahal for quick Artillery production.



At last, someone shows some sense.



And Gilgamesh gets partizan rifles.



On turn 300, he just has 2 cities left and I have troops outside both, so we continue for just one more turn.













All in all a fun game. I had never before attempted a OCC conquest victory and enjoyed in immensely. Doesn't take up too much time.