Views from a new player

Hey I downloaded your mod, bieng a huge fan of WH and liking the Civ3 version and I just thought I would share my views and Ideas with you.

Firstly I think you have done a very good job, I like where it is going and think it has huge potential, I would love to help in any way I can, but I suck at coding so I am only really good for ideas and discussion. (sorry chaps) However I do have a lot of time for playtesting (student on holiday, and you thought we were lazy during the semester!) and if pointed in the direction of a tutorial could try to learn to make some 2d graphics to replace those placeholders.

Now I got very confused over the tech tree, it going down as well as across makes it very difficult to see what I nead to research and where everything goes, maybe making it neater and tidier would work better?

Also the were a lot of buildings, I personaly liked the suggestion of rolling sevoral of them together into Districts and Guilds, which would be far more realistic as well as simpler and easier to understand. Also it would mean taking on less work to begin with and a higher chance of a finished off, ready to release version.

Also just because they are into Districts and Guilds doesnt mean their importance in the game would be played down at all. If you would like me to compile a large list of ideas for them I would be happy to do so.

Also the turn lags are very high, again I read an idea to turn it into more like Rhyes, (which I see is what was agreed on?) I think this is a brilliant idea and I was wondering which map is the more current version/ the one you would use, so that I could play on that.

I know this is a lot to put in one post but I also thought I would say that keeping it fairly simple to understand would help people to 'get into it' and so far the tech tree and building are what puts me off playing more.

Finally if the is any version of private beta, you would like playtested an extra 6+ hours a day please point me to the link

Thank you for your imput, we need to understand what the aspiring new player has in mind when they first play the mod. Those are perhaps the most invaluable insight in a creation process.

Now if i could direct your sight to a few things:

the last post of this thread has a link to a proposed tech tree cooked up by me and PH http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=250187&page=2

This was an attempt by the two of us to simplify the tech tree and to make it more coherant

some imput on its effect and how it would flow would be extremely welcome

As for the Rhyes idea it was approved but there have been some difficulties in actually putting it together but me and PH should probably start working on it soon...

Any other suggestions on the content or possible additions we could make to the mod would be most welcome

yes, the average players first impression of the mod is definately one of the most important things in a mod.

Rhys is a definate for this mod, but will be worked in later. the map we will be using for the first Rhyes conversion is Solwens worldmap i believe.

If you would like me to compile a large list of ideas for them I would be happy to do so.

Click to expand...

yes, please do. any ideas are needed i nthe buildings department

For each quarter we could have three levels each requiring a technology and a minimum population to build with the guild requiring a higher population than its quarter and either the same technology or its own technology.

Each level would require the previous level and would unlock a guild to give futher bonuses.

Now here is when I thought they would become available. I will look at the technology tree and see where each could fit in:

First Quarter = Early Tech, No pop limit
First Guild = Early Tech, Pop>3
Second Quarter = Middle Tech, Pop>5
Second Guild = Middle Tech, Pop>7
Third Quarter = Late Tech, Pop>12
Third Guild = Late Tech Pop>15

I figured that Warhammer is very much a Feudal Society, with farmland and large cities; this building system would reward larger cities leading to a more Feudal Society than the usual cottage spam.

Governmental Quarters - Corruption (level 3 could require a palace?)
The Merchants Quarters - Happiness, healthiness and Trade
City Defences - Espionage & defence
Naval Quarters - Trade + improved sea tiles
Builders Quarter (change to Industrial Quarter) - Production
Soldiers Quarters - Military
Financial Quarters - Money
Religious Quarters - Culture and Happyness
Magic - Science
Foriegn and Breeders don't really fit in with the rest
Three levels of Sewage Systems could help healthyness.

Also for Government run Guilds I put an increase maintenence cost for as the government would have to pay for them.

Governmental Sector


Merchent Quarter

City Defences

Naval Quarters

Builders Quarters

Soldiers Quarters

Magic Quarters

Breeders Quarter

Banking Quarters

Religious Quarters


Sewage Level 1, 2 & 3 would be needed to combat unhealthiness however no guilds should be attached to them

Also to help the Lizardmen in jungle terrain:
Spawning Quarters

Similar buildings could also be used to help Chaos become more aggressive.

Also the Dark Elves Unique Guild could be a Slaves Breeding Ground increasing city growth and/or spawing slave workers

Possible technology requirements for the Quarters based on the technology tree you linked me too:


Not I have tried to make trade routs more important as if we keep it a long time before sea trade routs can take placethis will give the old world a large commercial advantage with its many civs close together capable of building roads to each other.

i actually think that the method you say above is the best suggestion for the quarters ive seen. and then each civ could have their own racial specific sectors and guilds. (although i think Guilds were going to be implemented through corporations, so perhaps a different term for Guilds? unless you have an idea for coproprations too )

perhaps each level of the different quarters could be given different names to add flavour. ie City Defences 1, 2 & 3 could be Walls, Watch Towers, Heavy Fortifications (or some such)

perhaps an additional quarter, for beasts and such could be the Breeding Sector? and have a Hunters Guild, Tamers Guild and Beastmasters guild?

the sectors and guilds would obviously become more expencive accordingly wouldnt they?

Would units require certain quarters or guilds to be built?

(sorry if this makes no sense, its like 12:30AM here so im knackered )

Thanks for those ideas Kai, theyre great, keep em rolling

The quarters would become more expensive accordingly.


As for the names I thought Merchants Quarter Level 1, Merchants Quarter Level 2 or Small Merchants Quarter, Medium Merchants Quarter etc. would keep it very simple and tidy (although I prefer the levels so you dont have a small, medium and large merchants quarter in the same city) and as we are trying to lure new players in the easier it is to understand the better. This could be offset with a very detailed civipedia entry describing all the lovely new buildings you are adding to your city *.

Although adding more flavour for the city defences sounds like a good idea as those would be fairly straight-forward anyway and they aren't really 'Quarters' as such.


About flavouring them for civs, I thought we could set one up for everyone with an old world theme in order to get the system up and running and playable as quickly as possible. Then do one for each major culture group and get that up and playable and then finally do ones for those civs we feel are not represented well enough with them.

So after the old world was done we could do a Chaos group, then an Eastern group, an elven group, etc... Then when they are done change them for Brettonia, for the Kurgan, for Nippon, for the Wood Elves, etc...

This way we would have a playable version that people would like to test as quickly as possible and still have more flavour available for the finished result. Also it won't be any more work or take any longer than trying to do the whole thing at once.


I will come up with a beast line if you want as well and add it to my previous post (so they are all in the same thread).


Requiring certain guilds or quarters to build certain units sounds like a very good way of limiting the better units and getting a more varied army out of the AI (for example, cannons requiring the engineers guild). However I would rather leave this up to you as I have not looked at the units for all the civs in any great depth yet.


Guilds for corporations does sound interesting, however how about having them as freelance guilds to compare with the state owned guilds of the cities? A good civipedia entry could explain this too. Oh and have you considered incorporating Sevopedia? However, maybe if the freelance guilds and the Sevopedia are missed out for the time being and added in later? I really do think having a playable 1.0 version out quickly would really help draw people to the mod.

Oh and I just wanted to say I was dead impressed with the religions

*I will help with the Civipedia for the buildings if you wish.

Edit, I was thinking of changing the Merchants Sector to Happiness and Trade Ruite Bonuses and adding a Banking and Law Quarter, for the money bonuses and maintenence reductions.

Ok I might add a foriegn Quarter to the second post if thats ok.

Also I have been rethinking the names for the Quarters and maybe it is bettter to give them more interesting names along the lines you mentioned PL.

Also I dont know how this would work, but how about the Foriegn Quarter allow the production of units that would usually require Iron, to those without Iron for a higher cost?

Like:
Level 1 - DoW Spearmen
Level 2 - DoW Axemen
Level 3 - Dow Swordsman

Halflings Guild
Spawns a halfling Unit? Needs the Moot? Extra Commerce?

Gnomes Guild
Current Gnome Factory? Could we create a Gnomes resource for it?

We could add a few to this one and create 'races' resources so depending on what groups of people you have you could build different ones, to make it different from the other

How about the foreign quarter allowing buying of 'mercenary' units?
(units that are available for building by other civs or maybe any units that were killed.)
It could be implemented as small events with a unit of [civ-adjective] unittype offering their services for [unitvalue].
(maybe force-triggered by building 'recruitment posters', req.writing+money)
(maybe only units from known civs apply regularly, unknown civ-units should prove more rare.)

This idea may be better fitted as a Warriors' Guild perk.

--
Regiments of reknown should be offered by event too.
(in the right era and such.)
--

foreign quarter:
National
-increased trade and relations with any civ that has a presence in your empire.
local
-increases intelligencepoints production in city.
-increases success for enemy spy attacks in city.

--
Does anyone have ideas on the visual implementation?
I mean putting the respective grouped guild buildings in the right spots (quarters) in a city?

Your idea for the Foriegn Quarters sounds pretty good. Whats you view on the names?

I vote for flavourfull names, ideally customised for each civ.

as long as they correspond to the effects generated by the -quarter/-guild/-pit/-site/-building.
The help text would be very important in explaining.
"This increases the 'X-industry' in this city to level Y.
Level Y 'X-industry' allows this and that and gives such a bonus to another thing." in this city.
(the concept of quearters needs to be included too)

level 1: market square
level 2: merchants quarter
level 3: Financial sector

small medium large doesn't sound good.
early, established, substantial
industrytype- square/quarter/sector
...

-Keep quarter-types as simple as possible, only for large inter-related industries. Allowing early specialization of cities.
(the big industries in civ are: trade, food/health, population, religion, military, espionage, research. magic/mystic. diplomacy)
-a quarter allows some related buildings to built more cheaply in the city, many buildings can have the quarter as a prereq.
-race specific buildings/sites, such as breedingpits etc will likely fit into any of these categories (military most likely).
-quarters only arise in developed cities, so I suggest that a quarter has an early building as prerequisite.
barracks - military
market - merchants quarter
etc.

Each city will have a central governmental sector, this includes city defences, tax and law and other things that are central to the way a city functions and is tied to the empire. (the things that raise a city above the status of towns)
military often have a seperate sector to the governmental, the bigwigs don't like to mix with those raw-faced foulmouthed millitiamen nor do they enjoy the sounds and smells of an active military-industrial complex. (smithies/stables/barracks etc.)
In some fantasy cities the barracks are in the same sector as the government, but usually only the palace-guard barracks.
Food/health I think is also a governmental task.

Perhaps some quarters should not be buildable, but a 'reward'.
maybe if health is low or corruption is high, a 'paupers quarter' or slum will be forcibly built, some civics such as slavery may force this too.
A thieves'guild would require a slums.

slums: increased population growth, increased unhealth.
increased possibility of riots (population more volatile)
Allows building of cheap 'infantry' or 'villains' or 'slaves'.
Cheap, but easilly destroyed units are less an asset in CIV4 than in WHFB, so maybe a productionbonus on all groundunits would be more applicable.

hehe. I just had a funny thought: undead-quarter.
a building:
Death-factory: -3health, each turns one population into a zombie population. undead population does not eat food. one zombie generates 2production.
charnelhouse: for each graveyard in the world, add 1 production to this city.

Governmental Quarters - Corruption (level 3 could require a palace?)
The Merchants Quarters - Happiness, healthiness and Trade
City Defences - Espionage & defence
Naval Quarters - Trade + improved sea tiles
Builders Quarter (change to Industrial Quarter) - Production
Soldiers Quarters - Military
Financial Quarters - Money
Religious Quarters - Culture and Happyness
Magic - Science
Foriegn and Breeders don't really fit in with the rest
Three levels of Sewage Systems could help healthyness.

You are right though this would really help with city specilisation. Although I saw this as a way to replace many of the buildings, so except possibly the Waystone I think we should replace all the building with Guilds and Sectors.

I do really like you idea for the names, Square, Quarter the Sector sounds perfect.

Also if you could require resources to be in the radius to build a unit then you could have like Brewers Guild's (requiring Barley in radius) or a Goldsmiths Guild etcetra. That would give bonuses to cities near these resources.

EDIT; I have updated my second post.

About flavouring them for civs, I thought we could set one up for everyone with an old world theme in order to get the system up and running and playable as quickly as possible. Then do one for each major culture group and get that up and playable and then finally do ones for those civs we feel are not represented well enough with them.

Click to expand...

Agreed

Guilds for corporations does sound interesting, however how about having them as freelance guilds to compare with the state owned guilds of the cities? A good civipedia entry could explain this too. Oh and have you considered incorporating Sevopedia? However, maybe if the freelance guilds and the Sevopedia are missed out for the time being and added in later? I really do think having a playable 1.0 version out quickly would really help draw people to the mod.

Click to expand...

hmmm, interesting, although all the guilds may get confusing for the players. but, as you say, a flavourful and good civilopedia will sort that. ive never used sevopedia.

Oh and I just wanted to say I was dead impressed with the religions

Click to expand...

Thats thanks to Ploep's hard work we need to work on temples and stuff too. (perhaps we can have different 'guilds' in the religious sector according to the religions present in the city?)

Also I dont know how this would work, but how about the Foriegn Quarter allow the production of units that would usually require Iron, to those without Iron for a higher cost?

Click to expand...

not so sure about this, but it could certanly be useful for mercenaries and DoW. if a civ has access to the Moot Unique Feature they could build halflings from the Foreign quarter. i dont like the gnomes idea though.

Does anyone have ideas on the visual implementation?
I mean putting the respective grouped guild buildings in the right spots (quarters) in a city?

Click to expand...

well i was actually thinking about that last night, i need to work on my ideas though before i post them

level 1: market square
level 2: merchants quarter
level 3: Financial sector

Click to expand...

this is a nice idea, i like it

slums: increased population growth, increased unhealth.
increased possibility of riots (population more volatile)
Allows building of cheap 'infantry' or 'villains' or 'slaves'.
Cheap, but easilly destroyed units are less an asset in CIV4 than in WHFB, so maybe a productionbonus on all groundunits would be more applicable.

Click to expand...

interesting, but would need some refining i think. why would having slums allow yo uto build extra units?


Great job guys, this is really coming along

Foreign could be capital only and force-built at the first-open borders pact. limiting the capital's tendency to be a a super jack of all trades and forcing it to focus more on government and security.

I think breeders would be a millitary industry, maybe commercial or food, but in WHFB terms mostly millitary. Just stables for non-horses basically.

slums allow you to press-gang peasants who are out of options, food and beer. That's why I thought it would be cool to have foot-troops cheaper.

All my ideas need refining.
My mind is very chaotic right now... must be all that distilled warpstone liquor I've been consuming.

a new unit something like militia rabble could be interesting for slums.

Can you guys look at the Quarters in the second post as I have updated them and see what you think? Other than adding a Foreign Quarter I think that is all we should have, (dont want too many). I think the Square, Quarter, Sector works best as the upgrade line. Except for the City Defence, which would work well with Walls, Towers and Heavy Fortifications, and the Governmental Quarter wich I thought could go City Hall, Administration Center, Houses of Government or something like that, because 'government sector' sounds wrong to me.

Now as for ideas for Guild resaurces within the city radius how about;
Iron - Blacksmiths Guild
Gold - Goldsmiths Guild
The Moot - Halflings Guild
Barley - Innkeepers Guild
Horses - Stablemans Guild

Any more Ideas?

i just noticed ther eis no building in this design (other than religious ones) for culture.

Governmental Sector

Spoiler :

Governmental Sector level 1, 2 &3
-25% maintenence each

Departments instead of Guilds could take care of the other effects.

Prison Sector
+10% maintenence
-25% war weariness
+2 happyness
+2 espionage (why?)

Legal Department
-25% maintenence
+1happyness

Palace Gardens
+4 Culture, +25% Culture

Click to expand...

other than my changes in Red the governmental sector is good.

Merchent Quarter

Spoiler :

Merchent Quarters Lv1, 2 and 3
+1 trade route each
Level 3, also + 1 health per land food resource

Merchents Guild
Requires Merchent Quarters Lv 1
+1 Happiness for each luxury resource
+1 gold

Thieves Guild
Requires Merchent Quarters Lv 2
+10% Maintenence +50% Gold +1 Unhappiness

Seamstress' Guild
Requires Mechent Guild Level 3
+10% Gold +3 Happiness +1 Unhealthiness

Click to expand...

also good. could we make Seamstresses Guild grant +1 happy from sheep (for wool), silk, dyes, cows (for leather), and cotton instead of a flat +3 happiness?

City Defences

Spoiler :

City Defences 1, 2 & 3
+25% City Defence Each

City Watch
Requires City Defence 1
+2 Espionage Points
-25% Maintenence +2 Happiness

Spies Guild
Requires City Defence 2
+4 Espionage
+25% Espionage

Assassins Guild
Requires City Defence 3
+8 Espionage Points
+50% Spy Interception Chance
-50% chance of revolt

Click to expand...

also good

Naval Quarters

Spoiler :

Naval Quarters 1, 2 & 3
1 = +1 food on water
2 = +1 commerce on water
3 = +1 commerce (or production?) on water

Guild of Fishmongers
Requires Naval Quarters 1
+1 Health & +1 Happiness from Sea Resources

Traders Guild
Requires Naval Quarters 2
+1 Trade Routes, +50% Income from trade routes

Naval Guild
Requires Naval Quarters 3
+10% Maintenance
Ships get +4 Experience

Click to expand...

good

Industrial Quarters

Spoiler :

:
Industrial Quarters 1,2 & 3
+25% Production

Workers Guild
Requires Industrial Quarters 1
Certain resources provide +1 Production (Iron etc...)

Builders Guild
Requires Industrial Quarters 2
+25% Faster Buildings
(can rush buildings at the cost of population?)

Engineers Guild
Requires Industrial Quarters 3
Siege Weapons Build +50% Faster with +4 Experience

Click to expand...

good

Soldiers Quarters

Spoiler :

Soldiers Quarters 1, 2 & 3
1 & 2: +2 Experience to land units Each
3: +25% Military Unit Production

Soldiers Guild
Requires Soldiers Quarters 1
+5% maintenence
Free city defence promotion

Militias Guild
Requires Soldiers Quarters 2
+5% maintenence
Can Draft 1 unit per turn from this city

Captains Guild
Requires Soldiers Quarters 3
+5% maintenence
Free captain promotion to units trained in city
(Captain would be +25% Experience earned from combat)

Click to expand...

also good

Magic Quarters

Spoiler :

Magic Quarters Lv 1, 2 & 3
+25% Science

Aprentices Guild
Requires Magic Quarters 1
+2 Experience to Mages

Alchemist Guild
Requires Magic Quarters 2
+2 free Sages (there the new scientists right? yeh) +2 Unhealthiness

Mages Guild
Requires Magic Quarters 3
+2 Experience to Mages, +4 Science, Mages built 25% faster. +1 unhappyness

Click to expand...

Breeders Quarter

Spoiler :

Breeders Quarter 1, 2 &3
+25% Chance of capturing Beaststo units in the city (not sure how the mechanic works so this may be overpowered. How about 15%?)---
this wont work. only units can capture animals, not buildings.

id suggest -15% production time for Recon units at level 1 and 3, and then +1 hammer from cow, sheep, pigs, horse resources at level 2

Horse Masters Guild
+5% maintenence
+4 Experience to cavalry units trained here

Beast Trainers Guild
+5% maintenence
+2 exp to beast units
Grants the promotion that allows animals to be captured to recon units.


Beast Masters Guild (not sure about the name)
+5% maintenence
+2 exp to beast units
Grants the promotion that allows beasts to be captured to recon units. beasts build 15% faster, +1 unhappyness

Click to expand...

not so great. looking at the ammount of maintenance each building adds there will be a huge maintenance issue. ive halves the maintenance costs and it looks a bit better (although we will only tell properly in game what works best)

the dragon breeders guild needs a new name.and the beast trainers guild and the Dragon breeders guild should not spawn units. Dragons will be a national unit (only 1 at a time) and so should be built. the troll replacement units are also national units (5 at a time i believe) and als oshould be built.

Banking Quarters

Spoiler :

Banking Quarters
+25% Gold each

Bankers Guild
+5 gold

Economists Guild
+25% Gold

Accountancy Guild
+1 Trade (gold?) from each cottage, hamlet, village, town

Click to expand...

good

Religious Quarters

Spoiler :

Religious Quarters 1, 2 & 3
+1, 2 & 3 culture respectivly
+1, 2 & 3 happiness respectivly

Instead of Guilds how about Temples for each religion requiring level 1, Monostries requiring level 2 and Cathedrals requiring level 3.

Each temple Monostrie and Cathedral would have different benefits according to the religion

Click to expand...

good

as i said before, the main issues are maintenance and lack of culture. we could have an upgradable theatre (like the sewers) which adds +2 culture at each level. Auditorium -> Theatre -> Colluseum (and then an additional Bloodbowl stadium which would be tied to the bloodbowl events)

Prison Sector
+10% maintenence
-25% war weariness
+2 happyness
+2 espionage (why?)

Click to expand...

The espionage was to reflect the intterigation of political dissidents and non natives.

Merchents Guild
Requires Merchent Quarters Lv 1
+1 Happiness for each luxury resource
+1 gold

Thieves Guild
Requires Merchent Quarters Lv 2
+10% Maintenence +50% Gold +1 Unhappiness

Click to expand...

The reason the Thieves guild reduce maintenence is that you no longer have to pay people to stop theivary, you only have to ensure they stick to their quota and the guild then takes care of unlicenced theives themselves

also good. could we make Seamstresses Guild grant +1 happy from sheep (for wool), silk, dyes, cows (for leather), and cotton instead of a flat +3 happiness?

Click to expand...

The seamstresses guild was actually an inuendo for prostitutes

City Watch
Requires City Defence 1
+2 Espionage Points
-25% Maintenence +2 Happiness

Click to expand...

my thinking was that we are paying maintenence and not corruption (like civ3) so you would have to pay the watch to do their job, with maintenence.

Naval onwards I like your changes. The Theatre idea is good.

Here is a solution to maintenence:

Governmental Districs give -50% maintenence (more efficient running)

Theives and Assassins Guilds give -25% maintenance (You dont have to pay for policing as the guilds take care of much crime for free in echange for their licencing) remember its maintenence not corruption. (max total; -150%, in capital; -200%)

Then the Soldiers Guilds, the Naval Guild and the watch could Give +20% maintenence. (max total; +100%)

So a city with the first governmental distric, a thieves guild and a city watch would have -55% maintenence

This would allow cities to reduce their maintenence a lot and help specilisation as you wont build soldiers guilds in cities that wont be making units.

Well thats expanded on a concept quite nicely

Merchent Quarters



City Defences



Military Quarters carried on from above:



Religous Quarters



Banking Quarter



Ive so far suggested we cut 5...



Otherwise continue on but if you could as you did this think of ways of incorperating it into the experimental tech tree that i directed you to please do.

The espionage was to reflect the intterigation of political dissidents and non natives.

Click to expand...

ok, fair enough

The reason the Thieves guild reduce maintenence is that you no longer have to pay people to stop theivary, you only have to ensure they stick to their quota and the guild then takes care of unlicenced theives themselves

Click to expand...

The seamstresses guild was actually an inuendo for prostitutes

Click to expand...

Do you read much Raymod E Fiest? or Terry Pratchett? those ideas sound like they're based off some of Fiest's and Pratchett's stories, and i agree.
i actually suggested the exact same thing (Seamstress guild) for one of the corporations

my thinking was that we are paying maintenence and not corruption (like civ3) so you would have to pay the watch to do their job, with maintenence.

Click to expand...

True, i keep forgetting about that

Here is a solution to maintenence:

Governmental Districs give -50% maintenence (more efficient running)

Theives and Assassins Guilds give -25% maintenance (You dont have to pay for policing as the guilds take care of much crime for free in echange for their licencing) remember its maintenence not corruption. (max total; -150%, in capital; -200%)

Then the Soldiers Guilds, the Naval Guild and the watch could Give +20% maintenence. (max total; +100%)

So a city with the first governmental distric, a thieves guild and a city watch would have -55% maintenence

This would allow cities to reduce their maintenence a lot and help specilisation as you wont build soldiers guilds in cities that wont be making units.

Click to expand...

Agreed

Should not give trade routes... they will not generate anywhere near enough money... they should give a set +25% gold and even then might be to linear an increase...

Click to expand...

instead of trade routes or a monetary % there should be a flat +1 gold from the merchants quarter.

Has anyone done the maths... and found out that a grand total of +75% extra defence... on a lvl 15 city is kind of silly? considering that with a wall and a castle you have exactly the same... it would make it a downgrade more than anything...

City defences... might well have to be a special case because i personally find forts (built on tiles to be a waste of time and space...) so i see cities in a crowded old world as the more logical alternative... and i see no reason why a small city cannot have a Curtain Wall, City Wall, Citadel and Barbacians.

Click to expand...

what if there were 6 potential city defence improvements then? which add up to 120% defence? so there is a Wall -> Outer Bailey -> Inner Wall -> Towers -> Castle -> Fortress

As an aside i would far prefer that we keep away from military quarters... so cross Naval Quarter , Breders Quarter and Soldiers Quarter of the list... we can make do with a generic barracks... and a generic harbour... and a generic breeding pit or whatrever and im leaning towards saying get rid of the mages quarter and just have a generic mages building...

Click to expand...

No.

Religous quarters should probably go in favour of keeping Churches, Monastries and Catherdrals as well...

Click to expand...

your probably right in this respect, it will be easyer to diversify religions if they are out out the Quarters thing.

Banking Quarter should probably be rolled into an expanded Financial quarter... but you should only have Merchant Bankers... because Economics did not exist until Adam Smith... and Accountancy in a strict sense as a discipline did not exist until quite late as well.

Click to expand...

Financial Quarter would make better sence for the level of technology in WH. but its really just a name. the effects would remain the same.

ive been thinking on the military district

and im wondering (as is masada, we had an MSN consultation ) if making 1 military district would be better than having soldiers, beasts and naval:

Military District level 1:
+2 EXP to units built
+10%
Military District level 2:
+1 EXP to units built
+10%
Military District level 3:
+1 EXP to units built
+10%
+1 happyness from garrisoned units.

at each level of military district, the city has the option to build 1 of the following sectors (need better names):

Melee Sector:
+5% Maintenance
free combat 1 promotion to melee units

Ranged sector:
+5% Maintenance
Free city defence 1 promotion to ranged units

Mounted Sector:
+5% Maintenance
Free Flanking Promotion to mounted units

Siege Sector:
+5% Maintenance
Free Barrage 1 promotion to Siege units

Naval Sector: (on a coastal square only)
+5% Maintenance
Free Navigation promotion to naval units

Beast sector:
+5% Maintenance
Free 'Battle Trained' promotion (+15% strength, +immune to fear)