Lonely Hearts Club, BTS Edition, Chapter XII: Hannibal

[r_rolo1]

Welcome to the 12th edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one ): starting in isolation....

For the 12th game in BTS the choosed leader was Hannibal of the Carthaginians:

Spoiler:

Hannibal is a all propose leader: His fin trait allows a cottage spam and the Cha one makes war a temptation as well ( and the extra from the trait and from monuments also helps ). His UU can be used for war ( in spite of not being a top of the pop regarding that ) and his UB can makes a trade route economy verey profitable, In resume Hannibal can be used in various scenarios with more ease than other leaders...

His UU.

Spoiler:

The Numidian is a Horse archer with reduced strength and a free flanking I promo.... This is a UU for which people are very divided: they have as base a unit that some people simply hate and they are even weaker than them.... others love the fact that they can use flanking 2 ( or more ) units ( + barracks ) to soften defenses without dying ( and earning cookie XP )... Well ,De gustibus....

Regardsless of all that , I doubt that they will have much use in here ,besides taking a barb city of slaying barbs.....

His UB.

Spoiler:

The cothon is a beefed harbor that adds a extra trade to the city where it is built... that makes some players that use Hannibal to use the so called "trade route economy" ( build the Great lighthouse, maybe ToA , Harbors and costum Houses, be (somewhat )peaceful and profit from trade routes ). A well publicised example of this was the Ragnar ALC, where the S man showed exactly what you should do in a isolated start when you have bad land . With Cothons this aproach can be even stronger....

The start:

Spoiler:

To begin it is a coastal start..... some love it and some hate it, but it fits well with the UB. A lake ( love Fin lakes.... ), 2 food resources ( one seafood ... ) and woods to chop ( besides a gap in the woods... most surely a resource )

Again a small request ( not mandatory ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).



The last words are to wish good luck to all . And let the games begin!

Saves

Noble
Prince
Monarch
Emperor
Immortal
Deity

P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy

[Rusten]

Sweet, have been waiting for an opportunity to play Hannibal recently. Will have a go at the Immortal save I think, as I've been wanting to try out/experiment with corporations too.

Definitely going to be doing some serious trading this game ^_-

Edit: Beeline Astronomy for the UB along the way and über trade routes should be the way to go here.

[pawelo]

I might give this one a shoot on Emperor

[r_rolo1]

I'm thinking going emperor this time too .... A trade route economy is quite strong in isolation if you can pull it right ( all the foreign cities are in another continent, giving it a nice bonus ).... As I never made a trade route eco in a LHC in BtS, I think that I'll give it a go.

[r_rolo1]

Checkpoint 1

Spoiler:

Well, this one was fast....
Started settling in place, WB in queue and BW as tech to research ( for a while our 1st worker will not have much to do besides chopping, and we start with mining... )

1st hut gave this:

Spoiler:

Well, Hunting is in path to AH ( that we need to pasture the pigs )... could had been worse

BW came by and researched Sailing + Masonry... we're with GLighthouse open

Other huts gave xp and a map... that revealed most of the island:

Spoiler:

Well, the island is .... not that good. It has space for 2 good cottages cities, but the seafood is badly distributed and the resources are Monarchy and Calendar ones ( thank god we are Cha )... Will be a chalenge

[Snapman]

Will start this tomorrow. Am very drunk at the moment, so not reallt a good time to play

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Decided to have a go, Quickly scouted out the island.

Spoiler:

I hut for Experince, 2 remaining to get, using the scout I built to get them.

Plan for the Islandi is;

Built the Moai Statutes directly south of 'Capital, as I settled in place, for the 2 fish, lots of shared tiles, but hey...

3 Incense and pigs, will be my Designated 'wealth city'.....Hmmm might have to change wtih the cottages...too much desert

Settle on ice above marble...

Settle on river by pigs and fish, coastal to the Western side.

Settle above the Floodplains, share the fish, and make this my 'Science centre'...lots of food for those extra specialists.

Another by the bay for 2 more resources....

Proberly an inland cottage city/national parks/Globe Theatre.

Others...just settle along coast, for Cothon...Planing on building Great Lighthouse/ Collossus....

Might try the 'beeline to Astronomy' line...see how it all works out...

Now its 'Settlers spam' time

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I'm here at Check point 2, rather late I must say...1350 it was.....

Spoiler:

Met all the AI's, or at least the 6 remaining ones.........I assume that's all.

How'd I get here, beelined for Astronomy, with a side line to Literture. Dumb Dumb Dumb me, couldn't decide WHERE to build great libairy, and as a result, I lost out on it...what a waste of time and research....dumb dumb dumb.

Missed the Massuleom of M..didn't even bother with the others...

Teched Calander, beeline Optics, Traded for Alphabet with Alexander for Machinary, picked up another tech, forget what. Had 2 great Scientist waiting in wings to bulb Astromony...now I've got the Cothon's going with the Great Lighthouse and Collossus....Wooo Hooo...in green at 80% research..

Hamimurbri, has Philosphy on me..but I've now got Education, and Code of laws 2...

Other AI's had paper on me, traded optics for that, as well as construction, horseback riding, Monarchy, code of laws..and a couple other techs..paper was the biggie..got it in a straight out deal plus gold...

I've founded No religions...and plan to go to Free religion ASAP. Post liberialism..

Toying with going for Printing press, then bulb Phil with next Scientist, only 4 turns.. then Liberialism, Proberly take Nationalism, or will I try for steel at a steal..

Check point 3

Alexander, is doing what Agressive civ's do best, causing general mayhem. Shaka, is ISOLATED....and backward.

Catherine, seems to be doing well, Williem is last, below me in 2nd last..

they are 5 different religions, and as such, haven't and won't adopt one.

I'll proberly go for a space race, just beat up on shaka for the fun of it, and to have a overseas vassal to trade with.

I never settled the cities as I planned....I've jumped and chopped and changed my mind.

Only ones I did, to original plan where directly south of Carthage, settled in original location, and SE of Cathage to claim clams..

Decided Cottaged city by rivers will be my iron works city, wall street, may end up going over by the 3 flood plains, as I settled on hill to claim fish.

A screen shot of my lands, still to settle some cities

http://forums.civfanatics.com/upload...enShot0008.JPG

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

game's over with, , but you'll have to have a look to see

Spoiler:

I've lost, I was constantly declared upon by Catherine, and I'm furiously trying to catch back up in tech...I just fell asleep at the wheel.

As soon as I'd get Industrialisation FIRST, NEARLY every one else had it, so they must have been trading, even though they were all each others worst ememies.

the end came when Catherine, delclared, 1 turn early mind you, with a naval task force, that I couldn't hold out from my cities.

I failed, partly due to there being NO OIL ON LAND, NO CEREALS so my Standard ethanol corp was useless, as I had to pay through the nose to get 1resourse.

I completely forgot to build the Pentagon, but no biggie really, NO OIL ON LAND was the big killer, as such, no tanks/modern ships/planes...No real hope.

I had Catherine, Alexander and Williem, declaring on and off, each taking a turn.

I lasted till 1950's, but Gilgamesh, was going to win a space race anyway, as he had the land, the 2 mining corps, lots of resources, and NO ONE ATTACKED HIM AT ALL....

I'm sure others will suceed where I failed, I just got too cocky, and messed it all up.

Reasons for failure;

1) didn't trade enough with the techs
2) Not used to cottage economies, so just assumed I was killing them, in tech's/production.
3) Not enough defence..but how much is enough, when they punch right through 6 defenders or more...
4) didn't spam Standard ethanol to other cities, as I assumed 1 city would give access to all for resource..and hence ability to build tanks. When it didn't I didn't spam...BIG ERROR....MORE TANKS.........
5) I assumed too much, as I said, not used to normal speed/cottage economy..
6) Inability to build railroads.
7) Gilgamesh, having only 1 front, and one opponent, through out full game, enabled him to gain enough land to dominate from the 1500's, as I'm used to
I"ll reload from an earlier save...and spam Standard ethanol.
8) Just to complete my stupidity, I got blind sided with the liberialism race, I assumed I had it won, went off researching Democracy, and WHAM....Hammy gets me through, the back door, I just assumed he'd have to go through, education, and no code of laws I was safe...DUMB DUMB DUMB

I ended up building the 3 gorges damm, rushed it for cash in end..proberly didn't need to...I"ll see again...

2nd try)- I still need to cash rush 3 gorges damm, and spamming standard ethanol, allowed tanks in all cities, kept the AI, OFF me, but Gil was just too far infront, I doubt any bribing would do any good, as he had tech/military/man goods/crops leads...all from 1500's...too good for me...

Very challanging, but I wasn't up to it...well done to those who were...

[r_rolo1]

Bad luck IPEX.... but we all know how that AI is It has quite a reputation.....

[Snapman]

Monarch, Checkpoint 1

Spoiler:

Got the island mapped out really quick (only 17 turns!) due to popping a Scout from the first hut I stumbled across. The land itself seems very well suited for the Financial trait, with plenty of grassland rivers for cottaging. Should get us teching along quite nicely, I feel. But my main concern is the lack of hammers on the island. I haven't revealed Horses and Copper yet, but I'm concerned about this. My capital has three hills in it, and there a little area in the centre with three hills (sucks, because I wanted to stick to the coasts if possible). Hmmm. Looks like extensive use of the whip might be in order.

Anyway, as for wonders, I've got my eye on The Oracle (to get to Metal Casting), Great Lighthouse (should be good combined with Cothon) and if Copper is in a reasonable place - Colossus, although that one is not too important. Great Library might be worth the diversion too, if I can get the marble hooked up in time.

As for the round, I settled in place after debating a move 1NE. Then built a Work Boat and started builing a Worker. And, errr... that's it.

The hammers-challenged terrain means I might finally have a look at the likes of Watermills, Windmills, Lumbermills, Forest Preserves and the like. I normally don't pay much attention to these, but I might use this as an opportunity to experiment with them. Of course, cottages will be the main priority.

[mystyfly]

Checkpoint 1 Emperor

Spoiler:

Got my Island mapped out rather late. I found Marble quickly and hurried a Settler up there to found Utica (Carthage settled in place). My game currently is at 1000 AD, I've got Astrology, found 3/6 AIs yet (first Caravel got eaten by a Combat-2 Barb galley (I was on the coast). Cap has TGL, ToA, TGLH, MM, NE (= The Great Library, Temple of Artemis, The Great Lighthouse, Mausoleum of Maussollos, National Epic). Got quite some bad luck, I've been running Scientists in Carthage forever but got my first GS after two GMs and a GP and so delayed Astronomy quite a while (I did that sling like Sis in Ragnar-ALC). Carthage is huge GPFarm. Got my Island covered in cities, some are heavely Cottaged. Still waiting to find a way to get PRODUCTION on this island, really it IS very poor.
Made contact to Alex vie border pop and per WB to Cathy and Gil. Alex DOWd Gil recently. Tech looks good. Have some trades going (Getting stuff for all those Pigs).
However, my plan was to go for Domination, no idea if this is possible for me, I have simply no MfG...
Trade route rox: Cap gets about +9/+8/+5/+5 TR. Huge! other cities aren't that good there but still fine. Waiting for Free Market

edit: r_rolo, I think you uploaded a wrong Screenshot (showing the discovery of Sailing, I think you wanted to show us Hunting )

[Bleys]

I want to start by saying this is my very first LHC game, and I am enjoying it so much I plan to try some of the older ones as well. Here is my update:

Originally Posted by r_rolo1

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has.

Spoiler:

Trying the Monarch save, despite my relative n00bness at both BTS (only had it a week) and LHC games/strats. I am glad I did, because I would have killed it to easily on Prince. Monarch was perfect.

I will admit to 1 restart. I settled in place, then decided (once I explored a bit) that I could get an extra city in the SE by moving. I spent 2 turns going to my desired spot, which ended up not hurting me much. After exploring the island, I decided on a few city spots and started in. I was originally goint to go Myst-Poly-BW-AH, for Stonehenge, but then decided I didnt need Stoney, since it would be easy to chop/whip Monuments in my few cities. I used to love Stoney, but as I have progressed up the ladder of difficulty, I stopped building it, instead relying on CRE traits (my fav), or key Monuments in certain cities where I need the border pops.

In looking over my final city placements, I could have done better. I have a few river/grasslands not being utilized. But thats ok. Live and learn. I decided to go with the most Hybrid economy I have ever played, a Farm/Cottage thing where most of the cities rely on Slavery and Chopping for production, until I can get some solid Workshops and Watermills in place. If I had to do it again, I would make smarter choices, because some of the cities I thought would flounder ended up being amazingly good. CHA is an awesome trait for a "Whip Economy", and with all the cottaging, I was able to keep my science slider very high all game.

My capitol was especially powerful. I have gotten so much great strategy from Obsolete that I used his "whip wonders" methods a LOT. I build the Oracle (MC, immediatly whipped/chopped a Forge, popped a GE with 48% chance, and built the Mids), ToA, missed the GLighthouse by about 4 turns, got the Colossus, Shwed Paya, and Great Library all by whipping my capitol from 8 or 9 down to 5, and then having it re-grow very quickly. I settled most of my Great People pops, only bulbing a couple of them for some key techs. Since I had Myst, I was Hindu for a long time (another reason I did that was I knew I wasnt going to take CoL with the Oracle). Saddly, I got sidetracked with building and missed a couple wonders I wish I had gotten, but that was OK.

Originally Posted by r_rolo1

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Spoiler:

I met Alex first, and ended up ONLY having a minor contact with Hammi, and no one else, and thats how it was for a LONG LONG time. Once I met everyone else, I found I was nearly in last place, ugh, but had good teching and traded well, and won the Lib race (took Printing Press) by a quite a bit, I think. I then decided I needed to be ready to build an army, so I teched Nationalism, and made sure I had barracks everywhere. I held off on Astronomy, because I wanted that Colossus cash as long as possible.

Thats where I am now. I kind of suck at this "Post-Lib" part of the game, usually relying on brute force rather than any finesse/skill.

Spoiler:

I have almost no military whatsoever (1 archer in each city, and a warrior with some XP I planned to upgrade). Any tips would be helpful. Not sure I can win this, some of the AIs seem very strong, and my cities have dismal production. My plan is Rifling, Steel, and Nationalism/Police State or something, and invade whichever AI I think I can take the quickest, probably Alex, since he has been getting hit on all sides already. Not sure I can sit back and tech for a Space win, because my production is horrid, heh.

[Rusten]

Checkpoint 1-3 (Immortal):

Spoiler:

The game got a little easy, somewhat due to of luck and somewhat due to my difficulty level being set too low, should've played the usual deity. Scouted my map and had 1 hut left which revealed this:



As I hadn't placed my second city yet I rushed over to the edge of my island and placed Utica for some cottaging and contact with Greece. I had made the Great Lighthouse and obviously this led to some crazy trade routes early in the game (at a later point than what I'm telling here I got 6 routes for +/-10 commerce each in several cities, thats like 60 commerce, quite imbalanced).

Scouted the area with a work boat after my borders popped and found the remaining civs (except for 1). As our Island is hammer-low there really isn't a good foundation for a domination/conquest victory, which I love, but rather turtling to space and avoid conflict, which i really really hate. When playing a financial leader and getting all these grassland rivers you really can't avoid cottaging, it would be silly. My teach lead is extremely dominant as of 1070 AD, I could probably get infantry vs longbowmen here vs the AI's.



You can't see it from this I guess, but I am several techs ahead of what I can offer them. Already got Astronomy/printing press/liberalism etc. Also getting 400+ science per turn without free market already.

Basically I doubt there will be a checkpoint 4. I don't like playing CE, but rather a FE/specialists, and there really isn't much of a choice with this land. The remainder will probably be a long and tiresome cakewalk.

[r_rolo1]

@Bleys

Spoiler:

Not sure of how to give advice to you.... Alex looks a tempting target ( near and dogpiled in your game... ) but Shaka is a nice candidate as well ( if he's as backward as in mine game ). And BTW welcomed to the LHC

@Rusten

Spoiler:

Trade routes eco in this situations is completely OP if you can get it early, far more powerful than a CE ( it will take a loooong time until a cottage can compete with a 10+ coin trade route )... in fact I think that with the rigth settings it can more powerful than almost any SE you can get in the same terrain

Too bad that you won't finish this.... but I can understand : your game is well launched and it would be a cakewalk ( it would be fun to show a rifle vs lbow war )

@mystyfly

Oh really... will correct it ASAP if I didn't erased the pic....

@Snapman

Spoiler:

You touched a fulcral point: this island is very hammer poor.... and it comes worse: it lacks a certain ... well, don't want to spoil your game . In this game you'll need to think beyond mines, that's for sure.....

[Bleys]

For Rolo:

Spoiler:

I have changed my mind, actually, and plan to island skip from Shaka to Hammi, from there, not sure, but I also want to beeline the State Property civic tech, Communism? Cant recall at the moment, I rarely play games this far, I am one of those "tons of half-games" guys, heh

Also, forgot my save, attaching it here.

[Snapman]

Played a bit more today. Sundays, eh?

Monarch Checkpoint 2

Spoiler:

Fairly decent round. Decided to forego the Oracle and concentrate on the Great Lightouse (although as it turns out, I could still have gone for the Oracle as it wasn't built until 350BC!). Wonders are falling later than usual. It's a pity I'm not too bothered about them. Was pleased to see Copper revealed in the boundaries of the capital, meaning that it will be my main production centre. No Horses though. Dissapointing.

First two towns to be founded were Utica on the west coast, to grab the pig, fish and grassland river tiles. Hadrumetum was down in the south-west to claim the flood plains and clam. The two would be my main cottage cities, so I figured it best to get them up and running ASAP. For the rest of the towns, I've provided a screenshot below.

The only other wonder to be built was The Great Library in the capital, to help generate some Great Scientists. And also because it's great. Tried to get Cothons up in most of my towns to further increase the number of trade routes.

For the tech path, I decided to bee-line Astronomy, in the hope that I'll be able to find some uninhabited land and claim more resources before the AI has an opportunity to do so. I'll deal with Liberalism later. I managed to get Optics on turn 140, and got Astronomy on turn 148, which is around 700AD-ish. Not bad.

Met Alexander (Greece) after Hadrumetum's borders popped in 300AD. The other continent is not far away it seems. He was happy to trade techs and resources, which helped out my health and happiness. Soon after I met Gilgamesh (Sumeria), who had the largest score. Then came Willem Van Oranje (Netherlands), who as usual, was teching quite nicely and I figured would be my main rival for Liberalism, unless I ran into Mansa Musa or someone.

As soon as Optics was finished, I sent out a few Carvels to find the other civs. I found everyone's favourite backstabber Catherine (Russia), and Hammurabbi (Babylon) who seems to be universally disliked by everyone. I expect someone to declare war on him soon. The last guy I met was Shaka (Zulu) who is also in isolation, and doesn't seem to be coping too well. He's a fair bit behind in techs.

So there we go. It's now 940AD, and I'm in a race to Liberalism against Willem (I've just researched Civil Service). I'm a bit worried about the other civs. Shaka, Catherine, Hammurabbi, Alexander and Gilgamesh have all declared war on me in the past. My military at the moment is laughable, so it's a good job the others civs can't touch me yet! I'm tempted to build up an army and try and wipe out Shaka. I don't know how big his island is yet (still mapping it out), but if I get can rid of him then I'd put myself in a strong position. So yeah, I might go for an audacious naval invasion of Zululand.

Screenshot

Spoiler:

[tycoonist]

hannibal on an isolated map? you must be joking, right? my favourite leader in his best situation. awesome baby. might give this a shot on emperor...

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

This will be my 2nd effort, and a brief rant on my first

Spoiler:

What can I say, I made a beeline to Astronomy, and thought I had Liberialism in the bag, Got blindsided with Liberalism?? still not sure how, and game just fell apart after that.

NOT HAPPY JAN...not at all.......

ok in my 2nd try, I'll still settle in place, moai statutes the dual fish to the south. The floodplains in the west, I'll settle on the grass...but I miss the clam?? Hmm settle on floodplain..or grab clam...post biology farm.is a clam without the coastal gold..Hmm Great Person Farm (Great Libairy city)...settle pigs marble...and still keep my iron works city along the Grassland river to the western edge with the pigs shared. The wine will be a fine city, and I plan on my national park in the north with the tree's and trundra. Insence city x3 and shared pigs? Desert nah...miss that.

Late game spoiler

Spoiler:

Cities can get 10 gold/2 hammers in a riverside cottaged, levy induced city, . .. .. .. .. .'n IRON WORDS CITY, proberly still my Wall street city as well.

I've got to watch out on the game POST LIBERIALISM, I just keep falling off my perch 1st time, and winning 2nd try??? No DUMB PLAY EITHER. Must settle marble quickly, and spam settlers from dual fish...WAIT ON MOAI STATUTES..

wish me luck, or better game play, as I said, not a big cottage player, and Marathon speed, usually, so tech's MEAN MORE. not a 4/6 research throw away item.

[Bleys]

Alas, retired after failing Checkpoint 3. A bad plan gone worse:

Spoiler:

I decided to try and get to Shaka once I got the "news" about how little resources my island actually had! Wow, talk about POOR-MAN-LAND! But Shaka had Oil, Coal, Horses, looked good, I beat everyone to Rifling, and Shaka was still in Longbows, so I trotted my 4 whipped Galleons and 10 Drafted rifles + a couple cats on over. BAD MOVE! I got smoked behind my back by . . . who is the biggest backstabber among our opponents? Catherine . . . grrr. I knew it was coming too, and I couldnt do a darn thing about it. I had already whipped/drafted my cities into unhappiness, requiring me to jack up the culture slider just to keep em from revolting. Someone was in Emancipation, which made it worse (I also was the first to Democracy, and wouldnt give it to anyone else for a LONG time, because I didnt want some sleeping GE to pop the SoL on me)

If that wasnt enough, Shakas Pikemen were regularly beating back my Rifles! Talk about PITA, heh, just not enough siege units to wage a proper war, my bad. And his caravel pack got one of my reinforcement Galleons full of GG juiced Cannons, didnt see that coming even though I had Frigates all over his coast.

Great fun, I want to try another, but please, rolo, put SOMETHING usable on our starting island, LOL. I never even built my UU, or even bothered teching MT (I could have traded for it almost any time I wished)

NOTE: In hindsight, I went for Shaka WAY too early, I should have had an overwhelming force and rolled 3 Galleons full of cannons and rifles on each of his 3 western coastal cities, but I got impatient. Its a bad habit of mine, and I basically left myself wide open for Cathy to plunge the knife in, since I only had archers and a few scattered longbows left at home. Lesson learned, thats for sure.