From the Earth to the Moon (Challenge)

So for this challenge my plan is to try and recreate one of my personal science fiction favorites - Jules Verne's "From the Earth to the Moon". The story takes place in 1865, when a group of bored, gun-lovin' Civil War Vets decide it would be a pretty neat thing to build a cannon that can fire a round to the Moon. And that brief summary basically sums up this challenge: get to the Moon by the year 1865.

There aren't many rules to this challenge; I'm playing on Prince, and anything short of a reload is allowed so long as it gets me to my goal of finishing the Apollo Program before the 1865 deadline.The only other rule is that I can't mix and match civs and leaders in order to maximize my chances; no Pericles of Korea allowed! It's going to be hard, but I like a challenge .

In pregame planning, I debated over which would be more important: the leader or the civ. Most people seemed to agree with the idea that unique buildings aren't going to make much of a difference, so ultimately I decided to pick the best leader for the job: Elizabeth I of England. Her Philosophical and Financial traits should give me both good cottage cities as well as a GP factory, and the Stock Exchange UB comes early enough to be of some benefit. Also, there's a delicious bit of irony in using England for this challenge, since it was the dastardly English who tried to sabotage the project in the book.

Pregame talk also made me think pretty hard about what sort of techs and wonders I need to prioritize. My two big targets are Schwedagon Paya and The Pyramids for the early civic boost, but I'd also like to squeeze in the Parthenon and the Mausoleum to get the Great People popping and better Golden Ages.

So with all that on my mind, let's get to it!
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And so, our lovely lady makes her debut:



And here is our start location:



I'd normally show my first spawn area and ask people where they think my warrior and settler ought to go, but this particular map it was kind of obvious so I've gone ahead and done the first ten turns (and then two others...got caught up in the fun ).

You will notice with the initial map that I am already blessed with a good food resource and easy money. Normally I'd build a worker first thing, but I've noticed that the fields are basically split between letting your city grow or getting started on farms right away, and so for this game I'm going to wait a few turns before getting that worker started.

Founding London fogbusted a few more goodies:



With stone nearby I can relax a little bit when it comes to getting the Pyramids. So instead I'm going to focus on getting Pottery and then Writing for the time being. But first I need to grow my city, so for my first tech I'm choosing Agriculture.

I'm sure that free Scout is going to come in handy too. Cross your fingers for some free technologies.

Although I didn't include the screenshots, this challenge game I'm trying to micromanage a bit better, so I put my first laborer on that gems tile - it has decent food and great gold, and right now that Warrior I'm building isn't really a priority thanks to that free scout. This way London will grow while also supplying a few extra beakers, and once I've finished with Agriculture I can shift+click a Worker in front of that Warrior, which means that I'll be finished with that Warrior shortly after my Worker is done and have some early defense for my up and coming Settler escorts. That was a mouthful...maybe a screenshot would have been simpler haha.

Anyways, it wasn't very long until we had company:



I've never played with Ethiopia before...so any tips on how to deal with him would be appreciated.

As I predicted, that scout was indeed useful:





And while this was going on, I finished up with Agriculture:



Makes me worry that maybe Prince is too easy for this challenge to be interesting...but then again I don't want to get cocky only to fail latter on so I'll try and keep my mouth shut .

I'm still working on the dot map (between my original Warrior and the Scout I've covered a lot of turf - the map took four screenshots), so until that is done hopefully this will whet your appetite:



Obviously of concern are the lack of decent food variety and the ton of desert tiles just to my north...which leads right into what looks like open tundra. Turning this wasteland into something productive might be difficult.

And here's my initial gamesave and the 12 turns save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95430/Good_Queen_Bess_BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95430/Good_Queen_Bess_BC-3520.CivBeyondSwordSave

After looking at my close-in screenshots, the dotmap was actually a bit simpler than I had thought. This is because while there are plenty of decent spots to found a city, it makes more sense to found one close to my capital first. That just leaves the Southwest corner of the continent (since immediately to my capital's Eastside are a ton of peaks that I intend to not waste valuable early cottage tiles on), making things a bit easier for me. So here is the dotmap I came up with:



My thoughts are that my first city will either be I or II, and then III. The question is, do I want to try for better Production with the cattle and prairie hills, or go for growth with that extra floodplains tile and rice paddy? I'm personally thinking of getting the rice, which will go nicely with the Granaries I'm close to being able to build, and the worldmap shows that there are plenty of other sources of nearby cattle but only one other rice paddy that is semi-far away, and I'd rather hook up with a food resource early and then concentrate on getting that marble to the north (see the big world map in the last post) - with luck I'd have a half-price Parthenon. I'm still concerned about Ethiopia too; sure they aren't in my sights yet but I met his unit on the second (maybe third) turn so he has to be close by (I'm assuming just a bit further to the west), and getting a city in that direction could be a helpful buffer if he really does go for Rexing as his initial greeting seemed to indicate. Anyways, feel free to comment...and if you really really want to see a dotmap for the rest of the world...I suppose I could oblige if you ask nicely (even though I still think I'm in the right with settling nearby instead of further away).

Nice game so far...I'll post my dotmap a tad later.

Must say your starting position is pretty damn good.

Wish I could say that much of the rest of the map; at first glance, it looks like a fixer-upper.

Will be following this closely

Very nice idea and probably the best leaders. A few comments on the concept first
1) Land is power (I have heard that before??). DO not sit back with 6 really good cities. Set the early ones up for teching but make sure you have a military production city and take alot of other cities, especially some shrined religions. You will tech alot faster later on with more well cottaged cities.

2) London is an excellent cottage capital. well what are you waiting for, start cottaging!

3) City III would make a good GP farm. All farms there, that is where you want to abuse Liz's Phil trait. Enough production to get the NE build in decent time. Use the first GS for the academy in London and use the rest for bulbing.

4) I like city I placement better than City II.

5) Plan to buld Oxford and the ironworks in London. Run Bur. That should get Apollo built fast. Save a GE for IW if you can

6) You have stone, get the pyramids. Suggestion, forget representation. Run a CE except for teh GP farm, thus run HR as the government civic.

7) Techpath: Astonomy/Physics/steele/artillery/rocketry. I believe that is all you need to open up Apollo. Aim for chemistry with Liberalism. Keep looking at the beeline of rocketry, do not get sidetracked there, backfill on trade.

Good luck!!!!

I would move City Site III 1S of its current location.

Just wanted to add, another thing I'd like to work on for round two is city defense - it is on Raging Barbs so right now I'm not so comfortable with my army situation (I swear if I had stuck to my guns and made that worker first I'd already have a gem mine and a farm along the way haha...oh well wanted to give those who swear by "let it grow" a chance /endminirant), so I have a few options:

1. I have the stone, as well as access to Masonry long before I was planning on it (good work Scout)...might just pop out the Great Wall and continue teching towards the CoL slingshot while ignoring Bronze Working or Archery. Could even use that first Great Spy to steal a few techs from my neighbors with infiltrate.

2. Then again, this map looks promising when it comes to Bronze; lots of flat, seemingly void tiles just screams hidden metals. An early boost to my production wouldn't be half bad, but as always it is a gamble assuming that I'd even find bronze or that I would be able to work the tile in time for the hordes of barbarians.

3. Although I want to avoid cranking out too many useless techs, Archery is the only option if I want to start on the Pyramids right away (as in not building the GW first) that would guarantee me a solid early defense. The trade off is that I'd have to waste those beakers, but considering I'll want Hunting early for the Ivory luxury as is its a bit less painful than it could be.

So, what do you think? Personally I'm thinking Great Wall so that I can avoid those pesky barbarian floods that tend to wipe out your early cottages, but all three options have their strengths.

Also, apologies for failing to mention my researching Meditation; as I see it the Monasteries will be handy for that little extra science boost and it gives me an earlier shot at the Oracle than Polytheism. Not to mention I was asked to select a tech right after a goodie hut popped Mysticism and no one had founded Buddhism yet. Sadly did not get to the tech first, but it was a long shot as is. Anyways, kudos for now.

There's also a fourth option: go Wheel -> Animal Husbandry and hope for Horse nearby. I think that's probably the best one because it sets me up for getting Writing sooner rather than latter (and I'd really rather have a Great Engineer over a Great Spy as my first GP). Of course, that strategy is as much a gamble as Bronze Working (although at least if it doesn't pay off I'll have a jump start on Pottery and Writing).

Anyways, it is something to think about.

an good hint (which almost is to late allready) is to asap go grab the closest (or even two closest) capitals ... in the game i'm playing i grabed Aachen and Pesepolis before they got archers and that gave me that much land that i could get loads of beakers. apollo was made in 1750 and didn't even remotely beeline for it ... with Courthouses and smart use of Forbidden palace and Versailes its easy to get a gaint land without a killer maintainence (running ~35 cities, 80% science and a massive army running around with a profit)

Sian said:

an good hint (which almost is to late allready) is to asap go grab the closest (or even two closest) capitals ... in the game i'm playing i grabed Aachen and Pesepolis before they got archers and that gave me that much land that i could get loads of beakers. apollo was made in 1750 and didn't even remotely beeline for it ... with Courthouses and smart use of Forbidden palace and Versailes its easy to get a gaint land without a killer maintainence (running ~35 cities, 80% science and a massive army running around with a profit)

Click to expand...

Before they got archers? Which difficulty level is that? It sounds like you could move up a few notches, if you want.

I vote for city site 1, (less dead tiles) and the great wall... I say the great wall because I never play with raging barbs... they scare me!

Elizabeth is one of my fav leaders, good luck with the barbs.

Trv016 said:

Before they got archers? Which difficulty level is that? It sounds like you could move up a few notches, if you want.

Click to expand...

it was Marathon Prince ... was also lucky and had moved my settler on top of a copper (to get to the coast) ... so i was chopping axes right after my first two workers

Groogaroo said:

I vote for city site 1, (less dead tiles) and the great wall... I say the great wall because I never play with raging barbs... they scare me!

Elizabeth is one of my fav leaders, good luck with the barbs.

Click to expand...

They aren't so bad, just sometimes they can sneak up on you and take out a cottage or two - something which I'd like to avoid. Only problem I'd have is that I'd rather have that Great Engineer from the Pyramids over the GS from the Wall as my first GP - considering I'm likely to be the tech leader in this game stealing technologies isn't my first priority. It's tempting to try and finish the Pyramids and follow it up with the Wall, but then I'd worry about losing the race to the Oracle.

So what I think I'll do is try and get a second city settled (site 1 is the best option for now methinks), then finish up the Pyramids. If it hasn't been built yet then I'll build the Great Wall in my second city while London builds the Oracle. Hopefully my few Warriors will be able to defend my countryside while this is going on - I might end up building a few extra warriors just to bolster my defenses till the wall is up. After that I'll start expanding towards the marble in the north.

So far as my tech plans are for the moment, I feel that getting started on a cottage industry takes precedence over bronze working, and offers me a chance to boost my defenses along the way with Chariots, so I'm going to go Wheel -> Animal Husbandry; if there is no horse near me, then I'll try for Bronze Working, otherwise I'll continue on to Pottery and Writing. After that, it has got to be Bronze Working then Priesthood so I can chop and whip the Oracle before it is too late - I want Caste System sooner than latter.

So I'll give this round's brainstorming one more day, and post an update tomorrow night. Goodnight!

EDIT: Oh and, so far as early rushing goes...it depends on where Ethiopia is. They seem to be close, but I have yet to find their base...might try for a Chariot rush if I have the time and the horse, but right now there's a few wonders that I need to prioritize. Last thing I'd want is to lose the race to the Oracle when I am trying to tech, ya know? Otherwise it is definitely an option that I'd consider; if we find them soon and they haven't gotten Spearmen, having that extra capital early could be a nice boost.

Sorry that my update is a bit late, but here it is at last.

I've decided to try for early Chariots; not only will I need Wheel for Pottery (and thus, cottages), but I'd like to hook up with the cow and pig resources that are nearby. Let's cross our fingers for some Horse nearby!

Sadly, this is the last time I ever saw my worthy scout; damn the barbarians!



Thanks to my Scout and early Warrior's efforts, I've determined that the Ethiopians are most likely somewhere to my North; it is going to be a race to that Marble! The next few turns aren't very exciting unfortunately, so instead of tons of pictures I'll just tell you what happens. First, I completed the survey of the Western frontier, revealing that it is mostly tundra but has a few promising seafood city sites; I'm also convinced that the Ethiopians are to my North since the West side of my continent is barren wasteland for the most part. I also finished up researching Meditation and started on Wheel. Finally, I got started on that Worker in London.

Around that time, I discovered yet another tech from a goodie hut:



As you can see by the map, this is turning out to be a small continent. Worse, it seems that I only share it with Ethiopia, which makes for a bad situation when it comes to technology trading. I'll have to consider incorporating a navy into my scheme to make contact with other civilizations.

Fortunately, a bit more exploring of the Southern corner of my continent reveals what promises to be an easily crossed channel to what looks to be another fairly large continent (keep your fingers crossed):



I considered trying to post pictures of every little bit of micromanagement that I have been doing in London, but frankly I'm not sure people would find that interesting enough so here's a synopsis: I finished my Worker and started on The Pyramids. This should allow London to grow a bit more before I switch over to a Settler, and I am holding out until I discovery Animal Husbandry before settling a second city site - you never know if some Horse will be revealed nearby. I've also finished my research on The Wheel, so my Worker gets busy hooking up London to the nearby Stone and Gems resources.

By this point, I thought I'd show you a decent screenshot that demonstrates my progress:



This screenshot is interesting, as it shows several things. First, lucky for me some forest grew near London - that will make for some nice chopping latter on. You'll also notice that Barbarians have started to arrive in force: I've already lost my Scout and my second Warrior is hurting. Finally, If you look at the minimap I've basically found myself bordered by oceans to my East, West, and South - this confirms my guess that Ethiopia is to my North. I definitely have to act fast before Ethiopians take an interests in a certain soft yet malleable mineral to my North, and if this continent really is as small as I believe it to be, technology trading is going to become problematic. Good times.

After discovering that animals will do stuff for you when you give them food, I'm delighted to find that there is a sweet Horse resource right in the fat cross of city site I. There is also some Horse to my East, in what is starting to look like a lovely site for a port town:





Looks like a Chariot rush might be in order; after all securing a second capital city this early could mean a big boost to science mid-game, and having a whole continent to my lonesome has some benefits.

While I research Pottery, I've taken a small break from Pyramid building to pop out a Settler; the barbarians are getting feisty now, and having Chariots sooner rather than latter is starting to sound like wisdom.

With my free Priesthood, it seems like a good time to prepare for a CoL rush, so after Pottery is learned I start researching Writing. During all this London has finished that Settler and is back to Pyramid building. I think, however, that it is probably a decent idea to think about ctrl+clicking the Oracle in London; the AI tends to push for the Oracle and I still haven't discovered Bronze Working. Without chopping I am pretty sure it is going to be a photo finish to the Oracle, so after Writing I plan to grab Bronze Working. While this is going on, my wandering Settler finds the Western floodplains to be a suitable location, and York is founded:



I also learn that Toynbee finds my empire to be lacking:



Well, they say that size doesn't matter.

So with York founded and all of Toynbee's works banned in the English empire, I've decided to stop for now. For the next round, I hope to finish up the Pyramids and chop the Oracle, as well as get started on claiming that marble. There might even be an invasion in our near future - after all, why look a gift horse in the mouth when an early chariot rush is possible?

Anyways, with all that in mind, here is the current world map:





And the game save:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95430/Good_Queen_Bess_BC-1880.CivBeyondSwordSave

Sounds cool. Theoretically, The Space Elevator leads to the moon aswell...

Diamondeye said:

Sounds cool. Theoretically, The Space Elevator leads to the moon aswell...

Click to expand...

That it does! However, the Apollo Program is more similar to the novel that I am basing this off of. Jules Verne even rightly predicted that Florida would be the ideal site of a moonlauch for the United States...and creepily enough his name for the spacecraft, "Columbiad", was very close to the Columbia module on the first Apollo rocket.

After playing the next round, I've decided I'll go ahead and post it now as a lot of things happened and some advice would be welcome.

I decided a good start to this round would be to grab the Oracle and do a Code of Laws slingshot ASAP; not only would courthouses come in handy as I plan to spread my civilization across this minor continent that I am on, but I'd also like Caste System and an early religion to boot. So to that end, I ctrl + clicked The Oracle and put the Pyramids on hold. This does mean that my first GP will most likely be a Prophet, but if I do found a religion a shrine would be nice to have. What cinched it was the fact that I do have Stone to speed up the Pyramids, but no Marble (yet) for the Oracle, so I had some breathing room with the Pyramids but not so much with the Oracle.



And around that time one of my Warriors finally finds where those Ethiopians are hiding. I immediately sign an Open Borders agreement so that I can start scouting my rivals turf, as well as gain some diplomacy bonuses:



As I thought, there are just North of us.

Now this is when things start getting ugly; this round turned out to be a series of semi-disasters.

First, someone beat me to Stonehenge:



Not the end of the world, but in retrospect this one would have been nice to have. After doing some research on Ethiopia, turns out that the Civ is an early culture monger, which we will soon see threatens my supremacy of this continent.

And just to keep you in the know, you can see that after Writing I started on Bronze Working; I figure chopping will come in handy soon. The next few turns I mostly finished up exploring my continent while I continued to build the Oracle. After Bronze Working I started on Polytheism, with plans to build the Schwedagon Paya and Great Library in the future. For now I did not convert to Slavery, because it would conflict with Caste System and thus be a kind of waste of an Anarchy.

Then I learned the first bit of the bad news:



That event honestly happened the turn after I had built that road. What a nuisance. Fortunately, that particular spot was on the river so I didn't lose my Gems happiness...but it makes me nervous about barbarians swooping in to level the mine before my Warrior can respond. I need those Chariots! And this is why:



He might not seem like much but trust me - he came far too close for comfort to wiping out my lone London defender. So I get York busy on a second Worker with a mind to get a pasture on those horses; I'm saving my first worker for tree chopping and cottage building around London for the time being.

A bit of good news is that after discovering Bronze I do find some fairly close, however it will require a new city to be founded before I can work it:



That spot is looking pretty nice for a seaport.

I continue teching towards Literature, having completed Polytheism and started on Aesthetics. And then:









Good news, we got Confucianism! I decide for now to send the Missionary to London; the city is about to pop some and I need it to be productive while it finishes off the Pyramids. Of course I convert, and then the next turn get Caste System started. So that meant a few rounds of Anarchy, which while painful proved to be manageable.

I also almost immediately learned that there would be no defense against the barbarians without some investment in units:



Ah well, can't win every battle.

After a few more turns, I make a silly mistake. Remember that second Worker York had been working on? Well, seems I wasn't paying much attention to the barbarians on York's borders:



Blast it all! This goes to show you how important it is to watch your frontier towns, especially ones with important strategic resources. Now my empire is wide open to pillaging, and worse, there's a good chance I could lose that Horse resource, something that I'll need for expanding my empire. Although it wasn't a complete disaster, I did lose the Cow pasture and came close to losing York (had to make a dangerous gamble with my lone Warrior defender in order to save that Horse pasture, but it paid off).

As it turns out, I also lost another important race:



Looks like war is the only way to get that Marble. Unfortunately (sorry about lacking a screenshot here), a few turns latter I came across some Ethiopian swordsmen. They have iron, therefore they can have spears. Looks like I'll have to give up on that early chariot rush. Also irksome is the fact that they settled their Marble city up on a hill with Archers. Taking it is not going to be pretty, and might not even be worth the effort. And finally, I'm now worried about why the Ethiopians are building Swordsmen. They may mean to attack me first, and judging by my lack of decent defense (still haven't researched Archery, nor do I have any metals) things could get very messy. It also doesn't help me that their borders are growing far too large for my liking.

Anyways, putting the Ethiopians aside, let me backtrack a bit. While all that was going on, this was going on as well:







Although the Hereditary Rule suggestion was a good one, I decided to go with Representation in the end because it meshes so well with Caste System. Already I've got a Scientist working in London, with plans to found my GP Factory in the very near future.

In fact, a Settler is the very next thing that is on London's menu. While I busy myself with spreading my peoples, one amongst them distinguishes themselves:



The first of many I hope. I decide to found a Shrine in York; the gold will be nice, and hopefully it will help spread my borders a bit further, giving me a decent warning when barbarians are coming. Not to mention it might encourage Confucianism to spread to Ethiopian lands, which would ease our tender relations. And so, the Kong Miao begins to spread the word of the sage:



Shortly after this I complete Literature and start researching Mathematics. This seems wise, as Construction might allow me to Elephant/Cat rush Yarob for that Marble that rightly belongs to England, would give me some additional health (considering the scarcity of food resources on this continent, I need it) through Aqueducts and give me a chance for the Hanging Gardens, an excellent wonder because it gives me a better chance for Great Engineers and also boosts my population, meaning more citizens for specialists.

(Continued on next page.)

(Continued from previous page.)

Which will come in handy, because I just founded my future uber GP factory:



Good times. With Nottingham founded, I decided to end the round. Here are the maps so far:





As you can see, there are two likely large-sized islands or possibly continents to my South and East; getting a navy up and running is something I'd like to do for the next round.

And once again, we have some dotmaps for this round:





My first question is do I want to claim the West or the East first? My thought is to grab the East while I can since it will cut the Eastern fog-of-war and leave London barbarian free. They are also good sites for port cities, and I feel that I'll want those sooner rather than latter. It also looks like the most likeliest route of Ethiopian expansion, and I'd like to stop that while I still can.

So far as individual sites go, I think I'm settled on #3 as the next city spot, however I can't decide between #1 & #2 - on the one hand, that extra food resource would be nice to have, on the other, cite #2 offers more production and could be a good warship center should I need the navies.

Looking to the West we have another decent food site with site #5. Site #4 is speculative, but I think it might not be a bad idea to try and block the Ethiopians from securing Elephants - so far that seems to be my one tactical advantage over them.

Anyways, let me know your opinions.

There's some more advice I'm looking for for the next round, as well:

1. Do I pursue Construction and try a Cat/Elephant push on Yarob, or is there a different option? Currently my thinking is get Construction, then Alphabet, trade whatever techs with Yarob that I can, and go ahead with the rush, since I am worried about Yarbo becoming a nuisance latter with his crazy culture growth. Creative + Stellae is just frightening!

2. London has been busy getting some chariots for defense, but now that my borders are growing the barbarians are cooling down. Is it time for another wonder, or should I REX first to claim the rest of the continent?

3. If it is time for another wonder, which one? I currently have Schwedagon Paya and Library -> Great Library as my options, with Aqueduct -> Hanging Gardens coming up shortly. I'm tempted to hold off on the Great Library a bit until Nottingham grows so that I can build it in my GP factory, but then again I worry about losing the race to the Library if I wait too long.

4. I'll likely be seeing my next GP next round, so I am wondering just what I ought to do with it.

-If it is a Great Prophet, should I settle him or save him for a Golden Age? If I do settle him, should he go to York (our shrine city and thus likely cash cow) or London (our capital and likely another big commerce center)?

-If it is a Great Engineer, do I bulb Metal Casting, settle, or speed the construction of a wonder? If I settle, which city? If I hurry production, which wonder?

5. I feel like it is about time we made first contact with a few more civs. Those landmasses just off my shore look promising, so my question is should I take a slight detour and discover Sailing and Alphabet after I finish Mathematics?

6. Any other ideas you have, please share .

And here's the gamesave:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95430/Good_Queen_Bess_BC-0425.CivBeyondSwordSave

lets see ... on your easten part i would place a city on I, 3N1E of II, 2S3W of III, and 2N1W of III

Sian said:

lets see ... on your easten part i would place a city on I, 3N1E of II, 2S3W of III, and 2N1W of III

Click to expand...

That setup isn't half bad, even if it does mean a lot of overlap. Hmnmn...much to think about for the next round.