Dualdoc's Challenge: Fantasy Deity OCC

I really enjoyed posting my two previous games with weird setups:

Cultural conquest: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=260470

Always War Deity OCC: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=254455

I've now decided to do an ALC-style game where I'll post as I play through the game and solicit advice along the way. And I'll need it as I'll be attempting another Deity OCC, but without an exceptional capital courtesy of WB. This will be my first attempt at a straight-up Deity OCC, and I'm not really sure how to win it, but I have some ideas, and hope that people have some good suggestions.

Just to make it extra challenging, I'll be playing on Fantasy Realms. In case you are unfamiliar with the map script, it is totally crazy, with stuff like ice corn and plains oases. It is a nasty map for OCC since there is no terrain upgrade for capitals, so all capitals have several tiles of peak, ice, desert, and tundra. Since the key to OCC is exploiting every one of your 20 tiles to its fullest, that is a big disadvantage.

I've decided to play as Ghandi of the Khmer with six random unrestricted AIs. Ghandi has my two favorite OCC traits: Spiritual and Philosophical. The Khmer have what seems a good OCC UB in the Baray, which essential gives you 1/2 of a specialist. The Ballistaphant is famously derided (I recall it was voted the worst UU in the game), but I want to see if it is really that bad. To ensure I would get to use the UU, I regened the map over and over (and over) until I got visible jumbos. I hadn't realized how rare they are until I did this exercise.

The starting position:



Not too bad for this type of map. In view are a desert and three tundras, but at least they have forests (other than the one the settler is standing on). There is also an ice tile, but it has a flood plain. To the good are a forested elephant, corn, gold (on grassland), and a plains hill oasis (yes!). The oasis offers a strong start, not unlike founding on a stone plains hill (as in my last two games). No doubt, the full fat cross offers some more crap tiles, but hopefully not many.

The settings:



Since fantasy realm is an all land map (with some small inland seas), I reduced the map size to small but kept 6 AIs. They should have as much land as they would in a normal game. I wasn't sure about permanent alliances, but included it. Maybe that makes it too easy? But how would I win otherwise?

My thought is to research Ag first for the corn while building a worker using the oasis. Then I'm thinking of the Wheel and Pottery. Or should I get BW sooner? In OCC, BW is less of a priority, especially given the low chance I'll actually have copper in BTS, since I can't settle next to wherever it is (and it rarely is close).

Any suggestions? This is Deity, so I need to be as efficient as possible.

The starting save:

View attachment mwilliam BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave

I'm a player with a good bit of experience in OCC, I've won space a couple times at Immortal but never at Deity.

You haven't said what victory you're aiming for. I'm guessing conquest since you are commenting about the UU. Unfortunately I have never tried a conquest OCC so my advice is probably less relevant...
The one thing I noticed on Deity OCC as opposed to lower levels is that you can actually lose control of fat cross tiles late in the game - even with your super-capital with several wonders, if the the same AI settles multiple cities near you, it's possible to get culturally double- or triple-teamed. If you're doing conquest it will be simple to just raze those cities, but if you're doing a peaceful game I would make Music for Cathedrals a higher priority than usual, and don't do the usual moaning when you get an artist as a GP.

timmy827 said:

I'm a player with a good bit of experience in OCC, I've won space a couple times at Immortal but never at Deity.

You haven't said what victory you're aiming for. I'm guessing conquest since you are commenting about the UU. Unfortunately I have never tried a conquest OCC so my advice is probably less relevant...
The one thing I noticed on Deity OCC as opposed to lower levels is that you can actually lose control of fat cross tiles late in the game - even with your super-capital with several wonders, if the the same AI settles multiple cities near you, it's possible to get culturally double- or triple-teamed. If you're doing conquest it will be simple to just raze those cities, but if you're doing a peaceful game I would make Music for Cathedrals a higher priority than usual, and don't do the usual moaning when you get an artist as a GP.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the warning on culture. I wouldn't have thought I'd have any trouble with my third ring, much less my second. A beeline to Music for the GA isn't as crazy as it sounds. Once one player has it, the AIs tend to ignore it, so it has and maintains good trade value (this is a no brokering game).

I don't want a conquest win since both of my previous posted games were conquests. I was looking for something more peaceful. Cultural would be ideal if I can find a partner going for culture, but that might not work out. If it does, I might even build the Hermitage as my 5th national wonder, which I've never done. Otherwise, I'll try for diplomacy, with domination or space as a fallback. Obviously, domination won't be a peaceful game.

The ballistaphant is mainly for defense. If my low power rating (inevitable) draws an invasion, it is likely to include a lot of mounted troops. I'm not really excited about it, but I want to see if it is as bad as people say.

Heh I can´t resist your scenarios. And you can finish the OCC games in one evening, which I just did.

No spoilers, just two comments:

Space victory in 1900 AD, so you have a goal to beat.

Ballista elephants are probably the best UU for OCC.

*deleted* (Posted to wrong thread)

Turinturambar said:

Heh I can´t resist your scenarios. And you can finish the OCC games in one evening, which I just did.

No spoilers, just two comments:

Space victory in 1900 AD, so you have a goal to beat.

Ballista elephants are probably the best UU for OCC.

Click to expand...

Thanks for setting the bar so high. At least I know it's doable. Winning this in 1900 and winning the Always War Diety OCC in 1560 are very impressive.

MyOtherName said:

Bah, I can't generally beat 1940, on either Monarch or Emporer.

Of course, I haven't had a start with this many flood plains before. Bah, now I'll have to give it another try.

Click to expand...

Floodplains? There is only one visible.

I settle in place and found Yasodharapura. The BFC includes another flood plain ice, with incense. Nice; this will beat a town once plantationed. I have a total of 2 deserts and 3 tundras in the BFC, but at least they are all forested, so will be useful for health and eventually National Park specialists.

Settling also reveals two huts, so I send the scout after the closer one. Next turn, he pops a second scout:



If you have to pop a scout, this is the best time to do it. I send one scout after the other visible hut and the other scout to the SE. Two turns later, the second hut yields 32 gold. Then, in 3840 I have good luck:



That'll help, but not immediately. Then something very weird happens. This is my scout at the end of 3800BC:



I'm heading toward the hut. Hatty's settler is next to my scout and settles during her turn. Her border pop pushes my scout onto the hut and gives me




Thanks Hatty. I can use that. The RNG might not have been so kind if I had gotten it on my turn. Unfortunately, there is no nearby copper, so I will try AH shortly. I don't revolt to Slavery although I do plan to use it. The nice thing about Spiritual is that you can switch Slavery on just for 5 turns whenever you need it and use something else the rest of the time. This minimizes the slave revolt nuisance.

Meanwhile, I have been meeting the neighbors:








An interesting group. Not heavy on war mongers, but some good economic leaders. The most dangerous is Ramesses of England, who has the early score lead and is close to me (both north and south on this toroidal map). I don't want him mad at me post-Rifling.

In 3680, Agriculture is done, so I start the Wheel, followed by Pottery. I don't need the Wheel yet, but I want to get the discount on Pottery, and I'm not going to want the granary that soon. Getting BW has saved me a lot of research time. Same turn Lizzy of India gets Buddhism. Then one turn later, Stalin gets Hinduism.

The worker is done in 3600 and starts farming the corn. I build a warrior. When the corn is done in 3440, I switch to it to get pop 2 before the warrior finishes:



I then build a second worker at pop 2. Meanwhile, the first worker mines the gold (which I start working as soon as it's done) and camps the ivory. A nice early happiness boost. Meanwhile, my scouts die to barbarians in 3400 after popping two more huts for cash. My map is highly incomplete, but it really doesn't matter in OCC since you don't need to plan for settlements.

Pottery is done in 3120 and I take a shot at AH for horses before Writing (to get the discount and because I won't be able to build the library soon anyway). I do indeed get lucky with AH:



Horses in the BFC. Very nice. You'll notice I started the granary after finishing worker #2. That guy went down to the flooded icy incense to farm it. My workers' next task is to build a road to the horses, chop the forest that is shading them, and them put em to pasture. Chariots will give me a solid anti-barb unit.

Finally, in 2640 Writing is done, so I queue up a library. The granary will finish next turn thanks to a forest chop. I'm planning to whip the library when the city grows to size 6 for 3 pop.

The city:



You'll notice that the next border pop will give me marble. That will be in about 10 turns thanks to the imminent library. Something to think about.

The neighborhood:



Unfortunately, the marble is the only resource I'll get on the next expansion. There are a few nice resources I might get on the following expansion, but that will be awhile and whether I get them depends on my relative culture.

My tech options at this point:



I have a number of decisions to make at this point. I could do the following research strategies:

1) Go for Priesthood and use my soon-to-be marble to get the Oracle. I seriously doubt I have a shot at it. I estimate roughly 20 turns. This is Diety and some of the AIs are builders.

2) Go for Monotheism to found Judaism and get the benefits of religion. Again, I doubt it will happen, especially since Izzy has no religion yet. Do you think she can stand that?

3) Go for Alphabet and trade for some stuff like Iron Working.

4) Go for Metal Casting for really good trade bait and forges (+1 happy). No worries that the AIs will get it first. But you have to hope at least one AI goes for early Alphabet.

5) Go for Aesthetics and Literature for the Great Library. With marble, it should be a cinch and Aesthetics is good trade bait as the AIs rarely prioritize it. I could go on to Drama and Music for good culture and the option of building the Globe whenever needed (and running the culture slider if necessary before that). If I do pursue Cultural victory (or just want to cultural dominate my region for good resource control) then Sistene (at half price with marble) will be invaluable given all the specialists I'll eventually run.

6) Beeline Civil Service (through what tech line?) for the massive Bureaucracy bonus.

I'm not sure of the best plan. Another major decision I have to make is whether to pursue the Pyramids. Representation is huge in OCC. I'll want to run a lot of specialists and take full advantage of Philosophical. But is it realistic? Maybe not unless I strip my forests, and maybe not then. I hate to try and fail, since I don't need the cash. But what else would I build after the library and a couple of chariots for barb defense?

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

The save game:

View attachment mwilliam BC-2640.CivBeyondSwordSave

Go for the pyramids. Definitely. If you pasture the horses you have a solid base production. When the marble comes online you want to quarry it and you get some extra hammers. You can also chop some additional forests outside the BFC. Besides you can still grow 2 pop to add a little more hammers and maybe even mine an extra hill. I would say yes get it. In the meanwhile get mathematics for the bigger chops and maybe even a shot at the hanging gardens (again great engineer points).

Will be following this with interest.

Build pyramaids then go aestics -> litterature hoping to trade for alpha with aestics as explained in snaatys higher level play guide. With gl and pyramids you should be much better positioned than you would otherwise. Neither mc or alpha will help you that much alone...

As Killroyan and oyzar encouraged, I decide to try the Mids. I also follow their tech suggestions, going for Aesthetics for trade value and then Mathematics for boosted chops and the UB.

Meanwhile, I switch my city a bit:



I opt for the floodplain instead of the elephant to get to 6 pop 1 turn earlier, allowing me to whip the library 1 turn sooner. The granary is done next turn thanks to the chopped forest on the horse hill. Two turns later I revolt to Slavery and whip the library for 3 pop. Meanwhile the horses are finished and my workers move to the 2nd floodplain for a farm.

After the library, I put the overflow into a chariot for barb defense, although it never proves necessary. The AIs send scouts and archers all over the place, doing a great job of fog busting for me. Once the chariot was done, I start the Pyramids. 63 turns to completion. Yikes! That clearly won't do.

In 2160, Aesthetics is complete. At the same time the Oracle is built, so it was clearly unrealistic. Ramesses and Hatty have both researched alphabet, so they are amenable to trades. I make the following deals:




After the trades, the tech situation:



Lizzy got Metal Casting from the Oracle.

I do have iron in my territory:



I could go for Literature now, but why? I'll be tied up with the Mids for a long time so there is nothing to gain. Mathematics will give me the chop bonus and allow me to whip the baray for overflow hammers into the Mids and fast regrowth with the food bonus. Meanwhile, I'll avoid chopping, although one of my workers will quarry the marble, which is timed to complete (with its chop) after Math is done.

Now that I've reached pop 7, I halt growth by running 2 scientists. Thanks to Philosophical, this happens quickly:



Academy of course. I plan to settle nearly all of my future GPs.

The ladies start to annoy me with obnoxious demands, and I consistently give in. I guess that is why they keep coming back. It begins with Izzy:




I agree to the later after consulting the score list. If the #2 civ asks me to diss the weakest one, I don't mind too much.

Math is done in 1800 and I start toward Lit by researching Mysticism and Polytheism. I resume pop growth and revolt back to slavery in anticipation of this:



Note that I'm not working the horse. That is so I only get 8 hammers and can whip next turn for 4 pop (once I grow to 8), giving a lot of overflow to the Mids.

Some really good news:



I need that to expand the pop cap. Next turn I make the following trades:




I don't generally like trading for cheap techs like Monotheism and Meditation, but I want them now. Especially as Mono opens up Monarchy for Hereditary Rule. I immediately revolt to HR and OR, allowing much more pop and speeding completion of the Mids. Note that I've opted to research Metal Casting next for the forge, since I've still got a ways to go on the Mids:



Hatty's demands continue just two turns after her last one. That shouldn't be allowed.



Meanwhile, I've chopped four forests just outside my BFC to speed the Mids. I also whip a monastery for 2 pop for overflow. Finally,



I work the forests for just 1 turn to complete the Pyramids at the same time as Metal Casting. My goal has been achieved.

I revolt to Representation in 1120 and queue up a forge:



I'll whip it as Lit is coming in to set up the GL build.

My little empire at this point:



Notice my worker in Ramesses' territory. I just finished a road connecting me to him and the rest of the world (other than Hatty). I finally have trade routes. The tech situation:



Ramesses at least has Calender, which I want. I'm thinking of Fishing/Sailing after Lit so I can trade for it. My floodplain incense will be strong once it's plantationed. The wonder situation:



Ramesses has been busy. He might be viable as a culture partner if he can put some wonders in a second city.

This has been a successful round. Soon I'll get a bunch of additional resources. Neither health or happiness are a problem for a long time. The question is what to research after Lit/Sailing. A couple of ideas:

1) Priesthood -> COL -> Civil Service for Bureaucracy.
2) Drama -> Music for a theater and the Artist. The Globe will not be needed for a long time. In fact, I might never need it if I keep all the forests for the National Park. Something to consider.
3) HBR and Construction for the UU. If I wanted to kill someone, this would work, but I have nothing to gain, so I can wait.

The save game: View attachment mwilliam BC-1120.CivBeyondSwordSave

Why do you want monarchy when you have pyramids??? both mono and meditation is a huge waste to trade for on this level... You don't even have wine. I don't see you mentioning organized religion anywhere. Did you realy not revolt once you got mono to speed up all the buildingings? Thats really late for mids. You got extremly lucky... What 5 wonders are you aiming to get btw? I assume you'll mostly aim for a sse which means you don't actually need globe theater(you can use culture slider if you want).. National park is definatly a good option especially as it makes thundra forests quite good... National epic is definatly a good option as is oxford and maybe ironworks(even if it is only +50% production with national park)? The uu isn't actually better at combat than normal phants. I don't think trying to kill anyone is a good idea. You do however need to get your civics fixed. This means col burrecracy and philosophy should be top priority. priesthood -> col -> cs -> philo definatly seems like the way to go. Also are you sure you did revolt to representation? The happy cap says 10 before and 11 after in the two screenshots you have shown. Great library is obviously the next big thing to go for... Then you got a couple national wonders to build. Hanging gardens can't hurt obviously, but any artist merchant or prophet generating wonders aren't too hot... You can't actually ever get enough happiness.. You just have 1 city. Just grow it as much as possible... If saving the wonders or farming over the grassland is better depends on how fast you get national park.

He made the switch. I guess from HR to representation. 2 units give 2 happy faces and repr gives 3, hence the increase to 3. When the globe theatre is up that is nothing to worry about anymore. Great library next but hanging garden is also very attractive if you can still get it. Health is going to be the biggest problem in this OCC.

Next border pop is going to be fun though with wheat, spices and silver.

Health will not be a problem as this is bts and national park eliminates that problem... I think the culture slider might be better than globe theater but that depends on what other things you want of course. It is after all space for 5 wonders.. National epic, Globe theater, Oxford, National park, Ironworks is perfectly viable..

another great game, following with interest. I'm trying to understand what is the value in building 2 workers in an OCC. does the city grow any more quickly than 1 worker can improve tiles anyway? and for forest chops I would think 1 worker is fine anyway since your wonder builds are slow enough as is.

I'm really impressed by a 1900 space victory... this is diety level!!

I've played occ games where i have wanted more than 2 workers.. Notice how he haven't improved any of the forests yet...

He dosen't want to chop the forests. He's saving them for health and later lumbermill/preserve.

oyzar said:

Why do you want monarchy when you have pyramids??? both mono and meditation is a huge waste to trade for on this level... You don't even have wine. I don't see you mentioning organized religion anywhere. Did you realy not revolt once you got mono to speed up all the buildingings? Thats really late for mids. You got extremly lucky... What 5 wonders are you aiming to get btw? I assume you'll mostly aim for a sse which means you don't actually need globe theater(you can use culture slider if you want).. National park is definatly a good option especially as it makes thundra forests quite good... National epic is definatly a good option as is oxford and maybe ironworks(even if it is only +50% production with national park)? The uu isn't actually better at combat than normal phants. I don't think trying to kill anyone is a good idea. You do however need to get your civics fixed. This means col burrecracy and philosophy should be top priority. priesthood -> col -> cs -> philo definatly seems like the way to go. Also are you sure you did revolt to representation? The happy cap says 10 before and 11 after in the two screenshots you have shown. Great library is obviously the next big thing to go for... Then you got a couple national wonders to build. Hanging gardens can't hurt obviously, but any artist merchant or prophet generating wonders aren't too hot... You can't actually ever get enough happiness.. You just have 1 city. Just grow it as much as possible... If saving the wonders or farming over the grassland is better depends on how fast you get national park.

Click to expand...

I didn't have the Mids when I got Monarchy, and I definitely needed the extra 2 as you'll see in the city pic from the turn before the Pyramids are finished. I'm exactly at my happy cap there. And I do have wine, in about 10 turns from a border pop. I agree that Meditation might not be optimal in a trade, but I saved 1 turn on the Mids by whipping a monastery, so it was of some immediate value. And it cost nothing as Lizzy demanded both techs for Monarchy alone.

I did revolt to both HR and OR when I got them, and I certainly revolted to Representation on the last turn.

My national wonders will be Nat Epic, Oxford, Nat Park, Ironworks (since I do have iron), and ???. I have no desire to chop any of my BFC forests, so I need to get Biology ASAP to make use of them (or Repl Parts).

I agree that aiming for COL, Civil Service, and Philo now is probably best. I'm thinking of continuing on to Education for the huge research boost. After that, I don't know.

Get liberalism for a tech down as far down the path to sci meth as possible. I think globe theater might be quite ok as happiness can be a problem...

A long round, but it goes quickly in OCC. My objective throughout was maximum speed research while keeping key AIs happy.

At the end of the last round, I was starting a forge while researching Literature. In 1000, with 1 turn left on the tech, I whip the forge for 2 pop. This sets me up to start building the Great Library immediately. I backfill techs, getting Fishing, Sailing, and Priesthood in 1 turn each.

I want Calender but nobody will trade. Oh well. I get a border pop in 875 unlocking several resources to keep my workers busy. I also get a Great Scientist, settled like all my GPs for the rest of the round.

In 775, I finish Code of Laws just as the Great Library completed. I revolt to Caste System. Ramesses no longer has his reasons for not trading (Mausoleum done), so I make the following deal:



I promptly plantation the floodplain incense for a nice commerce boost.

In 700, I get a nice break as Buddhism spreads to me. It is the other major religion in the world, besides Judaism, so I have options. I get a Great Engineer in 650, which is good for my hammer limited city. More GPs are coming as I finish the National Epic in 625. A Scientist comes in 500, after just 6 turns from the last.

I hit a major objective in 575 as Civil Service is done and I revolt to Bureaucracy. I decide to go for Education, getting Paper in 475. I then notice that Music is still open and nobody has Drama yet, so I switch to Drama -> Music, getting the first in 425 and the second in 350. That turn, I get these guys:



I love getting 2 GPs in one turn. That puts me in the black, while boosting hammers and culture. It also opens up the cathedrals for a huge culture boost. I opt to not build the Globe as I don't need any happiness, but I might do so later if necessary (but I doubt it will be).

The turn before getting Music I make the following stellar trade:



It makes the pretty girl happy, so why not. Now that she is my new best friend, she agrees to the following:



A blockbuster trade that gives Izzy the tech lead, but she is my ally now so it is not a big deal. I promptly revolt to Pacifism (now +300% GPP).

Not worried about Music anymore, I don't mind selling Literature since I'm now low on cash:



With Music in next turn, the trades continue:




As the other Jew in the world, I'm trying to get him to friendly as well. The Literature deal is done so that I can then trade him Music in the 2nd one.

Now comes what I hate in this game, incessant demands from annoying AIs, mostly from the women for some reason. I give in as long as it isn't completely asinine. These 5 came over a span of 11 turns.



Catfight! Well, I'm not going to betray my dear Izzy. You know these two are destined for war down the road.




Well, no big deal, but why do they both demand the same thing?



Turnabout is fair play. But I figure I can take the diplo hit from Izzy. Still, I'm not sure I can be friends with both her and Hatty in the long run.



Why not? Stalin is backward and not my neighbor, and he doesn't like me anyway (and he's the only hindu in the world). Of course, I still just have a chariot and warrior, but he is too busy to send any units my way.

Meanwhile, in 275 I get good news:



I also make this deal with my buddy:



I get more Great Scientists in 175BC and 25AD. Finally in 100BC, I finish Education, my second key objective for the round. I revolt to OR and queue up the university, followed by Oxford next turn. Being impatient, I want my university now:



I built a nice batch of overflow to apply to it by building research since finishing my last structure, carrying the overflow until needed. I had also pre-chopped two forests to finish this turn. You'll notice my city stuck at just 11 pop, where it has been a very long time. This is the price of keeping all those forests for the National Park. And that is my new objective, getting Biology ASAP. To that end, I set research for Gunpowder, Engineering, Chemistry, and Printing Press to set up Scientific Method.

I make another key trade on this path:



The tech situation at this point:

For some reason, Lizzy decides to vassal to Hatty, despite their not being at war. I don't know why.

Good news on the hammer front in 1AD:



Great! +6 hammers since I have all three Jewish buildings. Izzy becomes pope, which is clearly her dream job. She'll cause a lot of mischief in that role.

Ramesses no longer has his reasons in 100AD so I get the following deal:



Better late than never. I've already researched 70% of it, but it saves me a little time. At this point, I'm not overly concerned about WFYABTA as the two tech leader AIs are both friendly. 100AD is also notable as I finish Oxford and see a leap to 441 beakers. At this stage, I'm ascendant with research that just blows away even the deity AIs. This is the power of OCC.

Lizzy joins the catfight in 175:



Obviously, doing her mistress' dirty work against poor Izzy. Of course I refuse.

Gunpowder is done in 50AD, Printing Press in 225, and Chemistry in 350. I then research Liberalism to within 1 turn, but nobody has Education, so I switch to Scientific Method.

Yet another Great Scientist comes in 250. On the same turn, Izzy makes her first move as pope:



Bad news for poor Stalin. I happily vote yes as I'm already at war. The diplomatic situation as a result:



Both religious factions are at war with him. He is totally screwed. With two friendly and two pleased (with the wrong religion) AIs, Diplomatic Victory seems possible at this point, but there are two antagonistic groups that will not let me stay out of their rivalry.

Ramesses takes the southern tech route, allowing some good trades. In 300,



In 450,



With Banking, I decide to detour to Economics for the Great Merchant.

Next turn, I get my third Great Engineer. Then, Izzy causes more trouble:



No!! This ends my hope of playing both sides. I don't want to defy, so I just vote no. Hatty turns cautious. Why should I take a diplomatic hit when I voted for her? Not fair.

In 520, Stalin realizes his hopelessness and vassalizes to Hatty (her second). Peace breaks out. I start to worry as Hatty moves a bunch of units to my border. I've never had her DOW me, but I clearly won't survive if she does. I decide to throw away any hope of keeping her happy and instead keep her distracted with this bribe in 580:



Of course, this makes it 1 on 3 for Izzy, but she can handle it. I expect I'll need an army eventually, so Theology could be useful.

I finish Econ in 540, revolt to Free Market, and get my Merchant. In 560, I get my 4th border pop, but the only resource I have to gain in that ring is oil (and I won't know that for a few more turns).

Meanwhile, I've run out of buildings to construct (other than the wall) so I add 4 more workers (for a total of 6). Why? I'll need them really soon. I also replace my feeble chariot and warrior with a couple of muskets just in case.

Finally, in 640 I get Scientific Method. I revolt to Serfdom and OR. My six workers start preserving forests. They can do 1 per turn on good terrain (grass or plain). I've got a lot of them to do, so I'm glad I can do it quickly. At last in 660:



Biology of course.

Izzy makes it a less than perfect turn:



She really has it in for the other women. I reluctantly agree and lose another potential friend. Diplomatic Victory is probably hopeless now.

Washington also spoils the turn by DOWing Izzy, I assume at the behest of Hatty. I don't want her dogpiled.

Having reached my key research objective (and without any AI having Education yet), I go on an orgy of trading to try and set the world right:






Now my friends should have the edge in the war:



I expect they'll pull me in at some point, and I'll go happily to get mutual military struggle credit toward a permanent alliance. But not until I can get a halfway decent army.

After all the trades, the tech situation:



Izzy is researching Military Tradition so I'll get that from her. Ramesses is working on Education apparently, since he refuses to trade for it. I hope he goes for something I don't have after that, like Constitution.

My city at this point:



It is finally growing, and of course I'm about to get an explosion of specialists. I got a lot of overflow by deliberately coming up 1 hammer short on a musket built two turns ago, so it finished last turn with virtually a full turn's worth of hammers left over. I've got two forests I can chop to speed the Park and get it done in just 3 turns. After that, I'll probably start on my military, in anticipation of joining the holy war.

My empire:



I need to choose a tech plan at this point. Options include:

1) Steel for Ironworks and cannons.

2) Replaceable Parts followed by Steam Power and Rifling for the mighty levee and riflemen (plus cavalry as I'll soon have MT from Izzy).

3) Communism for the Great Spy and to unlock permanent alliances.

4) Astronomy to Physics for an observatory and the Great Scientist.

I think Steel should come first as the Ironworks is very nice, plus cannons will allow me to clear that annoying Russian city on my border. After that, I'm not sure what to do. This is the stage of the game where the OCC starts to flag. My imminent specialists will help, but tech costs rise faster than one city's research potential. I might need that permanent ally soon if I'm to keep teching at a good rate.

The save game: View attachment mwilliam AD-0660.CivBeyondSwordSave