PYL IV - Watery Leaders!

Bleys

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This is the fourth installment a series called Pick Your Leader. The idea is based on a single, common map, but a selection of AIs to choose from, each with his own unique starting position on that map.

The goal is to see how wildly varied the map becomes with various players taking control of their own choice of Leader.

Due to a bug in the World Builder saves, and how the games are created from scenarios, there are some issues about having a choice of leaders and difficulty AI bonuses. This makes it necessary to do things slightly differently than "normal" saves. This months ZIP files contain 14 WB Saves, two for each leader, labeled "M" and "P", one for those who wish to play Monarch, Emperor, or even Immortal and Deity (Labeled M) and one for those who wish to play at Prince or Noble (labeled P).

Now that we have that taken care of, I will move on to this months theme.

Watery Leaders!

This is a group of Leaders known for their prowess on water based maps. All but one start with Fishing, and most have traits or UU/UBs that are very strong on this type of map.

Once again, I am not going to post Starting Locations. I am simply going to list the leaders, and attach the ZIP, and we can go from there. I will say that the map is a Medium and Small, Unpredictable Continents, regular Islands, with the Island Region mixed in.

I would like to have as many do reports and progress updates as possible, but it is not a requirement of any kind. This is designed to be a FUN series, to see what happens when we alter the human-element in different spots on the map. I am sure most of us have played games where were saw an AIs capitol and starting location and though "Wow, I would like to have tried starting from that spot!" Well this is how the idea was born.

I do ask that all reports be labeled and formatted as follows:

Choice of Leader, Difficulty and Speed, Years covered in report. And then the report itself inside a Spoiler. For example:

Willy, Monarch, Epic, 4000 BC through 1 AD:
Spoiler :
Since Pacal showed up on my left VERY quickly, I decided he was close enough to Rush, so I went for BW, built 50 Axemen, and ripped him to shreds! Heres is a screenshot of those shreds. <insert screeny of 3 City Ruins from that REX-spammer>

This is so that others who do not wish to gain pre-knowledge of the position or resources of others can avoid reading them until they wish too. Sort of like "Since I know Bismark is a Wonder-hog, and saw stone in his starting position, I didnt bother with the Great Wall" kind of thing. Thats kind of another reason to not publish the starts right away, so players can pick a leader without being biased by the starting tiles. If it doesnt work out this way, and folks would rather see the starts like I have done in the past, just mention it. This is YOUR series, not mine. So tell me what you prefer, I dont mind criticism at all, as long as its constructive and polite.

Here is the list of leaders for this month. I went with the normal 7, because water can slow expansion, so there should be plenty of room to get a solid game going.

Isabella, Spain, SPI + EXP
Jaoa II, Portugal, IMP + EXP
Hannibal, Carthage, FIN + CHA
Willem, Dutch, CRE + FIN
Washington, America, CHA + EXP
Mehmed, Ottoman, EXP + ORG
Ragnar, Vikings, FIN + AGG

FIN is well represented, and no wonder, it is widely considered the strongest water-trait because of the instant commerce from Coastal tiles. However, there is a solid mix of Leaders with other strong traits to choose from. I didnt include an IND leader, though, but I am planning an all-IND game soon, with a blind map!

Since all the WB Saves are in a single ZIP this month, all you need to do is download that ZIP, and extract the file of the leader you wish to play, the M for Monarch and above, and the P for Prince and below, and place that WB Save into your My Docs\My Games\BeyondTheSword\Saves\Worldbuilder folder.

Then start the game normally, load your favorite MOD if you wish, and choose "Play a Scenario" from the menu. You will see a listing for the leader you chose, pre-fixed by "PYL IV".

In the Scenario menus, you may choose whichever level of difficulty and speed you wish. All bonuses should be correct now, no more Warrior Rushes on Monarch, and the AIs wont be as slow building Wonders and teching, since they have been given Archer in the Monarch-saves.

If you are a "Prince trying to learn Monarch" level player (I think this is a VERY common skill level on these boards), there are actually 2 choices for you, "Monarch-Light" (playing Monarch level with the Prince ZIP-save, no Archery for the AIs) or "Prince +" (playing Prince level with the Monarch ZIP-save, AIs start with Archery, but will play at Prince "skill" so to speak)

ONE SIDE NOTE: I am pretty confident that the saves are all correct, but if ANYONE runs into any problems, please PM me or post here ASAP. I did not start every single save, I edited one, and started it, and then just made minor changes and re-saved each file, but a stray character here or there is all it takes to muck em up.
 

Attachments

I'm going to go with Willem (Monarch, Epic) cause I don't feel like building monuments today. I'm not very good at water maps, though. I guess GLH is a priority.
 
Joao, general strategy:

Spoiler :


Pretty weird start, but with tons of coast, so I figured it's time for some kind of ridicilous strategy. Basically I'm gonna explore north and see if there's marble on the ice, and go for a obsolete-esque capital with lots of wonders: aiming specifically for moai statues, colossus, ToA, GLH and Oracle to grab metal casting so I can get compass sooner. I'll workshop all I can of the land tiles. The aim is to use that capital to make a shitload of badass navy units and take over the world. I haven't the slightest idea whether it will work, but hey, why not. It's only Noble, after all. :)

 
I think I'll go with Washington Prince. I tend to suck with Watery Maps, so I might just land another rousing defeat! :)
 
I think I'm going with Hannibal on this one - a personal favourite of mine.
For difficulty, I'm finally going to jump to Emperor. Don't be surprised if I fail dismally. ;)
 
Willem, Monarch, Epic, 4000BC - 610AD:
Spoiler :

Met Mehmed pretty quickly. A few turns later saw this:
worker.jpg


Grabbed him, of course. Mehmed was a bit tenacious and refused to sign peace for a while, but didn't cause me any actual problems.

In the mean time I built / chopped The Great Lighthouse in Amsterdam:
glh.jpg


Hannibal assumed the role of tech leader, which I used to my advantage:
ironworking.jpg


I started building swordsmen in Utrecht, the city I settled to grab the gold between Mehmed and me. I also settled The Hague to grab the three elephants and the rice and built a couple of jumbos.

Eventually it was time to re-declare on the Ottomans with this modest stack:
stack.jpg


I took Edirne, then laid siege to Istanbul while waiting for re-inforcements. Then it fell:
istanbul.jpg


Istanbul will be my GP farm for sure. I'm building a library there right now to get it going.

I took peace to re-group at the southern border, then re-declared and took Ankara, the Ottomans' final city:
ottomans.jpg


So my empire now looks like this:
empire610.jpg


Pretty decent start, but I'm not really sure where to go from here. I have a tendency to be lazy with water maps and boringly tech my way to a space victory, although the amount of land available right now is probably not enough for that.

To do list:

1. Send a workboat over to Ragnar to see what he's been up to and if he can be invaded any time soon (with galleys, though? Probably not.). For some reason he dislikes me more than Hannibal even though they practice different religions and I haven't adopted any. Maybe buff up defences in Amsterdam.
2. I don't know what's going on with Joao, Isabella and Washington. I was too busy with my own war to pay attention to any great generals being born, but hopefully they've been keeping each other busy. Maybe my workboat can get to them via Ragnar.
3. Settle everything I can before Hannibal does. He's already put down a city next to Ankara which is annoying me (actually that was the only reason I kept Ankara, I was going to raze and re-settle a bit further east but Hannibal's city prevented me from doing so), but I don't want to declare and be left with Ragnar as a trading partner.
4. Techwise, I want Literature for the National Epic.
 
I'll have a try with Willem, Prince +, Epic

No idea where this is going, but I have a feeling the GLH might be involved! I'm also hoping for some privateer action!
 
Washington, Prince, Normal, 87 Turns

Spoiler :
Okay, here was my start:

PYLTurn000MyStart0000.jpg


I moved my Settler to the southern plains hill; with the Wheat and the Deer, I felt I should leave the Crab for a different city.

My overall goal at the start was to try and get Privateers as soon as possible since they promote so darn quickly with Charismatic leaders; I'm still fairly hopeful it will work. I researched sailing and then started focusing on stuff to get me to Chemistry and Astronomy. I built a Galley for exploration and potential transport if necessary.

On turn 13 I got Mysticism from a hut. It was pretty cool.

On turn 38 I was halfway through Bronze Working when I met my first neighbor.

PYLTurn038Ugh0000.jpg


I don't like Ragnar as a neighbor. I really don't like Ragnar as a neighbor. Fortunately, Bronze popped up directly under Washington, and so I decided to try and do something about that. I'm glad I built a Galley instead of a Work Boat for exploring.

I built about 4 Axemen and another Galley; once Washington hit the Happy Cap I switched into Slavery and built another 2 Axemen and 1 More Galley. With my mighty army of 6 CR1 Axemen and 3 Galleys, I went to see if I could cripple Ragnar.

And cripple him I did.

PYLTurn081Hooray0000.jpg


It was only guarded by two Archers. I got incredibly lucky with my first Axemen (so much so that he became a CR3 Axeman the next turn), so I only lost 2 Axemen to take Nidaros. Ragnar only had one more city, and it was guarded by a Warrior, so I figured, "Why not?"

PYLTurn087Wow0000.jpg


And that was it for the Vikings. I'm going to play nice with Isabella; I think I've got a relatively good position now for building up some infrastructure. My two other cities by Washington have Lighthouses and one has a Library. Hopefully I'm in good shape for the Optics race. :crazyeye: :)
 
Wow lots of action already, killer. Tally so far:

1 Jaoa
1 Washington
1 Hannibal
2 Willy
0 Ragnar
0 Isabella
0 Mehmed
 
I still like green.

Ottomans it is for me, though I seriously considered picking Izzy too. I'm pretty surprised nobody picked up the Vikings, maybe everyone thinks they'll be too easy :p?
 
Or maybe because agressive sucks on a water map and there are other civs with better uus and ubs...
 
Or maybe because agressive sucks on a water map and there are other civs with better uus and ubs...

You make me very much want to play them to prove otherwise, but I'll stick with the Ottomans.

The UU is great on a water map. CR naval assault, but what's comical is they keep this promotion when you upgrade them to rifles or grenadiers. In other words, you can just smack AI's down via combat I CR II amphibious rifles or grenadiers, and you can do it right from galleons after bombarding with frigates. On archipelago (and maybe even this map format) this can actually be done earlier with just the UU and galleys, sniping all but the best defended cities via naval assault.

I fail to see how warmonger traits suck on any map, you definitely get the bonuses on gunpowder units also, which makes attacking with them before an AI has them all the stronger. With Ragnar's financial, that should be pretty easy to do unless you're playing on difficulty levels too high for yourself or something.

I agree that the UB could be stronger though.
 
Willem van Oranje, 4000 BC - 10 AD, Prince +, Epic.

Spoiler :


basic summary: I was so desperate to get the GLH & Oracle that it kinda blocked my horizontal growth. I got both, but by 10 AD, I only have 4 cities and Mehmet beat me at the gold site, which later revealed to have Iron too! stupid me!

PYLWillem0000.jpg



I took MC out of the Oracle, and the GLH is slowly starting to pay off.
The GP was a priest, which I settled;

So far, I met: Mehmet (same landmass, Buddhist), Hannibal (close but other landmass?, Buddhist founder) and Ragnar (other landmass, jew but not founder)
I sent a galley towards Ragnar and hope to meet some more people out there.

Plan: I'll probably have to kill Mehmet, I'm teching towards construction now. Once he's dead, I'll have a nice landmass to settle. We'll see how it goes from there
 
I'm gonna go with Ragnar on emperor. I haven't played him in a while, and he used to be my favorite leader.
 
As a dane with a thing for vikings i obviously had to pick Ragnar.

Ragnar, Monarch, Normal, first 150 turns.
Spoiler :
Popped mysticism from a hut, built stonehenge, oracle (MC), colossus. Nothing exciting going on yet. I expanded slower than i probably should have because i tried (and failed) to build some more wonders so there are some squatters on my land now, so i switched to settler spam mode. Everyone except Willie are buddhists.

I dont plan on making a GP farm, my early wonders are supplying me with a slow but nearly clean stream of prophets and merchants so im teching at 100% science. Lib is the next goal.

Its interesting how water tiles are towns instead of worthless this time. I could get used to that.

vsm63703.jpg
 
Fun game so far. I'm not a big fan of snaky continents though. I much prefer archipelago or tiny islands.
 
Willem, Monarch, Epic, 610AD - 1475AD:
Spoiler :


First thing I did was check the religion advisor:
8religion.jpg


Not good. Looks like Isabella, Joao and Washington are all buddhist, and so is Ragnar, by the way.

But then I checked the power graph:
9power.jpg


Very atypical of Ragnar to be so low on the graph. The first workboat I sent over to Viking lands died to a barbarian galley, but the second revealed them in all their dubious glory:
10vikingempire.jpg


Only two cities. He hasn't even settled that island to his north. What the hell, let's try and take him out... with galleys. I want the dyes and the gems. I start building galleys and a couple of triremes for protection.

In the mean time I meet Washington and Joao. I gave Washington some cash for his world map. Then Joao shows up with this:
11joao.jpg


Okay, you can have it.

And Hannibal bugs me for Philosophy:
13hannibal.jpg


Fine.

Here's my invasion force:
12galleys.jpg


I was positive I could grab Liberalism but was beaten to it by "a distant civilization", aka Isabella. I therefore start trading Education around:
14joaotrade.jpg


15hannibaltrade.jpg


The war with Ragnar goes well and I take both of his cities:
16vikingwar.jpg


Unfortunately turns out he founded another one just at the tip of the island, south of Nidaros. Before I can get my troops over there he vassalizes to Isabella, who auto-declares on me.

Joao asks me to convert to Buddhism, the same turn as Isabella's DOW:
17joaoreligion.jpg


I oblige. No sense in making the Buddhist block angry with me, and this will help patch things up with Isabella after we make peace.

There are so many city sites to settle. Here's Middelburg:
18middelburg.jpg


And Maastricht, on the island north of the former Viking lands:
19maastricht.jpg


The Apostolic Palace makes peace:
20apvote.jpg


Isabella never sent any troops.

How Washington doesn't have Education yet is a mystery, but whatever:
21washtrade.jpg


Eastern islands:
22easternisles.jpg


Hun will soon be razed by a few of my troops and re-settled 1S of the horses. That other barbarian city will also be razed. I'm preparing a settler to send over there as well.

Western islands:
23westernisles.jpg


I captured the barbarian city. Didn't raze it because I plan to settle a city on that little island to the east which will feed on the clams. So Khazak will just feed on the sugar. Both former Viking cities are running artist specialists to hold off Greek culture (Washington spun Alexander off as a colony).

Thoughts:

Diplomatically I'm doing well. But there are so many islands to settle, I'm getting a bit lost. It's pretty amazing that through this war, during which I settled / captured three or four new cities (edit: five actually, now that I think about it), my economy never even came close to tanking. GLH + Financial probably took care of that.

I've got a Great Merchant sitting around (has been for years now), and I got a Great Engineer as well. So, Sid's + Mining Inc., I think, for a space victory. I also just got a Great Scientist; not sure if to bulb Astronomy with him, or keep him around in case I need Aluminum Inc. Will probably do the latter as research doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment, and certainly won't be later once Isabella warms up to me a bit more.
 
Okay, so I finally took a short break from studying. . . and got some great luck. But I can't really do a write up right now. :P

I get a plains hill iron, no biggie right? But turns later, I get the tin manufacturing event, and boom! 8 hammer tile.

Then I get a plains iron, still nothing great, but not much after, I get the jade event and 5 hammer, 3 coin tile.

Pics below:

(semi-spoiler-I just found Iron as one civ.):
Spoiler :


8 hammer tile:
8hammer.jpg


5 hammer, 3 coin tile:
5hammer.jpg


 
@ Ibian
Spoiler :


Why do you have so few cities? Only 3 cities in 800ad is really bad.

I have 9 cities with ragnar, and its 290 ad for me.
 
Spoiler :
As i said, tried to build some wonders. Old habits die hard. Im not planning on a domi win (it would be suicidal anyway with the buddhist love fest going on) and im doing ok in techs so it wont matter in the end as long as i get the available land settled soon.
 
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