silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
Bloody balls. I've been working on stats but its taking ages there are so damn many.
Pre-SINES V-Ruleset, map, and stats
- Thread starter silver 2039
- Start date
Fuschia
A Little Odd
Indeed. I apologize for not being able to help as much as I want to, but I have had limited access to a computer of any kind over the last couple of days; if you are still working on this by Saturday, I will try to finish up any of the stats you haven't completed.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
I've compiled everything das has said about this to create a rudimentary ATL:
The year now is 1900, and many things are not what they might seem at the first glance: notably, the strenght of nations is not necessarily correspondent to their size, the religious picture is very different from OTL and so is the ethnic makeup of many regions, in part because of a different evolution of cultural identity and in part because of different migration and colonisation patterns. The government forms of certain nations are also not what you expect. And no, that's not exactly Canada, but it is pretty similar in certain regards and it may well have been named Canada in a slightly different version of this world.
That is to say, an Uniate Serbian kingdom that, during the Third Balkan War (1868-1873), had won big thanks to the Holy Roman Empire's assistance and so moved its capital to Constantinople and assumed the identity of a "Byzantine successor state", in order to cement the unity of the Balkan Peninsula (which is an ethnic mess; some things never change).
The western state is the Despotate of Ionia (Greek). Around Ankara is the Kingdom of Angora (Turkish, but Christian and under strong Greek and Armenian influences). In the south is the Republic of Adana (theocratic Arabo-Turkic Muslim republic). Lastly, in the east we have the Armenian Empire.
This ethnic diversity already explains the balkanisation, in part. Basically the region had an even more chaotic history than in OTL. The Turkic invasion was much less organised, for one thing, and no equivalent of the Ottoman Empire ever arose. Other powers, including the Crusaders, the Venetians, the Hungarians and certain Slavic countries, had destabilised things further. Borders often got redrawn there; the latest major changes were the Serbian and Chernigovian conquests in the north.
Whoah, super Portugal!
Aye, its awesome, and still not in any terrible decline, though stagnating a bi
Its not called that neither. To clarify, this is the Kingdom of Arcadia, the largest successor state to the Kingdom of Britain (and the British Empire, though it wasn't an official empire); it is still ruled by the main line of the House of Northumbria (which ruled England since the Rising of 1388), which had simply fled to the colonies during the Fifty Years War (1724-1774). The problem was that when the British Isles were reconquered, they were in such a terrible state (the French occupying authorities had made sure to cripple Britain's economic potential as much as possible and generally wrecked things beyond recognition) that it was decided to rule on from Arcadia, which had by then gained considerably in population thanks to the constant stream of refugees and immigrants. Not all the other colonies accepted this, however. That mostly brings us to where we are today.
And what in heck happened to China?
a) Long, drawn-out war with the Qing;
b) Endless and ruinous peasant uprisings and warlordism;
c) Rise of the Japanese Shogunate, with the Chinese eastern coast as one of the natural targets for a campaign of conquest;
d) Portuguese meddling and expansionism;
and
e) All-around bad luck.
All those factors had united in the 17th century to screw over China, and the Qing too had failed to fully conquer it due to complications of their own and an unexpected war with the Shogunate. Over the course of the 18th and early 19th centuries, China was carved up between Japan, Portugal and the Qing, and small warlord states and "dynasties" in the south. Later in the 19th century, however, a popular uprising led by a Ming pretender and the White Lotus movement had overthrown those warlords and pushed the Qing out of central China. The Xin Ming Dynasty is even now plotting to reunite China fully, combining populism with pragmatic modernisation; while uprisings are organised in barbarian-occupied territories, a new, more modern army, trained by European "freelance" military advisors and paid for by the Flemings, is being prepared in the depths of China.
Also, why has that Ukrainian nation (whatever it is) got two capitals?
Officially and historically the capital of the Grand Principality of Chernigov was, well, Chernigov itself (the northern capital). For practical reasons (growing importance of south and the southern direction in foreign policy plus the Tverian border being so darn close), however, most of the actual government has been moved to Odessa. A bit like Israel with its Jerusalem-Tel Aviv capitals.
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Given the French capital I'd say something to do with the Hundred Years' War but that's probably wrong too.
Indeed it is wrong. Actually the French capital being in Tours doesn't have all that much to do with the PoD itself, though it is more directly connected to a significant butterfly effect that went into place about three hundred years after the PoD itself.
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das, if your thinking of a PoD to do whenever you decide to do one, this would be a nice refreshing change
If I ever go back to modding this shall be one of my options at least. There is a lot to do in this world.
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What is the steppe nation - the one in Turkestan - and why has it got that autonomous region or whatever it is? Looks Timurid or Mongol...
Oh, its Mongol all right, its the Golden Horde as a matter of fact, though it is obviously different from the original (both the OTL and the ATL one); in fact it was only recently revived. The Uighur Khanate is its obligatory vassal/tributary state.
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Or even Turkish - it\'d be nice if for once they didn\'t leave their ancestral homeland.
I have to disappoint you here, though the main mass actually settled in Persia and the whereabouts in this world. There are some OTL "Turk" tribes in the Golden Horde, though.
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I think it's earlier than the Hundred Years War. We need a PoD that supposedly radically changes demographics, as well as creates a stronger Holy Roman Empire.
You're on the right path, though technically one can alter the demographics as late as in the Age of Exploration, and the Holy Roman Empire was actually weaker than in OTL in the High Middle Ages (but did it compensate for that afterwards or what...).
I laughed at the Norwegian Ceylon.
The colours are slightly different and Ceylon has a capital. But Ceylon is a funny nation in its own right here. Because its a Crusader state (dun dun dun!).
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What if the Vikings won the Siege of Paris?
They didn't, but their somewhat distant descendants did. And another nation did too, a while later. The capital stayed in nice and safe Tours, close to the familial estates of this world's version of the Angevin dynasty (which still does pretend to rule France, though real royal power was never regained since the 16th century; the only thing that changed in the 18th century was that the king, instead of having multiple masters behind the scenes, from now on had but one; that said France has relapsed back to a de facto oligarchy again over the course of the rotten 19th century).
If its any consolation, all other Crusades in India were defeated, most soon after starting. The ones in East Africa were more succesful, though still failing to set up any lasting crusader states (they did cripple the Swahili city-states and help Ethiopia conquer Adal).
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Who put the Suez - or whatever it\'s called in this TL - Canal there?
Venetian bankers and Egyptian engineers. Alexandria held the reputation of the worldwide capital of engineering for centuries, though it has declined considerably after 1623 (when Alexandria was burned in an opportunistic French invasion).
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strength of Eastern Christianity (Christian Turks)
Catholic Serbs, however. And Catholic Grand Principality of Tver (northern Russian state; its on the verge of heresy due to linguistic and theological disagreements, but still formally Catholic).
Angora is Orthodox, however.
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the weakness of the Holy Roman Empire
It wasn't caused by the PoD directly, but by the combination of butterfly effect (no equivalent to a certain great Kaiser was ever born; other people will have to claim the epithet of "Stupor Mundi", including a megalomaniacal 17th century Egyptian king) and an immediate ripple effect of one of the comparatively immediate consequences of the PoD.
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So, how far off am I?
By five centuries and a sphere of social life (it wasn't culture, or at least cultural elements were of less noticeable importance in the event which had begun to lead this universe astray from ours).
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I dunno, but something happened and Sutter kept his nation.
w00t, New Helvetia
It took me a while to figure out what you're talking about. In a word, "no". That's the Republic of New Albion, a British "shard state" and former far-off colony, which wasn't conquered by the Portuguese because of it being under the stated protection of Australia (and possibly Arcadia as well, though Arcadian-Australian relations are perhaps too bad for both to protect the same nation). The Portuguese decided it to be not worth a world war, at least not yet.
In due time. Didn't mention it yet, but this world is comparatively behind technologically (the most advanced countries are on the 1840s-1850s Britain level, though it isn't really as linear as that, i.e. steam-powered vehicles (ships, artillery-haulers, armour) have been around for some time now, and theoretical physics are more advanced as well).
Guessing by the fact that there are Catholic Serbs (!) it has something to do with them.
Not immediately.
And I did say that they were "Uniate" in an earlier post; under that I meant that they belong to the branch of the Orthodox Church that had formally reunited with Catholicism at a certain point. The Hungarians AND the Venetians did have a lot to do with that; both powers were stronger than in OTL, particularily in the Balkans, indeed most Balkan wars in this modern history had a lot to do with Hungarian (re)conquests and subsequent rebellions with intervention from other nearby powers.
Its just an effect. The aforementioned conquest of Constantinople brought about a Byzantine collapse, benefitting the Fatimids. It was just enough to make them considerably stronger - and ironically that just made them and the Seljuk Turks bleed white against each other (generally making the Middle East even more messed up, especially in Anatolia where Turkic migrants and Arab colonists clashed and mixed). Then the Venetians, the Pope and other people behind the Crusades saw a nice opportunity and acted upon it. First the Kingdom of Jerusalem was founded, but as the Crusade fever caught on a large force of Normans (who didn't conquer Sicily, as well as a certain other European country that they conquered in OTL, and so were fairly restless and unemployed in spite of the French events) and suchlike invaded Egypt, which was fortutiously enough in a civil war. With Venetian backing they conquered it and made it stick, though it was quite a bit of a fluke. Once Egypt grew stronger it did indeed become the foremost Crusading power and a major base, and its kings ensured the survival of the lesser Crusader kingdoms (leaving them to be consumed by itself in due time, ofcourse).
Nah. Magyars were much like in OTL until the Mongols did not lay waste to Hungary, because they failed to come that far (Galicia and Wallachia were as far west as they got in this world). Then the Ottomans failed to show up, so Hungarian hegemony in the Balkans - interrupted only by major insurgencies, an insanely brilliant Egyptian king and occasional coalitions of nearby powers with interests of their own in the Balkans - was pretty natural.
Yes, Christianity is more widespread, and is somewhat less divided, though those divisions that do exist are at times considerably more bitter than in OTL (most notably the one between France and the rest of Christendom). Also the Incan Empire and most of Asia are quite strictly denied to Christian missionaries; thats a large part of the world's population, I'd say.
Tell me about that Bengali state. Is it Hindu or Muslim? It looks like Islam is weaker in this world so it look Hindu. And its colonal....me like.
It is Hindu, and a fairly important naval power in the region (predominant in the Bay of Bengal, naturally), though falling technologically behind lately (it is a few decades behind Portugal technologically, but catching up shouldn't be hard if the government sets its mind to it).
What exactly happened to Islam, anyway?
It advanced slightly further than in OTL at first, but later got pushed back considerably by the Crusades (and the Mongols, but most of these had naturally converted to Islam at a later point anyway). It is actually undergoing something of a Sunni renaissance right now, though Shiite Iraq is making things complicated.
How exactly did Japan become so...kickarse exactly. Are they Christian too?
The Shogun will cut you into many pieces for even suggesting that. They used to be missionary-friendly in the 17th century, and did indeed progress much thanks to the alliance with Portugal that helped the present line of Shoguns come to power, but as of the 19th century reaction has set in, and though there is no talk of isolationism (rather, the Japanese have a different extreme now, though their world conquest seems to be proceeding somewhat slowly...), Christians are now getting simply butchered.
Has India been soiled by the Muslims and Christians?
By the former, no more than in OTL; actually, less, as no Mughals ever appeared. Christians don't have a stronger presence than in the OTL 18th century neither, outside of Ceylon ofcourse.
You say the Bengali state is Hindu does that mean its a continuation of the Pala Dynasty?
Not really, but the present Bengali dynasty does claim such ancestry.
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And what of the other Indians states? Are they all Hindu?
The Sultanate of Hyderabad is obviously Muslim, the others are Hindu. The northwestern state is the Rajput Empire, the one in the Gangetic Plain is the Malla Empire (Gurkha in origin, created as a result of an opportunistic powergrab at the expense of the crumbling Delhi Sultanate in the late 15th century, but by now the rulers are thoroughly Indianised).
resulted in the near-mass conversion of the Turks to Christianity (at least, those that migrated to the West)
In the long-term, and the Turks in Anatolia aren't all that many. Most Turks - settled all over the greater Persian region - are still Muslim.
Also, what was the state of Anatolia between the fall of Constantinople and the Turkish migration?
Mostly there was a bunch of squabbling despotates, fighting against the Pereyeslavian Empire's claims to the former Byzantine regions. Also the Fatimids conquered and held southern (mostly southeastern) Anatolia for a while.
As a completely irrelevant bit of information, France in this world in particular is not as it may seem. I think Thlayli would for once be best qualified to lead it, at least from the role-play point of view, taking his well-known and self-declared inter-NES societal leanings into consideration. Then again Insane Panda would be more qualified after a Young Gaul (rather like the OTL Young Turk) revolution or coup that may occur in the nearest future. Around 150 years ago (i.e. in the mid-18th century) it was led by silver2039 (or, at least, his performance in DisNES II and elsewhere was partially inspirational for the French actions in the Fifty Years War).
As two more random bits of information from this world (just because I bothered thinking it out, and decided that they might be of some interest), Australia is strongly Roman Catholic (though still more or less a secular federal republic), and the state in Argentina is the Argentine Protectorate of the Kingdom of Arcadia. Those three and the Republic of New Albion are the shards of the British empire that emerged during and after the Fifty Years War, though they are severely divided by geography, contesting claims of succession to the original empire, political ideology and religion (Arcadia and the Protectorate are "Anglican", which is actually surprisingly similar to OTL Anglican; New Albion is divided).
Well, you showed interest in Bengal, didn't you? Xin Ming (i.e. southern) China conforms to your usual play style best, though (populism, nationalism, organising insurgencies in ethnic Chinese territories outside of the dynasty's control, modernising military and so forth). The Second Malinese Empire might work as well. France, alas, is no longer what it once was, but it can always go back to its good old Drengin-like days if a strong leader winds up in charge...
Sviatoslav of Kiev wins the Battle of Arcadiopolis, defeating the Byzantines and eventually capturing Constantinople?
No, seeing as Svyatoslav wasn't born. However, what did occur as one of the more immediate effects of the PoD was partially inspired by his OTL exploits, and indeed transpired as you had said. What made the difference was that this world's Kiev-based state had gotten involved in the Balkans earlier than in OTL, and had much closer ties with Bulgaria from the start, allowing a more peaceful personal union that led to a fierce war with the Byzantines, which the latter won because of the intrigue.
So the question is, why was Kiev more involved in the Balkans?
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Ukrainian power migration
Define "power migration". But if you mean heavy involvement of the "Ukrainian" elite in the Balkans, then yes.
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forced Serbia to either a) move eastwards and come into conflict with Byzantium, whom the ultimately conquer
Err, how is that supposed to happen exactly? Unless the "Ukrainians" conquer Hungary and THEN press into Serbia, but that is not really what happened.
Serbs still live where they have lived in the Middle Ages, plus in Greece; they simply unified the Balkans (as detailed earlier in the thread; incidentally, that's an event of the second half of the 19th century, so it's not really very connected to the PoD).
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b) somehow ally and/or conquer neighbouring South Slavic peoples in order to drive the Ukrainians away leading to an ultimate Serb conquest of Byzantium.
That's kinda what did happen in the 19th century, though Holy Roman Imperial assistance was perhaps more crucial than Serbian military and diplomatic successes in the Bulgarian Principalities.
The Mongols never burnt it to the ground?
Ironically enough, while generally failing to devastate Russia nearly as much as in OTL, the Mongols still did burn it down... but that is indeed way too late.
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Das could you suggest a nation I might like on that map?
The Kingdom of Arcadia comes to mind, ofcourse... The Flemings are very sneaky, though, so they might work as well.
Anyway, das, do you see any particular nation on the map as being appropriate for me?
Ethiopia comes to mind immediately, while Ceylon is a centre of Christian missionary activities in the Indian Ocean, and has evolved to something quite Jesuit-like, though with a more bloody Crusader past. The curiously multicultural Egypt might also work.
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AND ME? WHAT OF ME DASIO? I REQUEST URGENT NATION ASSIGNMENT!
The Grand Principality of Chernigov (a.k.a. that southern "Russian" state) seems to fit best (ambitious, nationalistic, irredentist, with a proud military tradition; plus you seem to like Mediterranean nations, and it may well be considered such).
ative Africa in its entirety seems rather more powerful in TTL, so I would be very interested to hear how Ethiopia, traditionally the strongest and most stable African nation, turned out.
After entering a (fairly loose) union with the Roman Catholic Church (btw, the word "Roman" is more important than in OTL, because there is also another prominent Catholic Church around), the Solomonids had become great allies of the Crusaders and their associates (i.e. Egypt and Venice). With their help they eventually crushed Adal and numerous other traditional enemies, and entered a golden age around the 17th century. In spite of later complications, Ethiopia still remains a fairly progressive enlightened monarchy, has a flourishing commerce and an interesting culture that mixes Catholic/Portuguese and more traditional Ethiopian elements. It is also in a very good position expansion-wise, as long as it doesn't alienate the Egyptians too much (lately Ethiopia had been becoming less of an Egyptian ally and more of a Portuguese one).
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A Christian missionary Ceylon (!) is incredibly intriguing. It was mentioned before I remember and I am sure Silver would like to know how his beautiful Indian paradise was so destroyed, so could you please expand on that?
After the Venetians entered the Indian Ocean in the 14th/15th centuries, they begun to run into occasional resistance during their attempts to monopolise trade in the region, especially as they begun to set their sights on various ports and fortresses that were as important to the local powers. So they decided to use the same weapon that had opened the door into the Indies for them, and with Papal blessing initiated a series of crusades against various enemies, recruiting many of the impetuous Egyptian and other Crusader State nobles (as by then the social conditions there had become similar to pre-crusade Europe in many regards). There were also the clashes between the Roman Catholic missionaries and the increasingly xenophobic local rulers. The Crusaders had devastated the Swahili city-states and parts of coastal India, but failed to secure any lasting strongholds there, for the most part; in Ceylon, various factors (such as it being an island; easier to conquer once invaded, and once conquered easier to hold, and obviously it was of great interest for the Venetians) allowed an Egyptian Crusader order (the Knights of the Nile) to prevail. What emerged was soemthing of a hybrid of the Teutonic Knights and the Knights Hospitaller; eventually it evolved into something closer to the latter and to the Templars (i.e. they cut back on crusading and instead begun trading with and studying the heathens). As changes came to the Roman Catholic Church, and the Venetian colonial empire collapsed during the Great Mediterranean War in the late 17th century, the state became a strong regional naval and commercial power in its own right, and also a natural centre of missionary activities. A new religious order (the Noahites) arose on the island; it is fairly Jesuit-like in approach, though even more keen on evangelisation.
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A multicultural Egypt is also intiguing and unusual, so, again, would you please expand on it?
The short of it is that the Crusades had succeeded, and a Norman kingdom was carved out in chaos-struck Egypt. Initially things were troublesome, but eventually the kingdom was consolidated, the Norman ruling class resembling the Greek one of the Ptolemaics. The fairly pragmatic Norman approach to administration (see religious policies in Sicily) helped as well. After a while Norman Egypt went on to become a great power, gradually uniting the Crusader States around itself, while internally a cultural flourishing occured with the help of the assorted orders (both Templar-like Crusaders and an earlier Freemason analogue). Naturally the new Egyptian culture was increasingly unorthodox and divergent, but the Papacy had more pressing concerns like an Europe-wide religious civil war that raged on for centuries (ofcourse the actual fighting was far from uninterrupted during this time, but religious clashes are still not quite over). Anyhow in 1683 a dynastic crisis ended the reign of the Hautevilles, and after a brief "corrupt council of regents vying for power with increasingly manipulative and secretive orders" episode a military coup led by the metis (half-Arab, half-Norman) who would become King-and-Emperor Alexander I, Stupor Mundi, occured. A Napoleonic kind of person, he secularised the realm, curbed the power and privelege of everyone that had any (the orders, the guilds, the nobles, the Church), confiscated numerous church lands, adapted a new calendar and measurement system, introducing vaguely egalitarian social reforms and so on. Then he decided to rebuild the Roman Empire (and get back at the Venetians that tried to overthrow him); he built a huge empire and made the Eastern Mediterranean an Egyptian lake, and even took Rome itself at one point, but the man who already held the title of Roman Emperor (and Holy, at that!) rallied the opposition against the Egyptians. A long war ensued in Italy and the Balkans (and elsewhere, especially if we count the French warmongering as it was largely incited by Alexander at a more desperate point of the war), and ultimately a compromise peace was reached; the Egyptians kept most of their gains (Tunisia, Sicily, Calabria, the Balkans, Anatolia), but left the Imperial title to the House of Leiningen, which imposed German hegemony over northern Italy. Central Italy, previously led by the Pope, became a neutral and secular republic-type state, and the Egyptians withdrew from there and from southern Hungary. Also Venice lost its independence and its empire along the way.
But early in the 18th century, Alexander died, and his empire crumbled (though the core Egyptian lands were naturally preserved, and it took a few more decades and regional wars to push his heirs out of the southern Balkans and Italy). Pax Germanica dawned upon Europe; as for Egypt, it underwent a period of power struggles and court intrigue, but revived again later in the century. As a consequence of Alexander's reforms - never really reversed - it is even now the most egalitarian nation in the world, and though falling somewhat behind technologically as of right now its strategic position still is enough to make it flourish commercially, and its influence in the world, though diminished since its golden age, is bound to rise again given an energetic ruler. Need I say that the Chosen People are doing quite well for themselves as well?
Meanwhile, France is a bitter diplomatically-isolated theocracy besieged by hateful neighbours.
The year now is 1900, and many things are not what they might seem at the first glance: notably, the strenght of nations is not necessarily correspondent to their size, the religious picture is very different from OTL and so is the ethnic makeup of many regions, in part because of a different evolution of cultural identity and in part because of different migration and colonisation patterns. The government forms of certain nations are also not what you expect. And no, that's not exactly Canada, but it is pretty similar in certain regards and it may well have been named Canada in a slightly different version of this world.
That is to say, an Uniate Serbian kingdom that, during the Third Balkan War (1868-1873), had won big thanks to the Holy Roman Empire's assistance and so moved its capital to Constantinople and assumed the identity of a "Byzantine successor state", in order to cement the unity of the Balkan Peninsula (which is an ethnic mess; some things never change).
The western state is the Despotate of Ionia (Greek). Around Ankara is the Kingdom of Angora (Turkish, but Christian and under strong Greek and Armenian influences). In the south is the Republic of Adana (theocratic Arabo-Turkic Muslim republic). Lastly, in the east we have the Armenian Empire.
This ethnic diversity already explains the balkanisation, in part. Basically the region had an even more chaotic history than in OTL. The Turkic invasion was much less organised, for one thing, and no equivalent of the Ottoman Empire ever arose. Other powers, including the Crusaders, the Venetians, the Hungarians and certain Slavic countries, had destabilised things further. Borders often got redrawn there; the latest major changes were the Serbian and Chernigovian conquests in the north.
Whoah, super Portugal!
Aye, its awesome, and still not in any terrible decline, though stagnating a bi
Its not called that neither. To clarify, this is the Kingdom of Arcadia, the largest successor state to the Kingdom of Britain (and the British Empire, though it wasn't an official empire); it is still ruled by the main line of the House of Northumbria (which ruled England since the Rising of 1388), which had simply fled to the colonies during the Fifty Years War (1724-1774). The problem was that when the British Isles were reconquered, they were in such a terrible state (the French occupying authorities had made sure to cripple Britain's economic potential as much as possible and generally wrecked things beyond recognition) that it was decided to rule on from Arcadia, which had by then gained considerably in population thanks to the constant stream of refugees and immigrants. Not all the other colonies accepted this, however. That mostly brings us to where we are today.
And what in heck happened to China?
a) Long, drawn-out war with the Qing;
b) Endless and ruinous peasant uprisings and warlordism;
c) Rise of the Japanese Shogunate, with the Chinese eastern coast as one of the natural targets for a campaign of conquest;
d) Portuguese meddling and expansionism;
and
e) All-around bad luck.
All those factors had united in the 17th century to screw over China, and the Qing too had failed to fully conquer it due to complications of their own and an unexpected war with the Shogunate. Over the course of the 18th and early 19th centuries, China was carved up between Japan, Portugal and the Qing, and small warlord states and "dynasties" in the south. Later in the 19th century, however, a popular uprising led by a Ming pretender and the White Lotus movement had overthrown those warlords and pushed the Qing out of central China. The Xin Ming Dynasty is even now plotting to reunite China fully, combining populism with pragmatic modernisation; while uprisings are organised in barbarian-occupied territories, a new, more modern army, trained by European "freelance" military advisors and paid for by the Flemings, is being prepared in the depths of China.
Also, why has that Ukrainian nation (whatever it is) got two capitals?
Officially and historically the capital of the Grand Principality of Chernigov was, well, Chernigov itself (the northern capital). For practical reasons (growing importance of south and the southern direction in foreign policy plus the Tverian border being so darn close), however, most of the actual government has been moved to Odessa. A bit like Israel with its Jerusalem-Tel Aviv capitals.
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Given the French capital I'd say something to do with the Hundred Years' War but that's probably wrong too.
Indeed it is wrong. Actually the French capital being in Tours doesn't have all that much to do with the PoD itself, though it is more directly connected to a significant butterfly effect that went into place about three hundred years after the PoD itself.
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das, if your thinking of a PoD to do whenever you decide to do one, this would be a nice refreshing change
If I ever go back to modding this shall be one of my options at least. There is a lot to do in this world.
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What is the steppe nation - the one in Turkestan - and why has it got that autonomous region or whatever it is? Looks Timurid or Mongol...
Oh, its Mongol all right, its the Golden Horde as a matter of fact, though it is obviously different from the original (both the OTL and the ATL one); in fact it was only recently revived. The Uighur Khanate is its obligatory vassal/tributary state.
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Or even Turkish - it\'d be nice if for once they didn\'t leave their ancestral homeland.
I have to disappoint you here, though the main mass actually settled in Persia and the whereabouts in this world. There are some OTL "Turk" tribes in the Golden Horde, though.
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I think it's earlier than the Hundred Years War. We need a PoD that supposedly radically changes demographics, as well as creates a stronger Holy Roman Empire.
You're on the right path, though technically one can alter the demographics as late as in the Age of Exploration, and the Holy Roman Empire was actually weaker than in OTL in the High Middle Ages (but did it compensate for that afterwards or what...).
I laughed at the Norwegian Ceylon.
The colours are slightly different and Ceylon has a capital. But Ceylon is a funny nation in its own right here. Because its a Crusader state (dun dun dun!).
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What if the Vikings won the Siege of Paris?
They didn't, but their somewhat distant descendants did. And another nation did too, a while later. The capital stayed in nice and safe Tours, close to the familial estates of this world's version of the Angevin dynasty (which still does pretend to rule France, though real royal power was never regained since the 16th century; the only thing that changed in the 18th century was that the king, instead of having multiple masters behind the scenes, from now on had but one; that said France has relapsed back to a de facto oligarchy again over the course of the rotten 19th century).
If its any consolation, all other Crusades in India were defeated, most soon after starting. The ones in East Africa were more succesful, though still failing to set up any lasting crusader states (they did cripple the Swahili city-states and help Ethiopia conquer Adal).
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Who put the Suez - or whatever it\'s called in this TL - Canal there?
Venetian bankers and Egyptian engineers. Alexandria held the reputation of the worldwide capital of engineering for centuries, though it has declined considerably after 1623 (when Alexandria was burned in an opportunistic French invasion).
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strength of Eastern Christianity (Christian Turks)
Catholic Serbs, however. And Catholic Grand Principality of Tver (northern Russian state; its on the verge of heresy due to linguistic and theological disagreements, but still formally Catholic).
Angora is Orthodox, however.
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the weakness of the Holy Roman Empire
It wasn't caused by the PoD directly, but by the combination of butterfly effect (no equivalent to a certain great Kaiser was ever born; other people will have to claim the epithet of "Stupor Mundi", including a megalomaniacal 17th century Egyptian king) and an immediate ripple effect of one of the comparatively immediate consequences of the PoD.
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So, how far off am I?
By five centuries and a sphere of social life (it wasn't culture, or at least cultural elements were of less noticeable importance in the event which had begun to lead this universe astray from ours).
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I dunno, but something happened and Sutter kept his nation.
w00t, New Helvetia
It took me a while to figure out what you're talking about. In a word, "no". That's the Republic of New Albion, a British "shard state" and former far-off colony, which wasn't conquered by the Portuguese because of it being under the stated protection of Australia (and possibly Arcadia as well, though Arcadian-Australian relations are perhaps too bad for both to protect the same nation). The Portuguese decided it to be not worth a world war, at least not yet.
In due time. Didn't mention it yet, but this world is comparatively behind technologically (the most advanced countries are on the 1840s-1850s Britain level, though it isn't really as linear as that, i.e. steam-powered vehicles (ships, artillery-haulers, armour) have been around for some time now, and theoretical physics are more advanced as well).
Guessing by the fact that there are Catholic Serbs (!) it has something to do with them.
Not immediately.
And I did say that they were "Uniate" in an earlier post; under that I meant that they belong to the branch of the Orthodox Church that had formally reunited with Catholicism at a certain point. The Hungarians AND the Venetians did have a lot to do with that; both powers were stronger than in OTL, particularily in the Balkans, indeed most Balkan wars in this modern history had a lot to do with Hungarian (re)conquests and subsequent rebellions with intervention from other nearby powers.
Its just an effect. The aforementioned conquest of Constantinople brought about a Byzantine collapse, benefitting the Fatimids. It was just enough to make them considerably stronger - and ironically that just made them and the Seljuk Turks bleed white against each other (generally making the Middle East even more messed up, especially in Anatolia where Turkic migrants and Arab colonists clashed and mixed). Then the Venetians, the Pope and other people behind the Crusades saw a nice opportunity and acted upon it. First the Kingdom of Jerusalem was founded, but as the Crusade fever caught on a large force of Normans (who didn't conquer Sicily, as well as a certain other European country that they conquered in OTL, and so were fairly restless and unemployed in spite of the French events) and suchlike invaded Egypt, which was fortutiously enough in a civil war. With Venetian backing they conquered it and made it stick, though it was quite a bit of a fluke. Once Egypt grew stronger it did indeed become the foremost Crusading power and a major base, and its kings ensured the survival of the lesser Crusader kingdoms (leaving them to be consumed by itself in due time, ofcourse).
Nah. Magyars were much like in OTL until the Mongols did not lay waste to Hungary, because they failed to come that far (Galicia and Wallachia were as far west as they got in this world). Then the Ottomans failed to show up, so Hungarian hegemony in the Balkans - interrupted only by major insurgencies, an insanely brilliant Egyptian king and occasional coalitions of nearby powers with interests of their own in the Balkans - was pretty natural.
Yes, Christianity is more widespread, and is somewhat less divided, though those divisions that do exist are at times considerably more bitter than in OTL (most notably the one between France and the rest of Christendom). Also the Incan Empire and most of Asia are quite strictly denied to Christian missionaries; thats a large part of the world's population, I'd say.
Tell me about that Bengali state. Is it Hindu or Muslim? It looks like Islam is weaker in this world so it look Hindu. And its colonal....me like.
It is Hindu, and a fairly important naval power in the region (predominant in the Bay of Bengal, naturally), though falling technologically behind lately (it is a few decades behind Portugal technologically, but catching up shouldn't be hard if the government sets its mind to it).
What exactly happened to Islam, anyway?
It advanced slightly further than in OTL at first, but later got pushed back considerably by the Crusades (and the Mongols, but most of these had naturally converted to Islam at a later point anyway). It is actually undergoing something of a Sunni renaissance right now, though Shiite Iraq is making things complicated.
How exactly did Japan become so...kickarse exactly. Are they Christian too?
The Shogun will cut you into many pieces for even suggesting that. They used to be missionary-friendly in the 17th century, and did indeed progress much thanks to the alliance with Portugal that helped the present line of Shoguns come to power, but as of the 19th century reaction has set in, and though there is no talk of isolationism (rather, the Japanese have a different extreme now, though their world conquest seems to be proceeding somewhat slowly...), Christians are now getting simply butchered.
Has India been soiled by the Muslims and Christians?
By the former, no more than in OTL; actually, less, as no Mughals ever appeared. Christians don't have a stronger presence than in the OTL 18th century neither, outside of Ceylon ofcourse.
You say the Bengali state is Hindu does that mean its a continuation of the Pala Dynasty?
Not really, but the present Bengali dynasty does claim such ancestry.
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And what of the other Indians states? Are they all Hindu?
The Sultanate of Hyderabad is obviously Muslim, the others are Hindu. The northwestern state is the Rajput Empire, the one in the Gangetic Plain is the Malla Empire (Gurkha in origin, created as a result of an opportunistic powergrab at the expense of the crumbling Delhi Sultanate in the late 15th century, but by now the rulers are thoroughly Indianised).
resulted in the near-mass conversion of the Turks to Christianity (at least, those that migrated to the West)
In the long-term, and the Turks in Anatolia aren't all that many. Most Turks - settled all over the greater Persian region - are still Muslim.
Also, what was the state of Anatolia between the fall of Constantinople and the Turkish migration?
Mostly there was a bunch of squabbling despotates, fighting against the Pereyeslavian Empire's claims to the former Byzantine regions. Also the Fatimids conquered and held southern (mostly southeastern) Anatolia for a while.
As a completely irrelevant bit of information, France in this world in particular is not as it may seem. I think Thlayli would for once be best qualified to lead it, at least from the role-play point of view, taking his well-known and self-declared inter-NES societal leanings into consideration. Then again Insane Panda would be more qualified after a Young Gaul (rather like the OTL Young Turk) revolution or coup that may occur in the nearest future. Around 150 years ago (i.e. in the mid-18th century) it was led by silver2039 (or, at least, his performance in DisNES II and elsewhere was partially inspirational for the French actions in the Fifty Years War).
As two more random bits of information from this world (just because I bothered thinking it out, and decided that they might be of some interest), Australia is strongly Roman Catholic (though still more or less a secular federal republic), and the state in Argentina is the Argentine Protectorate of the Kingdom of Arcadia. Those three and the Republic of New Albion are the shards of the British empire that emerged during and after the Fifty Years War, though they are severely divided by geography, contesting claims of succession to the original empire, political ideology and religion (Arcadia and the Protectorate are "Anglican", which is actually surprisingly similar to OTL Anglican; New Albion is divided).
Well, you showed interest in Bengal, didn't you? Xin Ming (i.e. southern) China conforms to your usual play style best, though (populism, nationalism, organising insurgencies in ethnic Chinese territories outside of the dynasty's control, modernising military and so forth). The Second Malinese Empire might work as well. France, alas, is no longer what it once was, but it can always go back to its good old Drengin-like days if a strong leader winds up in charge...
Sviatoslav of Kiev wins the Battle of Arcadiopolis, defeating the Byzantines and eventually capturing Constantinople?
No, seeing as Svyatoslav wasn't born. However, what did occur as one of the more immediate effects of the PoD was partially inspired by his OTL exploits, and indeed transpired as you had said. What made the difference was that this world's Kiev-based state had gotten involved in the Balkans earlier than in OTL, and had much closer ties with Bulgaria from the start, allowing a more peaceful personal union that led to a fierce war with the Byzantines, which the latter won because of the intrigue.
So the question is, why was Kiev more involved in the Balkans?
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Ukrainian power migration
Define "power migration". But if you mean heavy involvement of the "Ukrainian" elite in the Balkans, then yes.
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forced Serbia to either a) move eastwards and come into conflict with Byzantium, whom the ultimately conquer
Err, how is that supposed to happen exactly? Unless the "Ukrainians" conquer Hungary and THEN press into Serbia, but that is not really what happened.
Serbs still live where they have lived in the Middle Ages, plus in Greece; they simply unified the Balkans (as detailed earlier in the thread; incidentally, that's an event of the second half of the 19th century, so it's not really very connected to the PoD).
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b) somehow ally and/or conquer neighbouring South Slavic peoples in order to drive the Ukrainians away leading to an ultimate Serb conquest of Byzantium.
That's kinda what did happen in the 19th century, though Holy Roman Imperial assistance was perhaps more crucial than Serbian military and diplomatic successes in the Bulgarian Principalities.
The Mongols never burnt it to the ground?
Ironically enough, while generally failing to devastate Russia nearly as much as in OTL, the Mongols still did burn it down... but that is indeed way too late.
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Das could you suggest a nation I might like on that map?
The Kingdom of Arcadia comes to mind, ofcourse... The Flemings are very sneaky, though, so they might work as well.
Anyway, das, do you see any particular nation on the map as being appropriate for me?
Ethiopia comes to mind immediately, while Ceylon is a centre of Christian missionary activities in the Indian Ocean, and has evolved to something quite Jesuit-like, though with a more bloody Crusader past. The curiously multicultural Egypt might also work.
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AND ME? WHAT OF ME DASIO? I REQUEST URGENT NATION ASSIGNMENT!
The Grand Principality of Chernigov (a.k.a. that southern "Russian" state) seems to fit best (ambitious, nationalistic, irredentist, with a proud military tradition; plus you seem to like Mediterranean nations, and it may well be considered such).
ative Africa in its entirety seems rather more powerful in TTL, so I would be very interested to hear how Ethiopia, traditionally the strongest and most stable African nation, turned out.
After entering a (fairly loose) union with the Roman Catholic Church (btw, the word "Roman" is more important than in OTL, because there is also another prominent Catholic Church around), the Solomonids had become great allies of the Crusaders and their associates (i.e. Egypt and Venice). With their help they eventually crushed Adal and numerous other traditional enemies, and entered a golden age around the 17th century. In spite of later complications, Ethiopia still remains a fairly progressive enlightened monarchy, has a flourishing commerce and an interesting culture that mixes Catholic/Portuguese and more traditional Ethiopian elements. It is also in a very good position expansion-wise, as long as it doesn't alienate the Egyptians too much (lately Ethiopia had been becoming less of an Egyptian ally and more of a Portuguese one).
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A Christian missionary Ceylon (!) is incredibly intriguing. It was mentioned before I remember and I am sure Silver would like to know how his beautiful Indian paradise was so destroyed, so could you please expand on that?
After the Venetians entered the Indian Ocean in the 14th/15th centuries, they begun to run into occasional resistance during their attempts to monopolise trade in the region, especially as they begun to set their sights on various ports and fortresses that were as important to the local powers. So they decided to use the same weapon that had opened the door into the Indies for them, and with Papal blessing initiated a series of crusades against various enemies, recruiting many of the impetuous Egyptian and other Crusader State nobles (as by then the social conditions there had become similar to pre-crusade Europe in many regards). There were also the clashes between the Roman Catholic missionaries and the increasingly xenophobic local rulers. The Crusaders had devastated the Swahili city-states and parts of coastal India, but failed to secure any lasting strongholds there, for the most part; in Ceylon, various factors (such as it being an island; easier to conquer once invaded, and once conquered easier to hold, and obviously it was of great interest for the Venetians) allowed an Egyptian Crusader order (the Knights of the Nile) to prevail. What emerged was soemthing of a hybrid of the Teutonic Knights and the Knights Hospitaller; eventually it evolved into something closer to the latter and to the Templars (i.e. they cut back on crusading and instead begun trading with and studying the heathens). As changes came to the Roman Catholic Church, and the Venetian colonial empire collapsed during the Great Mediterranean War in the late 17th century, the state became a strong regional naval and commercial power in its own right, and also a natural centre of missionary activities. A new religious order (the Noahites) arose on the island; it is fairly Jesuit-like in approach, though even more keen on evangelisation.
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A multicultural Egypt is also intiguing and unusual, so, again, would you please expand on it?
The short of it is that the Crusades had succeeded, and a Norman kingdom was carved out in chaos-struck Egypt. Initially things were troublesome, but eventually the kingdom was consolidated, the Norman ruling class resembling the Greek one of the Ptolemaics. The fairly pragmatic Norman approach to administration (see religious policies in Sicily) helped as well. After a while Norman Egypt went on to become a great power, gradually uniting the Crusader States around itself, while internally a cultural flourishing occured with the help of the assorted orders (both Templar-like Crusaders and an earlier Freemason analogue). Naturally the new Egyptian culture was increasingly unorthodox and divergent, but the Papacy had more pressing concerns like an Europe-wide religious civil war that raged on for centuries (ofcourse the actual fighting was far from uninterrupted during this time, but religious clashes are still not quite over). Anyhow in 1683 a dynastic crisis ended the reign of the Hautevilles, and after a brief "corrupt council of regents vying for power with increasingly manipulative and secretive orders" episode a military coup led by the metis (half-Arab, half-Norman) who would become King-and-Emperor Alexander I, Stupor Mundi, occured. A Napoleonic kind of person, he secularised the realm, curbed the power and privelege of everyone that had any (the orders, the guilds, the nobles, the Church), confiscated numerous church lands, adapted a new calendar and measurement system, introducing vaguely egalitarian social reforms and so on. Then he decided to rebuild the Roman Empire (and get back at the Venetians that tried to overthrow him); he built a huge empire and made the Eastern Mediterranean an Egyptian lake, and even took Rome itself at one point, but the man who already held the title of Roman Emperor (and Holy, at that!) rallied the opposition against the Egyptians. A long war ensued in Italy and the Balkans (and elsewhere, especially if we count the French warmongering as it was largely incited by Alexander at a more desperate point of the war), and ultimately a compromise peace was reached; the Egyptians kept most of their gains (Tunisia, Sicily, Calabria, the Balkans, Anatolia), but left the Imperial title to the House of Leiningen, which imposed German hegemony over northern Italy. Central Italy, previously led by the Pope, became a neutral and secular republic-type state, and the Egyptians withdrew from there and from southern Hungary. Also Venice lost its independence and its empire along the way.
But early in the 18th century, Alexander died, and his empire crumbled (though the core Egyptian lands were naturally preserved, and it took a few more decades and regional wars to push his heirs out of the southern Balkans and Italy). Pax Germanica dawned upon Europe; as for Egypt, it underwent a period of power struggles and court intrigue, but revived again later in the century. As a consequence of Alexander's reforms - never really reversed - it is even now the most egalitarian nation in the world, and though falling somewhat behind technologically as of right now its strategic position still is enough to make it flourish commercially, and its influence in the world, though diminished since its golden age, is bound to rise again given an energetic ruler. Need I say that the Chosen People are doing quite well for themselves as well?
Meanwhile, France is a bitter diplomatically-isolated theocracy besieged by hateful neighbours.
silver 2039
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Sorry, what exactly is that uber-Armenia, again?
A very large Armenian empire. Its rather plain, really, apart from being a large and strong modern Armenian state. Well, it is also a pretty old state with a continuous dynasty and debated religious affiliation, and it used to be an Egyptian vassal, though right now it is more of a Chernigovian ally. Could be made into something greater given the right leadership and some luck, I suppose; the Serbian example is certainly inspiring.
Australia (Australia being fairly similar to OTL USA in numerous key regards, though far from identical ofcourse)
hat nation would I lead, save instigating a coup against Thlayli ?
As was already said, the Holy Roman Empire. It certainly needs a good leader as it is in a bit of a crisis right now, having lost several periphereal vassal states and principalities after the Italian Rising. The Pax Germanica is crumbling and it needs you to shore it up!
Wait...Japan has been slaughtering Christians?
"Has been"? It still is, though this is becoming somewhat problematic as the surviving "Kirishitans" had gotten both scarce and skilled at hiding.
As for uniting Europe again, its in the middle of the Age of Nationalism and full of great powers,
None on such a large scale. The Vietnamese have been imitating their Japanese allies closely, though, while the New Caliphate (the state in Arabia) has massacred the Christian colonists in Hejjaz comparatively recently.
What about in Scandinavia? - I had a bias there back in the early days (Finland, Sweden-Norway, Sweden, etc.).
Norway should work well; it is very aggressive, militaristic and vigorous here, and has some incipient pan-Scandinavian ambitions.
About that timeline, whats the ethnic make up of the Portuguese Empire, considering if demographics followed the OTL they would have like 1/5th of population spain did when in came to colonizing America...
The colonies are obviously not very racially pure. Mexico in particular has seen a lot of intermarriage (more than in OTL due to no such strict blood purity standards as existed in Spain), and the other colonies have more native communities surviving outside of the Portuguese-dominated coastal areas; this especially goes for the Phillipines, though there cultural conquest has occured similarily to OTL. Chinese territories are Chinese-majority, though cultural identity is somewhat confused and widely-ranging. Also one must note that there are Flemings and Englishmen in the respective colonies of Flandres and Britain that were captured after the Fifty Years War, and British and other Iberian refugee communities in Mexico and the Carribean.
also what happened with the conquest of mexico - Portugal was very much a sea-based power, they never went far from the coasts in their conquests so I would posit the decay of the native states and gradual reaching out from the coasts rather the Conquestidors wham bam campaign.
You are, ofcourse, forgetting about a little country known as Brazil; and that one didn't have so many wealthy native cities and had much worse interior terrain. Still, it was noticeably more gradual than the OTL Spanish conquest.
I was wondering, das: what are Sweden, Denmark, and Norway like in respect to each other, i.e. power, economy, populace, ethnicity - even a little bit of history? I might be interested in one or the other, or even the other other...
Ethnicity is not much different from OTL and population is guessable; though there are some changes, ofcourse, such as a greater ethnic Swedish presence in Finland (Swedes and half-Swedes are the majority by now), and the differences in Norway (it never was united with Denmark for any meaningful period of time, so it has retained its own culture and language in a more intact state; also Norway has a higher population - more land, less foreign restrictions, and ofcourse refugees from the Fifty Years War that figured that it is better to risk a frostbite than a "God's purifying flame"). Denmark is somewhat poorer than in OTL, but is more militarised and has for the last few centuries been fighting irredentist wars with the Holy Roman Empire, not really very succesfully. And Sweden is nice and quiet, with not much of a military tradition; it is increasingly pushed around by its more aggressive neighbours, and so increasingly leaning towards the Holy Roman Empire, being under strong German cultural influence and in dynastic ties with the Leiningens as of right now.
The Republic of New Albion is in OTL California. The rest are right, but Qing China should probably be called the Qing Empire instead, as it isn't very Chinese. Xin Ming Dynasty might or might not be called Xin Ming China, or simply China; it is very nationalistic, more nationalistic than dynastic.
Now, tell us about these fun-sounding religious wars. It looks like Catholic schism in France.
That much is true; France is the only country left that still follows the Avignon Catholic Church (which had by now diverged from the Roman one in doctrine and theology as well as in politics). During the 14th century a more violent and long-term version of the OTL schism had occured, and a series of fierce religious wars ensued (these were fought all over the greater part of Europe; that was when the French had conquered or reconquered most of their present Iberian holdings, but their campaigns in Lorraine and Italy were less resultative); by the 16th century even Hungary had abandoned the ACC (with the Angevin downfall there after a serious feudal war), but France remained stalwart, increasingly narrowminded, isolationist and hardline. 16th and 17th centuries were characterised by a feudal-clerical oligarchy presiding over the king and the Avignon Pope (both mere figureheads by tradition), with the clerical elements increasingly important; but it was the 18th century that went down in French history as the Age of the Cardinals, as three particularily strong cardinals followed in nearly-uninterrupted succession, reducing their internal enemies to corpses or instruments of their will.
The most prominent - and scary - of these cardinals was Cardinal l'Azyr, who consolidated clerical power, rebuilt the French navy and introduced various pragmatic measures to restore French military potence; this included Peter the Great-style widespread state-owned military manufactories. Then he started the Fifty Years War; France made very limited long-term territorial gains, but wrecked two of its main enemies badly (Flandres and Britain were occupied and thoroughly devastated; ethnic and religious minorities were used as enforcers, traditional institutions were destroyed, fields were salted, cities razed and industries shipped back to France) and fought the third one to a standstill. Peace only came after his death, and though French diplomatic isolation was worsened further and many past enemities were worsened considerably, no new anti-French coalitions have been formed yet; the devastating war on the Flemish-Lorrainean front has proved that any attempts to finish off France would cost way too much in all regards, without a real guarantee of victory.
Since then France had grown rotten and uncompetitive, devolving to a theocratic oligarchy again. It has managed to strike some pragmatic deals with Denmark and Tver though, fighting the Holy Roman Empire to a draw in an 1840s war. Perhaps it can modernise and reform before its internal weakness is exploited by its old enemies. Perhaps not.
that thing in Germany
The House of Leiningen is proud to present to you the Holy Roman Empire. It has nearly disintegrated in the 13th century, but after the 14th the aforementioned House begun building a strong powerbase for itself, rallying the German princes in a religious war with Avignon Catholic France later in that century and in the 15th century. Prestige from that war, plus a system of dynastic marriages and adroit manipulation of the German feudal houses had allowed the House of Leiningen to eventually build the Holy Roman Empire. After the events of the late 17th/early 18th century (the Great Mediterranean War), the Holy Roman Empire had firmly assumed the position of Europe's leading power and the hegemon of Central Europe. Thus started the Pax Germannica, which lasted until the 1870s-1880s (Age of Nationalism, drawn-out wars, succession crisis, ethnic uprisings and the Italian Revolution had hit the Empire during that period; right now it has recovered in some regards, but is yet to reclaim its hegemonic position).
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strongly Roman-Catholic Australia?
It was a traditionally pious colony from the start (an English Catholic religious order played a large part in its foundation). When the Fifty Years War destroyed the British empire and devastated its homelands, it obviously caused a cultural crisis of identity as well in the Kingdom of Arcadia's early days. That and a tradition of religious dissent culminated in the separation of the Anglican Church from the Roman Catholic one, in Arcadia and the Plate; the Australians, however, being already in ideological contention with Arcadia (disagreements on the "legacy of the British", diverging paths of political evolution, as well as more real disputes over African and South American colonies), grew even more loyal to Rome thanks to the element of spite.
There are other reasons as well.
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Informationsayswhat?
That was mostly part of the intellectual flowering associated with "Pax Germannica". It includes stuff like the theory of relativity.
So reasonably one could presume that said experimental methodology is also ahead of the general tech. level.
When did the 50 years war take place (so I know when to split the British family tree to get an Australian monarch)?
It took place in 1724-1774, the British royal family is utterly different from OTL for a wide array of reasons (but just the fact that the people that were born in OTL wouldn't be born ITTL after the divergence has set in sufficiently even discounting the greater implications of the butterfly effect will do) and Australia is technically a democracy (huh).
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No relevant air forces exist yet, right?
That'd be a fair assumption.
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Was Portugal neutral-ish during the 50 years war (if not, which side did it take)?
It was on the British/Imperial side.
Can I know how did Italy reunite?
Long story, but the present incarnation was born out of a relatively recent nationalist rebellion against the Holy Roman Empire and the aristocratic puppet government of Italy that was created by the Imperials after the Mediterranean War which had largely washed away the previous (divided) political order in Italy.
Was discussed in the 3rd alternate history thread, but basically, it was a 17th century war born out of Egypt's bid for Mediterranean hegemony and the restoration of the Roman Empire under the Egyptian king Alexander. After making great progress in the Balkans and in southern and central Italy, the Egyptians finally met their match in the revitalised Holy Roman Empire, which ultimately (after a grinding and complex war) managed to halt their progress and expel them from central Italy. A truce then neutralised the central parts of Italy; after the death of Alexander Egyptian control over southern Italy collapsed and so German influence prevailed.
ow was the italian situation before the Mediterranean war?
Divided between small and middle-sized principalities and city-states, some of them nominally parts of the HRE. Note that the Papal States were much stronger than in OTL, while the Kingdom of Naples never even existed.
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and where did Monferrat came from?
It was one of the old principalities. Due to its geographic position and relations with the HRE it never was submerged into any other polity and had developed a distinct culture of its own, strongly influenced by the French emigres.
Mainly similar to OTL. Venice was much stronger than in OTL on a global scale, though, until it's seemingly abrupt collapse in the 17th century.
ow was Venetian empire in this Timeline?
Thanks to the success of the Crusades, it has, from the 12th century onwards, gained great commercial power in the conquered lands and beyond, for a while being the key power in the Indian Ocean. With time it has grown overstretched, stagnant and decadent; but it could've lingered on for much longer had Alexander not seized power in Egypt. After doing so, he rooted out Venetian influence and confiscated Venetian assets, crippling Venice's economic power and so paving the way for his early Mediterranean campaigns. Venice was then also beaten at the sea by the Egyptians and was unable to resist being practically consumed into the Holy Roman Empire a few years later.
The modern Italian Republic has incredibly little to do with the old Venice, and its presence nowadays is quite negligible, though there is a colony/trade outpost in Arabia and some commercial ties with the Eastern Mediterranean and Persian Gulf countries. Italy has some potential, but is pretty poor at the moment.
1. How did it come to be as it is in its present state?
Started out as one of the petty principalities in the old Askoldich Polania (south Rus), becoming virtually independent by the early 12th century. Its power waxed and waned for a long period; the Mongol invasion in the early 13th century was detrimental in its immediate effects, but as Chernigov came out of it relatively intact and had managed to cooperate with the Mongols later in the century, it ultimately was able to reunite Polania, though the Grand Prince's power in many regions was nominal and it was more of a feudal confederation in the Late Middle Ages. Since the 16th century the Chernigovians had made attempts to advance into the Balkans, leading to intermittent warfare against the Hungarians. Though the 17th century saw it reformed into a centralised state, and considerable gains were made to the east (against the post-Mongol statelets and various nomadic tribes) and the Grand Princes had also managed to hold their own against the Tverians while also carving bits and pieces out of Poland (no Poland-Lithuania in this world, but there was a pretty big Kingdom of Poland in the Late Middle/Early Modern Age), no long-term success was to be achieved in the Balkans; even when the Hungarians could be beaten, the Bulgarian principalities were pretty resistant and the logistics made their effective conquest impossible.
Things changed in the 18th/early 19th centuries, with advances in agriculture and plain old population growth (as well as the final defeat of local and nearby tribes) allowing for the highly successful colonisation and development of the southern regions. The fleet that was built to destroy the Anatolian pirates established Chernigovian hegemony in the Black Sea (Georgia is essentially a puppet state, for the record, and there is a half-protectorate, half-colony in northern Anatolia, as you might have noticed). The middle of the 19th century saw Hungary implode like it never imploded before, and the Chernigovians seemed poised to establish their hegemony over the Balkans. They made good progress at first, imposing puppet rulers in Bulgaria, but then things went wrong; an uprising in the Caucasus and a new war with Tver which was scarcely fought to a draw (the envelopment and near-capture of Chernigov itself leading to the capital semi-move) had distracted the Chernigovians from the Balkans, and the Serbs were then able to destroy most of what they had accomplished (south of the Danube, at least; the more direct gains made north of the river held), taking Constantinople and staying there with Imperial help. Thus Chernigov's ambitions were frustrated, fueling the aforementioned irredentism. Since then, it was preparing for another go.
A very large Armenian empire. Its rather plain, really, apart from being a large and strong modern Armenian state. Well, it is also a pretty old state with a continuous dynasty and debated religious affiliation, and it used to be an Egyptian vassal, though right now it is more of a Chernigovian ally. Could be made into something greater given the right leadership and some luck, I suppose; the Serbian example is certainly inspiring.
Australia (Australia being fairly similar to OTL USA in numerous key regards, though far from identical ofcourse)
hat nation would I lead, save instigating a coup against Thlayli ?
As was already said, the Holy Roman Empire. It certainly needs a good leader as it is in a bit of a crisis right now, having lost several periphereal vassal states and principalities after the Italian Rising. The Pax Germanica is crumbling and it needs you to shore it up!
Wait...Japan has been slaughtering Christians?
"Has been"? It still is, though this is becoming somewhat problematic as the surviving "Kirishitans" had gotten both scarce and skilled at hiding.
As for uniting Europe again, its in the middle of the Age of Nationalism and full of great powers,
None on such a large scale. The Vietnamese have been imitating their Japanese allies closely, though, while the New Caliphate (the state in Arabia) has massacred the Christian colonists in Hejjaz comparatively recently.
What about in Scandinavia? - I had a bias there back in the early days (Finland, Sweden-Norway, Sweden, etc.).
Norway should work well; it is very aggressive, militaristic and vigorous here, and has some incipient pan-Scandinavian ambitions.
About that timeline, whats the ethnic make up of the Portuguese Empire, considering if demographics followed the OTL they would have like 1/5th of population spain did when in came to colonizing America...
The colonies are obviously not very racially pure. Mexico in particular has seen a lot of intermarriage (more than in OTL due to no such strict blood purity standards as existed in Spain), and the other colonies have more native communities surviving outside of the Portuguese-dominated coastal areas; this especially goes for the Phillipines, though there cultural conquest has occured similarily to OTL. Chinese territories are Chinese-majority, though cultural identity is somewhat confused and widely-ranging. Also one must note that there are Flemings and Englishmen in the respective colonies of Flandres and Britain that were captured after the Fifty Years War, and British and other Iberian refugee communities in Mexico and the Carribean.
also what happened with the conquest of mexico - Portugal was very much a sea-based power, they never went far from the coasts in their conquests so I would posit the decay of the native states and gradual reaching out from the coasts rather the Conquestidors wham bam campaign.
You are, ofcourse, forgetting about a little country known as Brazil; and that one didn't have so many wealthy native cities and had much worse interior terrain. Still, it was noticeably more gradual than the OTL Spanish conquest.
I was wondering, das: what are Sweden, Denmark, and Norway like in respect to each other, i.e. power, economy, populace, ethnicity - even a little bit of history? I might be interested in one or the other, or even the other other...
Ethnicity is not much different from OTL and population is guessable; though there are some changes, ofcourse, such as a greater ethnic Swedish presence in Finland (Swedes and half-Swedes are the majority by now), and the differences in Norway (it never was united with Denmark for any meaningful period of time, so it has retained its own culture and language in a more intact state; also Norway has a higher population - more land, less foreign restrictions, and ofcourse refugees from the Fifty Years War that figured that it is better to risk a frostbite than a "God's purifying flame"). Denmark is somewhat poorer than in OTL, but is more militarised and has for the last few centuries been fighting irredentist wars with the Holy Roman Empire, not really very succesfully. And Sweden is nice and quiet, with not much of a military tradition; it is increasingly pushed around by its more aggressive neighbours, and so increasingly leaning towards the Holy Roman Empire, being under strong German cultural influence and in dynastic ties with the Leiningens as of right now.
The Republic of New Albion is in OTL California. The rest are right, but Qing China should probably be called the Qing Empire instead, as it isn't very Chinese. Xin Ming Dynasty might or might not be called Xin Ming China, or simply China; it is very nationalistic, more nationalistic than dynastic.
Now, tell us about these fun-sounding religious wars. It looks like Catholic schism in France.
That much is true; France is the only country left that still follows the Avignon Catholic Church (which had by now diverged from the Roman one in doctrine and theology as well as in politics). During the 14th century a more violent and long-term version of the OTL schism had occured, and a series of fierce religious wars ensued (these were fought all over the greater part of Europe; that was when the French had conquered or reconquered most of their present Iberian holdings, but their campaigns in Lorraine and Italy were less resultative); by the 16th century even Hungary had abandoned the ACC (with the Angevin downfall there after a serious feudal war), but France remained stalwart, increasingly narrowminded, isolationist and hardline. 16th and 17th centuries were characterised by a feudal-clerical oligarchy presiding over the king and the Avignon Pope (both mere figureheads by tradition), with the clerical elements increasingly important; but it was the 18th century that went down in French history as the Age of the Cardinals, as three particularily strong cardinals followed in nearly-uninterrupted succession, reducing their internal enemies to corpses or instruments of their will.
The most prominent - and scary - of these cardinals was Cardinal l'Azyr, who consolidated clerical power, rebuilt the French navy and introduced various pragmatic measures to restore French military potence; this included Peter the Great-style widespread state-owned military manufactories. Then he started the Fifty Years War; France made very limited long-term territorial gains, but wrecked two of its main enemies badly (Flandres and Britain were occupied and thoroughly devastated; ethnic and religious minorities were used as enforcers, traditional institutions were destroyed, fields were salted, cities razed and industries shipped back to France) and fought the third one to a standstill. Peace only came after his death, and though French diplomatic isolation was worsened further and many past enemities were worsened considerably, no new anti-French coalitions have been formed yet; the devastating war on the Flemish-Lorrainean front has proved that any attempts to finish off France would cost way too much in all regards, without a real guarantee of victory.
Since then France had grown rotten and uncompetitive, devolving to a theocratic oligarchy again. It has managed to strike some pragmatic deals with Denmark and Tver though, fighting the Holy Roman Empire to a draw in an 1840s war. Perhaps it can modernise and reform before its internal weakness is exploited by its old enemies. Perhaps not.
that thing in Germany
The House of Leiningen is proud to present to you the Holy Roman Empire. It has nearly disintegrated in the 13th century, but after the 14th the aforementioned House begun building a strong powerbase for itself, rallying the German princes in a religious war with Avignon Catholic France later in that century and in the 15th century. Prestige from that war, plus a system of dynastic marriages and adroit manipulation of the German feudal houses had allowed the House of Leiningen to eventually build the Holy Roman Empire. After the events of the late 17th/early 18th century (the Great Mediterranean War), the Holy Roman Empire had firmly assumed the position of Europe's leading power and the hegemon of Central Europe. Thus started the Pax Germannica, which lasted until the 1870s-1880s (Age of Nationalism, drawn-out wars, succession crisis, ethnic uprisings and the Italian Revolution had hit the Empire during that period; right now it has recovered in some regards, but is yet to reclaim its hegemonic position).
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strongly Roman-Catholic Australia?
It was a traditionally pious colony from the start (an English Catholic religious order played a large part in its foundation). When the Fifty Years War destroyed the British empire and devastated its homelands, it obviously caused a cultural crisis of identity as well in the Kingdom of Arcadia's early days. That and a tradition of religious dissent culminated in the separation of the Anglican Church from the Roman Catholic one, in Arcadia and the Plate; the Australians, however, being already in ideological contention with Arcadia (disagreements on the "legacy of the British", diverging paths of political evolution, as well as more real disputes over African and South American colonies), grew even more loyal to Rome thanks to the element of spite.
There are other reasons as well.
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Informationsayswhat?
That was mostly part of the intellectual flowering associated with "Pax Germannica". It includes stuff like the theory of relativity.
So reasonably one could presume that said experimental methodology is also ahead of the general tech. level.
When did the 50 years war take place (so I know when to split the British family tree to get an Australian monarch)?
It took place in 1724-1774, the British royal family is utterly different from OTL for a wide array of reasons (but just the fact that the people that were born in OTL wouldn't be born ITTL after the divergence has set in sufficiently even discounting the greater implications of the butterfly effect will do) and Australia is technically a democracy (huh).
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No relevant air forces exist yet, right?
That'd be a fair assumption.
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Was Portugal neutral-ish during the 50 years war (if not, which side did it take)?
It was on the British/Imperial side.
Can I know how did Italy reunite?
Long story, but the present incarnation was born out of a relatively recent nationalist rebellion against the Holy Roman Empire and the aristocratic puppet government of Italy that was created by the Imperials after the Mediterranean War which had largely washed away the previous (divided) political order in Italy.
Was discussed in the 3rd alternate history thread, but basically, it was a 17th century war born out of Egypt's bid for Mediterranean hegemony and the restoration of the Roman Empire under the Egyptian king Alexander. After making great progress in the Balkans and in southern and central Italy, the Egyptians finally met their match in the revitalised Holy Roman Empire, which ultimately (after a grinding and complex war) managed to halt their progress and expel them from central Italy. A truce then neutralised the central parts of Italy; after the death of Alexander Egyptian control over southern Italy collapsed and so German influence prevailed.
ow was the italian situation before the Mediterranean war?
Divided between small and middle-sized principalities and city-states, some of them nominally parts of the HRE. Note that the Papal States were much stronger than in OTL, while the Kingdom of Naples never even existed.
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and where did Monferrat came from?
It was one of the old principalities. Due to its geographic position and relations with the HRE it never was submerged into any other polity and had developed a distinct culture of its own, strongly influenced by the French emigres.
Mainly similar to OTL. Venice was much stronger than in OTL on a global scale, though, until it's seemingly abrupt collapse in the 17th century.
ow was Venetian empire in this Timeline?
Thanks to the success of the Crusades, it has, from the 12th century onwards, gained great commercial power in the conquered lands and beyond, for a while being the key power in the Indian Ocean. With time it has grown overstretched, stagnant and decadent; but it could've lingered on for much longer had Alexander not seized power in Egypt. After doing so, he rooted out Venetian influence and confiscated Venetian assets, crippling Venice's economic power and so paving the way for his early Mediterranean campaigns. Venice was then also beaten at the sea by the Egyptians and was unable to resist being practically consumed into the Holy Roman Empire a few years later.
The modern Italian Republic has incredibly little to do with the old Venice, and its presence nowadays is quite negligible, though there is a colony/trade outpost in Arabia and some commercial ties with the Eastern Mediterranean and Persian Gulf countries. Italy has some potential, but is pretty poor at the moment.
1. How did it come to be as it is in its present state?
Started out as one of the petty principalities in the old Askoldich Polania (south Rus), becoming virtually independent by the early 12th century. Its power waxed and waned for a long period; the Mongol invasion in the early 13th century was detrimental in its immediate effects, but as Chernigov came out of it relatively intact and had managed to cooperate with the Mongols later in the century, it ultimately was able to reunite Polania, though the Grand Prince's power in many regions was nominal and it was more of a feudal confederation in the Late Middle Ages. Since the 16th century the Chernigovians had made attempts to advance into the Balkans, leading to intermittent warfare against the Hungarians. Though the 17th century saw it reformed into a centralised state, and considerable gains were made to the east (against the post-Mongol statelets and various nomadic tribes) and the Grand Princes had also managed to hold their own against the Tverians while also carving bits and pieces out of Poland (no Poland-Lithuania in this world, but there was a pretty big Kingdom of Poland in the Late Middle/Early Modern Age), no long-term success was to be achieved in the Balkans; even when the Hungarians could be beaten, the Bulgarian principalities were pretty resistant and the logistics made their effective conquest impossible.
Things changed in the 18th/early 19th centuries, with advances in agriculture and plain old population growth (as well as the final defeat of local and nearby tribes) allowing for the highly successful colonisation and development of the southern regions. The fleet that was built to destroy the Anatolian pirates established Chernigovian hegemony in the Black Sea (Georgia is essentially a puppet state, for the record, and there is a half-protectorate, half-colony in northern Anatolia, as you might have noticed). The middle of the 19th century saw Hungary implode like it never imploded before, and the Chernigovians seemed poised to establish their hegemony over the Balkans. They made good progress at first, imposing puppet rulers in Bulgaria, but then things went wrong; an uprising in the Caucasus and a new war with Tver which was scarcely fought to a draw (the envelopment and near-capture of Chernigov itself leading to the capital semi-move) had distracted the Chernigovians from the Balkans, and the Serbs were then able to destroy most of what they had accomplished (south of the Danube, at least; the more direct gains made north of the river held), taking Constantinople and staying there with Imperial help. Thus Chernigov's ambitions were frustrated, fueling the aforementioned irredentism. Since then, it was preparing for another go.
silver 2039
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2. What are its national ambitions?
Ideally, hegemony over southeastern Europe; Bulgaria and Tsargrad/Constantinople are particularly emphasised by the irredentists, inasmuch as the Polanian princes used to rule that area for a while. Anatolia, Caucasus and the Golden Horde are also natural targets for expansion. It's not just nationalism, ofcourse; the Chernigovian economy basically demands growth, and the south is the most natural direction for it to expand into.
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3. What is its relations with Tver?
Pretty bad; the Tverians always were pretty aggressive, and currently are keen on the idea of uniting Eastern Europe. Their economy is in a boom phase too, and their government is sort of like that of Wilhelm II, only less reasonable and more militaristic and expansionist. Then again, there had always been reconciliationist parties in both countries; in the event of a strong common threat, an alliance might become possible, but not right now.
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4. What powers the economy and how industrialized is Chernigov?
It has been industrialising rapidly, especially recently, though agriculture still is very important in a good way. Note that the south and the east are more industrial, while the north is generally more agrarian, though it has its industrial centres as well. Also, maritime commerce is very important, which is another reason to go for the Straits.
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5. How is the government of Chernigov set up? Total autocracy or a more enlightened despotism?
Parliamentary monarchy, but with a strong royal prerogative.
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Any overly important leaders in its history would also be cool to note.
Askold and Dir (especially Askold) are something like founding fathers, having created the Polanian state (or so the records say, anyway). The present dynasty can trace its roots to Askold, though they aren't the main line by far. It had split off from that line under a Prince Mstislav I; hence the dynasty is called the Mstislavichi. Sadly, Mstislav was pretty unremarkable.
Vsevolod II was the one who carefully played the Mongols, his own boyars and other factions in the late 13th century, paving the way to Chernigov's replacement of Kiev and unification of Polania.
Izyaslav I the Wrathful ruled in the early 17th century. He killed a lot of people (mostly boyars, heretics, Catholics and Turkic tribal leaders) in exciting and painful ways and, along with some capable advisers, forced through various reforms that led to the creation of a centralised state with a new, loyal nobility and an improved army.
Mstislav IV ruled in the early 19th century and introduced numerous modernising social, economical, admistrative and agrarian reforms to stimulate economical development of the southern regions, as well as the industrialisation in the general. He was also responsible for the creation of a Chernigovian reichstag and is considered the father of the fleet (there was a fleet earlier, ofcourse, but it was pretty pathetic). He died young, before he could carry out any more great projects, or make any serious blunders, so he is greatly beloved by most political factions to this day.
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das, what's the internal situation of Italy? Economy, welfare, and other thing like this. And the tech level?
It's pretty poor, though partly industrialised. Living conditions are mediocre at best, for most of the population at least. Technologically it is somewhat lagging behind most other European nations, though not by too far.
How is structured Italian governement?
Presidential Republic.
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What's the political setting of governement and population?
The government is highly nationalistic; the population is divided between highly-conservative (though mainly republican) rural dwellers and the population of the industrial centres that is increasingly moving towards socialism.
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Does the nation and population have irredentist aim to remaining northern Italy and Sicily?
Sure.
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How are the relations with Sicily?
Pretty bad; there is a fairly strong underground pro-unification movement there, and the royal government is not amused.
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How generally are Italian relations with other nations?
Relations with the HRE are horrible, given that Italy was born out of a rebellion against the HRE. Irredentism hasn't made it any better, and has led to further complications with Montferrat. Italy scarcely has any allies at the moment (lots of prospective ones, though), but it doesn't have any enemies other than the three already mentioned either.
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How's the religious setting?
It's pretty funny, on one hand the population is strongly Catholic, as is the government, but the latter at least is frequently clashing with the Pope, even though the latter has by now agreed to renounce all territorial claims, paving the way to reconciliation.
As such, Das, would you mind giving a recount of the status of Flanders and how, exactly, it came to dominate over the more northerly Dutch?
Technically, the distinctions between the north and the south were never as strong as they had become in OTL; Flanders by now is more of a general term for the entire region, not to mention, you know, the nation name. Not that there isn't some regionalism, ofcourse. Still, it was united from the time it first became independent from the HRE, and was only briefly fragmented at one point afterwards (during and immediately after the Fifty Years War).
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Portugal does look a little overpowered
Portugal is much more powerful than in OTL. Lots of reasons.
What is the current cultural atmosphere? Is it largely liberal in line with the OTL Netherlands, or more agrarian and conservative in line with OTL Flanders?
The port cities are quite liberal, but on the whole the country is noticeably more conservative than OTL Netherlands.
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(I can't stay online for too long since I'm on vacation; what did I get wrong?)
The Japanese and the Portuguese had began their intrusions into China independent of the Jurchens in the 17th century. The Qing still were ultimately able to conquer northern and central China, but the south remained in the hands of the warlords, while the greater part of the coasts fell under foreign domination. The Japanese and the Qing also fought a lot, though indecisively. The more recent Xin Ming uprising had pushed the Qing out of central China, and reunited the south, also pushing the Japanese and the Portuguese back somewhat. After the Xin Ming advance was stopped and the counteroffensives failed to make any significant progress, the war more or less died out, but for some residual skirmishing.
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Also, what is the political situation?
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What is the overall governmental system?
It is a moderate constitutional parliamentary republic.
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How centralised/regional is the power structure?
It can be described as federal, or even confederal (probably best put somewhere in between).
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Do Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the Hague, and the other Dutch cities have much influence, or is power mainly concentrated in the Flemish provinces?
The Hague (which has become a proper city much, much earlier than in OTL - you could probably understand why) is pretty important, as is Amsterdam. Still, the Dutch region as a whole is often regarded as somewhat backwater (not unlike some parts of New England in OMD, as far as I could understand), though it has greatly grown in importance since being relatively less devastated in the Fifty Years War.
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What is the ethnic/racial structure/balance in Brazil?
The native populations are relatively more intact than in OTL, whereas the black population is considerably lesser. The white population is ultimately predominant, though mainly concentrated in the coastal and near-coastal regions, and mainly consists of Flemish colonists and French and "Spanish" emigres (most of whom are third generation at the least, and very divergent from France culturally by now, though not assimilated either). There are, ofcourse, lots of other minorities as well. There is little in the way of official discrimination, but the blacks (who still form a major group) still tend to suffer from the unofficial variety. Most natives aren't integrated into the society at all.
1) From which real-life empire did this current one spring? Or are the origins of the nation more complicated?
Heh, a little of both. The (First, and historical) Malinese Empire has fared better than in OTL, nipping Songhay in the bud (mainly an unabashed butterfly effect, but there were also all kinds of fluctuations in the trade network that ultimately came to favour Mali more than in OTL). It eventually stagnated and fell apart into warring states, some of which were also overwhelmed by barbarians (17th century). Eventually, one barbarian (specifically, Bambara) warlord was able to reconquer the imperial core, skillfully applying what European technology, tactics and military advisers he was able to procure thanks to his ties with Portugal. Eventually, his successors officially restored the Malinese Empire, claiming descent from the first one (and by then, they were indeed assimilated enough). Note that by now that dynasty had lost power, and a new one has arisen from the traditional Mandinka aristocracy; it was a fairly smooth transition, though, in part thanks to the intermarriage.
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2) Why is it still independent? Who or what has assisted it in retaining its independence?
Well, part of the reason is that it's too big and too far inland; conquering it would be very expensive. Also, note that Africa in general has been paid much less attention by the European powers than in OTL at this period; most powers tend to have many other concerns. That said, it has also been a traditional ally of Portugal (though by now, Portuguese economic colonialism has become a concern), and it is relatively modern for a native African state (which still isn't all that much, but makes it somewhat more challenging for any invaders).
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3) How much and in what areas has it embraced modern technology? Who has been supplying said technology, if anyone?
I think I already answered that accidentally. It has mainly embraced military technology, though some other elements have been integrated as well, though not as much (efforts at industrialisation have been ongoing for the last decade, but without much success). And, ofcourse, the main supplier is Portugal.
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1. How is the current army composed and how modernized (and large) is it?
It is a large modern standing army. Most of it is infantry, but both cavalry and artillery are present in major amounts as well.
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2. How is the current navy composed and how modernized (and large) is it?
It is a medium-sized fleet with several Battleships, and most late 19th century ship classes below that represented as well. It is mostly modern.
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3. Is the racial makeup homogenous, mixed into three or four main parts, or a serious melting pot?
I'm not sure if the racial, rather than ethnic, makeup is a very big matter here. As to the ethnic makeup, it is mainly homogeneous, except in the eastern half, and especially the south-east. In the east we have a considerable Buddhist Tartar minority, and in the southeast we have lots and lots of different Muslim North Caucasian ethnicities, though by now the Slavic colonists have become something like a third of the local population. It is unlikely that they would outnumber the locals any time soon, though. Lastly, there are Wallachians, Hungarians and Poles in the far west. Most other minorities are more or less assimilated, with the obvious exception of the Omnipresent Ones in most large cities, especially Odessa and Theodosia (in Crimea).
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4. I think this might have been answered but I can't find it...what is the predominant religion?
Non-Uniate Orthodox Christianity, which is as of now headed by the Patriarch of Kiev. Georgia is the only other state with Non-Uniate Orthodox Christianity as its official religion, but most of Bulgaria is Non-Uniate as well, and most every OTL Orthodox regions may be assumed to contain at least some Non-Uniate communities.
@das The Knights of the Nile are the guys in Ceylon right? They never changed their name or something?
Yes. By now the Nile has attained a great symbolic value for the knightly order.
Mali: It is probably valuable to point out that their government is best described as a combination of a (primitive) parliamentary monarchy and a tribal confederacy. Their cavalry is stronger than implied, and there is also a noteworthy camelry corps. The navy seems right enough; infrastructure is probably one level higher.
1) How has a stronger Egypt and a lack of strong colonization nearby impacted Ethiopia? Is it much the same as it was in real life, or has it changed significantly?
Significantly changed - it has been in significantly greater contact with the European civilisation for much longer than in OTL. It is in union with the Roman Catholic Church (and has been for centuries), and has been an important ally of Venice and Egypt during the spread of the Crusades into the Indian Ocean (14th-16th centuries, basically). By the 17th century it has decisively defeated its Islamic enemies and entered a veritable golden age, absorbing many Catholic cultural elements as well as much European technology. It also managed to prosper economically from the trade that goes through the Red Sea - even moreso after the construction of the Canal. It has been somewhat stagnant as of late, and not too fast at absorbing the newest technological developments, but it still is very advanced by African standards.
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2) How modernized is Ethiopia, and in what areas are they most modern?
It is lagging behind now, but not by too much (compare with the better parts of late 19th century Ottoman Empire, only not nearly as inefficient). Military technology is a must-have, but there has been some (more successful) industrial development as well.
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3) How are Ethipian-Egyptian relations?
Traditionally very good, but declining now.
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4) How does Ethiopia feel towards the Portuguese, as they are the only nation with nearby colonial possessions?
Traditional and standing trade partners. Also, as of now Ethiopia is moving away from the Egyptian sphere influence into the Portuguese one.
Technically, Egypt has colonies close by too.
1) What are the current relations between Portugal and Japan?
Utterly horrible. The Japanese are massacring Christian converts and missionaries and putting as many limits on European trade as possible; the Portuguese keep trying to supplant the Japanese in their provinces economically and ally with local crime rings.
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2) How different is Siam from how it was in real life?
Compared to most other countries, it is quite similar, a higher percentage of Christians, a different dynasty and an agreement with Portugal put aside. Oh, and also Siam has been expanding quite ruthlessly in the last few decades. You could say that it is much more independent in its foreign policy than in OTL.
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1) Somehow I get the feeling that Egypt happens to be Christian. Why?
Because I've implied as much on many previous occasions, I guess. Can't you sort out your own feelings by yourself?
Anyway, yes, it got conquered by crusaders, due to the Fatimids holding out for longer than in OTL but also becoming more stagnant than ever and eventually falling apart impressively when invaded by Norman and other European nobles in alliance with Venice in the 12th century.
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2) Moving from my predicted answer to the first question, did Egypt gain its territory in the Middle East during the Crusades?
No; and actually, the Kingdom of Jerusalem was the predominant Crusader state in the first two centuries after these were carved out of the central regions of the shattered Dar al-Islam. As the Kingdom of Egypt consolidated, took definite shape and survived some early crises, though, the balance of power began to shift in its favour. After the Levantine Crusaders were weakened first by the Il-Khanate and then by the Turko-Arabic Tutushid Empire over the 14th-15th centuries, the Egyptians were able to more or less peacefully integrate most Crusader states, and later razed Edessa (which became the rallying point for the enemies of the Alexandrian Crown). Then again, that went on in the midst of a second wave of Crusades aimed against the Tutushids and other new Islamic enemies, so what you said partly applies.
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3) Is the nation that controls the interior of the Arabian Peninsula still Muslim?
It is called the Jadfdid Caliphate, and its rulers are officially committed to restoring and maintaining the complete purity of Islam. It may be assumed to be Taoist.
Is that capital Würzburg?
Fulda seems more like it.
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-The rulers are of the House of Leiningen, correct?
Yes.
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-When'd they put in the Kiel Canal, and why?
1864, for the sake of easier transit. Also, in avoidance of crazy Danes.
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-Would you mind doing a brief recap of the HRE's history (emphasis on political natch) from the divergence? (I know some of the basics, mostly centering on Alexander's war of conquest, and I remember stuff from the two question sessions in the Alternate History threads, but much of the earlier part of the second millennium is still blank.) Sort of like what you did with Azale and Chernigov.
EDIT: Forgot to add something in here.
The HRE is much harder to summarise than Chernigov. Still, I guess I could do a really basic rundown.
There were no Hohenstauffens and the HRE began to disintegrate earlier but slower and less spectacularly. The Imperial crown in the 13th-15th centuries passed back and forth between different dynasties; some major ones, like the Wittelsbachs or the von Hollands, still emerged to gain great power and prestige, but none managed to consolidate their power properly, and all were prone to infighting, as was the Empire itself. Meanwhile, from the 14th century on, the religiously-coloured wars with France made life more and more difficult for the HRE's lesser principalities. The southwestern statelets eventually formed the League of Stuttgart to counter the French; the House of Leiningen emerged as the leader of the League, and has used its subsequent martial successes for political leverage. In the early 16th century, the Leiningens finally gained the throne; at first they didn't seem much more tenacious than their predecessors, but they were able to use dynastic marriages and political manipulation to build up an impressive power base and keep everyone else either irrelevant or on their side. It took some doing and a serious civil war, but by the 17th century the Holy Roman Empire was hereditary, recentralised and ready to fight various Slavs, Italians, Hungarians and Egyptians in addition to their usual repertoire of Frenchmen and Danes (the latter having used the earlier turmoil to expand into northern Germany before getting thrown out of there in the 16th century). The rest you probably already know.
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-What's the HRE's political structure, i.e. how decentralized (anything like the old Circles?), is the succession officially hereditary or elective, that sort of thing.
It is actually rather similar to the Second Reich, though slightly less centralised. And the succession is hereditary.
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-What cultural minorities exist within the HRE, where, what religions do they follow, and how well have they been assimilated?
Firstly, the Jews (who are present in considerable numbers (largest concentration in the world, and bigger than in OTL due to refugees from France and such) and are only partly assimilated) are practicing various kinds of Judaism, but virtually everyone is Roman Catholic with differing degrees of devotion and often fairly divergent beliefs and practices. Apart from some Italian and Polish minorities and the semi-assimilated Czechs, most of the population is what is called German (for a somewhat broader definition than in OTL); note, however, that there is some extreme cultural regionalism, especially in Bavaria, Frisia, Alsace and Prussia. And ofcourse there are assorted natives in colonies, including Livonia; degrees of assimilation may vary wildly.
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-Are there any irredentist claims that the HRE has or particular rivalries with other powers?
Not that much in the way of irredentism, though possibly some with regards to Italy. As to particular rivalries, France is the rival of anyone within reach, Denmark is incredibly annoying and the HRE fought Tver for centuries over the eastern lands.
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-How did the colonization of the Orinoco territory (and Belize, I guess, but that's not as important) happen - how did the HRE acquire it, what are the social strata in the colony, how profitable is it, and how stable is the political situation there (any independence movements or native problems?)?
Back in the 16th century, the Imperial merchants first established themselves in the area (and in some other places too). It was only in the late 17th-early 18th centuries that these outposts and lesser colonies were turned into a proper Imperial Colony, expanding into the inlands. The population is mostly German and Jewish; natives are mostly insignificant by now. It is mostly an average settler colony, and is moderately profitable. For now the population is mostly content with the considerable self-government it has been granted thus far.
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-What major economic concerns does the HRE have in other countries, what countries, and of what import to the economy?
It has a considerable economic presence in Poland, Hungary, Croatia and Serbo-Romea, and less in various other areas, such as foreign colonies; and trade is ofcourse of great import for the economy, though not as much as one might expect. Also, there was a major recent economical crisis, so...
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-What are the status of those Hungarian, Illyrian, and Polish states and their relations to the HRE - puppets or something?
Poland was traditionally a puppet or even a part of the HRE; it has relatively recently broken away and has been trying to retain its independence, though ultimately backing down from its attempts to make an alliance with Tver. The status is uncertain.
Hungary has an unpopular Imperial puppet government.
Croatia is independent, but definitely pro-Imperial in allegiance and foreign policy.
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-Why didn't the Swiss ever pop up (or if they did, why were they reabsorbed into the HRE)?
The Forest Cantons never did rise up because they never lost their privileges in the first place (well, subsequently all those things had gone through a revision, but that was later). They remained just another part of the HRE, as far as we are concerned.
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-How well militarized is the HRE (i.e. size of army per capita and how well it has performed in recent years), how modern is their amry, and who controls it within the political structure of the empire?
The HRE has a very large and well-trained, mostly modern army, controlled by the Holy Roman Emperor and his General Staff.
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-How about their navy - has it been fairly well developed and modernized, what is its size, and who has control of the navy?
The navy is pretty middling in most regards, though it is relatively modern. It is under the same general military command, though it is not integrated with the army.
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-Are the colonies and outposts in Africa and South America primarily military outposts for use by the navy, trade posts, or some other form of colony (see the previous discussion on colonies in a certain other thread)?
Orinoco aside, colonies are trade outposts and coaling stations.
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-What events have happened most recently in the HRE - any political shocks or anarchism or conflicts with other countries?
A major "shock", to say the least, has occurred some three-two decades ago, when, after the death of the Kaiser, a series of nationalist uprisings led to the independence of Poland and Italy despite the Imperial military's best efforts. Subsequent reform efforts were undermined and partly derailed by the growth of a worker's movement, which was partly thwarted by social reforms.
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-Do socialist or communist (or Egalitist ) groups exist within the HRE, and how are they treated by the government and the populace at large?
Arbeitist, yes. Their influence is waning, and the more radical ones are illegal; others are grudgingly tolerated.
Oklahoma is a Native American confederacy; its relations with Portugal were never clearly formulated, but Albion is more or less an ally. And it has been around for decades now; the population still is too low to warrant any major expansion. Lastly, that's not what you are supposed to put under
Das, what is the situation in the Flemish Congo like? Is it a brutalist state a la the OTL Congo Free State or is it more in line with a "traditional" African colony?
More of the latter.
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How large is the European population there?
Fairly small and concentrated in the coastal areas.
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Why is the colony so concentrated along the coast, i.e. why weren't there massive expansion efforts into the interior along the lines of Henry Morton Stanley's in OTL?
Such expansion efforts have only become possible - and indeed started - very recently. Plus there was a different focus in the Flemish colonial policies overall.
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How did the Flemish Congo come into existence in the first place?
They established some trade outposts, and alternately warred or traded with the locals. In the 19th century, with the beginning of major colonial expansion into Africa's interior, the Flemings finally got the upper hand and annexed Kongo.
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Similarly, what is the correspongind situation in Mozambique?
Similar to OTL in some regards, only the Flemings had paid much more attention to the colony than the Portuguese did, and so it is more developed and has a higher European population.
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In the Nigerian and West African colonies?
These have been trade outposts until recently, though now the Flemings have expanded inland, establishing small forts and subjugating local tribes, though those, as well as the King of Benin, had been able to retain considerable internal autonomy.
2. What are its national ambitions?
Ideally, hegemony over southeastern Europe; Bulgaria and Tsargrad/Constantinople are particularly emphasised by the irredentists, inasmuch as the Polanian princes used to rule that area for a while. Anatolia, Caucasus and the Golden Horde are also natural targets for expansion. It's not just nationalism, ofcourse; the Chernigovian economy basically demands growth, and the south is the most natural direction for it to expand into.
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3. What is its relations with Tver?
Pretty bad; the Tverians always were pretty aggressive, and currently are keen on the idea of uniting Eastern Europe. Their economy is in a boom phase too, and their government is sort of like that of Wilhelm II, only less reasonable and more militaristic and expansionist. Then again, there had always been reconciliationist parties in both countries; in the event of a strong common threat, an alliance might become possible, but not right now.
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4. What powers the economy and how industrialized is Chernigov?
It has been industrialising rapidly, especially recently, though agriculture still is very important in a good way. Note that the south and the east are more industrial, while the north is generally more agrarian, though it has its industrial centres as well. Also, maritime commerce is very important, which is another reason to go for the Straits.
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5. How is the government of Chernigov set up? Total autocracy or a more enlightened despotism?
Parliamentary monarchy, but with a strong royal prerogative.
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Any overly important leaders in its history would also be cool to note.
Askold and Dir (especially Askold) are something like founding fathers, having created the Polanian state (or so the records say, anyway). The present dynasty can trace its roots to Askold, though they aren't the main line by far. It had split off from that line under a Prince Mstislav I; hence the dynasty is called the Mstislavichi. Sadly, Mstislav was pretty unremarkable.
Vsevolod II was the one who carefully played the Mongols, his own boyars and other factions in the late 13th century, paving the way to Chernigov's replacement of Kiev and unification of Polania.
Izyaslav I the Wrathful ruled in the early 17th century. He killed a lot of people (mostly boyars, heretics, Catholics and Turkic tribal leaders) in exciting and painful ways and, along with some capable advisers, forced through various reforms that led to the creation of a centralised state with a new, loyal nobility and an improved army.
Mstislav IV ruled in the early 19th century and introduced numerous modernising social, economical, admistrative and agrarian reforms to stimulate economical development of the southern regions, as well as the industrialisation in the general. He was also responsible for the creation of a Chernigovian reichstag and is considered the father of the fleet (there was a fleet earlier, ofcourse, but it was pretty pathetic). He died young, before he could carry out any more great projects, or make any serious blunders, so he is greatly beloved by most political factions to this day.
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das, what's the internal situation of Italy? Economy, welfare, and other thing like this. And the tech level?
It's pretty poor, though partly industrialised. Living conditions are mediocre at best, for most of the population at least. Technologically it is somewhat lagging behind most other European nations, though not by too far.
How is structured Italian governement?
Presidential Republic.
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What's the political setting of governement and population?
The government is highly nationalistic; the population is divided between highly-conservative (though mainly republican) rural dwellers and the population of the industrial centres that is increasingly moving towards socialism.
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Does the nation and population have irredentist aim to remaining northern Italy and Sicily?
Sure.
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How are the relations with Sicily?
Pretty bad; there is a fairly strong underground pro-unification movement there, and the royal government is not amused.
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How generally are Italian relations with other nations?
Relations with the HRE are horrible, given that Italy was born out of a rebellion against the HRE. Irredentism hasn't made it any better, and has led to further complications with Montferrat. Italy scarcely has any allies at the moment (lots of prospective ones, though), but it doesn't have any enemies other than the three already mentioned either.
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How's the religious setting?
It's pretty funny, on one hand the population is strongly Catholic, as is the government, but the latter at least is frequently clashing with the Pope, even though the latter has by now agreed to renounce all territorial claims, paving the way to reconciliation.
As such, Das, would you mind giving a recount of the status of Flanders and how, exactly, it came to dominate over the more northerly Dutch?
Technically, the distinctions between the north and the south were never as strong as they had become in OTL; Flanders by now is more of a general term for the entire region, not to mention, you know, the nation name. Not that there isn't some regionalism, ofcourse. Still, it was united from the time it first became independent from the HRE, and was only briefly fragmented at one point afterwards (during and immediately after the Fifty Years War).
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Portugal does look a little overpowered
Portugal is much more powerful than in OTL. Lots of reasons.
What is the current cultural atmosphere? Is it largely liberal in line with the OTL Netherlands, or more agrarian and conservative in line with OTL Flanders?
The port cities are quite liberal, but on the whole the country is noticeably more conservative than OTL Netherlands.
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(I can't stay online for too long since I'm on vacation; what did I get wrong?)
The Japanese and the Portuguese had began their intrusions into China independent of the Jurchens in the 17th century. The Qing still were ultimately able to conquer northern and central China, but the south remained in the hands of the warlords, while the greater part of the coasts fell under foreign domination. The Japanese and the Qing also fought a lot, though indecisively. The more recent Xin Ming uprising had pushed the Qing out of central China, and reunited the south, also pushing the Japanese and the Portuguese back somewhat. After the Xin Ming advance was stopped and the counteroffensives failed to make any significant progress, the war more or less died out, but for some residual skirmishing.
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Also, what is the political situation?
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What is the overall governmental system?
It is a moderate constitutional parliamentary republic.
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How centralised/regional is the power structure?
It can be described as federal, or even confederal (probably best put somewhere in between).
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Do Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the Hague, and the other Dutch cities have much influence, or is power mainly concentrated in the Flemish provinces?
The Hague (which has become a proper city much, much earlier than in OTL - you could probably understand why) is pretty important, as is Amsterdam. Still, the Dutch region as a whole is often regarded as somewhat backwater (not unlike some parts of New England in OMD, as far as I could understand), though it has greatly grown in importance since being relatively less devastated in the Fifty Years War.
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What is the ethnic/racial structure/balance in Brazil?
The native populations are relatively more intact than in OTL, whereas the black population is considerably lesser. The white population is ultimately predominant, though mainly concentrated in the coastal and near-coastal regions, and mainly consists of Flemish colonists and French and "Spanish" emigres (most of whom are third generation at the least, and very divergent from France culturally by now, though not assimilated either). There are, ofcourse, lots of other minorities as well. There is little in the way of official discrimination, but the blacks (who still form a major group) still tend to suffer from the unofficial variety. Most natives aren't integrated into the society at all.
1) From which real-life empire did this current one spring? Or are the origins of the nation more complicated?
Heh, a little of both. The (First, and historical) Malinese Empire has fared better than in OTL, nipping Songhay in the bud (mainly an unabashed butterfly effect, but there were also all kinds of fluctuations in the trade network that ultimately came to favour Mali more than in OTL). It eventually stagnated and fell apart into warring states, some of which were also overwhelmed by barbarians (17th century). Eventually, one barbarian (specifically, Bambara) warlord was able to reconquer the imperial core, skillfully applying what European technology, tactics and military advisers he was able to procure thanks to his ties with Portugal. Eventually, his successors officially restored the Malinese Empire, claiming descent from the first one (and by then, they were indeed assimilated enough). Note that by now that dynasty had lost power, and a new one has arisen from the traditional Mandinka aristocracy; it was a fairly smooth transition, though, in part thanks to the intermarriage.
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2) Why is it still independent? Who or what has assisted it in retaining its independence?
Well, part of the reason is that it's too big and too far inland; conquering it would be very expensive. Also, note that Africa in general has been paid much less attention by the European powers than in OTL at this period; most powers tend to have many other concerns. That said, it has also been a traditional ally of Portugal (though by now, Portuguese economic colonialism has become a concern), and it is relatively modern for a native African state (which still isn't all that much, but makes it somewhat more challenging for any invaders).
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3) How much and in what areas has it embraced modern technology? Who has been supplying said technology, if anyone?
I think I already answered that accidentally. It has mainly embraced military technology, though some other elements have been integrated as well, though not as much (efforts at industrialisation have been ongoing for the last decade, but without much success). And, ofcourse, the main supplier is Portugal.
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1. How is the current army composed and how modernized (and large) is it?
It is a large modern standing army. Most of it is infantry, but both cavalry and artillery are present in major amounts as well.
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2. How is the current navy composed and how modernized (and large) is it?
It is a medium-sized fleet with several Battleships, and most late 19th century ship classes below that represented as well. It is mostly modern.
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3. Is the racial makeup homogenous, mixed into three or four main parts, or a serious melting pot?
I'm not sure if the racial, rather than ethnic, makeup is a very big matter here. As to the ethnic makeup, it is mainly homogeneous, except in the eastern half, and especially the south-east. In the east we have a considerable Buddhist Tartar minority, and in the southeast we have lots and lots of different Muslim North Caucasian ethnicities, though by now the Slavic colonists have become something like a third of the local population. It is unlikely that they would outnumber the locals any time soon, though. Lastly, there are Wallachians, Hungarians and Poles in the far west. Most other minorities are more or less assimilated, with the obvious exception of the Omnipresent Ones in most large cities, especially Odessa and Theodosia (in Crimea).
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4. I think this might have been answered but I can't find it...what is the predominant religion?
Non-Uniate Orthodox Christianity, which is as of now headed by the Patriarch of Kiev. Georgia is the only other state with Non-Uniate Orthodox Christianity as its official religion, but most of Bulgaria is Non-Uniate as well, and most every OTL Orthodox regions may be assumed to contain at least some Non-Uniate communities.
@das The Knights of the Nile are the guys in Ceylon right? They never changed their name or something?
Yes. By now the Nile has attained a great symbolic value for the knightly order.
Mali: It is probably valuable to point out that their government is best described as a combination of a (primitive) parliamentary monarchy and a tribal confederacy. Their cavalry is stronger than implied, and there is also a noteworthy camelry corps. The navy seems right enough; infrastructure is probably one level higher.
1) How has a stronger Egypt and a lack of strong colonization nearby impacted Ethiopia? Is it much the same as it was in real life, or has it changed significantly?
Significantly changed - it has been in significantly greater contact with the European civilisation for much longer than in OTL. It is in union with the Roman Catholic Church (and has been for centuries), and has been an important ally of Venice and Egypt during the spread of the Crusades into the Indian Ocean (14th-16th centuries, basically). By the 17th century it has decisively defeated its Islamic enemies and entered a veritable golden age, absorbing many Catholic cultural elements as well as much European technology. It also managed to prosper economically from the trade that goes through the Red Sea - even moreso after the construction of the Canal. It has been somewhat stagnant as of late, and not too fast at absorbing the newest technological developments, but it still is very advanced by African standards.
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2) How modernized is Ethiopia, and in what areas are they most modern?
It is lagging behind now, but not by too much (compare with the better parts of late 19th century Ottoman Empire, only not nearly as inefficient). Military technology is a must-have, but there has been some (more successful) industrial development as well.
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3) How are Ethipian-Egyptian relations?
Traditionally very good, but declining now.
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4) How does Ethiopia feel towards the Portuguese, as they are the only nation with nearby colonial possessions?
Traditional and standing trade partners. Also, as of now Ethiopia is moving away from the Egyptian sphere influence into the Portuguese one.
Technically, Egypt has colonies close by too.
1) What are the current relations between Portugal and Japan?
Utterly horrible. The Japanese are massacring Christian converts and missionaries and putting as many limits on European trade as possible; the Portuguese keep trying to supplant the Japanese in their provinces economically and ally with local crime rings.
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2) How different is Siam from how it was in real life?
Compared to most other countries, it is quite similar, a higher percentage of Christians, a different dynasty and an agreement with Portugal put aside. Oh, and also Siam has been expanding quite ruthlessly in the last few decades. You could say that it is much more independent in its foreign policy than in OTL.
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1) Somehow I get the feeling that Egypt happens to be Christian. Why?
Because I've implied as much on many previous occasions, I guess. Can't you sort out your own feelings by yourself?
Anyway, yes, it got conquered by crusaders, due to the Fatimids holding out for longer than in OTL but also becoming more stagnant than ever and eventually falling apart impressively when invaded by Norman and other European nobles in alliance with Venice in the 12th century.
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2) Moving from my predicted answer to the first question, did Egypt gain its territory in the Middle East during the Crusades?
No; and actually, the Kingdom of Jerusalem was the predominant Crusader state in the first two centuries after these were carved out of the central regions of the shattered Dar al-Islam. As the Kingdom of Egypt consolidated, took definite shape and survived some early crises, though, the balance of power began to shift in its favour. After the Levantine Crusaders were weakened first by the Il-Khanate and then by the Turko-Arabic Tutushid Empire over the 14th-15th centuries, the Egyptians were able to more or less peacefully integrate most Crusader states, and later razed Edessa (which became the rallying point for the enemies of the Alexandrian Crown). Then again, that went on in the midst of a second wave of Crusades aimed against the Tutushids and other new Islamic enemies, so what you said partly applies.
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3) Is the nation that controls the interior of the Arabian Peninsula still Muslim?
It is called the Jadfdid Caliphate, and its rulers are officially committed to restoring and maintaining the complete purity of Islam. It may be assumed to be Taoist.
Is that capital Würzburg?
Fulda seems more like it.
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-The rulers are of the House of Leiningen, correct?
Yes.
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-When'd they put in the Kiel Canal, and why?
1864, for the sake of easier transit. Also, in avoidance of crazy Danes.
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-Would you mind doing a brief recap of the HRE's history (emphasis on political natch) from the divergence? (I know some of the basics, mostly centering on Alexander's war of conquest, and I remember stuff from the two question sessions in the Alternate History threads, but much of the earlier part of the second millennium is still blank.) Sort of like what you did with Azale and Chernigov.
EDIT: Forgot to add something in here.
The HRE is much harder to summarise than Chernigov. Still, I guess I could do a really basic rundown.
There were no Hohenstauffens and the HRE began to disintegrate earlier but slower and less spectacularly. The Imperial crown in the 13th-15th centuries passed back and forth between different dynasties; some major ones, like the Wittelsbachs or the von Hollands, still emerged to gain great power and prestige, but none managed to consolidate their power properly, and all were prone to infighting, as was the Empire itself. Meanwhile, from the 14th century on, the religiously-coloured wars with France made life more and more difficult for the HRE's lesser principalities. The southwestern statelets eventually formed the League of Stuttgart to counter the French; the House of Leiningen emerged as the leader of the League, and has used its subsequent martial successes for political leverage. In the early 16th century, the Leiningens finally gained the throne; at first they didn't seem much more tenacious than their predecessors, but they were able to use dynastic marriages and political manipulation to build up an impressive power base and keep everyone else either irrelevant or on their side. It took some doing and a serious civil war, but by the 17th century the Holy Roman Empire was hereditary, recentralised and ready to fight various Slavs, Italians, Hungarians and Egyptians in addition to their usual repertoire of Frenchmen and Danes (the latter having used the earlier turmoil to expand into northern Germany before getting thrown out of there in the 16th century). The rest you probably already know.
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-What's the HRE's political structure, i.e. how decentralized (anything like the old Circles?), is the succession officially hereditary or elective, that sort of thing.
It is actually rather similar to the Second Reich, though slightly less centralised. And the succession is hereditary.
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-What cultural minorities exist within the HRE, where, what religions do they follow, and how well have they been assimilated?
Firstly, the Jews (who are present in considerable numbers (largest concentration in the world, and bigger than in OTL due to refugees from France and such) and are only partly assimilated) are practicing various kinds of Judaism, but virtually everyone is Roman Catholic with differing degrees of devotion and often fairly divergent beliefs and practices. Apart from some Italian and Polish minorities and the semi-assimilated Czechs, most of the population is what is called German (for a somewhat broader definition than in OTL); note, however, that there is some extreme cultural regionalism, especially in Bavaria, Frisia, Alsace and Prussia. And ofcourse there are assorted natives in colonies, including Livonia; degrees of assimilation may vary wildly.
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-Are there any irredentist claims that the HRE has or particular rivalries with other powers?
Not that much in the way of irredentism, though possibly some with regards to Italy. As to particular rivalries, France is the rival of anyone within reach, Denmark is incredibly annoying and the HRE fought Tver for centuries over the eastern lands.
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-How did the colonization of the Orinoco territory (and Belize, I guess, but that's not as important) happen - how did the HRE acquire it, what are the social strata in the colony, how profitable is it, and how stable is the political situation there (any independence movements or native problems?)?
Back in the 16th century, the Imperial merchants first established themselves in the area (and in some other places too). It was only in the late 17th-early 18th centuries that these outposts and lesser colonies were turned into a proper Imperial Colony, expanding into the inlands. The population is mostly German and Jewish; natives are mostly insignificant by now. It is mostly an average settler colony, and is moderately profitable. For now the population is mostly content with the considerable self-government it has been granted thus far.
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-What major economic concerns does the HRE have in other countries, what countries, and of what import to the economy?
It has a considerable economic presence in Poland, Hungary, Croatia and Serbo-Romea, and less in various other areas, such as foreign colonies; and trade is ofcourse of great import for the economy, though not as much as one might expect. Also, there was a major recent economical crisis, so...
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-What are the status of those Hungarian, Illyrian, and Polish states and their relations to the HRE - puppets or something?
Poland was traditionally a puppet or even a part of the HRE; it has relatively recently broken away and has been trying to retain its independence, though ultimately backing down from its attempts to make an alliance with Tver. The status is uncertain.
Hungary has an unpopular Imperial puppet government.
Croatia is independent, but definitely pro-Imperial in allegiance and foreign policy.
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-Why didn't the Swiss ever pop up (or if they did, why were they reabsorbed into the HRE)?
The Forest Cantons never did rise up because they never lost their privileges in the first place (well, subsequently all those things had gone through a revision, but that was later). They remained just another part of the HRE, as far as we are concerned.
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-How well militarized is the HRE (i.e. size of army per capita and how well it has performed in recent years), how modern is their amry, and who controls it within the political structure of the empire?
The HRE has a very large and well-trained, mostly modern army, controlled by the Holy Roman Emperor and his General Staff.
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-How about their navy - has it been fairly well developed and modernized, what is its size, and who has control of the navy?
The navy is pretty middling in most regards, though it is relatively modern. It is under the same general military command, though it is not integrated with the army.
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-Are the colonies and outposts in Africa and South America primarily military outposts for use by the navy, trade posts, or some other form of colony (see the previous discussion on colonies in a certain other thread)?
Orinoco aside, colonies are trade outposts and coaling stations.
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-What events have happened most recently in the HRE - any political shocks or anarchism or conflicts with other countries?
A major "shock", to say the least, has occurred some three-two decades ago, when, after the death of the Kaiser, a series of nationalist uprisings led to the independence of Poland and Italy despite the Imperial military's best efforts. Subsequent reform efforts were undermined and partly derailed by the growth of a worker's movement, which was partly thwarted by social reforms.
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-Do socialist or communist (or Egalitist ) groups exist within the HRE, and how are they treated by the government and the populace at large?
Arbeitist, yes. Their influence is waning, and the more radical ones are illegal; others are grudgingly tolerated.
Oklahoma is a Native American confederacy; its relations with Portugal were never clearly formulated, but Albion is more or less an ally. And it has been around for decades now; the population still is too low to warrant any major expansion. Lastly, that's not what you are supposed to put under
Das, what is the situation in the Flemish Congo like? Is it a brutalist state a la the OTL Congo Free State or is it more in line with a "traditional" African colony?
More of the latter.
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How large is the European population there?
Fairly small and concentrated in the coastal areas.
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Why is the colony so concentrated along the coast, i.e. why weren't there massive expansion efforts into the interior along the lines of Henry Morton Stanley's in OTL?
Such expansion efforts have only become possible - and indeed started - very recently. Plus there was a different focus in the Flemish colonial policies overall.
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How did the Flemish Congo come into existence in the first place?
They established some trade outposts, and alternately warred or traded with the locals. In the 19th century, with the beginning of major colonial expansion into Africa's interior, the Flemings finally got the upper hand and annexed Kongo.
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Similarly, what is the correspongind situation in Mozambique?
Similar to OTL in some regards, only the Flemings had paid much more attention to the colony than the Portuguese did, and so it is more developed and has a higher European population.
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In the Nigerian and West African colonies?
These have been trade outposts until recently, though now the Flemings have expanded inland, establishing small forts and subjugating local tribes, though those, as well as the King of Benin, had been able to retain considerable internal autonomy.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
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Why is it red instead of a more traditional Russian color?
Because red is a traditional Russian colour. Also, it is the background of Tver's coat of arms.
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1) How did it come to control northern Russia?
It was a small, but strategically-positioned trade outpost of the Slovenian capital, Novgorod. When Slovenia fell apart in the late 11th century, Tver began its gradual ascent, and, thanks to its resources, growing population and good position, ultimately managed to reunite the north (by the late 15th century or so, actually).
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2) You've mentioned a Wilhelm II-style government, is this as similar as Social Democrat control of a largely powerless "advisory" body? Are there any other political groups?
I believe I was talking more about the foreign policy. Tver is a very conditional parliamentary monarchy, actually quite similar to Britain in some legal regards, only with the monarchs having much more practical power and using what they have this much more actively. That said, there is an active Arbeitist movement that is represented in the parliament along with more traditional liberals and conservatives. However, a definite similarity to Germany is present; there is a powerful and well-developed military-industrial complex/lobby, for instance.
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How do average Tverians feel about their government, and how does the government care for them?
Social programs are pretty underdeveloped (despite recent reforms), but the population is mostly loyal; central and northwestern centers have larger oppositionary movements, but government supporters are more active in there as well. The southwest has more dissidents, though those are mostly assorted separatists. Not very powerful, though.
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3) How did the Golden Horde survive, what is its domestic situation, and its relations with Tver?
It survived because nobody bothered to kill it; actually it fell apart on many occasions, but has been recently reassembled yet again. It is fairly primitive and not too stable; relations with Tver are ambiguous, verging between cold neutrality and fervent Tverophilia, especially amongst the local nobles and officials who are often bribed by the Tverian industrialists.
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4) You've mentioned its in the middle of an economic boom, how industrialized is it? Does the port on the Baltic matter much, trade wise?
It is very industrialised; that is to say, it does have many primitive rural regions, but the main central areas are industrial powerhouses, though their advantage might be lost soon. The Baltic ports are major outlets of trade, as are some ports on the Volga. That said, I guess that the former at least are not that much on the world scale.
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5) I'm guessing from its aggressive nature and Wilhelm II thing that it has a capable army, but is it quality or quantity wise?
It is medium-to-large sized, but also pretty good, though not great.
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Is the navy, with only one port, neglected like I'd expect?
Four ports, though it still has been traditionally neglected. More recently, though, the Tverians began to modernise and expand it at an impressive rate, also buying up ships from elsewhere. There be an arms race in the Baltic Sea.
What was the focus? More slave-trade trading posts and less actual colonisation?
That much is probably less true for Flanders than for OTL Netherlands (as far as the early colonial period is concerned), but more true for European colonisation as a whole up to recently. In any case, I was talking more about the geography; the Flemings had only recently turned their attention towards Africa's interior, having until then focused on competing with Portugal and others in more accessible regions.
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How much higher? South Africa high or lower than that?
Lower, for both.
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How powerful are the African states there?
Where is "there"? The ones that are no longer independent aren't very powerful. Most African states are fairly primitive, except for the ones I have described previously - Mali and Ethiopia are comparatively advanced and modernising.
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Also, what about the Indian and Malaysian colonies? Are they settler colonies or trading colonies?
Such large native populations make settler colonies... unlikely. Trade and resource colonies.
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What is the amount of native unrest?
Varies widely from place to place. Java and Gujarat are some of the worst places in that regard.
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have there been a lot of Christian missionary work? Actually, has there been a lot of that in the African colonies as well?
Yes, lots and lots, and everywhere. Success rates vary; usually, in regions with a strongly established and organised religious tradition, even centuries of efforts had managed to create a 10% native Christian population at the most, though there are exceptions. In Africa and more primitive regions of Southeast Asia, Christianity has spread in the coastal and near-coastal regions, though it often became strongly intermixed with native beliefs and traditions.
Why is it red instead of a more traditional Russian color?
Because red is a traditional Russian colour. Also, it is the background of Tver's coat of arms.
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1) How did it come to control northern Russia?
It was a small, but strategically-positioned trade outpost of the Slovenian capital, Novgorod. When Slovenia fell apart in the late 11th century, Tver began its gradual ascent, and, thanks to its resources, growing population and good position, ultimately managed to reunite the north (by the late 15th century or so, actually).
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2) You've mentioned a Wilhelm II-style government, is this as similar as Social Democrat control of a largely powerless "advisory" body? Are there any other political groups?
I believe I was talking more about the foreign policy. Tver is a very conditional parliamentary monarchy, actually quite similar to Britain in some legal regards, only with the monarchs having much more practical power and using what they have this much more actively. That said, there is an active Arbeitist movement that is represented in the parliament along with more traditional liberals and conservatives. However, a definite similarity to Germany is present; there is a powerful and well-developed military-industrial complex/lobby, for instance.
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How do average Tverians feel about their government, and how does the government care for them?
Social programs are pretty underdeveloped (despite recent reforms), but the population is mostly loyal; central and northwestern centers have larger oppositionary movements, but government supporters are more active in there as well. The southwest has more dissidents, though those are mostly assorted separatists. Not very powerful, though.
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3) How did the Golden Horde survive, what is its domestic situation, and its relations with Tver?
It survived because nobody bothered to kill it; actually it fell apart on many occasions, but has been recently reassembled yet again. It is fairly primitive and not too stable; relations with Tver are ambiguous, verging between cold neutrality and fervent Tverophilia, especially amongst the local nobles and officials who are often bribed by the Tverian industrialists.
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4) You've mentioned its in the middle of an economic boom, how industrialized is it? Does the port on the Baltic matter much, trade wise?
It is very industrialised; that is to say, it does have many primitive rural regions, but the main central areas are industrial powerhouses, though their advantage might be lost soon. The Baltic ports are major outlets of trade, as are some ports on the Volga. That said, I guess that the former at least are not that much on the world scale.
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5) I'm guessing from its aggressive nature and Wilhelm II thing that it has a capable army, but is it quality or quantity wise?
It is medium-to-large sized, but also pretty good, though not great.
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Is the navy, with only one port, neglected like I'd expect?
Four ports, though it still has been traditionally neglected. More recently, though, the Tverians began to modernise and expand it at an impressive rate, also buying up ships from elsewhere. There be an arms race in the Baltic Sea.
What was the focus? More slave-trade trading posts and less actual colonisation?
That much is probably less true for Flanders than for OTL Netherlands (as far as the early colonial period is concerned), but more true for European colonisation as a whole up to recently. In any case, I was talking more about the geography; the Flemings had only recently turned their attention towards Africa's interior, having until then focused on competing with Portugal and others in more accessible regions.
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How much higher? South Africa high or lower than that?
Lower, for both.
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How powerful are the African states there?
Where is "there"? The ones that are no longer independent aren't very powerful. Most African states are fairly primitive, except for the ones I have described previously - Mali and Ethiopia are comparatively advanced and modernising.
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Also, what about the Indian and Malaysian colonies? Are they settler colonies or trading colonies?
Such large native populations make settler colonies... unlikely. Trade and resource colonies.
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What is the amount of native unrest?
Varies widely from place to place. Java and Gujarat are some of the worst places in that regard.
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have there been a lot of Christian missionary work? Actually, has there been a lot of that in the African colonies as well?
Yes, lots and lots, and everywhere. Success rates vary; usually, in regions with a strongly established and organised religious tradition, even centuries of efforts had managed to create a 10% native Christian population at the most, though there are exceptions. In Africa and more primitive regions of Southeast Asia, Christianity has spread in the coastal and near-coastal regions, though it often became strongly intermixed with native beliefs and traditions.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
@das can you fill in any gaps that are left?
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
Right about this I'm trying to get the the map redone. I'm also working on a new ruleset and stats.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
I'm considering it, I'm not wholly satisfied with the current one. But that would however really increase the amount of time to finish it.
I personally think that the rules as-is are sufficient. Might as well go in steps, complexity-wise.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
War Mobilization:
Your standing army is much smaller then what you will need for serious military action. In such instances you may carry out wartime mobilization. This will reduce the cost of your troops. You will during wartime mobilization be able to recruit 5 divisions, squadrons, and air wings per eco point. For capital ships you can build 2 for 1 eco point.
Furthermore conscription becomes available and 10 conscript divisions may be recruited per 1 eco point. These will drag down your military’s quality and they will have low morale. But when you need a lot of boots on the ground these are your guys.
Lastly war mobilization has an economic effect. You must spend 70% of your EP on military. The remainder is allowed to be spent on other things but note that they shall suffer deleterious effects due to decreased funding. Furthermore if a war drags on too long your war effort will begin to falter and note that after war mobilization is ended you will have aftereffects.
Your standing army is much smaller then what you will need for serious military action. In such instances you may carry out wartime mobilization. This will reduce the cost of your troops. You will during wartime mobilization be able to recruit 5 divisions, squadrons, and air wings per eco point. For capital ships you can build 2 for 1 eco point.
Furthermore conscription becomes available and 10 conscript divisions may be recruited per 1 eco point. These will drag down your military’s quality and they will have low morale. But when you need a lot of boots on the ground these are your guys.
Lastly war mobilization has an economic effect. You must spend 70% of your EP on military. The remainder is allowed to be spent on other things but note that they shall suffer deleterious effects due to decreased funding. Furthermore if a war drags on too long your war effort will begin to falter and note that after war mobilization is ended you will have aftereffects.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
If this isn't a stillbirth, I'll join. Interest in Ceylon.
Fuschia
A Little Odd
I'm still about, although I would appreciate it being launched either fairly quickly or in about three weeks. Coinciding a new NES with exams and presentations and all that stuff would be a real pain. Not that I couldn't do it, of course.
Also, the rules are more or less good the way they are. Minor tweaks could be done, I'm sure, but those can be added later without throwing the completely off.
Also, the rules are more or less good the way they are. Minor tweaks could be done, I'm sure, but those can be added later without throwing the completely off.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
Europe
The Grand Principality of Chernigov
Capital: Chernigov (Traditional); Odessa (Administrative)
Ruler: Prince Mstislav V/Azale
Government: Parliamentary Monarchy (Competent)
Culture:
Technology description: Industrial. It has been industrializing rapidly, especially recently, though agriculture still is very important in a good way. Note that the south and the east are more industrial, while the north is generally more agrarian, though it has its industrial centers as well.
Army: 30 divisions
Army Description: The army is a modern force generally on par with other European powers and well equipped in terms of artillery. It also contains a powerful cavalry corps of Cossacks.
Navy: 5 capital ships, 20 squadrons
Navy Description: The navy has grown increasingly powerful and capable in recent years and dominates the Black Sea.
Military Upkeep: 3
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 5/5/4/14/0
Land Area: 4
Infrastructure: Improving
Population Level: 4
Education: Literate
Living Standards: Normal
Confidence: Respecting
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty/Administration/Upkeep):
Nation Background:
Holy Roman Empire [of the German Nation]
Capital: Fulda
Ruler: ?/
Government: Federative Empire (Efficient)
Culture: Mostly German with some regional particularism, especially in Bavaria, Alsace, Prussia, and Frisia, with a large semi-assimilated Czech minority and minor Italian and Polish populations; mostly Roman Catholic, but with a large Jewish minority; contains a somewhat unassimilated native population in Livonia. Significant urbanization, especially in the Rhine valley, but with a majority of the populace still living rurally.
Technology description: Industrial. Special emphasis on chemistry and steam-powered transportation, as well as significant development of artillery.
Army: 60 divisions
Army Description: Competently led and organized by a general staff, the Imperial army is one of the largest and best trained in the world. Some emphasis has been placed on artillery in recent years, but not to the overwhelming detriment of mobility. A sizable cavalry corps also exists, with colorful units such as the Uhlans and hussars exemplifying the diversity of lands under Imperial control.
Navy: 8 capital ships, 25 squadrons
Navy Description: While clearly the little brother of the army, the Imperial navy does enjoy professional leadership and is fairly modernized. In training and numbers it is middling for a European power.
Military Upkeep: 6
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 15/5/7/27/0
Land Area: 4
Infrastructure: Efficient
Population Level: 5
Education: Well Educated
Living Standards: Normal
Confidence: Respecting
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty): Imperial Orinoco (3/2/7 divisions/Respecting)
Nation Background: The Holy Roman Empire has been a dominant force in Central Europe for the past millennium. For much of its early history, the Empire was a disparate collection of states, governed by transient dynasties that never mustered the power to hold Germany in its entirety for long. Out of the House of Leiningen's dominance over southwestern Germany rose the powerhouse that would eventually seize control of the nearly defunct HRE and centralize it, successfully fighting off enemies from all points of the compass. A golden age in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries was capped by Karl V's successful war with Alexander of Egypt, although after the the Empire began to stumble somewhat again. The outcome of the Fifty Years' War in the eighteenth century was inconclusive at best, and the 1870s and 1880s saw nationalist rebellions all over the Imperial periphery combined with an Arbeitist-led social insurrection closer to home, although lately the Empire has begun to flex its muscle again, with interventions in the Balkans culminating in the destruction of Hungary as a major power. The HRE is ringed by rivals; Italy is irredentist, France is opposed to basically everyone else in the world anyway, Tver shows signs of breaking through the cordon sanitaire in Eastern Europe, and the Danes are getting frisky as well. Social problems associated with industrialization are also being held at bay, if temporarily.
Italy
Capital: Rome
Ruler: /
Government: Presidential Republic (Compotent)
Culture: Very nationalistic. Largely Catholic with significant Italian populations in other countries leading to irredentist claims with its neighbors. A northern-southern divide and the north industrialize and the south remains rural.
Technology description: Industrial. Italy lags behind other European countries in terms of technology however northern industry has made great strides.
Army: 20 divisions
Army Description: A simple standing army composed by conscripts, with Infantry and some Artillery. The army has high morale but is poorly lead.
Navy: 3 capital ships, 15 Squadrons
Navy Description: The navy is quite decent and capable of defending Italy’s shores. The leadership is competent and the ships are on par with its neighbors. Contains largely cruisers with respectable numbers of capital ships.
Military Upkeep: 1
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 4/6/2/12/0
Land Area: 2
Infrastructure: Barely Tolerable
Population Level: 2
Education: Educated
Living Standards: Normal
Confidence: Loving
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty):
Italian Gabon (1/1/3 Divisions/ Tolerating)
Italian Sumatra (0/1/2 divisons/Resentful)
Nation Background: Italy is a nationalistic nation born from the ashes of a Imperial aristocratic puppet governement. Today Italy is a minor power in Europe, but it has some potential, and it has some irredentist claims over a lot of territories, like part of North Italy and Sicily. Italy currently is not very powerful economically and is largely based on agriculture, but industrialization in spreading in the country, influenced by other European nations.
Portuguese Empire
Capital: Lisbon
Ruler: King/
Government: Constitutional Monarchy (Efficient)
Culture: Strongly Catholic nation.
Technology description: Industrial.
Army: 30 divisions
Army Description: The army is well armed, well trained, and a formidable military force. It is well staffed with modern artillery, and a sizeable marine corps.
Navy: 30 capital ships, 120 squadrons
Navy Description: The Portuguese navy is among the largest in the world deployed across the globe to defend the vast Portuguese colonial empire. It boasts a fleet of capital ships among the most powerful in the world.
Air force:
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Military Upkeep: 13
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 12/5/13/30/0
Land Area: 2
Infrastructure: Efficient
Population Level: 2
Education: Well Educated
Living Standards: Normal
Confidence: Respecting
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty): Gujarat (2/3/5 divisions/Resentful), China (4/4/15 divisions/Resentful)
Nation Background:
France
Capital: Tours
Ruler:
Government: Theocratic Oligarchy (Competent)
Culture: The only nation that follows the Church of Avigon it is devoutly religious. Strong separatist movements in Iberia.
Technology description: Pre-Industrial. France lags behind its neighbors in terms of technological development,
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Flemish Empire
Capital: Brussels
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Norway
Capital: Trondheim
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Sweden
Capital: Stockholm
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Denmark
Capital: Copenhagen
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Monferrat
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Capital: Syracuse
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Poland
Capital: Krakow
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Tver
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Croatia
Capital: Zagreb
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The Grand Principality of Chernigov
Capital: Chernigov (Traditional); Odessa (Administrative)
Ruler: Prince Mstislav V/Azale
Government: Parliamentary Monarchy (Competent)
Culture:
Technology description: Industrial. It has been industrializing rapidly, especially recently, though agriculture still is very important in a good way. Note that the south and the east are more industrial, while the north is generally more agrarian, though it has its industrial centers as well.
Army: 30 divisions
Army Description: The army is a modern force generally on par with other European powers and well equipped in terms of artillery. It also contains a powerful cavalry corps of Cossacks.
Navy: 5 capital ships, 20 squadrons
Navy Description: The navy has grown increasingly powerful and capable in recent years and dominates the Black Sea.
Military Upkeep: 3
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 5/5/4/14/0
Land Area: 4
Infrastructure: Improving
Population Level: 4
Education: Literate
Living Standards: Normal
Confidence: Respecting
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Holy Roman Empire [of the German Nation]
Capital: Fulda
Ruler: ?/
Government: Federative Empire (Efficient)
Culture: Mostly German with some regional particularism, especially in Bavaria, Alsace, Prussia, and Frisia, with a large semi-assimilated Czech minority and minor Italian and Polish populations; mostly Roman Catholic, but with a large Jewish minority; contains a somewhat unassimilated native population in Livonia. Significant urbanization, especially in the Rhine valley, but with a majority of the populace still living rurally.
Technology description: Industrial. Special emphasis on chemistry and steam-powered transportation, as well as significant development of artillery.
Army: 60 divisions
Army Description: Competently led and organized by a general staff, the Imperial army is one of the largest and best trained in the world. Some emphasis has been placed on artillery in recent years, but not to the overwhelming detriment of mobility. A sizable cavalry corps also exists, with colorful units such as the Uhlans and hussars exemplifying the diversity of lands under Imperial control.
Navy: 8 capital ships, 25 squadrons
Navy Description: While clearly the little brother of the army, the Imperial navy does enjoy professional leadership and is fairly modernized. In training and numbers it is middling for a European power.
Military Upkeep: 6
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 15/5/7/27/0
Land Area: 4
Infrastructure: Efficient
Population Level: 5
Education: Well Educated
Living Standards: Normal
Confidence: Respecting
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty): Imperial Orinoco (3/2/7 divisions/Respecting)
Nation Background: The Holy Roman Empire has been a dominant force in Central Europe for the past millennium. For much of its early history, the Empire was a disparate collection of states, governed by transient dynasties that never mustered the power to hold Germany in its entirety for long. Out of the House of Leiningen's dominance over southwestern Germany rose the powerhouse that would eventually seize control of the nearly defunct HRE and centralize it, successfully fighting off enemies from all points of the compass. A golden age in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries was capped by Karl V's successful war with Alexander of Egypt, although after the the Empire began to stumble somewhat again. The outcome of the Fifty Years' War in the eighteenth century was inconclusive at best, and the 1870s and 1880s saw nationalist rebellions all over the Imperial periphery combined with an Arbeitist-led social insurrection closer to home, although lately the Empire has begun to flex its muscle again, with interventions in the Balkans culminating in the destruction of Hungary as a major power. The HRE is ringed by rivals; Italy is irredentist, France is opposed to basically everyone else in the world anyway, Tver shows signs of breaking through the cordon sanitaire in Eastern Europe, and the Danes are getting frisky as well. Social problems associated with industrialization are also being held at bay, if temporarily.
Italy
Capital: Rome
Ruler: /
Government: Presidential Republic (Compotent)
Culture: Very nationalistic. Largely Catholic with significant Italian populations in other countries leading to irredentist claims with its neighbors. A northern-southern divide and the north industrialize and the south remains rural.
Technology description: Industrial. Italy lags behind other European countries in terms of technology however northern industry has made great strides.
Army: 20 divisions
Army Description: A simple standing army composed by conscripts, with Infantry and some Artillery. The army has high morale but is poorly lead.
Navy: 3 capital ships, 15 Squadrons
Navy Description: The navy is quite decent and capable of defending Italy’s shores. The leadership is competent and the ships are on par with its neighbors. Contains largely cruisers with respectable numbers of capital ships.
Military Upkeep: 1
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 4/6/2/12/0
Land Area: 2
Infrastructure: Barely Tolerable
Population Level: 2
Education: Educated
Living Standards: Normal
Confidence: Loving
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty):
Italian Gabon (1/1/3 Divisions/ Tolerating)
Italian Sumatra (0/1/2 divisons/Resentful)
Nation Background: Italy is a nationalistic nation born from the ashes of a Imperial aristocratic puppet governement. Today Italy is a minor power in Europe, but it has some potential, and it has some irredentist claims over a lot of territories, like part of North Italy and Sicily. Italy currently is not very powerful economically and is largely based on agriculture, but industrialization in spreading in the country, influenced by other European nations.
Portuguese Empire
Capital: Lisbon
Ruler: King/
Government: Constitutional Monarchy (Efficient)
Culture: Strongly Catholic nation.
Technology description: Industrial.
Army: 30 divisions
Army Description: The army is well armed, well trained, and a formidable military force. It is well staffed with modern artillery, and a sizeable marine corps.
Navy: 30 capital ships, 120 squadrons
Navy Description: The Portuguese navy is among the largest in the world deployed across the globe to defend the vast Portuguese colonial empire. It boasts a fleet of capital ships among the most powerful in the world.
Air force:
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Military Upkeep: 13
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 12/5/13/30/0
Land Area: 2
Infrastructure: Efficient
Population Level: 2
Education: Well Educated
Living Standards: Normal
Confidence: Respecting
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty): Gujarat (2/3/5 divisions/Resentful), China (4/4/15 divisions/Resentful)
Nation Background:
France
Capital: Tours
Ruler:
Government: Theocratic Oligarchy (Competent)
Culture: The only nation that follows the Church of Avigon it is devoutly religious. Strong separatist movements in Iberia.
Technology description: Pre-Industrial. France lags behind its neighbors in terms of technological development,
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Capital: Brussels
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Capital: Syracuse
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Capital: Constantinople
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Croatia
Capital: Zagreb
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silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
Asia-Pacific
Nation Name: Australian Confederation
Capital: Sydney
Ruler: President
Government: Democratic Republic (Competent)
Culture: Roman Catholicism is very strong in Australia with few other religions present in any appreciable quantity.
Technology description: Industrial. Australia's technology is mostly agricultural-oriented. There are fairly developed industrial cities however and modern technology is utilized. The military however lags behind in technological development.
Army: 8 divisions
Army Description: Australia's army is small with little attention paid to it. The troops are inexperienced and haven’t ever been tested in battle. The equipment is fairly decent however but not comparable with the European powers or Japan.
Navy: 4 squadrons
Navy Description: Although Australia's navy is small it is fairly modern. The Australian Navy is inexperienced and largely patrols sea the nation’s shores and sea routes.
Military Upkeep: 0
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 4/5/3/0/12
Land Area: 8
Infrastructure: Improving
Bureaucracy: Better
Population Level: 5
Education: Mostly Literate
Living Standards: Good
Confidence: Better
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Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty/Administration/Upkeep): None
Nation Background:
Australia is one of the nations that formed during or after the 50 years' war as a result of the French invasion of Great Britain. It's relations with Arcadia rapidly deteriorated at the end of the war and they now share an intense mutual dislike of each other. Currently, Australia is one of the world's largest exporters of textiles and agricultural products.
Nation Name: Xin Ming China
Capital: Chengdu
Ruler:
Government: Monarchy (Improving)
Culture: Neo-Confucianism with strong nationalist ideology and xenophobia. Culturually, religiously and ethnically homogeneous, strong sense of identity. Small Tibetan minority in Western provinces.
Technology description: Pre-Industrial. Behind major competitors but modernization is occurring albeit slowly, lack of railroads, or serious industries as of yet, thus machinery and large scale production is limited. Military technology however is more advanced.
Army: 30 divisions
Army Description: The Xin Ming army is composed largely of infantry but also contains artillery and cavalry forces. The army has been invested heavily into of late. It is competently lead and has strong morale.
Navy: 10 squadrons
Navy Description: The Xin Ming fleet is largely riverine, it contains gunboats meant for controlling to rivers. The fleet is relatively modernized and suited for its purpose.
Military Upkeep: 1
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 3/5/1/9/0
Land Area: 5
Infrastructure: Pathetic
Population Level: 8
Education: Illiterate
Living Standards: Low
Confidence: Nation Personified
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Nation Background: Xin Ming China arose as a result of Qing rule and Portuguese and Japanese incursions. The Qing conquered central China while the Japanese and Portuguese established their dominance in the coast. Xin Ming China revolted against the Qing driving them out of south-central China and managed to push back the foreigners as well before being halted. The war has died down though skirmishes and tensions remain high. The Xin Ming are driven by the goal to drive out all foreigners from China.
Golden Horde
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Uighur Khanate
Capital: Urumqi
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Knights of the Nile
Capital: Colombo
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Culture: Strongly fundamentalist Roman Catholic Christian, Noahites with evangelical ideology. Still significant but rapidly diminishing Buddhist and Hindu minorities who tend to be persecuted.
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Tibet
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Qing Empire
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Empire of Japan
Capital: Osaka
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Capital: Bangkok
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Vietnam
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Mustafid Shahate
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Hyderabad
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North America
New Albion
Capital: Los Angles
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Oklahoma
Capital: Oklahoma City
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Arcadia
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Tawantinsuyu
Capital: Cuzco
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Argentine Protectorate
Capital: Buenos Aires
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Middle East
Despotate of Ionia
Capital: Aydin
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Georgia
Capital: Tblisi
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Dagestan
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Iraq
Capital: Baghdad
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Jadfdid Caliphate
Capital: Mecca
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Greater Armenia
Capital: Yerevan
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Adana
Capital: Adana
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Africa
Second Malinese Empire
Capital: Ka-ba
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Government: Parliamentary Monarchy with tribal elements (Incompetent)
Culture: The Second Malinese Empire is a collection of tribes with weak cultural associations, especially further inland. The Malinese themselves are not a majority of the population but, rather, a large plurality.
Technology description: Pre-Industrial. Mali has yet to embrace modern technology, with the notable exception of its military. Modernization is being slowly attempted.
Army: 15 divisions
Army Description: Professional standing army; mostly infantry with notably cavalry and camelry corps.
Navy: 1 squadron
Navy Description: A small number of patrol boats created to guard the Malinese's simple merchant vessels.
Military Upkeep: 0
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 1/5/2/8/0
Land Area: 4
Infrastructure: Tolerable
Population Level: 2
Education: Illiterate
Living Standards: Low
Confidence: Barely Tolerating
Projects: None
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty): None
Nation Background: The Second Malinese Empire was created after the collapse of the First Malinese Empire in the late 17th Century. Eventually, outside forces destroyed the successor states of the First Malinese Empire and a single warlord regained control of the entirety of the First Malinese Empire's territory and proclaimed the Second Malinese Empire. A quick and seamless transition back to rule by the traditional Mandinka aristocracy took place recently. The continued independence of the Second Malinese Empire in this period of colonization is ensured by the difficulty in occupying it and the assistance of Portugal in modernizing its military and expanding trade.
Ethiopia
Capital: Gondar
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Government: Monarchy (Competent)
Culture: Highly diverse ethnically, it has a strong Catholic religious background. However large Muslim minorities as well as Jewish presence. Oromo presence in cavalry and large Somali population in horn.
Technology description: Pre-Industrial though slowly industrializing. Fairly modernized, with an emphasis on military technology.
Army: 25 divisions
Army Description: A fairly modernized army, capably lead, with a large cavalry competent recruited among the Oromo people.
Navy: 7 squadrons
Navy Description: Mainly small military boats and destroyers used to patrol the Red Sea and protect shipping.
Military Upkeep: 1
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 2/5/3/10/0
Land Area: 3
Infrastructure: Improving
Population Level: 2
Education: Tolerable
Living Standards: Tolerable
Confidence: Respecting
Projects: None
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty): None
Nation Background: The oldest independent nation within Africa, and is also one of the most modernized. Having a strong Christian tradition, it is uniate with the Catholic Church. Traditionally falling under the Egyptian sphere of influence, it is not moving towards that of Portugal. Its fairly modernized economy and partial control of the Red Sea have placed it upon equal footing with many European nations.
Asante
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Kaneam
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Rozwi Empire
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Egypt
Capital: Alexandria
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Fur
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Nation Name: Australian Confederation
Capital: Sydney
Ruler: President
Government: Democratic Republic (Competent)
Culture: Roman Catholicism is very strong in Australia with few other religions present in any appreciable quantity.
Technology description: Industrial. Australia's technology is mostly agricultural-oriented. There are fairly developed industrial cities however and modern technology is utilized. The military however lags behind in technological development.
Army: 8 divisions
Army Description: Australia's army is small with little attention paid to it. The troops are inexperienced and haven’t ever been tested in battle. The equipment is fairly decent however but not comparable with the European powers or Japan.
Navy: 4 squadrons
Navy Description: Although Australia's navy is small it is fairly modern. The Australian Navy is inexperienced and largely patrols sea the nation’s shores and sea routes.
Military Upkeep: 0
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 4/5/3/0/12
Land Area: 8
Infrastructure: Improving
Bureaucracy: Better
Population Level: 5
Education: Mostly Literate
Living Standards: Good
Confidence: Better
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty/Administration/Upkeep): None
Nation Background:
Australia is one of the nations that formed during or after the 50 years' war as a result of the French invasion of Great Britain. It's relations with Arcadia rapidly deteriorated at the end of the war and they now share an intense mutual dislike of each other. Currently, Australia is one of the world's largest exporters of textiles and agricultural products.
Nation Name: Xin Ming China
Capital: Chengdu
Ruler:
Government: Monarchy (Improving)
Culture: Neo-Confucianism with strong nationalist ideology and xenophobia. Culturually, religiously and ethnically homogeneous, strong sense of identity. Small Tibetan minority in Western provinces.
Technology description: Pre-Industrial. Behind major competitors but modernization is occurring albeit slowly, lack of railroads, or serious industries as of yet, thus machinery and large scale production is limited. Military technology however is more advanced.
Army: 30 divisions
Army Description: The Xin Ming army is composed largely of infantry but also contains artillery and cavalry forces. The army has been invested heavily into of late. It is competently lead and has strong morale.
Navy: 10 squadrons
Navy Description: The Xin Ming fleet is largely riverine, it contains gunboats meant for controlling to rivers. The fleet is relatively modernized and suited for its purpose.
Military Upkeep: 1
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 3/5/1/9/0
Land Area: 5
Infrastructure: Pathetic
Population Level: 8
Education: Illiterate
Living Standards: Low
Confidence: Nation Personified
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Nation Background: Xin Ming China arose as a result of Qing rule and Portuguese and Japanese incursions. The Qing conquered central China while the Japanese and Portuguese established their dominance in the coast. Xin Ming China revolted against the Qing driving them out of south-central China and managed to push back the foreigners as well before being halted. The war has died down though skirmishes and tensions remain high. The Xin Ming are driven by the goal to drive out all foreigners from China.
Golden Horde
Capital: Orenberg
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Uighur Khanate
Capital: Urumqi
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Knights of the Nile
Capital: Colombo
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Government: Religious Theocracy (Competent)
Culture: Strongly fundamentalist Roman Catholic Christian, Noahites with evangelical ideology. Still significant but rapidly diminishing Buddhist and Hindu minorities who tend to be persecuted.
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Economy (Industry/Agriculture/Trade/Total/Banked): 1/3/3/7/0
Land Area: 1
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Tibet
Capital: Lhasa
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Qing Empire
Capital: Bejing
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Empire of Japan
Capital: Osaka
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Siamese Empire
Capital: Bangkok
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Vietnam
Capital: Hue
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Mustafid Shahate
Capital: Esfahan
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Rajput Empire:
Capital: Jaipur
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Malla Empire
Capital: Lucknow
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Bengal
Capital: Kolkata
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Hyderabad
Capital: Hyderabad
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North America
New Albion
Capital: Los Angles
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Oklahoma
Capital: Oklahoma City
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Arcadia
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Capital: Quebec City
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South America
Tawantinsuyu
Capital: Cuzco
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Argentine Protectorate
Capital: Buenos Aires
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Middle East
Despotate of Ionia
Capital: Aydin
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Angora
Capital: Angora
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Georgia
Capital: Tblisi
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Dagestan
Capital: Makhachkala
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Iraq
Capital: Baghdad
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Jadfdid Caliphate
Capital: Mecca
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Greater Armenia
Capital: Yerevan
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Adana
Capital: Adana
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Africa
Second Malinese Empire
Capital: Ka-ba
Ruler:
Government: Parliamentary Monarchy with tribal elements (Incompetent)
Culture: The Second Malinese Empire is a collection of tribes with weak cultural associations, especially further inland. The Malinese themselves are not a majority of the population but, rather, a large plurality.
Technology description: Pre-Industrial. Mali has yet to embrace modern technology, with the notable exception of its military. Modernization is being slowly attempted.
Army: 15 divisions
Army Description: Professional standing army; mostly infantry with notably cavalry and camelry corps.
Navy: 1 squadron
Navy Description: A small number of patrol boats created to guard the Malinese's simple merchant vessels.
Military Upkeep: 0
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 1/5/2/8/0
Land Area: 4
Infrastructure: Tolerable
Population Level: 2
Education: Illiterate
Living Standards: Low
Confidence: Barely Tolerating
Projects: None
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty): None
Nation Background: The Second Malinese Empire was created after the collapse of the First Malinese Empire in the late 17th Century. Eventually, outside forces destroyed the successor states of the First Malinese Empire and a single warlord regained control of the entirety of the First Malinese Empire's territory and proclaimed the Second Malinese Empire. A quick and seamless transition back to rule by the traditional Mandinka aristocracy took place recently. The continued independence of the Second Malinese Empire in this period of colonization is ensured by the difficulty in occupying it and the assistance of Portugal in modernizing its military and expanding trade.
Ethiopia
Capital: Gondar
Ruler:
Government: Monarchy (Competent)
Culture: Highly diverse ethnically, it has a strong Catholic religious background. However large Muslim minorities as well as Jewish presence. Oromo presence in cavalry and large Somali population in horn.
Technology description: Pre-Industrial though slowly industrializing. Fairly modernized, with an emphasis on military technology.
Army: 25 divisions
Army Description: A fairly modernized army, capably lead, with a large cavalry competent recruited among the Oromo people.
Navy: 7 squadrons
Navy Description: Mainly small military boats and destroyers used to patrol the Red Sea and protect shipping.
Military Upkeep: 1
Economy (Industry/Agriculture /Trade/Total/Banked): 2/5/3/10/0
Land Area: 3
Infrastructure: Improving
Population Level: 2
Education: Tolerable
Living Standards: Tolerable
Confidence: Respecting
Projects: None
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty): None
Nation Background: The oldest independent nation within Africa, and is also one of the most modernized. Having a strong Christian tradition, it is uniate with the Catholic Church. Traditionally falling under the Egyptian sphere of influence, it is not moving towards that of Portugal. Its fairly modernized economy and partial control of the Red Sea have placed it upon equal footing with many European nations.
Asante
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Kaneam
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Nguni Empire
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Rozwi Empire
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Egypt
Capital: Alexandria
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Fur
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