BAD start Sumeria, 20k OCC Monarch

In this variant I can only build offensive units. I choose Sumeria since this meant I couldn't build warriors. I also accepted the first start... a rather bad one.

I did the usual sort of 20k thing. I irrigated then roaded all tiles. The *non-oasis* mine came last. I researched Ceremonial Burial, then Mysticism. I dialed up William and gave him CB for 10 gold. I researched Alphabet for 2 turns, since William wouldn't take Mysticism for Alphabet and 25 gold. After 2 turns I traded Mysticism and 20 or so gold for Alphabet. Then I researched Writing, Philosophy, Map Making as my free tech, Literature and then nothing. Ur went pre-build for temple with a granary, temple, Colossus, Oracle, Museum of Mausollos which switced to The Great Lighthouse as William had started that, Museum of Mausollos, library, Great Library. At this point, I pretty much consider the game one. The biggest problem comes as building those medieval wonders with this few shields. I may or may not finish this won, but at this point I'll build a few archers and some galleys. I guess I could still lose by the U.N. or something.

Edit: I did mine the single oasis first.

I pre-built the Sistine Chapel with a cathedral, actually researching both Chivalry and Monotheism myself. The Spanish have started to scare me a bit in terms of their tech pace. I've had 2 wars with the Spanish... in one of them I killed some of their units. Even if I don't finish, this seems possible enough, if not all too easy.

As some more notes I researched Monotheism, then Chivalry, and then Theology myself since I had such a low shield output. For a better location, such as a newbie playing this sort of game, you probably don't need to do this. Build Sun Tzu's Art of War when you learn Feudalism or use it as a pre-build on Knights Templar/The Sistine Chapel. I also researched Printing Press once I learned Theology.

After I learned Education from The Great Library, I saw the Spanish already had more than just Astronomy. I figured I'd better research Chemistry to try and catch up. Chemistry netted me Astronomy and Banking. After this I researched Democracy... of course the Spanish beat me to it, but I did buy half of it from them. I then decided NOT to research Free Artistry and instead trade for it. I reserached Physics. At some point I traded the Dutch Democracy for Metallurgy, and then Free Artistry showed up. Soon enough it showed up in a few places. I traded India Metallurgy for Free Artistry, and finished Shakespeare's Theater 3 turns later... the same turn I learned Physics. I now start on Theory of Gravity. I think I'll trade for Economics and hopefully use Smith's as a pre-build on Newton... hopefully J.S. Bach's cascades out before TOG appears. Edit: The lead AIs learned Physics the same turn I did, so Economics looks unlikely. Edit Edit: Gandhi learned Economics a few turns later and did have Physics, so I got Economics and his WM. Go Gandhi!

The economics deal ended up doing me nothing. I learned Theory of Gravity, swapped it with the Indians for Magnetism and entered the Industrial ages. I wanted Steam Power as my free tech, but I got Nationalism, and unsurprisingly Spain already had it. I decided to try to keep up in tech and hope I got Fission as my free tech for a U.N. block... I don't fear anybody launching or getting nuked. I deicded to research Medicine figuring Spain would beat me to Steam Power and sure enough they did. By the time I had finished Medicine both The Netherlands and The Spanish had Industrialization. But, I got to Medicine first! It *pays* to know what to research and the trading system . I sold Medicine to the Dutch for Steam Power and GPT. Then I sold Medicine, gpt, and some gold to the Spanish for Industrialization. Then I made two more deals for iron and coal. I thought about researching Electricity, but figured that even if both The Spanish and The Dutch decided on The Corporation first, they'd probably still beat me there. I thought about researching Sanitation too, but I decided on Espionage. I know I won't get Universal Suffrage, but I still want to try and get TOE. If I miss that, I'll have The Intelligence Agency as a quick fallback.

After Espionage I decided on Sanitation. Spain had Electricity already... but maybe I could trade Espionage and Sanitation for Electricity... or at least I could wait a bit until someone else learned Electricity. When I learned Sanitation I made a nice 2 for 2 deal with The Dutch. I decided on going for Sci. Method at 100%, hopefully Spain would get there 2 turns before the Intelligence Agency completed, and I could still trade Espionage and Sanitation for Sci. Method. Of course, Spain with its economy seemed to have purchased Sanitation and Espionage from The Dutch on the next turn. So, I swapped The Intelligence Agency to a stock exchange. I might still get TOE if I pre-build it. The Dutch beat me to TOE by 6 turns. I swap to The Intelligence Agency and research Replaceable Parts... forget the modern age... I won't go for the U.N.

In 1878 I got the news I wanted. The two tech leaders started warring with each other. Although, this could lead to a domination defeat at the hands of the Spanish. Although, that didn't seem likely. I signed RoPs with everyone about then, as I didn't have any more money I'd spend on deficit research or buildings and could afford them.

17,500 came in 1908.
18,000 in 1922.
18,500 in 1934.
19,000 in 1948. No one had started the U.N. I should easily win this.
19,500 in 1956. "Where's the U.N. laggards?" I ask the AIs.
In 1963 I got nuked. Just kidding... I reached 20k and won in 1963. Screenies and a save from one turn before victory.

Final note: I played this on an 80% archipelago, random climate, standard sized max random opponets map... no barbies. I built The Colossus, The Oracle, The Great Lighthouse, The Museum of Mausollos, and the Great Library. In The Middle Ages I *only* built Knights Templar, The Sistine Chapel, and Shakespeare Theater. I did build The Intelligence Agency and other cultural buildings. I fully built the temple and the library, while I cash-rushed the colosseum, the cathedral, and the university mostly by first cash-rushing a worker, and then before ending that turn immediately cash-rushing the real building... it works out cheaper this way. Hopefully, the first part where I explained my research strategy comes as help enough to win a 20k OCC game on Monarch for *any* tribe. Don't have Bronze Working? Research it yourself. I usually would have built 2 spears before wonders or the temple, but I didn't because of the Aabraxan's variant which inspired this. I had ONE shield bonus... a single oasis... and NO hills or mountains. It doesn't usually come as all too hard to find a river start, maybe a food bonus, and some hills or mountains. With these bonsuses you can usually build more wonders in the middle ages easily and build them faster and some of the industrial wonders if you trade/research intelligently enough.

Final Firaxis score of 538. Only exterminated India had a lower score!

For a newbie or someone who hasn't won on Monarch maybe I should add a few more notes. This strategy should help you learn the trading system... arguably the most important part of the game... from Education to the beginning modern ages.... and even if you do poorly at this, you should still win within your first few attempts rather easily, if not your first. You might want to research Free Artistry in most games like this... you'll have to figure that out for yourself. The basic worker strategy of irrigate-brown, mine-green will work well enough. Unlike any other game, you only need one worker. Have it mine all bonus squares first and use them. Road a square before leaving it. Don't worry if your worker trails behind your city's growth rate... you don't need all tiles perfectly worked right away in this sort of game (this probably won't happen if you play as industrious... or it won't come out as bad). In other games this will tell you that you need more workers, but not so much in this one.

It's a good idea to check in on your city every turn to see if it the citizens have gotten unhappy. If so, raise the luxury slider. Also, check in to see if you can get quicker growth. Your can drop your luxury slider after you have The Oracle or The Museum of Mausollos. In terms of techs you probably want Bronze Working, Pottery, Ceremonial Burial, and Mysticism before you beeline to Philosophy... with Map Making as your free tech.

The Pyramids might actually work out better culturally for its shield cost than the Great Lighthouse, but The Great Lighthouse gives your ships access to sea squares. If you miss The Great Lighthouse, I wouldn't think it a big deal, since you'll probably build more medieval wonders (such as Copernicus's Observatory and/or Newton's University) than I did. If you get a scientific great leader... do NOT use him/her immediately to finish off a great wonder. Finish off the great wonder the normal way, and then use the scientific great leader to rush another great wonder. I didn't get *any* scientific great leaders this game. I sure could have used one in the middle ages, but I didn't need it. If you have ivory research/trade for The Statue of Zeus and build it after The Colossus. Knights Templar will provide military in The Middle Ages and in The Industrial Ages you'll have plenty of time to train military even if you build all 3 Industrial Great Wonders of Universal Suffrage, Theory of Evolution, and Hoover's Dam.

Scanned through your description of the game, based on your comment in another thread.

First, if playing standard game, I would have dumped the game immediately and gone to another map, no hesitation. On one of my modded maps, I might have thought maybe ten seconds, and then dumped the game, and gone to another map. If you view that starting position as playable, then you and I have a serious disagreement with respect to what is playable.

Second, I still have no interest in playing something like this, on any level. I like building Wonders, and use culture to keep everyone happy, but after playing the city-states scenario, I really am not interested in a one-city game, nor am I worried about playing or winning at Monarch level, or any other level for that matter.

Apparently, you had fun playing the game. You have a much different concept of fun and enjoyment than I do. Not saying that is bad, but we simply are not on the same planet in that respect.

If you view that starting position as playable, then you and I have a serious disagreement with respect to what is playable.

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Not just playable... winnable... AND WON. For a non-agricultural tribe, perhaps not, but with the Sumerians or an agricultural tribe... no sweat. I wouldn't suggest a person with little experience doing OCC 20k games try this particular map, but it does help to show that lower-level players/newbies can win this sort of game, as they'll have more shields in the middle ages usually even if they decide to try a game without fresh-water access.

As further notes... I didn't train any Enkidu Warriors and I did NOT have a golden age.

I will concede that I am a player with little experience with the standard game, and I plan to keep it that way. You have your idea of fun and enjoyment, I have mine. Never the twain shall meet.

Well, look at that start and subsitute plains for the desert and a wheat on plains for the desert. is it a most palatable start then? That's essentially what it is for sumeria or any other agri civ. Actually, i wouldn't have mined the oasis, but irrigated it, which would have given me an extra food off the top.

Very nicely played! It's great to see a game that isn't stacked in the human's favor for once. You did an awesome job of playing/winning this one.

Unlike any other game, you only need one worker.

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I'm going to have to disagree with you here. With my limited OCC experience, I find it's helpful to have several workers in two cases:
1) Before you grow past size 12. That way, as soon as you get Shakespear's or a Hospital, you can join workers to the city to grow it quickly, allowing you to take advantage of the size earlier on.
2) Once your town starts polluting. It can be really annoying to clean up pollution with only one worker, unless you're an Industrious civilization in democracy with replaceable parts. Even then, you don't want to lose production due to pollution. It can be a game killer.

It can be helpful to trade with AIs to get their workers. That way, you have people to improve your terrain for free. Really handy when you have a low unit support because of only having one city.

Actually, i wouldn't have mined the oasis, but irrigated it, which would have given me an extra food off the top.

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Huh? I thought that in despotism you can't irrigate an oasis for the food bonus? You'd only have three food this way and you'd lose to the despotism penalty right? I thought I even once irrigated an oasis and I didn't get any extra food, but my memory might serve me wrong. I'll test it here in a moment.

Appleby,

I agree with your analysis for extra workers in a OCC game. But, strictly speaking, you don't need them ever. Unless you don't have freshwater, you also can't really use them all that much until after Shake's really. You could use a second one early on, but I wouldn't recommend training one, since you might miss a wonder that way. I guess it works out best to say that new/newer players should buy/trade for workers during the game. That's part of the point of this game... since I didn't want to play like a newbie entirely, I ended up taking the handicapped start so that it equalized out to what a newer 20k OCC game might work out like. I tried playing a no-fresh water OCC game with Carthage without trading tech and succeeded until the high middle ages much more like a new/newer player would, but it felt way too tempting to use the trading system. Anyone know of the record for a OCC 20k game on Emperor or below? I doubt I could beat any of those yet, but it would make an interesting challenge for me.

Well, I'll be. I could have well irrigated the oasis. Would this have worked the same for a non-agricultural tribe?

I must admit that I do like your fortress line. I assume that you built them with the Crusaders. The Knight's Templar is one Wonder that I really like and it is immensely useful. I have played with it a bit, so that it no longer goes obsolete, and produces a Crusader ever three turns. I use them as combat engineers, building roads and mines along with fortresses. They also are a tad tougher now.

Well-played! Looks like you did some pretty crafty trading.

I must admit that I do like your fortress line. I assume that you built them with the Crusaders.

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To get technical and perhaps pedantic, I have a barricade line. I did use some crusaders to build fortresses, some worker/slave action also. The barricades came from... and in the epic game only come from, workers and slaves.

Hmmm, would you settle for a well-fortified frontier? Seriously, I did something similar in the city-state game that I have played, although as you needed to conquer that adjoining cities, it turned into a moving barrier. It would be nice if the Crusaders could also build barricades, but that appears to be strictly a worker function. Again, not the kind of map I would have played, but it took a lot of work to win with that set up, and you did a good job.

appleby said:

Very nicely played! It's great to see a game that isn't stacked in the human's favor for once. You did an awesome job of playing/winning this one.


I'm going to have to disagree with you here. With my limited OCC experience, I find it's helpful to have several workers in two cases:
1) Before you grow past size 12. That way, as soon as you get Shakespear's or a Hospital, you can join workers to the city to grow it quickly, allowing you to take advantage of the size earlier on.
2) Once your town starts polluting. It can be really annoying to clean up pollution with only one worker, unless you're an Industrious civilization in democracy with replaceable parts. Even then, you don't want to lose production due to pollution. It can be a game killer.

It can be helpful to trade with AIs to get their workers. That way, you have people to improve your terrain for free. Really handy when you have a low unit support because of only having one city.

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3. COLONIES!!!!!!!!

Doug.Lefelhocz said:

Well, I'll be. I could have well irrigated the oasis. Would this have worked the same for a non-agricultural tribe?

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Nope. You were otherwise right.

3. COLONIES!!!!!!!!

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Duh... I never build them, so I wouldn't have thought of that. Interestingly enough I just played a Monarch OCC diplomatic 20k game with the Byzantines without freshwater. It may have actually helped in a way since I trained some extra workers at size 6 and at size 5 also, some went to growth to size 12, others when I finished Shakespeare's Theater.