King of the World #3: Tokugawa

damn this looked very interesting, u inspired me to give it a try also :D (are you playing on normal or epic btw?)

What I did, was the same, prioritize sailing, then push lots of worker boats and get the fish resources. City 2 went up to Korea, but I settled city 3 a bit south west of korea, in mainland china.

I think this is a good location because theres lots of resources near there. something like 1 fish, 1 clam, 2 rice, 1 marble, 1 banana, 1 silk and 1 cow. all in quite close proximity IMO. Dont u get a bonus to some early wonder from marble? I think with the food u can grow your city sufficiently rapidly to get atleast 1 wonder there?
 
goddamnit, I lost the competition to both great lighthouse and temple of artemis, otherwise i had a pretty good early game, stole 2 workers from the chinese dogs and axrushed 1 of their lightly garrisoned cities in northern korea-> quick peace.

shame that I didnt get any of those earlier trade wonders, but colossus would be the last try?
 
Colossus should be an option since you have copper.

Back to the game played here?
 
In this round, we ask the eternal question: What purpose does war serve in a land of milk and honey?

To be fair, an event in the first turn of the round sang the siren song of battle:

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Not that Shock Axemen are all that great. We're really to the point where we're going to be facing Archers a lot more than Melee units, and Swordsmen are going to to be online by the time we're able to field a credible stack. Still, it's better than a typhoon wiping out Osaka. And whipping up a squad of Axemen to upgrade to Samurai might make sense later.

I wish I had been smart enough to have considered Eldarion's strategy, but no, that Work Boat was for Osaka. Kyoto's overloaded with food, anyway. The Lighthouse was just built because if the GLH isn't started sooner rather than later, we ain't getting it. Once Osaka hit pop 2, we whipped the rest of the Work Boat (and used it in the Yellow Sea). The overflow went to getting a Warrior out in one turn, after which a Monument was started (and whipped in turn when the population regrew).

Halfway through the round, our ambassador made fun of Genhis Khan's funny hat, resulting in a diplomatic demerit. Temujin showed up, demading restitution:

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I initially balked, but then I remembered that my slavering horde consisted of two Warriors and a Galley. Yeah, yeah. Take the fish. I'll kill you later.

I discovered Asoka and Qin and set up my espionage thusly:

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I figure that's the way to go, at least short-term.

Techwise, I went Mysticism-Agriculture-Pottery-Masonry-Animal Husbandry(which is mostly researched by round's end). Iron Working is likely next in line. In 1600, we did manage to get Tokyo founded in southern China:

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So my question is, we have a ton of great territory that we can settle without a fight. Heck, we're pretty close to our economy's limit as it is. I'm fairly tempted to play happy kingdom until we get a good stack of Swordsmen and Catapults, and not let slip the dogs of war until around 300 B.C. - 0 A.D.

Thoughts?
 
steal a couple chinese workers? do it!! slave economy ftw! :D, atleast that saves you some hammers not building them on your own. theyll agree to peace, I think :P

or atleast they will, if you wait e.g. just up to the point where they settle a new city, with a warrior garrison. Then I would steal a worker, and in 1 more turn I'd capture a city of theirs with a single axeman. After that they usually agree to ceasefire.
 
Ghengis is pretty warlike and maybe you can get him to start a war with Qin and then you join him and smash China. After that, you can smash him too. It will help because fighting a one-on-one battle with Qin won't be easy. Your crappy economy can't support a huge army. Some pretty invasive settling so far though!!
 
What kind of victory conditions are we aiming for here? I mean if you don't want domination there's no reason to not spread out through Australasia like the CPU usually does, though that would probably be a pretty boring game to read through. Otherwise though I'd think you'd want to take out some Asian power early on...

Also considering how backwards they usually are, a surprise attack on the Americas could be fun to plan later on.
 
Qin has been a saint so far this game (though, admittedly, we've barely met him), while Genghis Khan is forcing a tribute of fishes. Our diplomatic ties with Temujin have also been damaged by the "faux pas" event, so they're probably not worth saving.

Maybe we should load up on Spears and take out Mongolia? At least that would put us in position to encircle China and take it out at our leisure.
 
An AI demanding resource tribute is one of the cheapest scource of diplo points. I always love if the come around and bring me a 10 turns peace treaty, +1 in diplo for the cost of a resource for 10 turns.
 
Maybe we should load up on Spears and take out Mongolia? At least that would put us in position to encircle China and take it out at our leisure.

Do you really want to let the Protective Qin survive long enough to nab Feudalism or, god forbid, Machinery? I don't know what difficulty level you're playing, but anything Monarch and above will result in China getting Feudalism before you finish Construction. You should go for Qin ASAP with a mixed stack of CRI Axemen and either Combat I or Flanking I Chariots. Even if you only get one city, you'll likely stunt Qin's growth which, at the very least, will slow their research rate until you get Cats and Swords to finish him off. Or, even better, make him an easy target for Mongolia. And while they duke it out, you can build a SoD to finish them both off.

Also, I agree that you should get the gold and silver ASAP. Settle on the island south of Honshu and one more city on top of the Dye. That way you'll be maximizing your overseas trade route income from the GL, resulting in +6 commerce in every city. After the GL, I wouldn't go for more wonders, just solidify the Sino,China-Mongolia-Indo-China zone and turn your eyes towards the New World, or Europe.

Also, get a galley out towards Europe. By the time it gets there, someone should have Alphabet so you can backfill and keep up.

As far as techs, it would be nice to see you nab Ironworking, then head for Construction, picking up Currency immediately afterward. Hopefully You'll be able to trade Construction and Currency with Europe for CoL, Monarchy, Metal Casting and other useful techs.
 
It's not a bad idea to take out Mongolia, but Ghengis has got poor land while Qin is gonna be a monster later. I say go for Qin first.
 
Whitefire said:
... I don't know what difficulty level you're playing, ...
Please, look at the settings screen in post #1, this isn't the first time someone asks about the settings.

But I clearly agree with going for QSH asap.
 
All right. I'm hearing from a few people that I should claim the Gold and Silver, and I'm inclined to agree. I even agree on the locations (I love that one-tile island to claim the gold, though the plains hill is also viable). The question is, how should that be prioritized given that we also need to build an army and the GLH? Should I Pop rush some Axemen (or Swordsmen) and put the overflow into the GLH? Should I switch to settlers and get the Silver city claimed? What do you all think?
 
Settle first, then hit Qin with swords (supported by a spear or two and some archers for garrison duty) ASAP. You don't need Catapults, just Combat I / City Raider I swords and the will to lose a few. Qin doesn't have copper nearby (the closest one is in the Burma area, and IIRC there's one near Genghis), so I don't see the benefit of making axes. Swords are superior against archers and chariots. Settling the gold and silver cites also give you a little time to research Iron Working.

I like the dye location for the silver and the forested plains hill for the gold. The one-tile island (Taiwan, I suppose) is not much of a city due to the proximity of Tokyo, plus you'll miss being able to work the incense on the homeland.
 
In this round, I learned to stop worrying and love the Sword (or, in this case, the Axe).

To begin, I temporarily abandoned production of the GLH to get Satsuma founded on the home islands:

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The (one and only) Japanese worker is, as you can see, up there and ready to start mining the Silver, which came in handy. In Satsuma, we built a Monument, borrowing Kyoto's Copper mine for two turns to get a kick start, then switching to the Silver (soon to be a silver mine). It hit pop 2 and completed the mine around the same time, so I burned the population point to complete the Monument and get a Warrior out in one turn.

Unless something truly bizarre happens, the homeland will be safe throughout the game, so there's no need to garrison with real units, and, with Hunting researched this round, the days of the Warrior were limited. I then started on a Worker, which was probably a stupid thing to do, but with no real food resources there (and with the Silver mine only providing one surplus food per turn), I figured we really needed a second Worker.

Kyoto, meanwhile, started back up on the GLH. It worked on it until growth approached the happy cap, at which point I moved to an Axeman, whipping him out for two pop and applying the surplus to our World Wonder. The Axeman, obviously, boarded the S.S. Shogun for transport to Tokyo. Osaka and Kyoto also balanced hammers and the whip throughout the round, building up a small final force of three Axemen outside of Tokyo plus one garrison unit in each city (Warriors all around except for Tokyo, which gets an Axeman).

Anyway, in 850, Kyoto finally finished the hub of our early strategy:

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So there's where we stand. We have four cities, none of which are very developed, and a small fighting force. We do, however, have a lot of potential, with China (supposedly) ripe for conquest, 90% of the Pacific Rim open for our colonies, and the Great Lighthouse to make those colonies and conquests profitable.

What we lack, mostly, are Workers to till the soil. I regret only having one in 850 B.C., but there was so much else that needed building. That could reasonably change, though, in the very near future:

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That Worker looks to be converting the Farm into a Cottage. He should be easy pickings.

Here's a better look at the Empire of Japan:

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As you can see, a fourth Axe and a Swordsman will be joining the party real soon now, especially if I flex my itchy whipping finger. That Worker fiasco in Satsuma continues. Maybe I should switch to something else just to let the city grow someone I can put in chains.

Kyoto is working on another Settler to claim that Gold. I'm still conflicted on where to put him. If I build it on the mainland, the Gold will be available immediately and the incense will be able to be worked. If I put him on the tiny island, it'll improve its trade income in the long term. In addition, if we're going to be driving our enemies before us, we'll need to put our capital on the mainland eventually. Isn't three cities the magic number for colonial maintenance? We might be better served only having two cities in Japan proper.

Anyway, here are the Domestic Advisor and the Power Graph:

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As you can see, the Chinese are stronger than us, but not by a heck of a lot. I don't know that we have enough to take a city yet. Should we Declare, steal the Worker, and let Qin build up his forces until we have a proper stack, or keep him in the dark and hope he builds us some Wonders while we sharpen our Axes?

Another concern for the next round: If I remember correctly, the AI sucks at settling China. Tons of cities one off the coast. Should we keep these substandard cities or raze them and risk letting the Mongols reap our rewards?

So there we have it. I think I've made some good decisions so far, but I don't feel like I have a lot to show for it. Thoughts?
 
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