Tboy
Future world ruler
A point about the whole Portugal thing - if this is going to be as moddable as Civ4, some modder will probably quickly make a portugal mod (along with possibly the Germans, Ottomans e.t.c.).
No Americas map??
- Thread starter MadMaligor
- Start date
A point about the whole Portugal thing - if this is going to be as moddable as Civ4, some modder will probably quickly make a portugal mod (along with possibly the Germans, Ottomans e.t.c.).
I think it is silly of Firaxis not to include an Americas map with Colonization (if it's true). It really does take out the realism (and fun) by having some fictional continent to colonise. But as someone else said, we'll have 20 or so custom American scenarios available in the first month, so nothing really to get upset about.
My first game is going to be on an American map, however.
So somebody better make a good one as soon as it's released. 
My first game is going to be on an American map, however.
So somebody better make a good one as soon as it's released. I think it is silly of Firaxis not to include an Americas map with Colonization (if it's true). It really does take out the realism (and fun) by having some fictional continent to colonise. But as someone else said, we'll have 20 or so custom American scenarios available in the first month, so nothing really to get upset about.
My first game is going to be on an American map, however.
Where's the realism in knowing where everything is?
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
Well, where is the realism in reenacting the colonization of America if it isn't in fact taking place on a map of America? But maybe you really meant 'Where is the challenge?' ?
Greybriar
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2006
- Messages
- 418
In the original Colonization, you have the option of playing on a random map if you don't want to play on a map of the Americas. I expect the same option will exist in the new version.
GreatDeceiver
Chieftain
Colonizing a random map IS far, far more realistic than colonizing a map of the Americas. The explorers and early colonists had no idea what lay beyond the next cape or over the next hill. You do. You know sailing up up the St. Lawrence will get you to the Great Lakes and not the Orient. You recognize the strategic importance of Panama at the very outset. Do you beeline at turn one towards Incan lands to plunder their lands for gold? To the big proponents of an Americas map, please don't tell me you are conducting a realistic re-enactment of the colonization of America just because you are playing on a map of the western hemisphere. To me, that is self deception.
Give me a random map any day. I much prefer the adventure at the start of a Colonization or Civilization game where each step (move) is into the unknown. That is, in a very small and vicarious way, a recreation of the spirit of exploration and colonization. It is part of the reason for the success of the Civilization series as well.
But to each their own. I may play the Americas map once or twice. For those who think the game is only worth playing on a map of the Americas, go right ahead. I challenge you to play it exclusively, (because otherwise it wouldnt be realistic). After you the play the map as the English, the French, the Dutch, and the Spanish a few times, then what? Even if you could play the same map as the Portuguese, I suspect even our Portuguese friends would get very bored, very soon.
Panzeh pretty much said it all with his post: "Where's the realism in knowing where everything is?"
Give me a random map any day. I much prefer the adventure at the start of a Colonization or Civilization game where each step (move) is into the unknown. That is, in a very small and vicarious way, a recreation of the spirit of exploration and colonization. It is part of the reason for the success of the Civilization series as well.
But to each their own. I may play the Americas map once or twice. For those who think the game is only worth playing on a map of the Americas, go right ahead. I challenge you to play it exclusively, (because otherwise it wouldnt be realistic). After you the play the map as the English, the French, the Dutch, and the Spanish a few times, then what? Even if you could play the same map as the Portuguese, I suspect even our Portuguese friends would get very bored, very soon.
Panzeh pretty much said it all with his post: "Where's the realism in knowing where everything is?"
I imagine most people don't know where everything is. Do you know every geographic feature of the continent?
I only have a vague idea of the shape of America, that's it. Probably because I live in Australia and America doesn't interest me (I prefer Europe and Asia over Australia and America.)
So when I play Colonization I think it will definitely be more realistic to be playing on America rather than some random map. But after you've played the American map a couple of times, I think most people will want to try out the random map feature for a change.
GreatDeceiver
Chieftain
Do you know every geographic feature of the continent?
I certainly don't, and I consider myself a geographer. But it won't take more than a few times playing the same map, before I will know that particular map thoroughly. And if I'm so inclined, I can replay that map, knowing all its inherent strengths and weaknesses, and exploit it following a predetermined series of steps. Boring...
GreatDeceiver said:
Exactly my point. You play the real map for your first game, and then you play random maps until you forget it, and then you can play on the American continent again.
Or, if you rather, you can play the same map over and over so you can exploit it.
It's just like regular Civ IV, I've played many, many random maps, but I've only played the Earth map a couple of times. The games I had on the Earth map, however, were really fun and memorable.
But it's silly of Firaxis not to include a map of the Americas with Colonization, which is why I believe that it will ship with an American map - for the people that want to play on it (which is most people.)
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
For realism in the sense of exploring a never-before-seen land then yes - you need a random map every time you play.
However, for realism in the sense of attempting to rewrite history of the colonization of the real Americas then you can't acheive that without a decent premade map of the real Americas.
However, for realism in the sense of attempting to rewrite history of the colonization of the real Americas then you can't acheive that without a decent premade map of the real Americas.
The Fishman
Resident Megalomaniac
They'll probably just add an Americas map later. You can't have an alternative history scenario without an accurate map, that would be crazy.
Jon Shafer
Civilization 5 Designer
There will be a number of pre-made maps included with the game, so you guys don't need to worry. 
Jon
Jon
There will be a number of pre-made maps included with the game, so you guys don't need to worry.
Jon
Nice of you to drop by, Jon (you are always Trip in my mind!). Any idea when we might get more info from Firaxis, like an official website or screenshots?
Jon Shafer
Civilization 5 Designer
Afraid not. I only worked on Colonization for a brief period of time near the beginning of development, so the plans they have for it are a mystery to me as well.Nice of you to drop by, Jon (you are always Trip in my mind!). Any idea when we might get more info from Firaxis, like an official website or screenshots?
Jon
GeneralN20
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
- Messages
- 33
You have to take into account that the average idiot barely knows anything about America. People from the US only see Canada and Mexico as the only recognizable countries in their minds, and everybody else is either a Canadian or a Mexican (even if the person is from another country). People from the rest of the world (mainly Europe) see anything related to America to simply the United States (hence you get all those ridiculous movies with the classic European immigrant constantly mentioning the US as if it were all of America); everything else is a mystical jungle in their mind.
Of course, for those of us who know how America looks, the map would be no secret...
Nonetheless, I still would have more fun playing in an American map than in a random map.
CyberChrist
You caught my attention
Jay Leno on the Tonight show once asked people on the street to point out the US on a world map. One guy confidently pointed at Siberia
r_rolo1
King of myself
As a native of a European country, I beg to difer
The example you quoted is about what the Americans think that the Europeans know ( and Freud would explain quite nicely that as mirroring ) 
I highly doubt that a Portuguese will confuse Brazil with colombia, that a Spanish will confuse Cuba with Guetemala ; that a englishman will confuse Canada with Peru or that a French will confuse Quebec with Chile.......GeneralN20
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
- Messages
- 33
You know, I thought that too. Sadly, and I really mean sadly, it's true for the most part.
Of course, as with all stereotypical things, there are some exceptions, but for the most part people do act that way...it's really ridiculous, but funny.
Aside from knowing where Brazil is at, the Portuguese would then confuse Bolivia with Peru, Colombia with Venezuela, etc.
Lol. I can tell you with certainty that most Spaniards barely know any of the nations that became independent from them. Moreover, the royalty still sees them as colonies.
The same as with the above, an Englishman would only know about the existance of their own (Canada and the U.S.), but they probably wouldn't be able to point them in a map.
The Canada-Peru flag confusion constantly happens. It's the Canadian's fault, though. Peru's flag is older.
The French probably only know about Quebec and their Guiana. If you can find one that can effectively point the location of Haiti (a past French colony), I'd be surprised.
I know the truth hurts, but the facts always come to show that the average person is...well...stupid. Most of the Europeans I've met fit that description like a hand in a glove; with the exception from my friends. The average person from America (the continent) is just as stupid about Europe and the rest of the world.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I highly doubt that Portuguese would confuse Venezuela with Colombia, given that a 1 million of Portuguese and Portuguese descendants live in Venezuela ( I have some family there )...
But I'm really not the "average" ( whatever that means ) person regarding maps ( I can draw a quite accurate world map from memory )... so I'll not talk of myself
)...But I'm really not the "average" ( whatever that means ) person regarding maps ( I can draw a quite accurate world map from memory )... so I'll not talk of myself
