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Lonely Hearts Club, BtS Edition, Chapter XXIV : Napoleon

r_rolo1

r_rolo1

King of myself
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Welcome to the 24th edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

For the 24th game in BTS the choosed leader was Napoleon Le Petit of the French:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

I must say that I really like playing with Napoleon. In spite on not having any of the nerdy traits ( Phi, fin,... ) the combination of Org and cha makes that Napoleon can switch with some ease from peace to war and that it will cope better with expansion ( both vertical and horizontal ).... he's that kind of leader that I pick when i'm aiming for a nice war game with Dom as a objective :devil:

In here, I think that it will make to get more and more populated cities earlier.... and possibly a war spree later ( Cha really shines in the post Medieval eras ;) ). Or maybe you can appeal to the UB and make a cultural trail.....

His UU
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

I already talked more extensively of the musketeer in the De Gaulle LHC... Let's just say in here that the extra mobility is a good thing, but probably in here you will not be able to use it much.....

His UB.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

Again, i already pointed my opinion on the Salon in the De Gaulle LHC.... I think that is a building made for cultural wins ( a thing that I'm really not a fan ) due to the extra free artist. But it can also excel researchwise : a 25% :science: building that also gives extra 3 :science: if you're using Rep ;)

The start (for reasons that I'll explain below, the warrior may not be exactly in that spot in your game ):
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Quite decent start: 2 food sources and a lake, 8 hills ( 3 of them plains, 2 of this riverside ), some woods, a river ( always 1 tile away :gripe: ), a nearby whale.... not a cottage heaven, but a seriously strong prod site.

Regarding the saves: given some complaints about the efects of the AI starting without archery in high levels ( giving a unfair advantage to AI that have early UU and/or have early warmongering tendencies ), I decided to make 3 WB saves ( all in the same zip file ). The WB saves are equal except for the fact that one of them ( labeled Monarch ) has all of the AI with archery as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Monarch ), one ( labeled Immortal ) has all of the AI with archery,hunting and agriculture as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Immortal ) while the last is the corresponding to a game starting in Noble ( labeled Noble ). All WB saves are playable in all levels, but ( for a example ) if you use the Monarch one the AI will start with archery ( and archers ) in any level. This has only a slight effect in the human directly ( mainly via the garrisons of barb cities ), but has a huge effect on the AI gaming in the outer lands ( avoiding scenarios like Pacal, Shaka or Sitting Bull to take all the barb cities and becoming moguls ). I strongly recommend the usage of the Monarch save if you want to play in Monarch+ and the Immortal at Immortal/Deity.... All the speeds are working well ( no more games ending in 1900 ) The saves are zipped... you only have to unzip this to the worldbuilder saves or for the PublicMaps folder ( either one will do ) and load it from the scenarios.
Any problem PM me...

P.S WB saves are crosscompatible between 3.13 and 3.17 if they don't have No Espionage ticked. No problem with the patches here :p

Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).


The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!



P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)
 

Attachments

Well, I forgot about finishing my Catherine game . . . sorry rolo, I seem to be cutting a lot of corners on your series, which still remains one of my fav series on these boards.

I will post another round update on that one though, but I can DEFINITELY say, without hesitation, that the "Archery" save made all the difference in the world. The AIs were more advanced when I wanted to roll Rifles and Cannons on them.

That being said, I am looking forward to another good, tough battle this round, playing Monarch/Epic again from the Monarch save. This is a great leader for overseas stuff, ORG lets you whip a Courthouse ASAP when you take over an AI city, which is HUGE when you are talking about separate continents.

I love the GLH in these, so I am psyched we have a strong coastal start as well. GLH works so well in these, since you meet the AIs before Astro, find your friends/foes, then pop Astro and watch your Trade Route values hit the roof! Only think I dont like about it is hitting Astro early with a CHA leader, heh, I have that same debate with Hannibal games, "Astro and lose Monument bonuses, or not". But then I remember I can (hopefully) leverage Astro to trade for Happy Resources to make up for the loss of the monument happy face.
 
DMOC said:
What are the "resaons" for not having the warrior in the same starting location? It doesn't seem to explain clearly in the rest of your post?
Click to expand...
Its because when you start a game from a Scenario, the placement of your starting unit is random, while your settler is "defined" in the WB. The AIs all start with all their units on their starting tile (which is defined in the WB save) but the Human starts with his starting non-settler unit on a random tile in the "known" area (tiles visible by the Settler).
 
Hi

Noble, marathon

Moved warrior and have question bout start.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg


Okies so my game started with warrior 1 west of settler. So I moved him down 1 se. And now I am in quandry already. I feel like it is a case of short term vs longterm. If I move settler 1 west then cap can work 2 crabs, the whales sheep and the silver mine and still have like 5 hills going and still be on the lake. That seems best move for long term since I have chance to get more tiles actually worked. I would lose one of silver mines but then another city COULD have chance to work that one without worrying too much about overlap.

Short term move seems settle in place. I will miss working the whales almost definitely and maybe even the second crabs unless I make BIG overlap with another city. BUT working two silver asap seems to be better move short term. Pluss I get started on everything a turn sooner.

I dont know I am very seriously thinking of moving settler 1 west but not 100% sure it best move. This is kind of a situation where I think difference in skill level shows up. People have talked about "no brainer" decisions.

And maybe this is one but I honestly cant tell. Maybe in place is no brainer, maybe moving is the no brainer maybe even something all together diffrent is no brainer (like maybe 1 south to get on river square and hope unrevealed land ends up pretty nice? I miss out on xtra crabs that way but get whales and keep both silver BUT if I am gonna wast turn moving moving 1 west ends up making sure most tiles that can be worked end up being worked so does that make 1 west better than 1 south?). To me none of choices is solid no brainer. it is just like I said one way looks best long term and another looks best short term but I am not 100% even THAT reading of map so far is smart reading :/

Right now I am leaning towrds 1 west but think I should make absolute final decision next turn after moving warrior on eastern silver to get better view down there to see if anything might make moving 1 south more tempting.

But any advice on which move to make and especially any explaining what maybe I am missing or not taking into account on making reading of map would be helpful and very appreciated.

And game already seems to be messing with me since while I normally TOTALLY ignore those blue circles game usually puts. NOW when one might actually be helpful no flipping circle anywhere at all grrrr.


Kaytie
 
@Kaytie
Spoiler :
You will not be able to take advantage of the whale until Optics.... so my bet ( the one I'm using now ;) ) is to settle in place. Riverside plains silver hills are one of the more rare tiles in game and it is a strong move to have them on the capital BFC

P.S I was a little :devil: in not showing the silver in the starting screenie, wasn't I? :p
 
(maybe) important info:

Spoiler :
Napoleon is not exactly isolated. I put a city 8N 1E of the starting location and after its second border pop I could sail to the island northwest of me... at least that was what I thought.

However, that turned out to be a continent rather than an island! Already ran into Asoka and Tokugawa - and there is at least one more.
 
Kaytie:
Spoiler :
I dont think there is a "no-brainer" here. A lot of it is a matter of personal preference regarding overlap, splitting food, burning a turn and a forest, etc. Speaking for myself, I was considering moving the settler 1S, to be on the river, and save the extra crab for another city to the NW, without as much overlap as settling in place.

1W is a definite option though, the extra silver to the south can likely be included in another city. But in the end, I dont think any of the choices is "wrong" or "bad".
 
Napo is probably my favorite leader, great trait combination and i don't usually care about artist pollution with the UB.

The isolated island/continent (haven't looked the start, or starting post yet) represents Corsica? ;)

I might actually try this out. After the beers..
 
PaulusIII said:
(maybe) important info:

Spoiler :
Napoleon is not exactly isolated. I put a city 8N 1E of the starting location and after its second border pop I could sail to the island northwest of me... at least that was what I thought.

However, that turned out to be a continent rather than an island! Already ran into Asoka and Tokugawa - and there is at least one more.
Click to expand...

Spoiler :
Technically Napoleon is isolated... if you hadn't putted the city in that exact spot you would not have access to the outer lands until Astro ( in spite of that ocean fish being a obvious clue ;) )
 
r_rolo1 said:
Spoiler :
Technically Napoleon is isolated... if you hadn't putted the city in that exact spot you would not have access to the outer lands until Astro ( in spite of that ocean fish being a obvious clue ;) )
Click to expand...

Spoiler :
Actually, for once I got lucky on a map from a hut. :D
 
@Kaytie
Spoiler :

Starting in place and 1 west are both viable decisions, leading to different capitals.

First, as rolo said, the whale should not influence the decision as he will not be of any use for a long time.
In-place gets both silver mines and more production (green hills), 1 west gets more food.
The one thing that bothers me is:
Normally, with 5 grassland hills you could just ignore the two plain-hills and use your food to feed the silver mines.
But that empty hill screams "hidden ressource" and if you get iron or copper you will have a hard
time to feed all of them.
On marathon-speed I would use 1 turn, settler 1 west.
Then next turn warrior 1 SE, then make the decision about settling.
 
r_rolo1 said:
Spoiler :
Technically Napoleon is isolated... if you hadn't putted the city in that exact spot you would not have access to the outer lands until Astro ( in spite of that ocean fish being a obvious clue ;) )
Click to expand...
Emperor/normal, checkpoint 2.5 (900AD)

Spoiler :
That ocean fish was a big clue as far as the culture bridge city was concerned - I founded Orleans to act as that bridge (and grab horses/fish in the first ring). I even managed to get a two city foothold on the main continent before the space filled up, although one had to be placed suboptimally to stop Cyrus from stealing the location.

I've met 6/7 of the AIs and look to be on for a liberalism win. Just wish I'd gambled on the ocean fish pointing to a major landmass rather than a small island and built the GLH - that'd be huge on this map. As things stand, I'm setting up a decent Globe city on the mainland and plan on using a renaissance war as the springboard to a domination win. Given my warmongering though, it remains to be seen how that'll pan out.
 
Hello all, been following these games for a month or 2 and thought it time to play along.

I have explored some land and have created a dotmap (i know you all love dotmaps!!)

Spoiler :

I chose Monarch\Epic as i've been handed my ass recently on Empor.

I decide to move the settler 1S to take advantage of the silver, though it best to hog due to limited land and the shape of the coastline. I feel it best as when Buracy hits not only will the production be good but the comm too.
Saw an interesting pop up too.
Frog 2 Dead Arabs0000.JPG


Here is my planned dot map.
Frog Dot map111.JPG

Not a fan of overlaps esp on the capital, as well never really used GLH. However following some of the games posted here have convinced me that some things are required to really leverage the early BC's on higher levels. Plus as a safety net i want 8 cites on this lsland.

Currently aiming for GLH and hopefully then the 'Mids. 2nd city should pop soon to stone, will farm and produce some settlers + workers.





To 550AD - All Civs Met

Spoiler :


Right missed the 'Mids but got the GLH.

Saw a chance for the Oracle,
Oracal - Mach0000.JPG


Sucess.
Optics 205AD0000.JPG


Built a few Tirems and upgraded, few more carvels to see the lie of the land.
Met all Civs sadly Salidin didn't make it to the party, think Gilamesh routed him early.

At 550AD

roundmap0000.JPG


realations0000.JPG


trade0000.JPG


For the next round;

I have no Army or even a good defence force, need both before Astro. Going to head that way ASAP via Lib. hopefully i'll have REX'd the island and have harbours and markets to benfit the GLH. As i have mapped round i have +1 so will continue the sea scouting. Also need to think about an invasion. I have the added problem from a school boy error. i have -4 from 3 civs due to a stupid trade with everyones worst enema Mr Ghandi. Still i have a tech lead on some paths and will try some religious based boot licking if the oppertunity arises.

 
signing up, monarch/epic. i'll definitely play, whether i post my rounds or not is a matter of whether or not i remember.

ps: nappy is a wicked awesome leader to play

edit: adding checkpoint 1 rather than making a new post.

Spoiler :
it's official, we're alone:cry:, but since thats the point:lol:

i've mapped out 9 potential sites, although i think i can do better, there are still 4 unused tiles (i think, i havnt actually drawn the crosses to check what i've missed) and 2 of the sites are inland (which i don't like because it diminishes the GLH a bit.)
LHC24wemaybealonebutwehaveaplan0000.jpg


you may notice i settled 1s, grabbing the river is always good, levees etc, and it turns out that there is another silver down there. although in retrospect 1w may have been better because it would have allowed another city to grab that second whale to the south of our position. there is another island visible, but we wont be able to get to it until the second border pop (if it actually goes out all the way, and i doubt it will) of a city on the plains hill nearest it or optics/astro, whichever happens first.

anyways, techpath so far (for what its worth) was fishing -> mining -> BW and the builds were warrior -> workboat -> worker, my worker will be in the turn before BW as it should be. i saw no advantage to building a worker first seeing as how there would be little for him to do, i suppose i could have gotten the silver online faster, but i like to think with my stomach and go for food first.
 
Monarch / Epic, checkpoint un

Spoiler :
I elect to settle 1S of the starting location, to get the whales, riverside, and the extra silver. It appears to be a no-brainer. I start researching Fishing while building a warrior.

We have stone. I'm thinking Pyramids, particularly since Organized gives a discount when running those pricey civics.

Hut popped a scout, all the better for future huts. Warrior heading back to gay Paree. Next hut popped Animal Lovin'.

The map itself: other than the capital site, there are no uber-locations. There are two two-food sites suitable for a SE, and the FP location for cottages galore. Of course, I don't know where iron or copper are yet, either, so some of the spots may shift.

My first priority is to get a worker out then two quick settlers to get the horses and stone hooked up. Hopefully iron and copper will appear. Paris will start on the Pyramids while the horse/pig city hoepfully can pump out the remaining settlers for the island. I then want to settle the floodplains area and the SE city sites and start researching hard for Optics.
 
What's this? I roll out of bed WAY too late and a new LHC is up.

Signing in. I'd say some nonsense about "splitting" time between APG and this, but knowing how I play that's kind of a joke. Maybe I'll let some "comments pile up on where to settle" in APG :p. Not likely. Anyway the spot looks good so I'll probably settle in place. Sometimes hammers are hard to come by in LHC. Not here. I'm looking for some revenge after failing Cathy/Sury pretty miserably (Cathy I just attacked with too soon).
 
Checkpoint 1, 2, 3 790 AD.

Emperor/Epic

Spoiler :
WHOA. My warrior spawned to the south. Who said this isn't a "commerce capitol"?! :lol:. I settle 1S. Pretending I don't know I'm isolated I tech fishing while building a warrior. Next techs after that will be AH/mining.

3700 Warrior completes, start work boat
3550 Mysticism from a hut
3475 Buddhism is founded - quite late! I also bump into something suspicious:

3475Anotherlandmass0000.jpg


Fish don't spawn in the middle of the ocean, unworkable to all city sites. However, my land can't access that...
3425 Hindu goes.
3275 Work boat complete, starting worker.
3000 Have mining, starting BW
2900 Starting 2nd worker.
2525 Going pottery/writing, holding off on slavery until SH is complete.
2150 I get SH, getting defender/settler
2100 Have writing, now going the route for monarchy and opening up theology bulb.
1650 I settle the pig city north of the capitol on the plains hill
925 Silver is rapidly hiking tech speed. I finish all religious techs before theo + monarchy and am now headed for currency.
900 I found Lyons so that I can explore the other land mass. Capitol is stagnated at pop 5 pumping worker/settler while working 3x silver.
485 The culture bridged the gap and I meet...TOKU :(
425 Rheims founded to the east to get 2x clam. Probably moai site.
380 I found Christianity using a GP. I also meet hannibal and open borders.
335 Hannibal and toku were both jewish - now hannibal goes to hindu. Neither founded either religion so there are more AI's.
305 Met sal. HE founded hindu.
260 Met Gilgamesh, running confuc. as he founded it.
170 Tours is founded to cottage all those floodplains we have in the middle of the island.
140 Met Asoka - he's buddhist and the founder
430 I've revolted into bureaucracy OR and HR - going to grab AP in christianity then switch to judaism. I also met the final AI - Cyrus. Like toku he's jewish, which is why i'm going to switch to it.
790 Completed AP

Unique AP religion, ability to run a friendly AI's religion, and the ability to get OB with everyone. What's more, I can't get attacked until astro...we all know how this will end ;).

790south0000.jpg


790north0000.jpg


 
Monarch / Epic, checkpoint deaux

Spoiler :
well I built the pyramids and won the circumnavigation and liberalism races, both of which yielded a bounty of tech trades that let me get mostly caught up, though I was behind in land due to the size of our island nation.

Hannibal and Saladin are Hindu and trying to win an AP victory. Asoka is Cyrus' vassal; both are Buddhist. Gilgamesh is Confucian and teching along on the western part of the great continent. Backwards Toku is Jewish and on the eastern end of the continent, nearest us.

Toku is going to feel some musket lovin'.

Oh, and I got the free pinch promo for muskets, as well as the harbormaster event. My ships are FAST. I decided to wait for Steel so I could obliterate Toku. :devil:

The invasion force was ready to land in 1655.
 
Monarch / Epic, failure

Spoiler :
Well the Toku invasion was going swimmingly (about 25 Musketeers and 8 Cannons), and I had taken two Japanese cities and on my way to rolling him up.

Then Cyrus declared on Toku, took two cities, and vassalized him. This really, really, irritates me ... I have to reduce the AI to two cities to get them to capitulate, but Cyrus can get it done with very little effort. Oh, and he ALREADY HAS A VASSAL in Asoka. This is #$)(*# irritating.

I was in no position to attack Cyrus. The nearest AI to the Cyrus block was Hannibal. So I took my Fleet O Doom and sailed there. I took a city, but lost most of my cannons. Hannibal has machine guns, rifles, and airships.

I can't catch up techwise, and I have no diplomatic way to crawl out of my hole. I give.

In hindsight, I should have attacked sooner.
 
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