King of the World #3: Tokugawa
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
Just recently, I played Roosevelt on this map in BTS and Sword-rushed Monty at 600BC and eliminated him completely by 100AD. I settled all the good land in North and Central America, vassalized Huayna at ~1500AD (he voluntarily joined) and I also REXed much of northern South America. Right now (1745AD), I'm tops in everything except Power. Nevertheless, I got a pretty decent fleet on both coasts in case someone tries to invade as well as some airships and waiting for Combustion to upgrade those Frigates. The game is kind of boring right now as I'm pretty much a lock to win space.
I renamed a few Aztec cities to some of the modern Mexican names.
I renamed a few Aztec cities to some of the modern Mexican names.
@dankok8: Why do settle your cities so far apart? You could use the land much better if you settled more cities.
@Neal: Dropping in again after an abscence: Your game seems to go just fine. One bummer is that you didn't seal off these sneaky islands from asoka.
Nice job getting a good foothold on asia. now The land is secured you can focus on america - shouldn't be a big problem.
Tech and powergraph seem to be well under control - I'm just not sure that invasion fleet is sufficient - reinforcements will take some time.
Curious how it plays out. Looks like a walk in the park but you never know...
@Neal: Dropping in again after an abscence: Your game seems to go just fine. One bummer is that you didn't seal off these sneaky islands from asoka.
Nice job getting a good foothold on asia. now The land is secured you can focus on america - shouldn't be a big problem.
Tech and powergraph seem to be well under control - I'm just not sure that invasion fleet is sufficient - reinforcements will take some time.
Curious how it plays out. Looks like a walk in the park but you never know...
Okay, okay. Bad pun. But this round was all about pacifying India and getting them comfortable with their new status as a slave-nation of the Japanese empire.
We started by trying to uplift our current, savage vassals:
He's looking rather sheepish there. Probably because we had to do that two or three times. Genghis Khan will probably never be *useful* to us, except as a shield to the north, but I figured we should put forth the effort.
In 1390, the inevitable finally happened:
Sorry, Roosevelt. We, um, tried. Getting involved in America's doomed last stand was a huge mistake, as we were to find out later. As you can see there, we also got a Great Engineer. Despite his rarity and value, I burned him for a Golden Age. We needed the secret of Rifles, and the hammers and cash needed to produce them, quickly.
We set up our missionary ship to head for the New World:
The Incas converted quickly and were more than happy to join the Buddhist community. The Aztecs, though, refused to open their borders, no matter what we did to butter them up. That (fake) war was just unforgiveable, I guess. So much for a quick and easy Apostolic Palace victory.
And, of course, we decided against conversion by the sword in favor of battling heresy closer to home:
As you can see, we have our "Victory Fleet" ready to ravage the southern tip of India. Rifling was ready, and Asoka was still stuck on Maces and Muskets. This was our opportunity.
We had another stack ready to attack from the east, through Bangladesh:
We fended off Asoka's pitiful strike and prepared to open a two-front war.
Pataliputra fell quickly, and I upgraded the entire force with modern weapons:
Gotta love the free upgrades for Great-General-Led units, of which I have two: A Samurai City Raider and a Pikeman Medic, both of which are now Riflemen.
At this point, we sold the very latest in Japanese technology for Military Tradition, Constitution, and Scientific Method. Thanks, Mansa, Elizabeth, and Catherine (respectively)!
Having done its job defensively, our Nanjing stack was ready to take the fight to the enemy:
And, of course, since the game loves nothing more than to mock me, our Spy failed to Incite Revolt despite a good six or seven turns of hanging out, laying the groundwork. Ah, well. We weren't going to fail. It was just going to take a bit more effort.
Calcutta finally fell in 1490:
It was a tough decision, but I decided to keep it. Yeah, it's a crappy site, but it's already developed and, assuming we were going to vassalize Asoka, we didn't need a razing demerit.
Our southern stack took its sweet time finally reaching Vijayanagara, having had to upgrade and cut roads and such to cover the skeleton crew defending Pataliputra, but it was finally in place in 1505:
It was quite juicy:
Suddenly, our war weariness problems were India's war weariness problems. Not to mention the economic benefit of having Versailles on our side.
Our second stack, meanwhile, marched on Bombay:
And our Naval stack finally sat outside the walls of Delhi:
With that accursed city in the hills of Nepal Asoka's final continental stronghold (and frankly not worth the effort of beseiging), we finally accepted Asoka's surrender:
We got some gold and a Pacific colony. Nor a terrible haul.
We also signed a Defensive Pact with Russia and managed to bring India back into the fold of the Faith:
So, in 1540, I decided to make my report and once again solicit advice. Here's the new Espionage allocation:
Our hemisphere:
And the not-our hemisphere:
Insight into our top cities:
The power graph:
Techs:
And the Diplomacy web:
So, India, too, is now ours. It's probably for the best. I don't know how well our forces would have stood against the 30 or 40 Catapults I'm sure Monty would have thrown at us (I've tried the continental invasion before, and it's fun, but a bit tedious).
So I take it the rallying call is going to be for Cyrus' head? Or is it time to make peace and build infrastructure? Or should we run a suicide Missionary and push for the Apostolic Victory? I'm interested to see what you all think.
We started by trying to uplift our current, savage vassals:
He's looking rather sheepish there. Probably because we had to do that two or three times. Genghis Khan will probably never be *useful* to us, except as a shield to the north, but I figured we should put forth the effort.
In 1390, the inevitable finally happened:
Sorry, Roosevelt. We, um, tried. Getting involved in America's doomed last stand was a huge mistake, as we were to find out later. As you can see there, we also got a Great Engineer. Despite his rarity and value, I burned him for a Golden Age. We needed the secret of Rifles, and the hammers and cash needed to produce them, quickly.
We set up our missionary ship to head for the New World:
The Incas converted quickly and were more than happy to join the Buddhist community. The Aztecs, though, refused to open their borders, no matter what we did to butter them up. That (fake) war was just unforgiveable, I guess. So much for a quick and easy Apostolic Palace victory.
And, of course, we decided against conversion by the sword in favor of battling heresy closer to home:
As you can see, we have our "Victory Fleet" ready to ravage the southern tip of India. Rifling was ready, and Asoka was still stuck on Maces and Muskets. This was our opportunity.
We had another stack ready to attack from the east, through Bangladesh:
We fended off Asoka's pitiful strike and prepared to open a two-front war.
Pataliputra fell quickly, and I upgraded the entire force with modern weapons:
Gotta love the free upgrades for Great-General-Led units, of which I have two: A Samurai City Raider and a Pikeman Medic, both of which are now Riflemen.
At this point, we sold the very latest in Japanese technology for Military Tradition, Constitution, and Scientific Method. Thanks, Mansa, Elizabeth, and Catherine (respectively)!
Having done its job defensively, our Nanjing stack was ready to take the fight to the enemy:
And, of course, since the game loves nothing more than to mock me, our Spy failed to Incite Revolt despite a good six or seven turns of hanging out, laying the groundwork. Ah, well. We weren't going to fail. It was just going to take a bit more effort.
Calcutta finally fell in 1490:
It was a tough decision, but I decided to keep it. Yeah, it's a crappy site, but it's already developed and, assuming we were going to vassalize Asoka, we didn't need a razing demerit.
Our southern stack took its sweet time finally reaching Vijayanagara, having had to upgrade and cut roads and such to cover the skeleton crew defending Pataliputra, but it was finally in place in 1505:
It was quite juicy:
Suddenly, our war weariness problems were India's war weariness problems. Not to mention the economic benefit of having Versailles on our side.
Our second stack, meanwhile, marched on Bombay:
And our Naval stack finally sat outside the walls of Delhi:
With that accursed city in the hills of Nepal Asoka's final continental stronghold (and frankly not worth the effort of beseiging), we finally accepted Asoka's surrender:
We got some gold and a Pacific colony. Nor a terrible haul.
We also signed a Defensive Pact with Russia and managed to bring India back into the fold of the Faith:
So, in 1540, I decided to make my report and once again solicit advice. Here's the new Espionage allocation:
Our hemisphere:
And the not-our hemisphere:
Insight into our top cities:
The power graph:
Techs:
And the Diplomacy web:
So, India, too, is now ours. It's probably for the best. I don't know how well our forces would have stood against the 30 or 40 Catapults I'm sure Monty would have thrown at us (I've tried the continental invasion before, and it's fun, but a bit tedious).
So I take it the rallying call is going to be for Cyrus' head? Or is it time to make peace and build infrastructure? Or should we run a suicide Missionary and push for the Apostolic Victory? I'm interested to see what you all think.
So civs have democracy, so you might get emancipation unhappiness soon.
With your modern troops, you could attack the Americas, I suppose, but that'd ruin your DP with Cathy.
You could also attack Persia I suppose, if you take those southern 3 cities, they'll be severly hurt.
With your modern troops, you could attack the Americas, I suppose, but that'd ruin your DP with Cathy.
You could also attack Persia I suppose, if you take those southern 3 cities, they'll be severly hurt.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Cathy is not reliable anyway, so why to take a DP with her? A serious one at least......
A question: why not a quick raid on the Inca? Sure their land utter crap, but he has a double holy city and probalby atleast a shrine. It would also give you a foothold in the americas instead of simply dropping troops in montyland
A question: why not a quick raid on the Inca? Sure their land utter crap, but he has a double holy city and probalby atleast a shrine. It would also give you a foothold in the americas instead of simply dropping troops in montyland
Regarding the Defensive Pact with Catherine: We're the big dog on this map in terms of military might, so I'm not really afraid of getting sucked into a war we can't win. Cathy's no slouch, either. In fact, a war would give our restless troops a new target without having to make a Declaration ourselves. More than likely, though, one of us or the other is going to be an aggressor. At the very least, I doubt anyone is going to throw themselves at a pact between the #3 and the runaway #1 on the power chart. It's just a cheap and easy way to gain some temporary diplomatic points with Russia. I'm not taking it too terribly seriously.
Regarding our next war: I am considering an expedition to the Americas. Maybe even trying to make a Holy War out of it with the help of the Apostolic Palace. Fighting Monty can be a real slog, though. Cyrus is also a viable target, especially since Susa's culture impinges so heavily on India. They also very neatly cover our entire western border, so they're the logical next step. Then again, we also have the option of saying enough. But it's never enough for you guys, is it?
I'm surprised I'm not taking any flak for allowing Asoka to keep the Taoist holy city. I decided to end the war early, since taking the city would have added an extra 10-20 turns to the war, but it was a tough decision.
Regarding our next war: I am considering an expedition to the Americas. Maybe even trying to make a Holy War out of it with the help of the Apostolic Palace. Fighting Monty can be a real slog, though. Cyrus is also a viable target, especially since Susa's culture impinges so heavily on India. They also very neatly cover our entire western border, so they're the logical next step. Then again, we also have the option of saying enough. But it's never enough for you guys, is it?
I'm surprised I'm not taking any flak for allowing Asoka to keep the Taoist holy city. I decided to end the war early, since taking the city would have added an extra 10-20 turns to the war, but it was a tough decision.
r_rolo1
King of myself
People know that Tibet in this map is not worth the troops to take it 
As more I think on it, more a raid on the incas looks sensible, if you ask me.... It would help you to attack Monty from the south ( with this maniac, I think that multiple landings in various spots is the best idea... you divert his SoD south and then You strike the capital. Other bouns would be enabiling a canal to the Atlantic , aloowing you to drop troops anywhere you want ), it would give you some calendar resources and possibly a shrine.
I sincerily think that you should only adress wars in Eurasia in this map over a super position of strength. And Cyrus normally is a nice dude to cover our backs
As more I think on it, more a raid on the incas looks sensible, if you ask me.... It would help you to attack Monty from the south ( with this maniac, I think that multiple landings in various spots is the best idea... you divert his SoD south and then You strike the capital. Other bouns would be enabiling a canal to the Atlantic , aloowing you to drop troops anywhere you want ), it would give you some calendar resources and possibly a shrine.
I sincerily think that you should only adress wars in Eurasia in this map over a super position of strength. And Cyrus normally is a nice dude to cover our backs
r_rolo1
King of myself
Or you simply withdraw for a nearby hil and smash his SoD in the city with CR troops
Stewie0416
Who Cares?
wait is Huayna a vassal of Monty or r my eyes fooling me?
Forget Americas for now .. try for domination or conquest. Your power graph is great. Just attack Persia and move west from there, vassalizing/destroying opponents quickly. Americas will always be behind in tech and you can kill Monty at the end with a well coordinated naval assault.
Stewie0416
Who Cares?
dont attack persia yet, they signed a def pack with saladin, and depending on if other civs like him, you may just find youself in a war you cant handle.
This was mostly another rebuilding round, as the masses flocked to our banner and we prepared to crush the heretic.
We started with fairly somber news from Europe:
Wow, Freddy's pretty quick on the old Wonder-draw there. Must've had a Great Engineer or something.
In addition, that Great Merchant is bothersome. We have a Prophet hanging out in Tokyo, and another Great Merchant on his way to Chile. I was hoping for a Scientist or an Artist to spawn a Golden Age (we're up to three GP needed) for a massive State Property-Emancipation-Universal Suffrage-maybe Free Speech revolution.
With a great Merchant, though, we simply finished our trade mission:
As Communism finished, Elizabeth came by with a decent offer:
We also snagged Corporation from Mansa for the secret of Communism. Why did our income go down with that tech? I understand that it obsoletes the Great Lighthouse, but it adds a trade route to EVERY city. So shouldn't it be a net gain?
Without the Golden Age, we had to be much less grandiose in our civics changes:
That ended up reducing our deficit by 60 or so gold per turn, not to mention the food and production bonuses, so it was worth it.
We set our scientists to figure out the secrets of the Assembly Line. If we're gonna war, we're gonna war right.
In 1580, Elizabeth asked us to stop trading with the Aztecs, which I did without much fuss (despite the 12 gold per turn they were providing). They're heathens, anyway.
In 1600, Louis came shuffling to Tokyo on his knees:
He was at war with Caesar, but that didn't concern me too much. Rome is backwards anyway, and he'd take a while to trundle a stack all the way across Eurasia.
And besides, I had acquired a handy western shield:
The dominoes are starting to fall. The best part of having Cyrus as a vassal is that it pulls his culture out of my Indian possessions.
The Roman war turned out to be even less of a problem than I'd anticipated. After all, I'ma da pope:
What? Pass on the chances for conquest and for glory? Yeah, yeah. I don't feel like sending my troops off half a world away to take possessions that'll just be bombarded by neighboring culture and able to work two tiles apiece.
Besides, most of our army was taking to the seas:
So I think that we're ready to make a strike against the Americas. I figure the plan is to take a city or two and upgrade the force to Infantry and Cannon while the Galleons scoot back to pick up reinforcements. Then we can hopefully vassalize Monty, spreading the faith, and take our rightful place as God-King.
There's only one problem. We're not the biggest dog in the fight:
Now, admittedly, that's all obsolete units (Monty is squarely in the Maces and Crossbows phase), but that's a TON of obsolete units. We're probably looking at an assult of 20-30 siege weapons followed by a like number of traditional forces once he gets his stack rolling. That's going to be tough to counter.
We can easily take a city or two, especially when you consider the results of my scouting expedition:
The problem is holding them. We could always pull out the "phony peace" gambit, conquering a handful of cities and then taking 10 turns to heal up and reinforce. We could then redeclare.
Then again, we could conquer a city, spread Buddhism to it, then pull out and win the game, but that's an awfully cheesy way to do it. This game seems set up for an Apostolic victory, but I would rather earn it honorably.
Anyway, here's a look at the globe:
Victory Conditions:
Population is easy. The trick to Domination here is that accursed Land Area requirement.
And the always-fun Diplomacy screen:
So does the plan seem sound? Rampage through Mexico, then call a peace once the Stack shows up? Will anyone be too terribly disappointed if we get elected Pope for life? Any other thoughts?
We started with fairly somber news from Europe:
Wow, Freddy's pretty quick on the old Wonder-draw there. Must've had a Great Engineer or something.
In addition, that Great Merchant is bothersome. We have a Prophet hanging out in Tokyo, and another Great Merchant on his way to Chile. I was hoping for a Scientist or an Artist to spawn a Golden Age (we're up to three GP needed) for a massive State Property-Emancipation-Universal Suffrage-maybe Free Speech revolution.
With a great Merchant, though, we simply finished our trade mission:
As Communism finished, Elizabeth came by with a decent offer:
We also snagged Corporation from Mansa for the secret of Communism. Why did our income go down with that tech? I understand that it obsoletes the Great Lighthouse, but it adds a trade route to EVERY city. So shouldn't it be a net gain?
Without the Golden Age, we had to be much less grandiose in our civics changes:
That ended up reducing our deficit by 60 or so gold per turn, not to mention the food and production bonuses, so it was worth it.
We set our scientists to figure out the secrets of the Assembly Line. If we're gonna war, we're gonna war right.
In 1580, Elizabeth asked us to stop trading with the Aztecs, which I did without much fuss (despite the 12 gold per turn they were providing). They're heathens, anyway.
In 1600, Louis came shuffling to Tokyo on his knees:
He was at war with Caesar, but that didn't concern me too much. Rome is backwards anyway, and he'd take a while to trundle a stack all the way across Eurasia.
And besides, I had acquired a handy western shield:
The dominoes are starting to fall. The best part of having Cyrus as a vassal is that it pulls his culture out of my Indian possessions.
The Roman war turned out to be even less of a problem than I'd anticipated. After all, I'ma da pope:
What? Pass on the chances for conquest and for glory? Yeah, yeah. I don't feel like sending my troops off half a world away to take possessions that'll just be bombarded by neighboring culture and able to work two tiles apiece.
Besides, most of our army was taking to the seas:
So I think that we're ready to make a strike against the Americas. I figure the plan is to take a city or two and upgrade the force to Infantry and Cannon while the Galleons scoot back to pick up reinforcements. Then we can hopefully vassalize Monty, spreading the faith, and take our rightful place as God-King.
There's only one problem. We're not the biggest dog in the fight:
Now, admittedly, that's all obsolete units (Monty is squarely in the Maces and Crossbows phase), but that's a TON of obsolete units. We're probably looking at an assult of 20-30 siege weapons followed by a like number of traditional forces once he gets his stack rolling. That's going to be tough to counter.
We can easily take a city or two, especially when you consider the results of my scouting expedition:
The problem is holding them. We could always pull out the "phony peace" gambit, conquering a handful of cities and then taking 10 turns to heal up and reinforce. We could then redeclare.
Then again, we could conquer a city, spread Buddhism to it, then pull out and win the game, but that's an awfully cheesy way to do it. This game seems set up for an Apostolic victory, but I would rather earn it honorably.
Anyway, here's a look at the globe:
Victory Conditions:
Population is easy. The trick to Domination here is that accursed Land Area requirement.
And the always-fun Diplomacy screen:
So does the plan seem sound? Rampage through Mexico, then call a peace once the Stack shows up? Will anyone be too terribly disappointed if we get elected Pope for life? Any other thoughts?
r_rolo1
King of myself
What is the actual chances of Bribing Freddy to war Monty? They should be slim, but it would draw the 141451546 units from monty to the north.
Other option is to call a war on the heaten...... Monty has no budhist city
On actual military advising: I would not try to hold cities vs monty. Let him retake them and pound his SoD in a defendless city with CR troops.
Other option is to call a war on the heaten...... Monty has no budhist city
On actual military advising: I would not try to hold cities vs monty. Let him retake them and pound his SoD in a defendless city with CR troops.
So split the fleet, you say? An interesting idea. The two-pronged attack seemed to work well against Asoka (though I think he was just that pathetic).
Then again, that city in the Pacific Northwest is the most isolated, given the position of the Rocky Mountains (did you know you have to dip into Mexico in order to drive from Boston to Portland?). Maybe we could make some noise in Washington State, cut the roads, and allow Monty to send his army trundling up there through the hills and such. Then we could strike the Mexican heartland.
Or, as Civ4Legs said, we could go for the jackpot in Madrid. That would put a crimp in any plans for religious domination, though. It's much easier to win elections against Isabella than it would be against, say, Frederick or Catherine.
On the contrary, Rolo, I think that getting friends in this crusade should be quite easy. Monty's the only Hindu on a map full of Buddhists, and he's a fanatic. So pretty much everyone is his worst enemy, and vice versa. In fact, we could probably just hang out for a few turns and get asked into someone else's war.
Trade routes net more if they're intercontinental. I'm not 100% sure how it works but coastal citis usually have intercontinental routes. Those cities losing trade routes is bound to slow you down.Neal said:
Well you can always capture more inland cities to get more from corporations
BTW I don't think monty will be a big problem. Just unload all units into a uphill city and wait until the first wave of suicide units strike, while your galleons go back and brin gmore units. Taking city after city thereafter should be piece of a cake.
