EVP II: The Creative Chinese

Ahh... cultural victory. 50% of people saying it is so easy it reduces the difficulty by a whole level... the rest saying it is so hard that they have never pulled it off. Or anywhere near, for that matter.

I am the latter... of course, if you have been following the EVP series, thats nothing special. I have only pulled of domination once... in EVP I. And this time, I will be pulling off (hopefully) my first cultural victory!! Yippee!!

The EVP series (Every Victory Possible) is for all players who want to learn how to win in every victory condition. Tricks, tips, and examples are provided. And although we will choose a civ who is better than average at the victory condition, we won't choose the best, or most obvious.

Also, each game has 2 special 'victory conditions', to make the game more difficult, while improving skills.

So, here we go (Note: The partial and total victory conditions are different, as the original one was insanely basic...):

Victory condition: Cultural (all other victory conditions checked for the AI)
Partial Victory condition: All cities must have 80% cultural defences.
Total Victory condition: All cities must have 80% cultural defences, and must not capture a city from a non-barbarian city.

Civ: China
- UU: Chu-kon-nu. 6 strength, replaces Crossbowman, 1 extra first strike, as well as collateral damage.
- UB: Pavilion. Replaces Theatre, but also provides +50% culture.

Leader: Qin Shi Hung (Ind/Pro)

Map: Temperate, Terra, Huge map (12 civs), Epic speed, Noble difficulty.

From the outset, I think I will aim for just Partial Victory... as Total victory is too restrictive...

In addition, after each update, there will now be a report from the five advisors about the state of my empire. The advisors are the Scientific, Military, Economic, Foriegn, and finally, and most importantly, CULTURAL advisor.





4000 BC: Our great leader, and the starting location. Lots of hills, its gonna be a POWERFUL production city in the future.

3775 BC: Meet the Ethiopans (Thier city is to the West of mine, but unfortunatly, to the north of thier capital is the 'Ethiopian Desert', the largest known continuous desert, which will force them south, and to the East... to me)



3775 BC: Pop a hut, and grab 'The Wheel'. Either the AI was TERRIBLE at finding huts, or there were TONS of huts, as I must have popped at least 10 huts... grabbing 2 techs, 2 exp bonuses, 2 scouts, a warrior, 2 maps, and TONS and TONS of gold.

3650 BC: Meet the Egyptians (Hattie). Thier capital is to the east of me, but the surrounding terrain is unknown. (Its assumed there is coast, which means he will move towards me as well. REXing is in order...)

3425 BC: Meet the Holy Romans. These guys are to the Nor-West-West of me, beyond the Ethiopians.


3275 BC: Pop a hut, grab pottery.

3250 BC: Find out that the Egyptians have 2 gold sources, one in thier BFC, the other just outside it.

3225 BC: Meet the Incans. These guys are Nor-Nor-west, about as far away as the Holy Romans. But, yet again, they have coast to the north, and desert to the west, directing them, either at me, or east, towards India.

3175 BC: Meet the Indians (Asoka). They are almost as far north as Inca, but are likely to travel south, towards Egypt. They are north-east of my capital, about as far as the Incans.

3100 BC: Meet the Germans (Bismark). Thier capital is unknown, but assumed to lie either to the west of the Holy Romans, or between India and Inca, the first one being more likely.

2900 BC: Meet the Russians (Stalin). These guys are further north than any other civ... if it wasn't for the magical 'warming' of the palace, they would be in ice.

2800 BC: The Germans get the Herbal Medicine event... lucky sods. I LOVE that event.

2650 BC: Meet the Koreans. These guys are to the east of the Indians. Unfortunatly, my scout died before finding an assumed penensula south of Korea, which could potentially have a couple of civs in it...



2575 BC: Meet the Russian capital, further north than I expected. Yes, that is plains, next to snow and tundra. Poor guys... they don't stand a chance.

2350 BC: Meet the Arabians (Saladin). The capital is unknown, but they are the Hindu Holy City guys... so I open borders ASAP to grab a religion.

2200 BC: Meet the last guy I meet in this turn-set. Justinian of the Byzantines. Yet again, I don't know where his capital is, but it is PROBABLY to the east of me. I am also missing someone...

1775 BC: Grab an axeman, to defend my borders from the barbs. Who are getting very annoying. My Rexing is leaving me very worker-less, and military-less.



1600 BC: First trade: Fishing and Hunting for Meditation. What a deal!! But this means the Germans have Alphabet!!



1550 BC: Second trade, the very next turn: Archery for Priesthood.





1325 BC: Whip the Oracle, and get Alphabet. This gives some VERY nice information, I lead the world in research.



1300 BC: Accidentally sign open borders with Hattie... but one of the few civs with a trade route, its good. However, I normally only sign open borders with people with holy cities, for religions.

925 BC: Two archers move to my wonder production city (Nanjing). Although it has no metals, it has LOTS of mines and river-side plains... which means I will get a nice supply of resources from them.

850 BC: Trade Iron Working for Writing and Sailing with the Holy Romans.

825 BC: Trade Masonry for Sailing, just to get a trade route with the Indians, in order to get some extra resources... as I have several cows, and several rice. but it is in vain...

410 BC: After desperately attempting to get the mids for Herieditory Rule, I fail, as the Koreans get it. It was rather unlikely anyway... but at least I didn't waste any forests for it, as well as 313 gold, which is very important for REXing...

380 AD: The Indians grab Confusism, and the next turn they convert (as well as a Great Scientist, and adopting Caste System)

This has some pretty interesting effects. For one, there are 4 religions being played around.

Hinduism: India
Buddism: Holy Rome
Judaism: Ethiopia / Inca
Confusism: Arabia / Russia


Scientific: We have recently lost alot of technological advantage, partially due to the reduction in science to just 40%, to break even. However, we are regaining lost ground, with the loss of the Pyrimids, and the extra gold that has given us. In this game science is VERY important... as we will need all the tech we can get. (C+)

Military: Our milatery is dead in the middle of the civs... Russia is significantly stronger than us, but we are far away enough not to be seriously concerned. Ethopia is significantly weaker than us, but a war now would stretch our already weak economy. (C-)

Economic: Our ecomony is the pits now... we have 14 beakers a turn, at -4 GPT. We need more cottages, but with the worker force we have, that won't happen for some time, as we still have 2 cities with no improvements (but that will change very soon). Capturing the barbarian GPP city would really weaken our city, but hopefully the extra great people (and especially great artists) will stop this slip of resources. (D-)

Foriegn: We are cautious vs. all civs, but partially this is because of the lack of religions making it hard to pick good allies. As it is so early, it is hard to pick a side. And in 12 player civs, blocs rarely occur.

But I am siding with Germany (good tech trader... exactly who I need), Ethiopia (Powerful person in GNP) and probably Egypt... (C+)

Cultural: The Oracle was a nice pick of wonder... being the second highest cultural producer wonder, after stonehedge, and after Astronomy, its MUCH better than Stonehedge. The loss of the mids was sad, but not un-workable. As long as we get Drama and Music quickly, and then going for Theocracy (a tech I normally delay significantly) for the Sistene Chapel, Cathedrals (and hopefully, Christianity, so we can get an additional cathedral). (B+)

The lay of the land: Its SURPRISINGLY dry... so much plains / desert abounds... I do good in this, but prefer big cities, with lots of grassland. There are tons of food resources, which is good, but the main grassland is being claimed by Egypt faster than I can expand. I will be trying to grab 1 more food place in the North-West before Ethiopia (hopefully), and finally capturing that city. Here is the map (its amazing what 2 scouts and 2 warriors can do



The great River, is a river that, at assorted times, has its sources go through Indian, Egyptian, Chinese, Ethiopian, and Incan lands, and provides the main source of irragation for China (as well as Northern Egypt and North-Eastern Ethiopia). Terra Southena is a possible continent (or at least large island) to the south of the main continent. The Phillipinos is a small island chain. And the two deserts are HUGE... even the Great Desert, which is smaller than the Ethiopian Desert, is as large as the cultural influence of my most cultural city (my capital). The Ethiopian desert is 2-3 times that size :O

My 'filler' city, listed in the game (which I have edited so you can play along) will actually become a small, high production, early city, after I grab some cottages in my southern (Commerce) cities.

Its been a tough game. I have needed to REX as fast as I possibly can, and that is REALLY killing my power and tech rate. However, since half my income is coming from trades ATM, its OK, and manageable.

I haven't scouted MUCH more (more on that later). Alas, Terra Southena is NOT a continent, but in fact, a REALLY small island!!


330 BC: I am the second largest civ in the world (behind the Incans). Thats a good sign, its a sign my REXing is better than the AI (which is rare!!)


290 BC: Noes!! The Ethiopians are really strong now, with a Great Prophet, they can get the Jewish Shrine, and since Judaism is the most expanded religion on this world, its gonna make a HUGE commerce boost for the Ethiopians. Expect these guys to be the leaders of the world...

260 BC: Give Priesthood to the Incans. Its a cheap, worthless tech, as I have the Oracle. Then trade Wheat for Cow. Its a good deal... with granaries its +2 health for +1 health!!


245 BC: Bismark converts to Confusism, the temple of Solomon is built (It took a while!!), and finally, a hurricane hits, taking out my lighthouse. It hasn't been my decade...



170 BC: Buddism spreads to my lands. I opt NOT to convert... awaiting a second choice of religion.
I also trade Polytheism for Mathematics... I wonder if you can guess why. Its a REALLY bad trade... why would I do it?? All will be revealed...


155 BC: Trade Mathematics (and my newly aquired Polytheism) for Monarchy. Yes!! Adopt Herieditory Rule, and my happyness problems are history.


50 BC: Get Judism, and convert. This is because I have recently captured the Barbarian city, and thus, there is no need to continue to close borders with the Ethiopians.

115 AD: Eygpt also converts to a religion: Judaism. The additional happyness, allows me to politely ask for a source of gold, and the Egyptians are always happy to help. Sweet!!

160 AD: Hinduism (the third religion to spread into my lands) spreads, via an Arabian Missionary, into Guangzhou (My gold city). This is good, as the extra cathedral / religious buildings are very nice. This is also bad, as Arabia then proceeds to ask every second turn for me to convert to Hinduism, meaning we are soon very bad enemies.

190 AD, and 250 AD: Stalin makes two demands... who is he to demand anything!? His empire is in the ice and tundra, he is the weakest civ, using the most insignificant religion, and miles away from me. But he is REALLY mad ATM... not as mad as he is against Hattie, but still annoyed / furious.


250 AD: Christianity is founded (in Ethiopia -.-). I never see a Christian, ever, so I assume he isn't spreading it.



265 AD: Grab Calander. This is the size of the world.
Yes. That is all. Insane, isn't it? From what I can gather, either 90% of the world is ocean, or there is a large continent directly to the south of me. I send a galley to the south ASAP to find more information... but it runs into a small difficulty.

280 AD: Wang Kon converts to Judaism, Stalin goes from Hindu to Buddist, and Asoka adopts Organised Religion (a civic I am avoiding due to the low gain, and the high upkeep)


400 AD: Rice for 1 GPT... as no-one else wants Rice, this is a good deal for me.


430 AD: Monotheism + 200 Gold for Calander. I am desperate for gold, so I accept. That turn, I also trade Currency for Calander and 85 gold, so I can trade with other people for gold (and the extra trade route is also nice). Finally, trade my only suger for 3 GPT with the Ethiopians, as I will get a second source in 3 turns.

460 AD: Construction + 130 Gold for Monotheism and Monarchy (with Wang Kon). He is weak, so I don't mind the poor trade.


655: Build the Mausoleum. Extra 50% golden age length, as well as 10 culture (doubling by 1655) is GREAT!


685: A huge expanse of coast, all in fog of war, and with 3.17 = MASSIVE barbarian warship problems. I need triremes ASAP. In the meantime, I move north, to my two guarding galleys. Since 2 barb galleys cannot take out 3 regular galleys on coast, I will be safe.


730: A GE wonder, which adds health, and increases pop by 1. Nice. Love it.

745: Trade Sugar for 4 GPT, and cancel the previous sugar deal.

760: Capture Scythian. Its a nice barb city, with the potential to become a very nice commerce city, with moderate production.


775: The indian borders popped... I think they used a Great Artist...
Anyway, I now am at risk of losing it due to culture, so I whip a Jewish missionary (for +1 culture), chop an obelisk and a monostary, and very soon, the crisis is avoided, and the chance of revolt slips to none.


850: Remember that scout ship that encountered... resistance?? This is the battle for that. The barbs kill *2* of my ships. But both are now so weak, they can't kill my other ship. Thankfully.


860: DANG!! It killed my other ship. And razed my only supply of clams. I whip another galley for vengance. I need metal casting, but unfortunatly, I am too pressed for science ATM...


870: Kill that galley, with 86% odds. What an unlucky sequence of events. Oh well. That turn, trade Metal casting for Currency and Aethetics with Wang Kon.

920: Sythian chance of revolt goes down from 2.56% to 1.82%.

930: Trade Fuedilism and 90 gold, for Aethetics, Currency, AND metal casting, with the Incans. I need Fuedalism, as my power rating is through the floor >.<

950: With 80/20 odds, I get a Great Prophet (80: Prophet. 20: Artist). The Great Prophet gives me 7.5 GPT in my gold city.

960: Wierd things happen in espionage. Firstly, the secrets of Literature were stolen by enemy infultrators. Then, my espionage ratio massively went up vs. Ethiopia. Finally, Ethiopia no longer needed Literature. Our security advisors are still trying to find out who stole Literature. Well... they were before I KILLED them for being complete and utter BUFFOONS! (Seriously, why doesn't the AI recognise that X stole the tech, because they are suddenly missing 2000 espionage poitns?? -.-)

1000: Trade sugar for 6 GPT with Holy Rome. Then cancel the Sugar for 4 GPT with the Inca. Finally, trade wine for Spices with India.







Scientific: Our tech situation is good. Not as good as Ethiopia, but that is to be expected. Running at 60% sci for so long is remarkable, partially because of our nice gold trades (A-)

Military: Our milatery is woefully inadequate. We are almost as weak as INDIA. Our diplomatic situation allows us some lee-way, but we are nearly half as weak as Ethiopia, and over half as weak as Inca. We are lucky we are friendly with them. Longbows should do the trick, however. Them, and catapults. (E+)

Economic: Our economy is dependant on other civs... if we stop trading, we will die. Its unstable, but growing. (C-)

Foriegn: We picked the right religion, and are friends with our neighbours (and as we are playing a peaceful game, that is a GOOD thing). Increasing relations with India will be a nice idea, but not neccessery. (B)

Cultural: The Sistene Chapel is a risky move. It is highly valued by the many creative civs in this game. In addition, the required tech trades of its secondary pre-req (Aesthetics) has reduced our lead. Oh, and remember, we missed out on the Great Artist from Music (Asoka got it, remember?), so we need to outproduce Asoka. But aside from that, we are really strong culturally

Edit: How long have we been building a MARKET instead of the Sisten Chapel?? I just realised that, for some reason, we are!! (B+)

The lay of the land: Not much more scouting. 3 Triremes would do it, but also that would take a long time. The continent we are on is surprisingly small (or the map is insanely big... I don't know which), but I am certain that either there are some insane islands to the south, or a nice continent (which we PROBABLY won't colonise... we will go to the new world, to get some rare resources).

Comments? Suggestions? I know, we are weak, but we are also building military units in *3* cities, and for a very long time too!!

Well played. You're up against a lot of culturers though .. Hatty, Zara, Huayna, Asoka, Bismarck .. all these people build a lot of wonders.

What Mod are you running that your interface looks so... helpful? I want it ^__^

Chairo Hisui said:

What Mod are you running that your interface looks so... helpful? I want it ^__^

Click to expand...

That'd be the BUG mod, available here.

1000: Realise that I am building a Market, instead of the Sistene Chapel. Costs me 5 turns.


1010: Library Progress is destroyed, in my barbarian village. The AI in this game REALLY likes espionage. Normally 10% is PLENTY to stop the attacks... but in this game, even when focused against 3 civs, I still BARELY exceed thier espionage limits!! This is just insane...


1020: The first war. Hattie, and Hauyna both declare war... against the weakest civ: Russia. In fact, this soon becomes a INSANE war...
I also trade Compass for Literature, and Code of Laws, with Korea. Then... Korea gets in the war (I interrupted the war siren with my trade)

1030: The very next turn, Hauyna comes to me, and asks ME to declare war on Russia. So there you have it... 4 strong civs dogpiling on the weakest one. I don't like the way this game is turning out... That turn, Inca gets the Statue of Zues, making the war against Stalin even more of an annihalation!!

1050: And if that isn't enough. 2 turns LATER, GERMANY declares war... against Russia. Poor tundra guys. However, the AI SUCKS at war... they only capture 1 Russian city in this war.


1060: My scientific advisor comes at me with this report... and then flees the room. I am 6th out of 11 civs... thats below average. And shocking... I have NEVER been so weak (I blame the global economy. And the fact that I have, for some reason, a major commerce problem, despite having so many cottages)
Adopt Caste System... I also have a food problem, so slavery isn't much good to me. Also, I have a production problem, so I need my workshops to be useful (How can I have *3* different, mutually exclusive, problems??)



1080: This is the power graph. Note: Despite having 3 cities CONSTANTLY build longbows and chu-ko-nu, I haven't BUDGED in the power graph. This is INSANE, an OUTRAGE!! I am now weaker than EVERYONE, and I can't do anything about it...
I also trade Theology and 80 gold for Fuedalism.

1100: Trade 80 gold for Literature. Just to appease him. And the fact that Literature is TOTALLY useless.

1120: The Axemen barbarian uprising. Oh no. I am so scared. Hold me. [/sarcasm]
Seriously, though... this is the latest I have ever seen a barb uprising!

1130: DRAMA!! And thus, Pavilions. Sweet.

1150: The Ethiopians grab thier third holy city... Taoism. And guess what? With thier Steles, they soon grab a shrine for THAT religion too!!

1200: Trade Drama and Music for Philosophy and 130 gold to Ethiopia. Its not like I am going for any wonders or anything... And now I try to beat everyone to Liberilism!!
Then trade Machinary for music and 310 gold. I need my Chu-ko-nu!!

1210: Hattie builds the AP, and Judaism is united!! I vote for Zara for the additional diplo benifits.

1260: I do a dubious move (which I thought was awesome). I grab a world map from Zara, and trade it with EVERYONE for 100-120 gold each. I grab 1200 gold in that one turn alone. But at the price of everyone seeing my cities. Oh well...

1265: The Indians build a wonder... OH NO!!
Wait... its the Hagia Sophia. Thats cool. They got the dud wonder.


1285: A wonder is built... and it is the Sistene Chapel... with 8 turns left. DANG!!
Anyway, luckily I get alot of gold, but the sad part is that Hauyna used the cheapest trick ever... the Great Engineer building it in 1 turn. Sad.

1310: Civil service and 70 gold, for Drama and Music. Change to Beurocracy and Theocracy, to maintain those CG III archers out the box.

1330: Our miners find silver next to our main commerce city. SWEET!!

1350: Hattie, Bismark, and Zara declare war on Charlemagne. Zara was first.

1365: Zara says to cancel deals with the Charlemagne. I do. Then Hattie says to declare war on him. I say... no. I have too much on my hands, and I'm not trying to impress the ladies. Not yet anyway ^.^
Without my suger for 6 GPT deal, I turn to the Incans, who accept my Sugar for 8 GPT deal. Nice!

1370: The two green civs (Salidan and Zara) are already colonising the Phillipinos, with Salidan taking hold of Terra Southena.

1375: The AP stops the war between the brothers of the faith, in this case, Bismark and Hattie (TAKE THAT Hattie... burn!!)

1405: Slipped to 6th in the 'largest civ' stakes. Not that there are any better places to settle. And I need the gold to pay for my military!


1415: After losing the Sistene Chapel to Hauyna, I then lose the University of Sankore to India... losing my right to a half-decent tech rate at 0% science. Dang.

1420: The Taoist Shrine is built... in Ethiopian lands.

1430: I am on a continent full of war-mad barbarians. I am scared, especially when I can't even keep up with INDIAs strength!!
Anyway, Bismark declares war on Zara, and then Hattie and Wang Kon declare war on Charlemagne. Again.

1435: I thought that when Zara was researching Education, he was going for liberilism. I thought wrong, as now he dives off into researching Economics, for the free great Merchant. Leaving me free to research Liberalism in peace.

1440: As per usual, Salidan declares on another civ, this time Wang Kon.

1460: Grab a Great Artist... and settle him. IN THE WRONG CITY. I know know that a GP Farm is NOT the best place to get a cultural win... as you need production in order to build the multiplier buildings (Cathedrals, Hermatige etc.) I kick myself later on.

1465: Asoka researches Education... and procedes to Liberilism. He will take 11 turns. I will take 10 turns (and I am already half-way through!?). Its tight, and all it takes is 1 university, or one poor event, and I am out of the Liberilism race, meaning no Taj Mahal, no golden age, no tech lead, and no chance of victory... (Or maybe a little chance... lets see)
In this turn, I find out that Cathedrals require *4* temples, not 3. This means my 9 cities can only (just) support 2 cathedrals... which is bad. Very bad. This limits me to just 4 cathedrals... and a hermatige.


1510: YES!! Liberilism, and with 1 turn to spare. Phew!! I grab Nationalism with it, for the Taj Mahal, and the Golden Age.

1510: Optics and 100 gold for paper (Saladin)
Guilds and Engineering for Education and 320 gold (Hattie)
Gunpowder for Liberilism and 170 Gold (Wang Kon)

All in all, a massive 6 techs in 1 turn. I have outdone myself!

1545: Adopt Free Speech. That is all. I started off by adopting Free Speech, Free Religion, and Slavery. But that didn't work out... especially since that caused me to be cautious with almost every civ (instead of pleased and Friendly), as well as reducing production for the Taj Mahal, without any gain for the whip.

1550: If you thought the 1120 barbarian uprising was insane... check this out: WEAKER units, POST gun-powder:


1570: Churning out only 60 hammers a turn, my Taj Mahal is still 12 turns from completion...


1630: BUILD THE TAJ MAHAL!! 15 turn golden age FTW!! And, whats more, if that wasn't good enough for you, I trade Constitution for Printing Press and 10 gold, allowing me to (finally) run Reperesentation. And thats not all, since I am in a golden age, I can adopt a new civic without that annoying anarchy!

1655: Only the 5th most advanced civ!? WTH!? Thats insane! I got liberilism, and made some awesome trades... and this report gives me 5th!? Dang. I shouldn't have gone for all those wonders.

1655: Salidin declares war on Hattie. She is already struggling with Holy Rome... thats nasty...

1660: The Incans are the best sailors, as they have proven the cylindricalness of the world!

Dang... I don't like the looks on thier faces...

Scientific: 5th!? 5th!? At least we are better than 6th... but that was right after we PEAKED in science... that shows us STRONGER than we actually are. (D+)

Military: Our military situation hasn't improved 1 iota. Now, not only are we weaker than India, but even some hostile civs are over double our strength. What saves us is our DP with Zara, but even that is shaky, as as soon as he gets annoyed with someone, we are going to be alone again... (E)

Economic: Massive improvements! We should spend more gold on our military, however. But we are finally self-sufficent. (B+)

Foriegn: We are friendly with all the top 6 civs (except India, who is pleased). We are the third largest contender for the AP, and are continuing to leverage our skills at foriegn affairs. Keep it up. But be warned... with our current science situation, it might pay to force some civs OUT of emancipation, at least until we get democracy ourselves. (A)

Cultural: We missed out on 2 wonders, both CRITICAL to our plans, and settled for a mediocre +10 culture one. In addition, we can only support +150% culture in most of our cities (but +250% in the Hermatage city), which is going to make winning VERY difficult, and very long. And also, if that wasn't bad enough, we have 1 city above 80% culture. We are weaker culturally than what we would be if we DIDN'T aim for a cultural victory!! (C+)

The lay of the land:



The new maps don't prove anything (except that a huge map has 11, not 12, civs). The Phillopinos is a GIANT island chain, covering 15% of the map. However, in the deep south, there is a island, the barbarian island. Its tundra, so I won't touch it.

Also, there is a new world. Which I don't want to touch... too expensive. And takes too many hammers.

And there is an Egyptian island as well... but nothing special there. No rare resources...

Anyway... after my last cathedrals are built (all the ones in the build queue, plus the hermatige, plus one more in the hermatige city. I will leave the capital out for a while), I will rush at 100% culture, hopefully breaking even (and if not, I will sell SOMETHING to make some cash...). The entire process should take around 50 turns. Hopefully. Otherwise, I am screwed.

Anyway... do I stand a chance? And what did I do wrong? I am nearly at the bottom of the food chain here!! Even a cultural win looks unlikely... I am likely to be routed by cuirassers (as I won't have rifles, most likely...)

Its been a SHOCKING game so far... it seems as if, just as if the AI WANTS me to win, its a ridiculously peaceful game!! (Albiet ones with GIANT armies walking around the place)

1690: Trade clam for MORE GPT, with Russia... my economy is SO based on other peoples GPT its just not funny...

1708: Trade Liberilism, for 420 gold, Horseback Riding, and Banking. Banking for Merchantilism, and Horseback Riding to shut the AI up about trading X tech for Horseback riding. But, I have a sneaky suspicion that is why the barb uprisings appeared so late

1710: I did this into my friend... so I had to describe this. Anyway, up comes the vote to declare war on the infidels (in this case, the Arabs). I talk about the Apostolic palace, and describe it to him. Just before I click "OK" he says "So... every civ just declared war on the Arabs". And I said. "No, it works like this... Wait a second...", and thus:




1716: The war that started this, Salidin vs. Hattie, ends.

1732: Trade Chemistry (+1 production for workshops is VERY nice...), for Printing Press and 210 gold. I think I can risk the Statue of Liberty... (Wang Kon)

1734: Trade Astronomy for Replaceable Parts. I want a half-decent navy, as my food resources need to be protected. Also, later on (maybe) I might build Privateers, and annoy the new world... as Frigates don't normally patrol over there

1736: Bismark makes peace with Hattie...

1740: ANOTHER source of silver is found near my commerce city, and I immeditaly trade it for 13 GPT.

1742: Wang Kon vassalises (voluntarily) to Justinian. Which is surprising, as I didn't know they were friends!!

1744: I am on the tail end of an unusual event... Hattie makes an outlandish wedding ceremony for two couples being married in the Jewish tradition... I have normally been on the other end (IE. Footing the bill )


1752: The start of the peaceful era. With Zara getting Military Tradition, and Hattie agreeing to a trade with it, I sign defencive pacts with BOTH Zara and Hattie. Oh, and surprisingly, the holy war is over, and the world is at peace!

1756: +1 gold in my theatre, due to an event (it wasn't my cultural city, so I decided against adding culture there )



1758: I think it is time to have some screenies again... like this one. 1 free specilist in each city. Depending on the city, that is either +3 gold, +3 science, +6 science, or +4 culture, +3 science. In each city. Before multipliers. Oh, and don't forget the fact that that increases GPP points too!!
I then switch my civics, to take advantage of this...

1760: Asoka trades Sci Meth, a world map, and 70 gold for Rifling. A bad deal, but I need to get to Mass media (or at least to Radio, and build the Eiffel Tower first) ASAP... and with my tech rate ATM, that is unlikely...)
I then trade Military Tradition, 60 gold, and a world map, for Rifling with Wang Kon. I then keep Rifling to trade with Zara for physics, when he researches it in 4 turns. This was probably a bad move... I should have waited for everyone ELSE to get defencive pacts, while I got Military Tradition (for the Grenadiers) instead. Anyway, Zara got Rifling (probably from India or Korea ), and thus I missed out on that trade. I will now trade techs only I have, ALL AT ONCE, or not at all. Anyway, I will just grab Railroad, and spam Machine Guns, for the absolute god-units they are now
Finally, to end the turn, I get 114 gold for building the Statue of Liberty in another city, before switching, as it was faster in the city I built it in.

1762: Defencive Pact with Inca. Also, in that turn, Hattie signs a DP with Zara, making a love triangle (of defencive pacts >.> <.<)

1772: Trade silver for 13 GPT with Asoka, Sugar for 7 GPT with Wang Kon, and slap my culture slider to 70% (I lose 70 GPT at 100%). The next turn, I build security beuraus in all cities, and then set my espionage counter down to 0%, and my culture further up, to 80%.

1782: I am the 8th most powerful civ in the game. Which is no surprise...
Also, Wang Kon breaks free of Justinian, and I cease the day, by signing a FOURTH DP with Wang Kon. Now I just need Asoka to join...

1784: Cancel the deal of sugar for 14 GPT with Inca, and go and re-make a deal, with sugar for 16 GPT!!
Then make another deal, sheep for some surplus rice, with Bismark!

1786: +1 food for my grocer in my coastal production / gold city.

1788: End of the line...


Scientific: Our science is nose-diving. We aren't winning a space race victory here, however, and thankfully beurocracy is allowing us tech parity with Korea (-.-). But we are soon going to become backwards, poor, happy countries (like the country in the Gross National Happyness mod...) (C-)

Military: We have improved our military problem by spamming DPs, and rifling. That said, we are still MILES behind decent power levels... 0.6 power vs. most civs, except the two vassals, Germany and Russia. (D)

Economic: The fact we can almost break even at 20% tax just shows how far we have come. As long as everyone doesn't declare war on us / Cancel deals with us, we should be fine. (A-)

Foriegn: The rise of Byzantium is making problems, as they are cautious with us. However, the Holy War was awesome, we now have +3 'our mutual military struggle brings us closer together) modifiers with every civ except the Arabs. Also, with so many DPs we are going to be VERY popular with every civ, except Byzantium (and possibly India, but unlikely) (A)

Cultural: I never knew cultural victory took SO FREAKING LONG!! Anyway, the countdown has started, and it says


325 turns to go. A great Artist (or, alternatively, a Great Prophet induced golden age) should do the trick!! That, and the fact that, after the grocer (for health reasons), we will be building culture in that city, which will allow the other city to build rifles. But 80% culture is nice. But is it enough to win the game?? (A++)

1790: Trade Steel for Democracy, and 725 gold (I need railroad, and cannons ASAP )
Then uptrade my luxury goods to pay for MORE GPT... with almost all the civs.

1792: Salidin breaks free from Charlemagne, and becomes a free state again.

1812: Pop a great Prophet, at ~20% odds. Start a golden age... and switch building to culture for ALL my cultural cities during the golden age.
Also, Hauyna Capac declares war on Asoka.

1816: Bismark doesn't like this declaration of war, and declares war back on Hauyna Capac. He doesn't like these odds. In addition, by now, I am running 90% culture.

1820: The very next turn, Hattie (The AP residant) decides to stop the war against Hauyna Capac... and succeeds!! And interesting note here, is that Hauyna voted to END the war, obviously he had second thoughts when he realised that Germany was angry with him!!

1822: The 10 year war ends, and I re-sign my DP with the Incans.

1824: I have a great Artist (who I think I settle... its the last artist I settle, I use the rest to culture bomb my culturally backwards cities). Also, Bismark becomes a vassal... of ASOKA!! This is the strongest Indian empire I have ever seen!!

1826: An Incan city who's name is too long to pronounce and write, revolts. This is unexpected, as I have NEVER revolted a 60% cultural defence city before...


1828: I realise that I (somehow) have got Sci Meth, and decided to look for oil. Excluding Aluminium, which I haven't researched yet, here is a comprehensive list of ALL non-health, non-happy resources:
* Iron
* Uranium
* Copper
* ... Uuuuhhhh

Well... thats it. I have NO horses, NO Oil (!), No stone or marble, no coal. This means that I can't build any unit stronger than a frigate until... Fission.
I also have no duplicates of any resource!


1832: Thankfully, I found uranium (one source) next to my science city. It was mined ASAP...

1836: Upsize my GPT payments on all my resources again...

1843: Settle Macau to try to culturally sieze the Ethiopian source of Oil that lies just beyond my borders, and culturally flip the Taoist Holy City/Shrine!


1846: This is epic. Cultural pressure on a 60% cultural defence city... from 4 tiles away!! That is the most insane cultural riot I have ever seen!

1849: Remember that giant long Incan city?

It culturally flips. Initially I think "Nah.. I won't get it", but then it hits me... I have 10 cities on the mainland... with this city, and the northern Indian city, I could grab a THIRD CATHEDRAL, allowing a further +50% culture in all culture cities. Definitly worth the maintainance costs.
And then it hits me again... I should move my capital further north! And build the Forbidden Palace near the south, and reduce on maintanance on the two new ('planned') Chinese cities! Its a perfect plan...

1853: With 19 turns to go before Electricity, Asoka completes Broadway. Now I need Mass Media to try and pull of the Eiffel Tower, yet another culturally important wonder. Alternatively, Rock and Roll, and Hollywood are both awesome wonders as well... and both on my tech path!



1858/1859: The AP moves to assign the Indian city of Agra to me... and I vote yes (duh). However, ironically, it has enough votes to pass, but Asoka DEFIES the resolution, in big caps too. These caps pass a rip in spacetime to make 5 of his largest cities (all which have Jewish people in them) very unhappy. But at least he kept his city...


1860: For an entire turn, when the city decides that it will DEFY its ruler, and become Chinese anyway! Finally, I can get 3 cathedrals of each major religion (Its wierd that I run a Jewish Theocracy, but other religions can also be worshipped, and temples built for these gods, so that cathedrals to these false gods can be built in our best, and largest cities )

1861: Toynbee makes a startling discovery... China is the most cultural place on this planet. And it gets more shocking, the two wonder-whores who stole nearly every wonder from me are second and third (but what ACTUALLY surprises me is that Asoka is NOT second... he is third. The Incans are second!)
In addition, I had a double take of this message:
"The Russian people from the city of Smolensk have seen thier homes burned! They are rising up against the wicked Barbarian invaders, forming partisan units to join the resistance as militia fighters"
Yes, the Russians are so weak that the BARBARIANS can destroy thier cities. In all fairness, however, I think that this was on the new world... where Grenadiers roam the great plains like no-where else.

1863: Salidan Capitulates to Charlemange. Again. He isn't doing so well in this game

1865: Culture bomb Beijing... its getting close now!

1872: Grab electricity, and trade Biology, Economics, 20 gold, and a world map with some civ. Then trade Communism, Military Science, a world map, and 110 gold for electricity with Wang Kon. And then trade Steam power, Divine Right (!?), another World Map, and 140 gold from Hattie. Is that enough? No. In 1873, I trade Railroad, for electicity with Zara. And then, just to laugh a bit more, trade Corporation and a world map, for Military Science, with the Incans!!

All in all, from 1 small tech, I got no less than 8 techs, 270 gold, 3 maps, and several major military techs!! Of course, as a side effect, I get WFYABTA from India (for those who don't know, WFYABTA = "We fear you are becoming too advanced". Its a message some civs say when you have traded too many techs recently. Some civs do this quickly (EG. Asoka), and others take ages (EG. Wang Kon). Its one of the most poorly named messages ever, as you only get that message if you are MASSIVELY behind in techs!)

1874: +1 Population in Hangzhou (my science / Uranium city) from its 'large and inspiring culture'. Why didn't it go into my capital, I wonder??

1891: I wonder why Zara won't trade Fission? "We have our reasons"? I wonder what??

Oh... thats right. Nukes. This game better end soon... I will be ****ed if some civs get nuclear weapons!!

1902: This is REALLY annoying.

I couldn't grab Radio, because the indians fear me becoming too advanced. As a result, I miss out on getting 250 culture in all cities. That would (probably) be worth the gold. Instead, I just settle for the default amount of culture (ironically, the amount that city produces in about 4 turns )

1906: Trade Medicine for Radio with Zara. Combustion / World Map / 50 Gold for Radio with Justinian. Artillery/World Map/90 Gold for Radio with Hattie. And finally, Assembly Line/World Map/290 Gold for Radio with Wang Kon. Again, 3 techs, 430 gold, and 3 maps for just 1 tech. I love being friends with the Jews, while Asoka hates every single one of them, except me.

1909: Indian filmakers manage to wrest control of a slice of the hit movies market... wait... they CONTROL the hit movies market...
I am not 100% sure, but I am relatively sure that event checks that the AI doesn't control the world wonder

1911: I am 5th in the world for tech. 5th! I have no idea how I have managed to secure such good trades, but I am keeping up with the pace, even with 80~100% culture rates, and 0% science!

1912: Grab Assembly Line for 325 gold from Hattie.


1914: An Egyptian city revolts (But I plan to Raze this city...), and a pavilion is destroyed. The pavilion is devestating, as each pavilion is giving no less than 9 happyness! As a result, Emancipation problems make the city unhappy, but a replacement pavilion soon solves that problem.

1919: The AP wants us to stop trading with Salidan. Thankfully, although I don't have enough power to veto a vote by saying simply 'no', I also get the support of the Incans, which allow me to keep my 10 GPT from the Arabs (which is also bankrupting them... they have *7* cities on another continent, and only 2 on the same continent as the palace!)

1921: Asoka builds Civilised Jewelers, while Ethiopia builds Mining Inc. I am running Mechantilism, so I am safe from thier corporations.


1926: A Arab city is lost to the Barbarians. In this case, it was a city in the new world, where a Camel Archer and a Rifle was wiped out by a grenadier. The Arabs are too weak to put up much of a fight, the Barbarians are stronger than them!!

1936: Asoka completes the Hollywood. That sucks...


1939: I culture bomb Beijing... and it acheives Legendary Culture!! I am almost there... and still no chance of a war (but Asoka is getting more and more nervous...)

Jan 1940: Wang Kon completes the Apollo Program...

Jan 1941: Asoka builds the UN... but Zara is more popular and get in, despite my best intentions. That turn...

Nanjing gets Legendary Culture!! Just one more to go... and 4 turns to go before that city hits it too!!

July 1942: Try and increase my score... Trade Facism and 120 gold, for Rocketry with Justinian.
That turn, Zara declares war on Charlamagne, and now I only have 2 DPs... war is likely, but so is victory...

July 1943: Research mass media, and...



Mmmm... victory.
And I enjoy the victory movie... but in a typical example of Murphys law, my computer lags like a *****, and I get a series of pictures, rather than a movie. But it is a better movie than the Domination win (but not as good as space race IMO). But it reminds me of a city I saw once, which was so chocka of buildings and wonders, there was no room for the people (and it was large too, size 22 )

Now is the part where I summarise the game, and give advice to all people who want to try to pull off a cultural victory.

First, MY results:















Now to summarise each in order...

It took 9 hours and 3 minutes to pull this off, partially because it ended earlier than all other victories. This is also the final map... very interesting. Note the barbarians down the center of the map... they have put up an insane fight, even taking out a city or two. There are *7* barb cities surviving!! Also note the Arabs (light green, for example on the island in the bottom left). Thats right... 2 core cities, and 7 overseas cities. Poor guys! No wonder they were running at 0% tech (or something low...)

Power rating over the game. We did OK... it was mainly our diplomacy that kept us alive. Ironically, with the exception of Holy Rome vs. Egypt, and everyone including the Barbs vs. the Arabs, there were NO major wars!! Finally, aside from the phoney war with the AP, we were in NO wars AT ALL!!

Power rating over the last 50 turns. Nothing much more, but it clarifies who is stronger than us.

Score over the entire history. You can see the tech trades, they are where we double our score

Demographics. Never have I seen so few #1's!! Unusually, we are the highest in GNP, which is something I wouldn't have ever expected! We are second in population, but only 6th in approval rate (mostly due to emancipation), and we are second to last in life expectancy (that will be because we have nearly no resources that provide ONLY health.

Top 5 cities. India grabs one, but we grab the other 4 slots. Thats surprising, as I expected the Jewish holy city, the Sistene Chapel city, and another Indian city to take an appearance, with only our capital in there. Partially due to our low score...

Which got us Simon Bolivar (who??). A low score, but cultural victorys are normally low, due to low population, low land area, low power, low tech rate, which combines to a low final (and thus modified) score, and as it also comes after Domination / Conquest victories, its rather late, reducing the score further!!

Final diplo status. I never knew there were so many wars... no-one asked me to join! But there is only 1 war in all that mess of lines: Salidin / Charlamange vs. Huayna Capac / Stalin / Zara. There is no contest Also, there are 3 DP's in play, and 3 vassals (for 3 masters)

Current resource deals. I was getting 126 GPT from my other AI people. That allowed me to run at 100% with just 3 cities building wealth!

More resource deals

Current tech situation. I am not TOO far behind. My diplo weaving managed to leverage me into a proud level!

More techs!


There are three sections to this:

Things that surprised me:

• Cultural Pressure and cultural revolts happen quite often!! Expect 2 to 4 free cities... and massively worried neighbouring civs. You will be surprised how fast your borders expand... I grabbed Stone (traded it back to India, who I stole it from... for a small fee ), Dyes (from the Ethiopians, which went immediately to Holy Rome), Copper (again from the Indians), and Coal (from the Egyptians). These captured resources equate to even more GPT for you!!
• While running at 100% culture, you can grab 30 happyness (with a colloseam / Theatre) WITHOUT any luxury resources! Thus, running caste system is a very lucrative option, even when everyone else has Emancipation. Also, if you have EP to spare, and hate a civ, you can always force them into caste system too ( )
• DPs REALLY deter war declarations. This makes Military tradition very important for people who are behind in techs.
• If you have no horses, and REALLY want fun events, run to Future tech without horseback riding, and hope for a barb axes event to occur... just before they get cut down by 1 modern armor
• The Map trading / for gold thing WORKS (where you grab a map, and trade it to everyone)! Just be warned: It gives all the locations of your cities away... Also, if you have no chance for grabbing a wonder, then you can always grab a tech, and give it to every other civ... they value it highly!

Things that I did well

• Diplo. Seriously, I am rapped with myself for my diplo. Its important to keep good relations with your neighbours, especially as they will hate you as soon as you rush for cultural win. The Jewish religion was very popular, but only spread to 30% of the entire world... but at least it put me in good stead with the two superpowers that remained superpowers for the entire game. And when Asoka moved to FR, he was happy with me too!
• Peacefullness. I tried to be neutral in as many wars as possible (but still cancelling deals when it would make me better in the diplo stakes). Not getting drawn into wars helped keep my power rating... suitable.

Things I did poorly

• Cultural Placement. I chose my GP Farm as a potential cultural site... but it didn't even finish building the standard cultural buildings, let alone the advanced ones (Stupas and cathedrals). A potential legendary city needs to have a decent amount of production, 1 mine and 1 workshop doesn't cut it. You need at least 3~4 high production tiles, and only 3 if most other tiles yeild 1 anyway!
• Wonder selection. I should have aimed for the Mids / Hanging Gardens for the Great Engineers, and then use the Incans habit of using those to make MORE wonders (in other cities, of course). Instead, I just grabbed the wonders that pumped out raw culture (Oracle / Taj Mahal), and the Hanging Gardens was a lucky wonder (partially due to the AI's lack of Aqueducts). The SoL was a nice wonder for my SE however...
• My SE. It was a good SE, but it would have been probably better to go with a hard-core CE, with Universal Suffrage / Emancipation / Free Market (or State Property). That would pump out more raw culture, both in the commerce, and in the production variety. However, that would leave me with tons of extra happyness, but that could be used to draft like mad instead, pumping up my power. So my choice of SE was less than optimal, and if I missed out on SoL, it would be a big problem.

Well... that is that. I will keep this as a guide to all the suprising things about how to pull off a cultural victory at noble (and by seeing what I did wrong, and a little bit of Micro, possibly even Prince!!)

The save is an autosave from as close to the end game as possible, if you want to see the cultural movie, or if you want to say where else I have done poorly / well, so that other people can grab tips!

forgive my stupidity but what is SE and CE?

SE = Specilist Economy. Basically, I used my farms, and made artist specilists (thus caste system), in order to get culture.

CE = Cottage Economy. In this idea, I use lots of cottages, which would increase my commerce, which would then be transferred to culture through my culture slider.

As a result, I would net more culture with a CE than a SE (Strictly speaking, I was using a hybrid economy, but rather inefficently)

In addition, when running Universal Suffrage and Emancipation, I would have extra happiness... unfortunatly, I have yet to work out what to do with that... Nationilism is NOT an option, as I would be running Free Speech for the insane culture bonus...

But Universal sufferage would yield an extra hammer on all my towns (which would be quite a few), which would translate to even MORE culture, as long as I would be building culture...

And now I know

Knowledge is Power!