King of the World #4: Mansa Musa
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
r_rolo1
King of myself
You should had settled walata in the Upper Nile .......
In which we learn that we can trust Popes about as far as we can throw them.
Things started off simply enough. A lone Barbarian Spearman wandered in from the desert wastes in search of easy plunder:
I had to whip out a Skirmisher to prevent him from razing the farm, but it wasn't a huge deal. Not like Timbuktu didn't have food to spare. I am curious as to where the Barbarians got their metals to forge those spearheads in West Africa, though...
In 475 A.D., everything went all to hell:
From Pleased to Stack o' Doom in one quick turn. And here I thought Cyrus was a laid-back kind of guy.
Well, crap. Nobody was willing to lend a hand to little old me:
I don't know whether he deceived them all with his lies or they just didn't want to be next on his list.
And here come de judge:
Of course, Kumbi Saleh was maybe a *little* underdefended, but I wasn't expecting an attack from Persia, of all places! And I had a ton and a half of jungle that needed clearing!
Needless to say, I quickly transitioned to a Skirmisher Economy, pumping them out for all my Involuntary Citizen Work Force was worth. This was enough to deter a proper siege of my cities, but didn't keep Cyrus from gleefully razing our towns.
I also went tech shopping with my few remaining friends:
Sadly, nobody was willing to teach me the secrets of Construction, so that became the next tech target.
As Pope Cyrus' armies laid waste to Timbuktu's countryside, the people, holed up and terrified, did the only logical thing they could do:
They held the Olympics!
Sure, sure. 23 gold. Maybe this'll make Cyrus take his foot off my throat.... Apparently not. But it's still a good long-term investment... If there is a long-term.
Once we finished researching Construction, Catherine came by, hat in hand for Monarchy. In sore need of friends, I consented, and made this juicy tech trade:
War Elephants are now officially an option. We also traded our spare Jumbo for Cathy's spare horses, giving us even more wartime options. Not that we'll be able to get them up and running in time...
Finally, in 800 A.D., Cyrus sneeringly allowed me to buy my people's freedom:
... And he went back to Pleased. Two-faced jerk.
Oh, and just for good measure? With the war finally over and the rebuilding effort about to begin, the people whose freedom I had so dearly purchased gave me a big, resounding #$%^ you:
And it looks like Hattie's gonna beat us to that Iron:
So, anyway, here's the current state of the world:
And the sorry state of what was once our thriving metropolis at Timbuktu:
Well, there you have it. I think I've bungled this beyond any hope of repair. I've learned a lot about the drawbacks of starting in Health hell, of the problems inherent to a delayed start without an early "catch-up" war, and the perils of neglecting your military, even when everyone around you is your friend.
I think, at this point, the best move would be to declare this a learning experience and start over, migrating to the Upper Nile, Morocco or Libya and going for Hattie's throat early on. Once we've secured Africa, then we can concentrate on beating back the jungles and building our financial empire.
Of course, there's also something to be said for pressing on. I'll include the save for your perusal, and you all can tell me what you want me to do. I am, as always, at the disposal of the hive mind
Things started off simply enough. A lone Barbarian Spearman wandered in from the desert wastes in search of easy plunder:
I had to whip out a Skirmisher to prevent him from razing the farm, but it wasn't a huge deal. Not like Timbuktu didn't have food to spare. I am curious as to where the Barbarians got their metals to forge those spearheads in West Africa, though...
In 475 A.D., everything went all to hell:
From Pleased to Stack o' Doom in one quick turn. And here I thought Cyrus was a laid-back kind of guy.
Well, crap. Nobody was willing to lend a hand to little old me:
I don't know whether he deceived them all with his lies or they just didn't want to be next on his list.
And here come de judge:
Of course, Kumbi Saleh was maybe a *little* underdefended, but I wasn't expecting an attack from Persia, of all places! And I had a ton and a half of jungle that needed clearing!
Needless to say, I quickly transitioned to a Skirmisher Economy, pumping them out for all my Involuntary Citizen Work Force was worth. This was enough to deter a proper siege of my cities, but didn't keep Cyrus from gleefully razing our towns.
I also went tech shopping with my few remaining friends:
Sadly, nobody was willing to teach me the secrets of Construction, so that became the next tech target.
As Pope Cyrus' armies laid waste to Timbuktu's countryside, the people, holed up and terrified, did the only logical thing they could do:
They held the Olympics!
Sure, sure. 23 gold. Maybe this'll make Cyrus take his foot off my throat.... Apparently not. But it's still a good long-term investment... If there is a long-term.
Once we finished researching Construction, Catherine came by, hat in hand for Monarchy. In sore need of friends, I consented, and made this juicy tech trade:
War Elephants are now officially an option. We also traded our spare Jumbo for Cathy's spare horses, giving us even more wartime options. Not that we'll be able to get them up and running in time...
Finally, in 800 A.D., Cyrus sneeringly allowed me to buy my people's freedom:
... And he went back to Pleased. Two-faced jerk.
Oh, and just for good measure? With the war finally over and the rebuilding effort about to begin, the people whose freedom I had so dearly purchased gave me a big, resounding #$%^ you:
And it looks like Hattie's gonna beat us to that Iron:
So, anyway, here's the current state of the world:
And the sorry state of what was once our thriving metropolis at Timbuktu:
Well, there you have it. I think I've bungled this beyond any hope of repair. I've learned a lot about the drawbacks of starting in Health hell, of the problems inherent to a delayed start without an early "catch-up" war, and the perils of neglecting your military, even when everyone around you is your friend.
I think, at this point, the best move would be to declare this a learning experience and start over, migrating to the Upper Nile, Morocco or Libya and going for Hattie's throat early on. Once we've secured Africa, then we can concentrate on beating back the jungles and building our financial empire.
Of course, there's also something to be said for pressing on. I'll include the save for your perusal, and you all can tell me what you want me to do. I am, as always, at the disposal of the hive mind
Joshua368
Warmongering builder
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2008
- Messages
- 3,072
If you want to start over to settle on the Nile, just pick Egypt. 
Do you think the game is hopelessly lost at this point? The last picture makes it look deceptively bleak, with your capital in turmoil cutting out over a quarter of your research and income. The picture before that makes you look fine though. Doesn't seem like a problem some good ol' fashioned medieval warfare can't solve (with elephants thrown in) but then again I'm not sure how powerful your cities are in production.
At any rate, it looks like you're doing fine to me, tech-wise. Your only real threat happens to be Hapshepsut, so once you recover (and maybe wait a little bit and beeline guilds --> gunpower for knights/musketmen) take her out and you should be in a great position for the rest of the game.
Do you think the game is hopelessly lost at this point? The last picture makes it look deceptively bleak, with your capital in turmoil cutting out over a quarter of your research and income. The picture before that makes you look fine though. Doesn't seem like a problem some good ol' fashioned medieval warfare can't solve (with elephants thrown in) but then again I'm not sure how powerful your cities are in production.
At any rate, it looks like you're doing fine to me, tech-wise. Your only real threat happens to be Hapshepsut, so once you recover (and maybe wait a little bit and beeline guilds --> gunpower for knights/musketmen) take her out and you should be in a great position for the rest of the game.
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
Well that war with Cyrus certainly sucked. It never ceases to amaze me how far the AI will march troops into battle on this map.
You're actually competing quite well in tech (with the exception of one or two rivals), so the game's not toast yet. The most worrying thing is the Arabian culture down in the south-east, which could mean Saladin's busy gobbling up prime real estate from under your nose. If Hatty beats you to the northern iron, I'd look to settle another city near the jungle copper to block her from expanding further south. With shared religion and OR, she'll be friendly so you don't need to worry about war with Egypt.
Hatty's a cultural menace, but doesn't build that many units and has a tendency to get dogpiled by other AIs, so the chance to take her out may present itself down the line. It will be a bit of a slog playing catchup, but if you're able to grab most of Africa you should be set. The alternative is to focus on getting your jungle-choppers across the Atlantic!
You're actually competing quite well in tech (with the exception of one or two rivals), so the game's not toast yet. The most worrying thing is the Arabian culture down in the south-east, which could mean Saladin's busy gobbling up prime real estate from under your nose. If Hatty beats you to the northern iron, I'd look to settle another city near the jungle copper to block her from expanding further south. With shared religion and OR, she'll be friendly so you don't need to worry about war with Egypt.
Hatty's a cultural menace, but doesn't build that many units and has a tendency to get dogpiled by other AIs, so the chance to take her out may present itself down the line. It will be a bit of a slog playing catchup, but if you're able to grab most of Africa you should be set. The alternative is to focus on getting your jungle-choppers across the Atlantic!
Pieman
Prince
Ouch. Fair bit of bad luck there. Still though, the game still might be salvageable, if you can conquer Hatty that is.
Yeah, you all are right. I'm just a little quick to throw up my hands in despair. The research situation isn't as bad as I'd thought (I forgot about Timbuktu going "off the grid" with that revolt). I just hate losing advanced cottages like that, especially when I have to "pay" the worker time premium for improving flood plains.
But not every game can be an ostentatious cakewalk through unsuspecting AIs. Let this game, then, be a showcase of surviving adversity and accomplishing unpretentious goals.
So, given that a frontal assault on Egypt at this point is not really an option, what should our medium-term goal be? Slowly build up for war with Spain? Assuming we could withstand the bombardment of Louis' culture, Madrid would solve our production woes, at least for a good while. Continue to slowly tame the jungles? I fear we're losing the race there with Saladin and Hatsepshut (especially with Egypt's accursed Creative Culture), but giving up is only going to make it worse.
What do you all think?
But not every game can be an ostentatious cakewalk through unsuspecting AIs. Let this game, then, be a showcase of surviving adversity and accomplishing unpretentious goals.
So, given that a frontal assault on Egypt at this point is not really an option, what should our medium-term goal be? Slowly build up for war with Spain? Assuming we could withstand the bombardment of Louis' culture, Madrid would solve our production woes, at least for a good while. Continue to slowly tame the jungles? I fear we're losing the race there with Saladin and Hatsepshut (especially with Egypt's accursed Creative Culture), but giving up is only going to make it worse.
What do you all think?
civvver
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 5,855
You need to secure metals and get them out of hattie's hands. Take her city in north africa with some elephants. I doubt she has the guts to sprawl all the way to the metals in the south. Then it's up to you what to do.
The issue with going for spain is france's culture will push you hard. Then if you take paris, london's and berlin's culture will push you out, etc. It's rough to take europe without doing it in one fell swoop pushing through all the major capitols.
If you take madrid be ready to push through to paris, imo. Both those cities are production monsters, which would help you a ton since your main cities are lacking in that department.
The issue with going for spain is france's culture will push you hard. Then if you take paris, london's and berlin's culture will push you out, etc. It's rough to take europe without doing it in one fell swoop pushing through all the major capitols.
If you take madrid be ready to push through to paris, imo. Both those cities are production monsters, which would help you a ton since your main cities are lacking in that department.
BakingTheArt
His Evening Coat
I think the main mistake of the game was not going for Carthage for the capital. Still, I think that the best idea would be to play on until it's completely and utterly unsalvageable.
A pretty uneventful round, but we received some pleasant surprises.
Cyrus, apparently tired of razing our towns and impressed by our resilience in the face off his assault, asked for our aid:
"It would be nothing short of madness for you, brave king, and your valiant troops to perish. All because of a simple misunderstanding. There is much our cultures could share. I am a generous god. I can make you rich beyond all measure. I will make you warlord of all Africa. You will carry my battle standard to the heart of Asia. Your Egyptian rivals will kneel at your feet if you will but kneel at mine."
"You are generous as you are divine, O king of kings. Such an offer only a madman would refuse. We will join in your war, but we ain't sending any troops."
"Done, then!"
And if we're gonna get involved in one fake war, we may as well get involved in a bunch of them. We joined Catherine against Rome and Louis against Spain. Yippee!
And then Cyrus decided that if I wasn't going to fight, I wasn't going to get credit for fighting:
So, uh, that was some military alliance we had there, huh?
Meanwhile, I had given up hope of getting that Iron city in northwest Africa. My Settler was two turns from completion while Hatty's was two tiles from the site. Getting another source of Iron was going to be most difficult, and I was resigned to being limited to the Copper to the south.
Fortunately, the AI, for all its advantages, isn't very smart:
So things were looking up. I still had a shot at that Iron city, Cyrus was Pleased and Genghis was brought back to Pleased with a gift of Monarchy, and Timbuktu's commerce was making a comeback.
Egypt sent out a second settler looking for that Iron city, though. It was a near thing, but I managed a spot that corrals all the resources except the Crabs (getting those would put us squarely in the Spanish Cultural Kill Zone). So Hatty, girl genius that she is, didn't snake those extra gems off to our west. No, she did this:
The new millenium meant new tech trades. Cathy got Civil Service for Compass and some cash, Civil Service and 50 gold went to Alexander for Feudalism (and Bureaucracy and Serfdom were both promptly adopted, boosting Timbuktu significantly and giving us a leg up on conquering those jungles), and Compass went to Saladin with 60 gold for half of Machinery. So, yes, with those techs and iron, we are now able to build "real" units.
Around this time, we managed to let Spain off the hook for a few gold, and Caesar vassalized to Russia, so we are once again "between wars." Unless you count the barbarians that still bubble up from the south every now and again.
We then researched Paper which we traded around for Theology, Aesthetics, some gold, a real map and, later, Literature. We then started on Drama. Then it was election season!
So here's Africa as it currently stands:
And the hemisphere as a whole:
Russia is becoming quite the superpower, and it looks like once again Louis managed to sneak a Settler onto the British Isles. Must be some kind of change with the patch.
And here's the always-exciting compendium of charts:
Unfortunately, Paper and Drama aren't enough to get Guilds from Asoka, nor is Drama alone enough to get anything from Hattie.
So, yeah. Mostly ho-hum. Looks like the Arabs beat us to Madagascar, and the Indians are likely island hopping in the south Pacific with the Japanese, so there go my plans for Colonization, but you all are right. We're not dead yet.
In fact, I think we've got enough infrastructure now that we can transition to a wartime economy from a position of strength rather than of desperation. In fact, I see that as almost our only real move. We're able to keep our heads above water, but if we're going to win, we're going to need to do it the hard way.
I trust you all agree?
Cyrus, apparently tired of razing our towns and impressed by our resilience in the face off his assault, asked for our aid:
"It would be nothing short of madness for you, brave king, and your valiant troops to perish. All because of a simple misunderstanding. There is much our cultures could share. I am a generous god. I can make you rich beyond all measure. I will make you warlord of all Africa. You will carry my battle standard to the heart of Asia. Your Egyptian rivals will kneel at your feet if you will but kneel at mine."
"You are generous as you are divine, O king of kings. Such an offer only a madman would refuse. We will join in your war, but we ain't sending any troops."
"Done, then!"
And if we're gonna get involved in one fake war, we may as well get involved in a bunch of them. We joined Catherine against Rome and Louis against Spain. Yippee!
And then Cyrus decided that if I wasn't going to fight, I wasn't going to get credit for fighting:
So, uh, that was some military alliance we had there, huh?
Meanwhile, I had given up hope of getting that Iron city in northwest Africa. My Settler was two turns from completion while Hatty's was two tiles from the site. Getting another source of Iron was going to be most difficult, and I was resigned to being limited to the Copper to the south.
Fortunately, the AI, for all its advantages, isn't very smart:
So things were looking up. I still had a shot at that Iron city, Cyrus was Pleased and Genghis was brought back to Pleased with a gift of Monarchy, and Timbuktu's commerce was making a comeback.
Egypt sent out a second settler looking for that Iron city, though. It was a near thing, but I managed a spot that corrals all the resources except the Crabs (getting those would put us squarely in the Spanish Cultural Kill Zone). So Hatty, girl genius that she is, didn't snake those extra gems off to our west. No, she did this:
The new millenium meant new tech trades. Cathy got Civil Service for Compass and some cash, Civil Service and 50 gold went to Alexander for Feudalism (and Bureaucracy and Serfdom were both promptly adopted, boosting Timbuktu significantly and giving us a leg up on conquering those jungles), and Compass went to Saladin with 60 gold for half of Machinery. So, yes, with those techs and iron, we are now able to build "real" units.
Around this time, we managed to let Spain off the hook for a few gold, and Caesar vassalized to Russia, so we are once again "between wars." Unless you count the barbarians that still bubble up from the south every now and again.
We then researched Paper which we traded around for Theology, Aesthetics, some gold, a real map and, later, Literature. We then started on Drama. Then it was election season!
So here's Africa as it currently stands:
And the hemisphere as a whole:
Russia is becoming quite the superpower, and it looks like once again Louis managed to sneak a Settler onto the British Isles. Must be some kind of change with the patch.
And here's the always-exciting compendium of charts:
Unfortunately, Paper and Drama aren't enough to get Guilds from Asoka, nor is Drama alone enough to get anything from Hattie.
So, yeah. Mostly ho-hum. Looks like the Arabs beat us to Madagascar, and the Indians are likely island hopping in the south Pacific with the Japanese, so there go my plans for Colonization, but you all are right. We're not dead yet.
In fact, I think we've got enough infrastructure now that we can transition to a wartime economy from a position of strength rather than of desperation. In fact, I see that as almost our only real move. We're able to keep our heads above water, but if we're going to win, we're going to need to do it the hard way.
I trust you all agree?
r_rolo1
King of myself
Hatty has to go down, as well as Sal. All your planning should resume to this.
And of course , to not be on Cathy bad side.
And of course , to not be on Cathy bad side.
r_rolo1
King of myself
deleted .....
Ultimocrat
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 274
Wow, that city placement by Egypt is something else ...
War against Egypt seems like the way to go, but your production is puny, so I don't see how you'll possibly have enough units. Anyhow, good luck.
War against Egypt seems like the way to go, but your production is puny, so I don't see how you'll possibly have enough units. Anyhow, good luck.
Well, I take solace in the fact that Hattie's not much of a warmonger, and Egypt isn't exactly a production powerhouse, either. But yeah, it's a tall task.
Kev
Hired Goon
Should you got to war with Hattie, will your main cities be blocked from getting iron with the two Egyptian desert cities there? Can't really tell...
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
Giza and Byblos have to be the two worst cities I've ever seen the AI settle 
Temujin will almost certainly join in if you're looking for a war ally against Egypt; pretty much everyone else will remain neutral as they'll be at least pleased with you (Cathy can be bribed at friendly unfortunately, but I'm sure she'll have her hands full elsewhere).
Build a few maces/jumbos/longbows now and you'll be good to go with a couple of pikes and some trebs once engineering's in. Hatty doesn't build a lot of troops and there'll be some juicy towns to capture around her Nile cities. Once you've got the military techs you want for war, don't be afraid to whip away most of your population into an army. It'll grow back while you're warring and is a short-term loss for a long-term gain.
The alternative to the production problem is to wait until nationalism/gunpowder and draft a bunch of muskets, slowly massing trebs in the meantime.
Temujin will almost certainly join in if you're looking for a war ally against Egypt; pretty much everyone else will remain neutral as they'll be at least pleased with you (Cathy can be bribed at friendly unfortunately, but I'm sure she'll have her hands full elsewhere).
Build a few maces/jumbos/longbows now and you'll be good to go with a couple of pikes and some trebs once engineering's in. Hatty doesn't build a lot of troops and there'll be some juicy towns to capture around her Nile cities. Once you've got the military techs you want for war, don't be afraid to whip away most of your population into an army. It'll grow back while you're warring and is a short-term loss for a long-term gain.
The alternative to the production problem is to wait until nationalism/gunpowder and draft a bunch of muskets, slowly massing trebs in the meantime.
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
Once Giza's been razed, trade with the rest of the empire (and the rest of the world) will be restored, so that'll have to be an early priority in any pre-astronomy war.
If you want the AP to keep its nose out of your warring, the best time to declare is the turn a resolution gets proposed.
