Stewie0416
Who Cares?
the suspense is killing me!
King of the World #4: Mansa Musa
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
Many digital people died in this round.
Things started innocently enough. We gave Hattie an economic tech in exchange for a much-needed infusion of cash:
After Louis beat us to the punch in taking Madrid, I was most disappointed. Madrid was going to be our production capital, a war with Spain was going to be a nice, safe proving ground for our raw troops, and blah, blah, blah. At the end of the previous round, I had even begun moving our stack away from Gibraltar.
Then I was inspired (thanks, Dutchfire!). France's elimination of Spain was an opportunity! Louis was no more well-liked by the Hindu community than Isabella was, and the chaos of the "new management" meant that it would be easier to take than ever! The stack turned right around, augmented by some new recruits to handle the Knights I knew France was going to bring to the party:
As you can also see, Louis has been wasting his time on circumnavigation. I always hate to lose that race, but it's not looking like much naval action is in the cards for this game, anyway.
Still in the buildup and ferrying stages, we learned Astronomy from the heathen Chinese in exchange for Printing Press and Education. A steep price, but one I was willing to pay. I'd always thought China was supposed to have originated the Printing Press, though... We also shipped Printing Press and Banking to Catherine for Nationalism, a technology that was to be instrumental in the coming war(s).
The Faithful organized a universal open borders pact, which was great, since it finally freed my Galley in Kumbi Saleh to pass through grumpy old Caesar's waters to join in ferrying units across to Iberia.
In 1520, we were finally able to pull the trigger:
We waited a little too long in that Louis was able to get Madrid up and running. There would be losses, but we still had the manpower to get the job done
And just to ensure that France wouldn't be able to send troops from Paris:
Was all of this overkill? Maybe.
But it was fun. Nothing juicy in Madrid, not even a shrine. But its land is primo.
So that was that. I had tasted blood. The enlightened ways of Mansa Musa had gone out the window. It was time to secure Mali's future:
The French Brigade began by erasing the yellow stain that rent our empire in twain:
As troops mustered (thanks, Nationhood!) and Africa went up in the flames of war, another coup took place in the Apostolic Palace:
Exit, Pope Cyrus. Enter, Pope Catherine.
To be fair, Africa wasn't the only continent wracked by war:
This resulted in Louis, obviously, capitulating to the Russian Empire. Yes, Catherine is now that much stronger as a result of my actions. But it made the conquest of Madrid possible, and gave us the ability to actually work most of its tiles. And the French (or, should I say at this point, the Irish) always bugged me, anyway.
In Central Africa, meanwhile, our fresh new stack set its eyes on its first target:
I realized something about right here. Hattie has Horses. She has a ton of tech on us. She doesn't have a lot of production, but, then, neither do I. Here's the kicker.... She doesn't have metals of any sort! That's why she's still got War Chariots running around, she has Longbows but no Crossbows, and I have very little to fear from an Egyptian stack!
Of course, with Gunpowder now a common tech and with me stupidly having traded Printing Press to Egypt at the beginning of the round, this put us on the clock for Hattie getting Rifling, at which point her lack of metals ceases to be a factor.
Giza, being a one-population city because it's in the middle of the freakin' desert, auto-razed. Of course, in the Industrial era (as Hattie apparently is), razing a city means it explodes into a thousand minor annoyances:
But, of course, it's not all bad. As the Madrid/Byblos stack passed through the ruins of Giza, they apparently found something useful:
While all this was going on, I was at war with Mongolia. Don't ask me why. Maybe they declared on me, maybe Cyrus sucked me in again. I dunno. Regardless, around this time, Pope Catherine made me stop. *shrug* Whatever. Less War Weariness, I guess.
Anyway (and I can't believe I didn't make more screenshots of this), the last major event of the round was the siege of Memphis:
As you can see, Hattie's down to one barely-alive Musketman and I have a healthy Knight rarin' to go. But she's got a ton and a half of units on their way. There's no way the Knight could hold out. And, besides, if the city were taken here, St. Peter would die in the fighting.
I waited a turn, let her reinforce, suffered a few casualties, but nothing major, and...
Sure enough, there's St. Pete! And a slew of wonders to boot! Of course, with Thebes up there, we're not goign to be able to work many of those juicy Towns.
And, uh...
Hattie is now the vassal of Asoka. India only had a Crossbow and a Knight in Africa, so they were dispatched quickly, but I fear the impending hammer of a fresh Stack of Doom hitting our borders.
Here's a look at what remains of our Malinesian horde:
Hopefully that's enough to take Thebes. Otherwise maybe we should just cower and hide until Asoka is willing to talk peace.
Here's the state of the world:
So what do you all think? We're largely in the dark thanks to our utter lack of Espionage, but I think we can make some educated guesses. Asoka's not much of a warrior on this map, but, then, neither is Mansa Musa.
It's going to take a while for our stack to heal up to full effectiveness, during which I'm sure Hattie will be reinforcing Thebes, possibly with Maces, Pikes and Crossbowmen if Asoka gifts her metals.
And, yes, our population is significantly lower than it was last round. Gotta love the twin specter of the whip and the draft. That's also why we have a ton of Musketmen running around right now. I've never owned this many Muskets in any game of Civ IV, ever. They do the job, though.
I'm finally excited about this game, so I look forward to any discussions about the current situation.
Things started innocently enough. We gave Hattie an economic tech in exchange for a much-needed infusion of cash:
After Louis beat us to the punch in taking Madrid, I was most disappointed. Madrid was going to be our production capital, a war with Spain was going to be a nice, safe proving ground for our raw troops, and blah, blah, blah. At the end of the previous round, I had even begun moving our stack away from Gibraltar.
Then I was inspired (thanks, Dutchfire!). France's elimination of Spain was an opportunity! Louis was no more well-liked by the Hindu community than Isabella was, and the chaos of the "new management" meant that it would be easier to take than ever! The stack turned right around, augmented by some new recruits to handle the Knights I knew France was going to bring to the party:
As you can also see, Louis has been wasting his time on circumnavigation. I always hate to lose that race, but it's not looking like much naval action is in the cards for this game, anyway.
Still in the buildup and ferrying stages, we learned Astronomy from the heathen Chinese in exchange for Printing Press and Education. A steep price, but one I was willing to pay. I'd always thought China was supposed to have originated the Printing Press, though... We also shipped Printing Press and Banking to Catherine for Nationalism, a technology that was to be instrumental in the coming war(s).
The Faithful organized a universal open borders pact, which was great, since it finally freed my Galley in Kumbi Saleh to pass through grumpy old Caesar's waters to join in ferrying units across to Iberia.
In 1520, we were finally able to pull the trigger:
We waited a little too long in that Louis was able to get Madrid up and running. There would be losses, but we still had the manpower to get the job done
And just to ensure that France wouldn't be able to send troops from Paris:
Was all of this overkill? Maybe.
But it was fun. Nothing juicy in Madrid, not even a shrine. But its land is primo.
So that was that. I had tasted blood. The enlightened ways of Mansa Musa had gone out the window. It was time to secure Mali's future:
The French Brigade began by erasing the yellow stain that rent our empire in twain:
As troops mustered (thanks, Nationhood!) and Africa went up in the flames of war, another coup took place in the Apostolic Palace:
Exit, Pope Cyrus. Enter, Pope Catherine.
To be fair, Africa wasn't the only continent wracked by war:
This resulted in Louis, obviously, capitulating to the Russian Empire. Yes, Catherine is now that much stronger as a result of my actions. But it made the conquest of Madrid possible, and gave us the ability to actually work most of its tiles. And the French (or, should I say at this point, the Irish) always bugged me, anyway.
In Central Africa, meanwhile, our fresh new stack set its eyes on its first target:
I realized something about right here. Hattie has Horses. She has a ton of tech on us. She doesn't have a lot of production, but, then, neither do I. Here's the kicker.... She doesn't have metals of any sort! That's why she's still got War Chariots running around, she has Longbows but no Crossbows, and I have very little to fear from an Egyptian stack!
Of course, with Gunpowder now a common tech and with me stupidly having traded Printing Press to Egypt at the beginning of the round, this put us on the clock for Hattie getting Rifling, at which point her lack of metals ceases to be a factor.
Giza, being a one-population city because it's in the middle of the freakin' desert, auto-razed. Of course, in the Industrial era (as Hattie apparently is), razing a city means it explodes into a thousand minor annoyances:
But, of course, it's not all bad. As the Madrid/Byblos stack passed through the ruins of Giza, they apparently found something useful:
While all this was going on, I was at war with Mongolia. Don't ask me why. Maybe they declared on me, maybe Cyrus sucked me in again. I dunno. Regardless, around this time, Pope Catherine made me stop. *shrug* Whatever. Less War Weariness, I guess.
Anyway (and I can't believe I didn't make more screenshots of this), the last major event of the round was the siege of Memphis:
As you can see, Hattie's down to one barely-alive Musketman and I have a healthy Knight rarin' to go. But she's got a ton and a half of units on their way. There's no way the Knight could hold out. And, besides, if the city were taken here, St. Peter would die in the fighting.
I waited a turn, let her reinforce, suffered a few casualties, but nothing major, and...
Sure enough, there's St. Pete! And a slew of wonders to boot! Of course, with Thebes up there, we're not goign to be able to work many of those juicy Towns.
And, uh...
Hattie is now the vassal of Asoka. India only had a Crossbow and a Knight in Africa, so they were dispatched quickly, but I fear the impending hammer of a fresh Stack of Doom hitting our borders.
Here's a look at what remains of our Malinesian horde:
Hopefully that's enough to take Thebes. Otherwise maybe we should just cower and hide until Asoka is willing to talk peace.
Here's the state of the world:
So what do you all think? We're largely in the dark thanks to our utter lack of Espionage, but I think we can make some educated guesses. Asoka's not much of a warrior on this map, but, then, neither is Mansa Musa.
It's going to take a while for our stack to heal up to full effectiveness, during which I'm sure Hattie will be reinforcing Thebes, possibly with Maces, Pikes and Crossbowmen if Asoka gifts her metals.
And, yes, our population is significantly lower than it was last round. Gotta love the twin specter of the whip and the draft. That's also why we have a ton of Musketmen running around right now. I've never owned this many Muskets in any game of Civ IV, ever. They do the job, though.
I'm finally excited about this game, so I look forward to any discussions about the current situation.
DMOC
Mathematician
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Messages
- 5,594
Good job, be sure to take Thebes. I'm a little worried about a lack of troops, though. You've got 17 as shown in your big stack but I like to have stacks of at least 25-30 when facing against a large opponent. Also, your great general is a city raider? Perhaps he should be a supermedic so all those injured muskets heal faster?
And does Hatshepsut have rifling already? The tech screen doesn't show any icon for rifling which probably means that both of you have it, right?
And does Hatshepsut have rifling already? The tech screen doesn't show any icon for rifling which probably means that both of you have it, right?
Good point on Rifling. I haven't seen any Riflemen in the field yet. She may have just gotten it, which may make a siege on Thebes that much more unappetizing.
Regarding the CR GG, my plan is to upgrade him to a Rifleman. My next General will be a Medic. Perhaps I should have switched the order...
Regarding the CR GG, my plan is to upgrade him to a Rifleman. My next General will be a Medic. Perhaps I should have switched the order...
r_rolo1
King of myself
Nice....
You have atleast 10 turns of assured war with asoka, so the best is to siege Thebes anyway...... after that....
Have you considered settling S. America
? Lots of jungle to cut, but nothing you aren't used to 
And there are some sites with 20 riverside grassland tiles 
You have atleast 10 turns of assured war with asoka, so the best is to siege Thebes anyway...... after that....
Have you considered settling S. America
? Lots of jungle to cut, but nothing you aren't used to And there are some sites with 20 riverside grassland tiles 
civvver
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 5,855
I like the settle south america idea. It's probably too late for a domination/conquest win, but with all of africa under your grip plus south american cottages for funds and beakers you can probably win space race without much trouble. Madrid will help a lot in getting some crucial parts up.
Catherine looks like a monster, am I seeing that right? 4 vassals? All of europe pretty much? As much as I love the land in europe, you really can't afford to go toe to toe with her, but she loves you so if you can get her to throw down agains the rest of europe/asia while you colonize south american and build spaceships you should be set.
Catherine looks like a monster, am I seeing that right? 4 vassals? All of europe pretty much? As much as I love the land in europe, you really can't afford to go toe to toe with her, but she loves you so if you can get her to throw down agains the rest of europe/asia while you colonize south american and build spaceships you should be set.
Joshua368
Warmongering builder
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2008
- Messages
- 3,072
Yeah, your first general should usually go into a super medic. As fun as super city raiders are, medics are simply far more useful, being able to get your army back in top shape is just two or three turns rather than six or nine even in enemy land. Super city raider is usually my second great general.
Well quickly taking Thebes before Asoka's forces arrive seems like the obvious choice, those are a lot of delicious floodplain towns you need access to. After that you can probably let Hapshepsut live the rest of her days in south african mediocrity and watch as her massive tech lead goes away.
After peace with Asoka... where what other options do you have? Going to war against the Russian superpower will probably be devastating... you might to able to get some land from Saladin but after that it looks like expansion into the new world will be the only way to go, and since you did that with a powerful military last game this time you'll probably want to peacefully settle South America instead.
Well quickly taking Thebes before Asoka's forces arrive seems like the obvious choice, those are a lot of delicious floodplain towns you need access to. After that you can probably let Hapshepsut live the rest of her days in south african mediocrity and watch as her massive tech lead goes away.
After peace with Asoka... where what other options do you have? Going to war against the Russian superpower will probably be devastating... you might to able to get some land from Saladin but after that it looks like expansion into the new world will be the only way to go, and since you did that with a powerful military last game this time you'll probably want to peacefully settle South America instead.
BakingTheArt
His Evening Coat
Yeah, I'm abandoning my plan of the Turkish troop factory, and I'm for settling South America. There are some good production spots there that could make great spaceship factories.
On a side note, it looks like America is dominant this game. Never seen that before.
On a side note, it looks like America is dominant this game. Never seen that before.
Well, I played a couple of rounds further, just enough to get my Spy in close to Thebes... and it's crawling with Riflemen. I hate to say it, but I don't think we can take it with the forces currently at our disposal.
So, I'm thinking turtle up and sue for peace with India as soon as possible. What then? Should we build up for a second Egyptian war for the purpose of taking Thebes? Or should South America be our overriding goal?
One other thing... We've only birthed one Great Person so far, an Engineer currently cooling his heels in Timbuktu. I plan on weighting things to get a Great Artist to see what we can claim for Thebes...
So, I'm thinking turtle up and sue for peace with India as soon as possible. What then? Should we build up for a second Egyptian war for the purpose of taking Thebes? Or should South America be our overriding goal?
One other thing... We've only birthed one Great Person so far, an Engineer currently cooling his heels in Timbuktu. I plan on weighting things to get a Great Artist to see what we can claim for Thebes...
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
Hatty'll have so much tile culture in the area around Thebes that a culture bomb won't get you anywhere.
Edit: a culture bomb in south America would be very beneficial in snagging a load of prime real-estate cheaply though.
Her vassaling to Asoka is a real pain as he's almost certainly gifted her rifling etc. I think the main thing to consider is whether you want to risk Cathy getting even stronger by bribing her into war with India. If you've got something to bribe her into peace again with, that'll keep Asoka off your back long enough to take more Egyptian cities. Trebs/muskets actually do pretty well against defending rifles when attacking cities, so sacking Thebes will be possible at your current tech level if you're willing to take the losses to do it.
Leveraging astronomy and your geographical position to take some south American jungle is definitely the easiest way forward from here. Make sure you send plenty of maces/muskets over to clear out the barbs though; they'll really delay your workers from clear-cutting otherwise. Oh, and don't forget that farms > cottages until the city hits about size 10 to maximize whipping out necessary infrastructure and rapidly growing population.
r_rolo1
King of myself
How feasible is to turn Cathy vs Asoka ? Cathy can't win via backdoor diplo yet and it is very far away of winning via dom or conquest, so the danger is little.
Anyway a nice run to space will probably be your best bet ( after you find a way of smashing Thebes... that city has to not be Egyptian or otherwise you will not be able to do anything with Menphis ).
P.S Hatty will probably try to spam settlers again. Be wary.
Cathy can't win via backdoor diplo yet and it is very far away of winning via dom or conquest, so the danger is little.Anyway a nice run to space will probably be your best bet ( after you find a way of smashing Thebes... that city has to not be Egyptian or otherwise you will not be able to do anything with Menphis ).
P.S Hatty will probably try to spam settlers again. Be wary.
Shadowcrow
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2007
- Messages
- 49
oh wow, any merits in checking out Nth America? They seem to be largly to the side of the whole world.
The obvious Power blocks are Asoka, Cathy and maybe the Chinese?
Down south has some prime production realestate. Ones the jungles cut thats some pretty good cottage land. Personally I would try to get Cathy onto Asoka, then taking on Hatty, the only risk is if Cathy is too enthusiastic and asoka isn't a war monger she will become unstoppable.
How likely is it for say Asoka to attempt seaborne assualt? Cause that Hill that seperates Arabia and Africa makes a prime choke point. Beat Hatty off the continent and then fort that hill and use it to hold of counter attacks. That is if its done by land. I would want to get rid off hatty, look what those floodplains did for her tech lead. Take em use em.
The obvious Power blocks are Asoka, Cathy and maybe the Chinese?
Down south has some prime production realestate. Ones the jungles cut thats some pretty good cottage land. Personally I would try to get Cathy onto Asoka, then taking on Hatty, the only risk is if Cathy is too enthusiastic and asoka isn't a war monger she will become unstoppable.
How likely is it for say Asoka to attempt seaborne assualt? Cause that Hill that seperates Arabia and Africa makes a prime choke point. Beat Hatty off the continent and then fort that hill and use it to hold of counter attacks. That is if its done by land. I would want to get rid off hatty, look what those floodplains did for her tech lead. Take em use em.
Ultimocrat
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 274
Screw cottages, I'm salivating at the thought of using all that land for workshops and watermills. Africa will do just fine with science one the Congo Cottages are matured, and Thebes is captured -- it's production that is the huge handicap.
Hey, guys...
I'm ashamed to admit, I've tried a couple of times from the save to take Thebes, and it always ends with our stack being smashed. Our army, population, and economy are all tapped out from this war, so I think our only real option is to accept the fact that we stole some sweet Wonders, turtle up, and get peace from Asoka when we can get it. I will attach the save, since it's a fascinating military scenario, just one which I can't win. I'd love to see what some of the forum's better Civ players can do with it.
Meanwhile, I'm digging the idea of colonizing South America. Maybe we could even go crazy and pull a Pedro, move the capital there and turn present-day Mali into a colony. Either way, we've got three Galleons which stand ready to become our colonization fleet.
I'm ashamed to admit, I've tried a couple of times from the save to take Thebes, and it always ends with our stack being smashed. Our army, population, and economy are all tapped out from this war, so I think our only real option is to accept the fact that we stole some sweet Wonders, turtle up, and get peace from Asoka when we can get it. I will attach the save, since it's a fascinating military scenario, just one which I can't win. I'd love to see what some of the forum's better Civ players can do with it.
Meanwhile, I'm digging the idea of colonizing South America. Maybe we could even go crazy and pull a Pedro, move the capital there and turn present-day Mali into a colony. Either way, we've got three Galleons which stand ready to become our colonization fleet.
You knew all this before you started the game.
You just waited 2000 years to long taking on Egypt, instead you went for the jungle
The strategy for Mali is really straightforward (the actual execution is a bit harder because of the poor start, but still)
get iron, build and whip swords and a few spears, crush Hatty as early as possible.
civvver
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 5,855
I vote for Genghis, Incans or Elizabeth. The first two start off kinda screwed in their positioning, while England has a very unique situation: Settle your island and expand into norway/sweeden? Gally + axe rush europe? Set up colonies all over the world? There's a ton of ways to play it, reminds me of Toko, except that Toko can actually land a decent amount of cities in asia before Qin takes up all the room- Lizzy stands on chance at europe other than maybe a couple in scandinavia area.
Joshua368
Warmongering builder
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2008
- Messages
- 3,072
Elizabeth does sound good, perhaps he could play her on the 34-civ map (or whatever the number is) to make it really interesting.
