eldar08: Gridlocked!

CommandoBob said:

I changed the roster around a little bit.

Roster:
...
eldar (de-militarized; lurking)
...

Click to expand...

Now installed on Long Island and bored (gissa job!). I may consider pressing myself back into service. If I do I'll just post a got it and go....

Thanks for Shifting me down the Roster. Not that I am scared of an Continental Invasion of course

I plan to get a Strategy post up on Thursday and play over the weekend.

Just going from the notes and turnlogs, looks like we're ready to start Gridding Japan, but I'll soon know for sure.

We can get an ROP with the Babylonians for cheap; they'll pay us 1 gold (all they have).

We need to upgrade our galleys to caravels before we worry about that ROP, however. Will send galleys to Tad's Jungle Mansion. It appears to be the only city on the east coast with a harbor.

I don't think we'll get to bother Japan in these turns, but we will be very ready to do so by turn 10.

Next player (after me) will have a lot of fun as we begin to grid Japan.

Preflight
Republic, 0.10.0
627 gold, -57 gpt
Chemistry in 4 turns

Military
00 Settlers
07 Workers
55 Slaves
03 Spears
39 Swords
03 Horses
01 Pikes
03 Muskets
18 Catapults
05 Galleys
02 Army
06 Maces

Allowed Units: 78
Current units: 87
Cost per turn: 18 gold

Resorces Connected to Mayflower 871
02 Saltpeter
03 Iron
02 Horses
01 Dyes
02 Incense
03 Silks
05 Gems

We could really use a 5th luxury. There are Spices between Edo and Osaka.

Cycle through the cities; hire and fire some specialists.

Oea Ranch courthouse -> vCaravel in 35.
Salt Well Villa courthouse -> vCaravel in 30.
Moose Ranch courthouse -> trebuchet in 24.
The White House rMusket -> settler in 19.
Sin City Nasty courthouse -> settler in 21.
Sweet Young Thing courthouse -> aqueduct in 91.
Carthage courthouse -> harbor in 53.

Hit Enter.
[IBT 0750 AD]
Tad's jungle Mansion vMusket -> vMusket in 10.
Farmer's Club courthouse -> barracks in 8.

Zulu are building Leonardo's Workshop (Invention).
Zulu are buidling Sistine Chapel (Theology).
Greeks are building JS Bach's Cathedral (Music Theory).
Japan is building Leonardo's Workshop.
Japan is building Copernicus' Observatory (Astronomy).

Leonardo's Workshop is built in Kyoto, Japan.

Babylon is building Copernicus' Observatory.

1 0760 AD
[IBT]
Mayflower 871 vMusket -> vMusket in 5.
Wild Horse Adult Resort market -> courthouse in 20; clown becomes a geek.

Zulu are building Copernicus' Observatory (Astronomy).
Zulu are buidling Sistine Chapel (Theology), again.
Zulu are building Copernicus' Observatory, again.
Greeks are buidling Sistine Chapel.
Greeks are building JS Bach's Cathedral (Music Theory), again.
Greeks are building Copernicus' Observatory.
Babylon is building JS Bach's Cathedral.

2 0770 AD
[IBT]
The Emperor's Club vMusket -> vMusket in 6.
Fond of Females worker -> worker in 10.
Babylon Crossing barracks -> settler in 30.
Sin City Nasty settler -> settler in 30.

3 0780 AD
[IBT]
Three chops complete around Babylon Crossing, all go to Babylon Crossing.
We learn Chemistry, start on Metallurgy, 6 turns at 80%.

Hayloft Adventure settler -> settler in 30.
Babylon Crossing settler -> settler in 30.

Sistine Chapel is built in Babylon, Babylonia.


4 0790 AD
[IBT]
Maybe I traded too soon. Greece lands six units near Moonlight Bunny Ranch; 2 rArchers, 1 rWarrior, 1 rHorse and 2 rKnights.

Moonlight Bunny Ranch vMusket -> vMusket in 6.
Playboy Mansion aqueduct -> vKnight in 6.

Zulu are building Copernicus' Observatory (Astronomy), once again.

Copernicus' Observatory is built in Ngome, Zululand.

Greeks are building JS Bach's Cathedral (Music Theory), once again.

JS Bach's Cathedral is built in Athens, Greece.


5 0800 AD
[IBT]
Bad News


Greeks Dow on us with 6 units inside our territory and an active deal in place. Will their Trade Rep get tarnished? Probably not.

Greeks lose an Archer attacking Moonlight Bunny Ranch, the rest move around the city.

Spitzer's Shack vMusket -> vKnight in 8.
Plain Jem Mansion aqueduct -> vMace in 8.

6 0810 AD
[IBT]
Mayflower 871 vMusket -> vMusket in 5.
St. Silky Jungly Mansion vMusket -> vMusket in 7.
Persepolis Ranch settler -> settler in 30.

7 0820 AD
[IBT]
Japan drops off a settler pair rather close to our Iron colony, but not close enough to capture it in its initial nine tiles. We have three Iron connected.

8 0830 AD
[IBT]
Japan builds Nagaski on our soil.

Chicken Ranch courthouse -> granary in 7 (?).
Farmer's Club barracks -> vMace in 7.

9 0840 AD
[IBT]
We learn Metallurgy, begin on Military Tradition in 9 at 30%.

The Emperor Club vMusket -> vKnight in 8.
Soapland vKnight -> vKnight in 10.

10 0850 AD

I had planned to move our upgraded ships down towards Babylon Crossing but the Greek War stopped that. We have one galley left to upgrade; it arrived in Tad's Jungle Mansion this turn. The other 4 Caravels are still in that city.

We have workers ganged together to work better. Four slaves in a group to irrigate is the most common arrangment. We also have a group of 12 slaves clearing jungle, a group of 6 slaves clearing jungle and a group of 4 workers clearing jungle.

In Old Persia we have two mountains that are being roaded and some mining being irrigated.

Near Golden Ranch we have 4 slaves on their way to somewhere, south to Old Carthage or west to the Jungles. Not sure which way is best.

I think we need to reexamine our jungle clearing. Since we can't spam out our cities, the massive efforts we've spent on jungle eradication, which have been rather wholesale, may need to be refined. We might be clearing too much jungle and have open tiles that we will never use, due to the grid. A bit late now to see that, I admit.

In Babylon Crossing we have two settlers. We also have a third settler walking there; it is just SW of our captial and has a long walk ahead.

We have 16 turns to go on our MAs vs. Greece. We can either beat up on Greece and get out licks in while we can, or wait until the deals expire and go back to our original plan of stomping on Japan via Babylon.

Roster:
CommandoBob - just played
Optional - UP!
Rodent - on deck
Admiral Kutzov - warming up
Othniel - long term skip
eldar (de-militarized; lurking)
Tad_Empire_O_o - long term skip
MooseWarrior - long term skip (PC issues)

Excellent stuff, Bob! I would have done the same thing here, and just set everybody up against Greece.
They've been at peace for a million years on that other continent, and have just been stuckpiling units. Something needed to start rumbling there. Let's cross our fingers that they won't sign peace soon.

Just a couple of observations: You said, after Greece had landed a force in our borders, that they might change their mind. No chance, I would say. What you can do if you don't want to be attacked - I'm not talking specifically about this game now - is to arrange a Right of Passage for gold per turn. That can work. The AI doesn't care about its reputation, but it does care about a steady flow of money coming in.
I don't know whether the AI looks at the balance, though, so if you're giving them 10 gpt, then I don't know whether they're offsetting that to the 100 gpt they are paying you.
But we probably didn't want to avoid this war. Normally we would have been delighted, but the timing here couldn't have been worse with that money just about to come in.

And the AI never wants to talk the first couple of turns after a war declaration, at least I've never seen that. Maybe after ten turns or so, then they want to talk if things aren't going well for them.

I downloaded the save 3 times, but all 3 times I got something like: dataIO operation system error. I downloaded a couple of other saves in recent days without a problem, so it looks like it's specific to this save.

lurker's comment: Just sit back, watch the carnage, and send some Cavs to go tear up the other continent in 16 turns.

Once they land next to city, the Greeks weren't going to back off. If you had asked they, would have decared.

My reaction would have also been to get the rest of the AI to declare on Alex.

I'm not understanding why y'all seem to like gold rather than gpt for bribing the AI into war. My experience has been that republican AI's bail after 4 turns or so and we get our money back. Or if they don't bail we cripple their research with WW.

I'm almost so pleased with Bob's set that (TMI, sorry). Anyway, I love AI world wars.

Admiral Kutzov said:

I'm not understanding why y'all seem to like gold rather than gpt for bribing the AI into war. My experience has been that republican AI's bail after 4 turns or so and we get our money back. Or if they don't bail we cripple their research with WW.

Click to expand...

For me, I just don't like paying gold to the AI. I'd rather pay a lump sum and still have all of the cash flow.

I may have to change that when MAing, though.

I'd much rather pay gpt to the AI than a lump sum - especially when we're the one dictating terms. If they want to back out of the deal, it's their loss.

Thanks for the comments, Admiral Kutzov and Eldar. I'm only just beginning to get my head around the fact that it is indeed sometimes better to pay the AI in gpt.
I've got the save, by the way; the save was fine. It won't be today or tomorrow that I'll play, but probably over the weekend.

Pre-play/action plan:

Eldar08, 850AD, Republic
Military Tradition in 6 turns, 70% science, +28 gpt.

Military Aliiances with Babylon, Zulu and Japan,
all against Greece. All have 16 turns to go.

Military:
4 settlers
63 workers, of which 55 slaves
3 spears
11 muskets
1 knight
39 swords (CivAssist probably includes the 6 swords in our armies in that)
6 medieval infantry
18 catapults
1 galley
4 caravels
2 armies

Some upgrading badly needed here. Lots of swords and catapults; great for AA, but we're on the brink of IA. Can't invade the other continent with this. Slowing science down a bit in favor of upgrades seems justified (I'll keep science at 70% for the moment, but can imagine adjusting downwards).

I'm not going through all the builds, but I'll change the 4 musket builds to knight builds. We've already got 11 muskets, compared to 1 knight. I'll change the medieval infantry build in Plain Jim Mension to a knight as well. At first I'll leave the knights at home as mobile defenders against the Greeks.

A couple of our workers could move back to the core, where there are still some forests that could be chopped for more food. The war happiness is noticable and allows for an extra citizen here and there.

I'll start the troop transportation to the other continent; plan is to land in Babylonian terrirory, muskets first, with an RoP with Hammurabi. From there, Japan is just to the west, Greece just to the east, It'll still be 1 or 2 turnsets before we have gathered a decent force over the pond.

I've played 6 turns. I'm happy to play the full 10, but I believe some team input here would be nice. We've just researched Military Tradition, and we need to make a decision about what next.
I believe it's Physics that we want, because after that comes Magnetism, and Magnetism gives galleons, which could bring our 2 swords armies across the pond.

Some troops of ours are already across. We need more, but we're close to action. Japan has signed peace with Greece, meaning we're not in any kind of deal with Japan anymore. So we can attack Japan.
We can also attack Greece, but then we risk losing our war happiness. Zulu and Babylon are still at war with Greece, so I would leave it to them to sort the Greeks out.
We're in long running deals with both Zulu and Babylon.

Here's the turnlog:

Physics -> Magnetism (Galleons) sounds good.

If Japan is an open target, then we implement our orginal plan; that is, take on Japan via Babylon. Do we MA with Babylon vs. Japan after we start? Seems like we should.

I've played the last 4 turns of my set. Here they are:

Handoff:

This is our military now:
5 settlers
9 workers, 55 slaves
2 spearmen
1 pike
12 muskets
19 swords, of which 6 in armies
26 medieval infantry
1 horseman
1 knight
11 cavalry
2 catapults
18 cannons
6 caravels
2 armies (swords)

Research: physics, 1 turn to go.
Then, normally: Magnetism (galleons) > Theory of Gravity (last required tech of MA) > Steam Power
We are already building lots of workers to lay rails.

Diplomacy:
Allied with Zulu and Babs against Greece; 6 turns to go in both.
Gpt deals with Zulu and Babs (they're paying us); 11 turns to go in both.
At war with Greece, war happiness from Greece.
No deals with Japan, ready for an attack on them.

What we need to decide is whether we want an ally against Japan. Japan isn't much: no iron and no saltpeter. But they could ally with someone against us, most likely Zulu, because Japan has techs that Zulu miss.
But when Japan ally with Zulu, we can set Babylon up against Zulu, and that could turn out to be a much better deal for us.
And if Japan ally Babs, it can work the other way round; we can set Zulu up against Babs.
Japan itself looks so weak that I personally would not be seeking an ally against them.
Here's a picture; the blue dots represent our grid pattern:

I forgot the save:

Roster:
Optional - just played
Rodent - UP!
Admiral Kutzov - on deck
CommandoBob - warming up
Othniel - long term skip
eldar (de-militarized; lurking)
Tad_Empire_O_o - long term skip
MooseWarrior - long term skip (PC issues)

Okay: do we have settler ready to build a coastal town on the grid? I'd personally be hitting Sippar for that reason - we can keep it (or at least raze & replace), get ships (with Muskets) in right away, rush walls (which will absorb some Greek forces...), and spread out.

I would also suggest burning the Greek cities next to it as it will be a huge flip risk. Actually as any city we try to keep will be a big flip risk maybe raze & replace is the way to go for good.