Wodan
Deity
The WOI option to cease trading with Europe is a problem for warehouses. They should have a benefit in such cases to replace the 50% of Europe's price. Maybe 33.3% of the highest Native price.
Col Bug Fixes / Feature Enhancements Patch
- Thread starter snoopy369
- Start date
tour86rocker, I'll thank-you to not use so denigrating a tone.
Now, to expand upon my previous post, and perhaps explain things a bit more clearly:
On the 'Normal' gamespeed (the one it turns out I was using) having no Warehouse is supposed to allow you to store 100 of a good. Constructing the Warehouse is supposed to up that storage to 200, and the Expansion allow 300. Epic would increase these limits to 150/300/450, and Marathon to 300/600/900. Now, although the limit appears to function properly when you have no Warehouse, and the game correctly dumps all goods in excess of 100 (on Normal), as soon as you build a Warehouse, things go, for lack of a better word, wonky.
Whether it be the regular Warehouse, or the Expansion, excess goods are no longer dumped to bring the stockpile right back to the supposed limit. In both cases, the game will dump a (apparently) random amount of goods between 3 and 12, regardless of how far over the storage limit you actually are. If the Expansion is present, you receive some cash, and the amounts earned seem correct for the tiny amount of goods being sold, although I haven't calculated them exactly.
For a comparison example: In Col1, if I had three Master Tobacconists working a Cigar Factory, I would produce 48 Cigars a turn. Easily done with a trade route supplying Tobacco. If I didn't have a Customs' House selling the Cigars off though, or a ship picking them up for transport to Europe, then on the seventh turn, my colony would dump 36 Cigars. And it would continue to dump 48 Cigars every turn after that, until I got rid of the first 300.
My point is that with even modest, heck, poor, production in Civ4:Col, you can easily overtake the game dumping only ~6 of a good per turn. Warehouse limits are supposed to be limits, not suggestions. All the Civ games are about management, and limits are there to ensure you are forced to manage well. If the game doesn't impose a given limit properly, or to the fullest extent, then this is an oversight on the part pf the programmers. "Bug" may be debatable, because perhaps someone, somewhere, intended Warehouse storage limits to be implemented in this fashion, and a "bug" is defined as an unintended consequence. But if this implementation was deliberate, I can't for the life of me fathom why. I maintain that the Warehouse storage and dumping concepts are broken, and need correcting. I will grant you that losing only ~6 Guns in a given turn when a Wagon Train drops 100 off in a colony that already has 298 is a nice grace, but it is, nevertheless, a grace we should not be granted.
Now, to expand upon my previous post, and perhaps explain things a bit more clearly:
On the 'Normal' gamespeed (the one it turns out I was using) having no Warehouse is supposed to allow you to store 100 of a good. Constructing the Warehouse is supposed to up that storage to 200, and the Expansion allow 300. Epic would increase these limits to 150/300/450, and Marathon to 300/600/900. Now, although the limit appears to function properly when you have no Warehouse, and the game correctly dumps all goods in excess of 100 (on Normal), as soon as you build a Warehouse, things go, for lack of a better word, wonky.
Whether it be the regular Warehouse, or the Expansion, excess goods are no longer dumped to bring the stockpile right back to the supposed limit. In both cases, the game will dump a (apparently) random amount of goods between 3 and 12, regardless of how far over the storage limit you actually are. If the Expansion is present, you receive some cash, and the amounts earned seem correct for the tiny amount of goods being sold, although I haven't calculated them exactly.
For a comparison example: In Col1, if I had three Master Tobacconists working a Cigar Factory, I would produce 48 Cigars a turn. Easily done with a trade route supplying Tobacco. If I didn't have a Customs' House selling the Cigars off though, or a ship picking them up for transport to Europe, then on the seventh turn, my colony would dump 36 Cigars. And it would continue to dump 48 Cigars every turn after that, until I got rid of the first 300.
My point is that with even modest, heck, poor, production in Civ4:Col, you can easily overtake the game dumping only ~6 of a good per turn. Warehouse limits are supposed to be limits, not suggestions. All the Civ games are about management, and limits are there to ensure you are forced to manage well. If the game doesn't impose a given limit properly, or to the fullest extent, then this is an oversight on the part pf the programmers. "Bug" may be debatable, because perhaps someone, somewhere, intended Warehouse storage limits to be implemented in this fashion, and a "bug" is defined as an unintended consequence. But if this implementation was deliberate, I can't for the life of me fathom why. I maintain that the Warehouse storage and dumping concepts are broken, and need correcting. I will grant you that losing only ~6 Guns in a given turn when a Wagon Train drops 100 off in a colony that already has 298 is a nice grace, but it is, nevertheless, a grace we should not be granted.
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
It's called not punishing players too much if they forget to move their goods.
After all, you get message that there is an overflow only after you lose some goods.
Jeckel
Great Reverend
If you want to make the Storage Limit more strict there are two GlobalDefines that control it.
If you don't want any Yield kept above the Storage Limit, then set the first one, CITY_YIELD_DECAY_PERCENT, to 100 or the second one, MIN_CITY_YIELD_DECAY, to something super high like 50000. That will solve the problem. Its amazing how many of these "bugs" can be "fixed" with the change of a single number in a single xml file. Its why they gave us such an easyly modable game. Every one can have the game they want to play with the use of Notepad and the changing of a few numbers. It just takes a few minutes to look through files.
Code:
<Define>
<DefineName>CITY_YIELD_DECAY_PERCENT</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>10</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>
<Define>
<DefineName>MIN_CITY_YIELD_DECAY</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>5</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>If you don't want any Yield kept above the Storage Limit, then set the first one, CITY_YIELD_DECAY_PERCENT, to 100 or the second one, MIN_CITY_YIELD_DECAY, to something super high like 50000. That will solve the problem. Its amazing how many of these "bugs" can be "fixed" with the change of a single number in a single xml file. Its why they gave us such an easyly modable game. Every one can have the game they want to play with the use of Notepad and the changing of a few numbers. It just takes a few minutes to look through files.
Jeckel, you are a genius! Thank-you so much! I actually saw those tags, but couldn't figure out what they were. Like I said before (and Dale said again), "bug" is debatable, but for me, I will definately be changing those two values. Thanks again!
This patch is great... thank you!
Have you considered reducing the 'Boston Tea Party' effect?
I mean the effect when you turn down the king's desire to raise taxes, and your citizens throw out your current stores of the good that can no longer be traded with Europe.
It seems like a broken feature to me. I often feel like I have no choice but to just concede to whatever the king wants, because I can't afford to have my stored goods stolen
Have you considered reducing the 'Boston Tea Party' effect?
I mean the effect when you turn down the king's desire to raise taxes, and your citizens throw out your current stores of the good that can no longer be traded with Europe.
It seems like a broken feature to me. I often feel like I have no choice but to just concede to whatever the king wants, because I can't afford to have my stored goods stolen
Wodan
Deity
Don't build warehouses... build wagons instead.
Wagons are flexible. You can move them around to wherever they are currently needed. Or, you can simply "park" them and leave the goods inside.
You can make as many as you want, so you have effectively unlimited warehouse capability.
And, they aren't affected by "tea party" theft.
Wagons are flexible. You can move them around to wherever they are currently needed. Or, you can simply "park" them and leave the goods inside.
You can make as many as you want, so you have effectively unlimited warehouse capability.
And, they aren't affected by "tea party" theft.
Lord Shadow
General
It's not broken. It's been like that since the original. It's annoying sometimes, yes, but I'm not sure how it could be "fixed". How balanced would it be if the goods type was boycotted but your stores weren't discarded (or perhaps discarded in random amounts)? No clue.This patch is great... thank you!
Have you considered reducing the 'Boston Tea Party' effect?
I mean the effect when you turn down the king's desire to raise taxes, and your citizens throw out your current stores of the good that can no longer be traded with Europe.
It seems like a broken feature to me. I often feel like I have no choice but to just concede to whatever the king wants, because I can't afford to have my stored goods stolen
That said, it's probably a too fundamental feature to be touched by this mod.
Ah, that's a good idea, Wodan. Thanks.
It seems, though, like it adds some additional tedium, because the best strategy would be to frequently transfer goods from your cities to parked wagons, as the king can raise taxes at any time.
So it still sounds like a broken feature to me, though that work-around does limit its costs (for the player, but not for the AI).
It seems, though, like it adds some additional tedium, because the best strategy would be to frequently transfer goods from your cities to parked wagons, as the king can raise taxes at any time.
So it still sounds like a broken feature to me, though that work-around does limit its costs (for the player, but not for the AI).
Re: "How balanced would it be if the goods type was boycotted but your stores weren't discarded (or perhaps discarded in random amounts)?"
Perhaps this is a feature that could benefit from being cut in half, the same as the education time rate increase was?
The game gives the player the choice of either a tax increase or of losing the ability to trade a good with the Old World, but it seems like a broken choice because, though both options have significant costs, only one is generally viable. (Unless you use the exploit cited by Wodan).
Perhaps this is a feature that could benefit from being cut in half, the same as the education time rate increase was?
The game gives the player the choice of either a tax increase or of losing the ability to trade a good with the Old World, but it seems like a broken choice because, though both options have significant costs, only one is generally viable. (Unless you use the exploit cited by Wodan).
dalgo
Emperor
I have no problem with the 'boston tea party' effect itself, if you throw tea into the harbour it aint going to be very drinkable after that. However according to other posts it does not in fact avoid a tax increase, only postpones it. So you still get the same tax rise as well as losing your goods. That's not such a good result.
Lord Shadow
General
It has always postponed the increase. The tea parties were always meant to slow down the rise of taxes, not stop it permanently. The King will go on bugging you till you declare independence (at which point he moves on to punching you repeatedly in the face).
dalgo
Emperor
As I understand it though the trigger for the tax increases relates to the volume of goods traded. So when you reach that threshold you are due (at a random time) for a tax increase. Holding a tea party does not change that volume trigger, so you will still get the tax increase you thought you had avoided although it may be delayed.
