New Victorys; My Ideas(and others)

I saw these 2 ideas in a thread about new Victory ideas...

alpaca said:

I read an interesting suggestion in a German forum (civforum.de) by a girl with the nick of Polly about a victory condition dubbed "Loyal to the Crown". It was proposed that the player should be able to be granted titles and privileges by the king if he acts as a loyal servant to the crown. Eventually, when he gained the highest rank, he would win the game without a WoI. Furthermore, each rank could have specific bonuses, like free ships or units, lower taxes, and so on. This might be an interesting twist for a non-independence victory condition and tie in nicely with the call for representation of the colonies in the court. What does everyone think?

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This idea, I love!

Onionsoilder said:

That is not nessisarily a bad thing. Remember the chant used in the Boston Tea Party? "No taxation without representation!". Well, what ifthere was several ways to gain favor in the King's Court and get that represenatation? Some examples could be:

1) Religious Victory. Prove to your King that you deserve a voice in government by spreading the Faith. This could involve establishing Missions in native settlements and producing crosses.

2) Diplomatic Victory. Banjamin Franklin made many trips to Europe to convince various nobles that the English Colonies deserved more then they were getting. Perhaps you could train Ambassador units that can travel to Europe on your behalf, and certain FF could act as Great Ambassadors.

3) Economic Victory. Establish a colony so profitable, that other people want a piece of the pie. You could use your money and vast economic leverage to buy your way into the Parlament. After all, if your colony becomes profitable enough, the king would do whatever he had to to keep it.

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And personaly I like the idea of adding the Natives into the mix. Making an alliance with all other native tribes, keeping them all happy, then they joining you.

or the other side, killing ALL natives, but to do this, we would need to beef up the natives tribes abit, making them able to make weapons, new units ect.


Opinions?

I do like the Native Alliance. While it wouldn't make a good victory condition, perhaps natives would give you their cities and several units (instead of the cities just disappearing like they do now). Maybe after you forge an alliance with a native tribe, you can make whatever units they had. For example, you can make Braves and Armed Braves, complete with the forest and hill attack/defense they get.

As for beefing up the native tribes, what about:

Aztec: All units starts with Ranger.
Inca: All units start with Mountaineer.
Tupi: All units start with Looter and gain an extra 10% City Attack.
Iroquois: Gains 5 guns per city, per turn.
Cherokee: All units start with Skirmrisher.
Souix: Gains 5 horses per city, per turn.
Apache: All units start with Grenadier.

Am I missing any? I think that this would provide a small boost without overdoing it. Also, maybe after you ally with a tribe, you gain that tribe's ability?

Sounds like a good idea, but I don like the Iroquois idea tho alittle too overpowered IMO...


I have another idea to do with the Loyalty to the Crown/Diplomatic Victory, we should add more Founding Fathers, or add effects to each of them, to being Loyalist or Revolutionary, that way, it could add towards your favor with your King. IE; If you have all Loyalist, it would add to your favor with the King, you'd see it on screen when talking to him in the Diplo pop up, and vice versa...

Keeshi said:

Sounds like a good idea, but I don like the Iroquois idea tho alittle too overpowered IMO...

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Maybe reduce the amount? What if it was set down to 3 guns per city? I think the ability fits very well into the civilization though, as the Iroquois were well known for adopting European weaponry very quickly compared to other natives.

Keeshi said:

I have another idea to do with the Loyalty to the Crown/Diplomatic Victory, we should add more Founding Fathers, or add effects to each of them, to being Loyalist or Revolutionary, that way, it could add towards your favor with your King. IE; If you have all Loyalist, it would add to your favor with the King, you'd see it on screen when talking to him in the Diplo pop up, and vice versa...

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I don't like the idea of having penalties to the Founding Fathers. It seems somewhat counterproductive, and adds a deterrent to something that is already somewhat hard to get. Maybe Loyal FFs could add a diplomacy bonus with the King, which Revolutionaries would reduce the amount of Liberty Bells needed to advance in Rebel Sentiment? Also, maybe certain FFs would have degrees of loyalty/revolutionary spirit. For example, some ones like Smith would be extreme revolutionaries, while others like Cortez just plain wouldn't care, and would have minimal, if any, impact on the loyalty/revolutionary scale.

EDIT:
Maybe we could actually convert Liberty Bells into something different, but similar. Say, instead of generating Bells, instead we generated Colonial Standing. This Standing would essentially represent the prosperity of your colony. In a way, this works similar to Liberty Bells, because the more Colonial Standing you have, the better your colonists feel about their colony, and, in the end, how loyal they are to the colony versus the actual motherland country. On the opposite token however, the more Colonial Standing you have, the more impressed the King and other nobles in Europe are with your colony, and the more likely they are to grant your requests, including a voice in Parliament.

Alternatively, maybe Colonial Standing could by an accumulation of Liberty Bells, Crosses, Wealth, and whatever FFs you have attained.

Onionsoilder said:

I don't like the idea of having penalties to the Founding Fathers. It seems somewhat counterproductive, and adds a deterrent to something that is already somewhat hard to get. Maybe Loyal FFs could add a diplomacy bonus with the King, which Revolutionaries would reduce the amount of Liberty Bells needed to advance in Rebel Sentiment? Also, maybe certain FFs would have degrees of loyalty/revolutionary spirit. For example, some ones like Smith would be extreme revolutionaries, while others like Cortez just plain wouldn't care, and would have minimal, if any, impact on the loyalty/revolutionary scale.

EDIT:
Maybe we could actually convert Liberty Bells into something different, but similar. Say, instead of generating Bells, instead we generated Colonial Standing. This Standing would essentially represent the prosperity of your colony. In a way, this works similar to Liberty Bells, because the more Colonial Standing you have, the better your colonists feel about their colony, and, in the end, how loyal they are to the colony versus the actual motherland country. On the opposite token however, the more Colonial Standing you have, the more impressed the King and other nobles in Europe are with your colony, and the more likely they are to grant your requests, including a voice in Parliament.

Alternatively, maybe Colonial Standing could by an accumulation of Liberty Bells, Crosses, Wealth, and whatever FFs you have attained.

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No no no. No Negatives, They would only imporove your standing with the king, or produce more LB's(maybe hurt your standing with the king?)

Onionsoilder said:

As for beefing up the native tribes, what about:

Aztec: All units starts with Ranger.
Inca: All units start with Mountaineer.
Tupi: All units start with Looter and gain an extra 10% City Attack.
Iroquois: Gains 5 guns per city, per turn.
Cherokee: All units start with Skirmrisher.
Souix: Gains 5 horses per city, per turn.
Apache: All units start with Grenadier.

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This is a friggin' awesome idea.

After re-thinking, I like this idea "Maybe Loyal FFs could add a diplomacy bonus with the King, which Revolutionaries would reduce the amount of Liberty Bells needed to advance in Rebel Sentiment?"


Does anyone know how to change the victory conditions in Civ4:Col? Or a link talking about it, or anything?

Keeshi said:

After re-thinking, I like this idea "Maybe Loyal FFs could add a diplomacy bonus with the King, which Revolutionaries would reduce the amount of Liberty Bells needed to advance in Rebel Sentiment?"


Does anyone know how to change the victory conditions in Civ4:Col? Or a link talking about it, or anything?

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All victory conditions are defined in C:\Program Files\2K Games\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization IV Colonization\Assets\XML\GameInfo\Civ4VictoryInfo. If you make a copy of that file and add it to the CustomAssets folder, you can modify the existing victory conditions without messing up the core game files. As far as making new completely victory conditions, you would simply have to copy one of the existing ones and add in new defines, however, I'm not sure how to do that.

I've been pondering my own ideas on new win objectives, and I think an interesting scenario would be the adventures of the Spanish Conquistadors. I don't know how well it would work on a randomized map, but as a scenario you could traipse through the Native American lands on that Huge America map, gradually fighting tribes with the goal of finding El Dorado and sending back as much gold as you can to your king. The king would then provide you with troops, so as long as you kept getting cash...

Am I talkin' crazy with this idea, or would it actually interest someone? In either Col2 or Civ4.

Chris Stalis said:

I've been pondering my own ideas on new win objectives, and I think an interesting scenario would be the adventures of the Spanish Conquistadors. I don't know how well it would work on a randomized map, but as a scenario you could traipse through the Native American lands on that Huge America map, gradually fighting tribes with the goal of finding El Dorado and sending back as much gold as you can to your king. The king would then provide you with troops, so as long as you kept getting cash...

Am I talkin' crazy with this idea, or would it actually interest someone? In either Col2 or Civ4.

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It would be fun in Col2. Civ4 isn't really set up for it.

Agreed! I'm going to try playing with the files tonight to see what can be done... Wish me luck.

Ethan211 said:

This is a friggin' awesome idea.

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Originally Posted by Onionsoilder
As for beefing up the native tribes, what about:

Aztec: All units starts with Ranger.
Inca: All units start with Mountaineer.
Tupi: All units start with Looter and gain an extra 10% City Attack.
Iroquois: Gains 5 guns per city, per turn.
Cherokee: All units start with Skirmrisher.
Souix: Gains 5 horses per city, per turn.
Apache: All units start with Grenadier.

Great IDEAS OnionSoilder!!! Natives more involved is realistic for more fun. And give the Iroquois the 5 guns, it would make it tougher starting out with them. If they lived close by you HAD better make peace with them quick.

The different victory conditions (religious, diplomatic, economic), sounds like adding more diversity to a fun game. I would try it.

If you could personally control some braves from one tribe of natives by bribes or gifts, for the marauding or stealing from other Europeans and/or different native tribes without committing acts of war.

2nd maybe allow trappers to work outside the colonies >1. extra money from outside the colonies. >2. natives could raid them.

Hm, that might work, but how would the trappers make money outside the Colonies? Like they go to a 'furr' resorce and setup their own camp that gives off money??

Perhaps there could be a "dominion" victory for Canadians (and Kiwis and Aussies), support the king and join the motherland in every war and adventure. If you reach 67 or 75% sons of liberty and have enough brownie points you're granted dominion status.

Another option would be the Boer victory. At some point you can withdraw all your sons of liberty out of the cities, move to the heartland, establish new cities and fight off the king 50 years later.

gusi said:

Perhaps there could be a "dominion" victory for Canadians (and Kiwis and Aussies), support the king and join the motherland in every war and adventure. If you reach 67 or 75% sons of liberty and have enough brownie points you're granted dominion status.

Another option would be the Boer victory. At some point you can withdraw all your sons of liberty out of the cities, move to the heartland, establish new cities and fight off the king 50 years later.

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I like both ideas, but the 2nd one sounds good. Like it shows on the City screens how much % of the population of a city is in favor of Ind. So, When you do the 'Boer' option, that % of people, Turn into free settlers, lower the city population accordingly, and you go out on your own again, this time, having to fight an astablished 'king' army, insted of ships coming after you.

Someone suggested a "Commonwealth" victory. My thought is would it be too hard to mod that if you had 13 colonies all with over 50% rebel sentiment the King would just grant you a form of commonwealth independance thinking that you were too big to conquer. It's harder than you might think. Try it on normal speed.

davbenbak said:

Someone suggested a "Commonwealth" victory. My thought is would it be too hard to mod that if you had 13 colonies all with over 50% rebel sentiment the King would just grant you a form of commonwealth independance thinking that you were too big to conquer. It's harder than you might think. Try it on normal speed.

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That is similar to the Dominion Victory that has been flying around, and I must say, I like it a lot. However, instead of having it hardcoded at "X" colonies, it should be based on mapsize. Say, 7 on Duel, 13 on Standard, and 18 on Huge(This is after they fix the mapsizes of course)

The "Commonwealth" victory should also assure that you have somewhat decent relations with the King, since I don't think a fuming king would just grant you independance out of the blue.

UWHabs said:

The "Commonwealth" victory should also assure that you have somewhat decent relations with the King, since I don't think a fuming king would just grant you independance out of the blue.

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No, he wouldn't. I'm thinking of the Commonwealth victory as a hybrid between Domination, Independence and Loyalty.

Agreed. Keeping the King very happy, while spreading out huge, and wanting to expand past their 'parents' control.