Fifty
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Jeleen, you just keep insisting that knowledge does not require truth. You have to give us reasons to believe such a seemingly absurd thesis.
In ancient times religion was the only form of knowledge.
knowledge may be true for one period of time, yet become obsolete or evolve into another form of knowledge.--- One can call either of these truths (or forms of knowledge) "crazy" or "ridiculous"; however, this has no bearing on the fact that to many people such forms of knowledge (whether scientific or religious) hold truths they value above all else.
If I know the sky is blue, I don't have to believe it anymore.
Because God is in the area called "belief",
I'd say science has a better reason to claim the title of knowledge than religion.
But in essence the belief that the moon is made of green cheese is no different from the belief in the Holy Trinity, since neither consitutes a verifiable fact - which seems to be the essence of any religious belief system: the adherence to one or more statements that cannot be falsified or verified.
To return to the example: a statement as "Christianity is true" has no business in science, since it can neither be verified or falsified (it can't be tested).
It's not clear at all.I might repeat my previous post, but I think you're reading too much in what I write. (Regardless of the ultimate meaning of any words I use, I think what I write is quite clear.
Not obvious to me, I see no poetics. Can you kindly point to some poetics?Obviously it reflects personal ideas and, being used to forms of poetic expression, I may use words in onorthodox fashions.
I suggest moving on to another subject though. You mentioned not being moved by philosophy. So, you do not find 'Consolotation' in Boethius' words, reportedly written shortly before his life was ended? In addition, may I ask what is your opinion of Marcus Aurelius' Meditations?
I was reading some Hannah Arendt ("Between Past and Future"), and she argues that certain elements of theology distorted an original, more truthful idea of what free will and liberty are. Also the philosopher Plotinus is mentioned in the quote, so I thought it would be suitable to ask here.
A paraphrase of the essay (can't find it online) would be that she was discussing the conflict between free will and determinism. She argued that this is a non-issue, given that idea of liberty was taken out of context in the Western tradition, from originally a purely political aspect to a metaphysical one. She argues that no real discussion of free will took place in the history of great philosophy, from the pre-socratics to Plotinus, and that liberty as we think of it today (some inner, self-evaluative judgmental quality) really only appeared when people started talking about religious conversion (e.g. Augustine). So a real discussion of liberty, according to her, should not focus on whether people are atomistic individuals that are each individually "free" in some metaphysical sense, but should rather concern itself only with the way that people interact in society, that is to say, a civic liberty like Hume's, thus rendering the problem of determinism a non-issue. Any insight as to this? Was the theological influence on this topic really a distortion, as she puts it?
Furthermore, what do you think about this method that Arendt and other philosophers use (Nietzsche's genealogy comes to mind) to try to recover the "original" meanings of words? Is this somehow instructive beyond a merely descriptive context? Is it really an accusation to say that the concept that the Greeks or whoever else held of "liberty" or "the active life" have been "distorted"? It seems that proving alone that religious influence changed the concept of liberty in the Western tradition is somehow a normative claim that we should give some special credence to the original concept, when this to me is not clear (although the reasoning of the original stance strikes me as a better representation of what free will is).
Read the last 2 pages (can't sleep!) - Somewhat interesting exchange about the whole knowledge/belief confusion.. The back and forth regarding what the words actually mean wasn't really the interesting part - it was the tangents, mostly, that kept me interested..
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The Catholic Church also recognizes the importance of the Holy Spirit, but they do not have intense spiritual awakenings for everyday Chrisitians, whereas the Pentecostals and certain denominations of the Protestants(Im pretty sure you have heard of the Shakers, we usually dont count them) pray for 1~2hours a day in tongues.
Now the origins of Christianity as a Jewish sect cofuses me:
Did many Jews listen to the words of Y'shua and his disciples of the Gospel in a time when Rabbinic Judaism, Pharisees and the Seducees were well established?
Also I remember that Matthias Maccabee and his Dynasty(the Hasmonean Dynasty) had merged the role of the high priest and the king into one. Were the Maccabees really descendants from the Aaronic line?
If not, then that must have angered many conservative Jews at the time, right?