Turn Discussion Thread

Yeah I was gonna say NW for the second warrior. Certainly a decent spot for a city up there! With the crabs and a lighthouse it will have +5 suplus, which means it should be able to work both silver with slight growth.

Orion I vote SW, not too worried about animals to be honest... he has Combat I at least.

Where does the worker go next turn? 1NW to begin chopping?

Joshua368 said:

Orion I vote SW, not too worried about animals to be honest... he has Combat I at least.

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Risk is definately small, but why to take it? Warriors odds against barbs are lot better in the woods and we really aren't in a hurry.

Joshua368 said:

Where does the worker go next turn? 1NW to begin chopping?

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In my opinion yes. It should chop and mine the hill to get fifth good tile around saturn.

I think Orion should go 1 tile south since it reduces the chance of him being encountered by a barbarian (there's mountain tiles there). In addition, he has a combat I promotion so he will have greater odds in a fight with a 2-strength unit. My second choice would be 1 W on the forest.

A city located on the tile our warrior is currently on looks nice, even more so if the tile 2 E of the warrior is a grassland tile (for a grassland farm).

That being said, I do not want that northern warrior to keep exploring. He's done enough and we can see that we will want a city in the near future, but not right now (city #1 is for the horses, not the silver/crabs). I propose that we move him back to the capital starting with a SW move next turn. Anything could happen and Orion could get some bad luck out there. We can always send another warrior or immortal up there once we have the horses hooked up at a later date.

DMOC said:

That being said, I do not want that northern warrior to keep exploring. He's done enough and we can see that we will want a city in the near future, but not right now (city #1 is for the horses, not the silver/crabs). I propose that we move him back to the capital starting with a SW move next turn. Anything could happen and Orion could get some bad luck out there. We can always send another warrior or immortal up there once we have the horses hooked up at a later date.

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Agree with that, we dont want to risk some barb atack on our explorer so he would need to heal.

DMOC said:

I think Orion should go 1 tile south since it reduces the chance of him being encountered by a barbarian (there's mountain tiles there). In addition, he has a combat I promotion so he will have greater odds in a fight with a 2-strength unit. My second choice would be 1 W on the forest.

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I don't get it. There are 3 fogged tiles whether he moves SW or S, and SW reveals more blacked-out tiles. Makes far more sense to me to go SW or W than S.

Agreed with the northern Warrior heading back. Don't want to have barbarian troubles.

Ok. I'm convinced. Warrior should head back. I would fortify it to hills between Saturn and horse city.

For Orion SW is clearly better than S. I still vote for W.

Never mind what I said about Orion going 1 S, send him 1 SW instead. I was not looking at the fogged out tiles when I made that decision.

Orion and Warrior moved both to SW. Warrior didn't encounter anything new so I didn't take screenshot from the north. Worker was moved to forested grassland hill. Bronze working got ready. Started Mystisicm.

Next turn Worker starts to chop and warrior should probably continue SW. What do you think about Orion. Maybe SE?

I haven't got any support for collecting gold. The current plan would allow collecting 5 gold, but do I get any support for this idea?

If your plan does counts with it, and math is right, then i agree to have forest fire backup, so you have my vote (hope there is no catch in it)

I'm not a fan of lowering research just to gain money when the chances of actually getting it are so small. If it does not slow down the time needed to finish Priesthood, then yes, do so. But I think that collecting 5 gold would cost us a turn. Then again, I don't have the save to check.

It looks like the northern warrior should continue SW (should be obvious) and the southern warrior (Orion) should go SE. We should see some more floodplains near the horses in the next few turns.

Also, any news on demographics or the top 5 cities (not to see if wonders have been built since they haven't, but to see the population size of cities)? I know this information is relatively minor, but if we see that we are last in GNP by a huge margin, then it's time to worry about our enemies having 6 gems in their capitals.

Lastly, do we have a backup plan if we fail to get the Oracle? If this happens while we have 2 hours left on the timer, for instance, then we'd like to have one.

Err, any bronze?

I don't think so. I'm sure plako would have told us if there was copper.

By the way, it's copper, not bronze. (Little rant.)

Plako forgot a little something, which makes a certain city site incredibly attractive...

P.S. Yes, it's our only one in view.

DMOC said:

I'm not a fan of lowering research just to gain money when the chances of actually getting it are so small. If it does not slow down the time needed to finish Priesthood, then yes, do so. But I think that collecting 5 gold would cost us a turn. Then again, I don't have the save to check.

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We need to think beyond Priesthood I think - it would need to not slow down Writing as well. But either way, I'm not a big fan of lowering the research slider, because the odds are very low, the penalties are still severe (lost forest), and we might get a different event anyway (eg lost research).

DMOC said:

It looks like the northern warrior should continue SW (should be obvious) and the southern warrior (Orion) should go SE. We should see some more floodplains near the horses in the next few turns.

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Agreed with that.

DMOC said:

Also, any news on demographics or the top 5 cities (not to see if wonders have been built since they haven't, but to see the population size of cities)? I know this information is relatively minor, but if we see that we are last in GNP by a huge margin, then it's time to worry about our enemies having 6 gems in their capitals.

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Populations of rival capitals: 5, 5, 3, 3.

We're 4th in GNP, but in reality are higher than that (it's low because we're researching a tech without prerequisites, so there's no research bonus). (Our value: 26. Rival range: 25 to 34.)

MFG - 4th. Our value: 6. Rival range: 4 to 20!!! (Someone got given a very high hammer capital by the map maker... )

Crops - 4th. Our value: 15. Rival range: 11 to 21.

DMOC said:

Lastly, do we have a backup plan if we fail to get the Oracle? If this happens while we have 2 hours left on the timer, for instance, then we'd like to have one.

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Actually, I think we won't need one. I can't BELIEVE I neglected to notice this before, but... NONE of the religions have been founded yet. That means that there is NO possibility that anyone else is even close to Priesthood yet.

As an interesting side-note, we might just have a chance of ending up founding Buddhism completely by accident at this rate.

Sorry about forgetting copper. It was in my mind before I started the turn, but didn't remember to check it after the turn. Nevertheless copper/silver/crab city site is definately very appealing. Should we even consider planting it before horse city? It would provide more early commerce than the horse city and barbs can be handled with axemen. Main limiting factor is the growth rate and the fact that we'll first need monument and work boat to hook up the resources before we really can start to grow (lighthouse would also be very good to be able to grow using coastal tiles). Maybe some tests/calculations would be in order. If we decide to plant silver, before horse city warrior should turn around and check some of the fogged tiles around potential city site.

20 hammers? That is very high for 5 pop city. How is this even possible? Assuming 5 pop city it would had to provide an average 3,3 hammers in all (6) worked tiles. They also have at least 11 crops i.e. they aren't losing food and they even got decent research rate (25 is the minimum). There probably has to be something like bronze and cows in the BFC and they probably need at least 2 workers so they have been able to hook up all the hammer tiles at this point (This points to Joao or Pacal with faster workers). However Pacal seems to have lowest score so they probably have pop 3. Therefore Joao (Cavaleiros) is the main candidate to have hammer heavy capital (they also moved their settler, maybe to gain plains hill start). Cavaleiros need also some big food resource (pigs or corn), because they were able to grow very fast to size 5.

Most of you seem to be against collecting gold so I won't continue promoting it. This is just a minor detail and if we don't collect the gold we're more safe to get Priesthood on turn 54. Events are after all quite rare and there are several other possible ones than Forest fire.

I'm also suprised that all religions are still available. Should we even consider researching Polytheism, if Buddhism is founded within 4 turns? It would delay Priesthood probably 1 turn and therefore we would had to delay Worker 1 turn before it could head to improve horses, but we could get religion and I'm quite certain we can still get Oracle on turn 61.

Lord Parkin said:

Actually, I think we won't need one. I can't BELIEVE I neglected to notice this before, but... NONE of the religions have been founded yet. That means that there is NO possibility that anyone else is even close to Priesthood yet.

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I also think that failing to get Oracle wouldn't change much our plans. Of course this depends when the Oracle is built, but we probably get to start it before it is build somewhere. If Oracle goes when we're building it, I'd probably change production to Settler and continue researching Writing. After this we probably had to consider if we want to research Code of Laws or take something less expensive before it.

plako said:

Sorry about forgetting copper. It was in my mind before I started the turn, but didn't remember to check it after the turn. Nevertheless copper/silver/crab city site is definately very appealing. Should we even consider planting it before horse city? It would provide more early commerce than the horse city and barbs can be handled with axemen. Main limiting factor is the growth rate and the fact that we'll first need monument and work boat to hook up the resources before we really can start to grow (lighthouse would also be very good to be able to grow using coastal tiles). Maybe some tests/calculations would be in order. If we decide to plant silver, before horse city warrior should turn around and check some of the fogged tiles around potential city site.

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Immortals would be more valuable than Axemen for the moment, I think. Also, the coastal city would require a border expansion to access the Copper. This means that it would take longer to hook up Copper than Horses, even though we wouldn't need to build a road to the city (just research Sailing).

No, I think we should still go for the Horses first.

plako said:

20 hammers? That is very high for 5 pop city. How is this even possible? Assuming 5 pop city it would had to provide an average 3,3 hammers in all (6) worked tiles. They also have at least 11 crops i.e. they aren't losing food and they even got decent research rate (25 is the minimum). There probably has to be something like bronze and cows in the BFC and they probably need at least 2 workers so they have been able to hook up all the hammer tiles at this point (This points to Joao or Pacal with faster workers). However Pacal seems to have lowest score so they probably have pop 3. Therefore Joao (Cavaleiros) is the main candidate to have hammer heavy capital (they also moved their settler, maybe to gain plains hill start). Cavaleiros need also some big food resource (pigs or corn), because they were able to grow very fast to size 5.

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Yeah, I can't work it out either. Are bonus multipliers factored into the hammer calculation? (For instance, if an Imperialistic civ builds a Settler, does their hammer count go up in the demographics screen?)

plako said:

I'm also suprised that all religions are still available. Should we even consider researching Polytheism, if Buddhism is founded within 4 turns? It would delay Priesthood probably 1 turn and therefore we would had to delay Worker 1 turn before it could head to improve horses, but we could get religion and I'm quite certain we can still get Oracle on turn 61.

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Yeah, if Buddhism goes in the next 4 turns, I think it's more than sensible to switch to Polytheism instead of Meditation. May as well go for a double-whammy with the religions. It'll be great to have two shrines to go with the Great Prophet points from the Oracle, too.

Lord Parkin said:

Immortals would be more valuable than Axemen for the moment, I think. Also, the coastal city would require a border expansion to access the Copper. This means that it would take longer to hook up Copper than Horses, even though we wouldn't need to build a road to the city (just research Sailing).

No, I think we should still go for the Horses first.

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I agree that Immortals would be more valuable because of their better movement. I'm also voting for the original plan at the moment. However copper can be hooked about the same time as horses, if the city is placed as DMOC suggested NW from the copper.

Silver city would have largest impact on our economy now and the value of this city will be relatively lower the longer we wait to found it. Main problem of the city is that with current visible food resources we can only work 2 land tiles regularily from 3 good ones (copper+2*silver). Of course with micromananagement and lighthouse we could work the copper tile at least half of the time.

plako said:

I agree that Immortals would be more valuable because of their better movement. I'm also voting for the original plan at the moment. However copper can be hooked about the same time as horses, if the city is placed as DMOC suggested NW from the copper.

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We need to know whether there are any food resources in the vicinity first. If not, that'd be one useless city...

Lord Parkin said:

We need to know whether there are any food
resources in the vicinity first. If not, that'd be one useless city...

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After further consideration Horse city is a lot better. However I wouldn't call silver city useless, even with information currently available. Also flood plains city is also probably higher in priority than silver city so that we can its cottages worked. However this could be our 4th city so that we can increase the max population in our cities and possibly we've also Sailing researched so that Lighthouse could be built to raise the population fast before concentrating on working silver tiles.

Main advantages of the Horse city are better production and versatile potential. At the moment it seems our best place for Great person farm (hopefully there comes better alternatives later), but it also has decent production. Alternatively this could be used also as commerce city from the start by cottaging the flood plains. Better production supports also getting our barb defense and scouting power earlier/bigger.