[BtS] JDiplomacy: More Diplomatic Options

I just can't stop modding!

I've been thinking about this for a year or so now. I had completly abandoned this project as impossable outside the exe, but after looking at the Slavery code in Dom Pedro II's Conqueror's Delight Mod I now know how to accomplish most of what I want to do. Thanx DPII.


My general idea for this mod is to add new diplomatic options. I am taking a perticular interest in Human <-> Human and Human -> AI interactions.

In more specific terms, I plan to update the rules about trading Permanent Alliances and Vassalage. Take out some of the restrictions on when the Human can do it, especially with other Humans. I also plan to do a major rework on the concept of Map Trading, but I won't say anything specific on that till I get the code working.

I have quite a few more things I plan to do, but I don't want to ruin all the suprise. I will say, I have the first new option working, Military Alliance, works like Defensive Pacts, except you join all wars your Military Ally enters and it must be manually canceled. I've attached some ScreenShots to this post showing the new Military Alliance Trade Item in various ways.

This mod is a long way off from release, but I am steadally working on it, but I was wondering what sort of new Trade Items and other changes to Diplomacy can you guys think of?

This thread is all about bouncing ideas around, so feel free to post any suggestions, never know what might spark the next great change to the code.

Pay an AI to vote the way you want to in a future vote of a council you're both member of?[/SMAC]

I like the idea in your posted pics of tri-lateral and bi-lateral military alliances. I wouldn't erase the vanilla, "Declare war on the X's" though. From a game balance perspective, a bilateral military alliance as you describe is carte blanche to declare war and a have a free buddy. It's almost as powerful as having a vassal, and possibly more so since the vassal can be potentially more powerful than you. Because of that I'd still keep the "Declare war on X's" as the cheapest option to negotiate for.

I'd also consider putting tech limits on the different options. The default Declare war option comes with Writing, and perhaps the bilateral alliance can come with Writing+Code of Laws? The trilateral alliance reminds me of NATO, the UN, et al. I'd suggest it come with Mass Media. Though I guess you are keeping the tech requirements for MAs from the vanilla game.


Other:

I like in 4X games when the absolute negotiable value isn't known, so the bidder almost always has to over bid, and underbidding too many times causes the deal to be canceled. I think the AI and Humans should both be susceptible to this.

I like in GalCiv2 how the trades don't have to be bilateral all the time, unlike Civ4. E.g. trade one's civ's open border, unreciprocated for say just gold. That is one-side trade routes and military access.

Maniac said:

Pay an AI to vote the way you want to in a future vote of a council you're both member of?[/SMAC]

Click to expand...

I've already been working on this for an upcoming modcomp release

EDIT: The thing about multi-lateral agreements is that it's going to require a bit more than the standard deal system. You'll presumably have to create what is essentially a second tier of teams to store relevant information. So I guess you'll have to be able to break or modify the treaty with any one of the parties?

I'm having a look at how vassals can be tweaked to become less a nag when you want to quit them. After all, they seem to spy on you and sometimes you just regret a logical decision from the past. I found some stuff in GlobalDefines.xml but where is all the rest concerning diplomacy hidden?

Dom Pedro II said:

The thing about multi-lateral agreements is that it's going to require a bit more than the standard deal system. You'll presumably have to create what is essentially a second tier of teams to store relevant information. So I guess you'll have to be able to break or modify the treaty with any one of the parties?

Click to expand...

I don't plan any new Multi-lateral Military Alliance trade option, but if Player A and Player B have a Military Alliance with each other, and one of them trys to trade a Military Alliance with Player C, then Player C will take that into acount, kinda understanding that the three of them will then form a sort of "Multi-lateral Military Alliance".

I'm planning to remove the hard coded limit of 1 Permanent Alliance and replace it with that same basic decision code (slightly tweaked ofcourse). So that the AI will accual know how to decide if it wants to join larger Teams.

Hyronymus said:

I'm having a look at how vassals can be tweaked to become less a nag when you want to quit them. After all, they seem to spy on you and sometimes you just regret a logical decision from the past. I found some stuff in GlobalDefines.xml but where is all the rest concerning diplomacy hidden?

Click to expand...

The diplomatic code is in the SDK.

Jeckel said:

The diplomatic code is in the SDK.

Click to expand...

Hmm, I think I leave it there then. 100% clueless how to edit that for home-use . But thanks for the answer.

This looks quite promising.


Could you remove the requirement that 2 civ must have shared a Defensive Pact or War for a certain length of time before considering a Permanent Alliance? I've always found that very annoying.

Also, can you make the numerical opinion towards leaders matter more and the "pleased," "caution," etc., attitudes less? I would prefer a more continuous range of how willing they are to trade, less abrupt steps. A civ with a +90 opinion towards you should be willing to give you a lot more than one with +7, even if both only count as "Friendly."





Also, when can I convince you to merge this, JCultureControl, JCityLimit, JImprovementLimit, etc., with FfH?

I don't know how much I would tweak existing systems in this mod, but I'll think on your requests.

As for merging mods with FfH, never going to happen. Its a great mod and total props to Kael and his team for making it, but I don't play it so I don't mod it.

As for merging my mods together, that might happen as it is on my todo list, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Merging is one of the most tedious and unfun kinds of modding to me so it tends to always get pushed behind accual coding when I'm deciding what to work on next.

Great idea!

Maybe you could add a new option such as "Could you give us some compensation" when an AI make an arrogant demand on you? I have already get tired of the AI's countless arrogant demands

We want to include improved diplomatic options in our world 2009 mod, but no one from our team has had the time to start looking into doing them yet. Military Alliances as you described is a key one that we'd like to have.

If you can get the functions you have come up with working, we would love to merge your mod into ours.

Would there be any way of setting your own attitudes towards other civs, this would at least allow you some control over diplomacy. I.E. Montezuma sends you a request for an exchange of World Maps, you get a pop up box to set the tone of your responce from a polite refusal which could improve the relations with Montezuma to a hostile refusal designed to provoke a war.

Probably a lot more complicated to introduce this than it is to talk about it lol