Well, eventually you starve Bibracte out by surrounding with French culture - or Boudica goes to war. In my games, Bibracte shrinks to 1 pop because it is working no tiles other than the city tile. Maybe for maintenance reasons, the number of troups there reduces, I don't know if she disbands them or just sends them away. But it does flip eventually.
King of the World #10: Charles de Gaulle
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
BakingTheArt
His Evening Coat
Eventually - but if I remember correctly, if the city has more than 5 units in there, the chances of it flipping will be <1%. You are right, though - if Bibracte can't work any other tiles, that's a grand total of 1 commerce, which is enough to keep maybe two or three units around without striking. If that doesn't happen, though, you can bribe Rome into attacking them, and you could probably flip the Roman city easily.
pianoman1242
Beast
Don't forget the palace with 8 commerce.
BakingTheArt
His Evening Coat
Oh, right. So that will support a moderately big army, big enough to defend itself from culture flips. So, therefore, bribing Rome is a better bet to get at least one culture "kill".
EDIT: Of course, that's if you want the pride of getting a culture "kill" (However much a mislabel that is, if Rome kills it and you destroy it with your culture. A better and quicker idea would just be to kill it outright with your own army.
EDIT: Of course, that's if you want the pride of getting a culture "kill" (However much a mislabel that is, if Rome kills it and you destroy it with your culture. A better and quicker idea would just be to kill it outright with your own army.
JammerUno
King
It's the sum of the power of the units compared with the pop of the city. At pop 1, with some troops in there, it will be hard to flip. Even if it's reduced to 1% though, there's a good chance it will flip in the medium to long term.
In any case, taking care of a 1 city, 1 tile empire won't be much of a hassle anyway, so there's always that option.
In any case, taking care of a 1 city, 1 tile empire won't be much of a hassle anyway, so there's always that option.
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
Great Merchants aren't less desirable, the +1 food and 6 gold from settling, boosted by 100% (assuming you can't fit in wall street), gives +1 food and +12 gold.
The Extra food, with 2 settled is one more specialist, or another population point. Great Artists, give +3 gold settled, and are useful for a golden age.
Of course the settled Great Scientists, Engineers and Profits are the best, but all have uses.
I love settled Merchants for the +1 food alone, Gold is a nice bonus.
The Extra food, with 2 settled is one more specialist, or another population point. Great Artists, give +3 gold settled, and are useful for a golden age.
Of course the settled Great Scientists, Engineers and Profits are the best, but all have uses.
I love settled Merchants for the +1 food alone, Gold is a nice bonus.
Wall street is no good option in OCC. 90% of raw commerce (I mean beakers + gold) is beakers so wall street doesn't do much anyway.
GMs are nice but 1 food isn't so much. Think of it as an additional health resource like cow (doubled only with a supermarket) until you have the NP.
Who uses Golden Ages in OCC?????
GMs are nice but 1 food isn't so much. Think of it as an additional health resource like cow (doubled only with a supermarket) until you have the NP.
Who uses Golden Ages in OCC?????
JammerUno
King
Great merchants are awesome. When you reach the NP, two GMs (6 bpt, 12 gpt) let you run another specialist (scientist, 6 bpt, 1 hpt, 3GPP). That, in my book, makes them superior to GS at that point. Two GS will give 18 beakers and 2 hammers, two GM will give 12 beakers, 1 hammer, 12 gold and 3 GPP.
I often try to get 4 or 5 early ones with CS when playing OCC; the gold is useful for trading, the food will benefit you the rest of the game. The vastly increased growthrate will even enable abusive whipping/drafting after the GT, which always comes in handy.
I often try to get 4 or 5 early ones with CS when playing OCC; the gold is useful for trading, the food will benefit you the rest of the game. The vastly increased growthrate will even enable abusive whipping/drafting after the GT, which always comes in handy.
Matthew5117
Emperor
2 food supports only one population...
Joshua368
Warmongering builder
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2008
- Messages
- 3,072
Settled great scientists do...
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
Hey, Great Merchants are all about the food, and the gold, 2 merchants = 2 food + 12 gold +6 beakers, running slider at 100% that's 18 beakers/turn and 2 food, supports one more population point.
If that pay's for the the Engineer specialist, 2 hammers , 3 beakers that's a net benefit of 9 beakers, 2 hammers @ 100% science. Factor in the Science boosters of 260% and gold boosters of 100% its now, and production modifiers max 250%.
23.4 Beakers/turn +
24 gold/turn
(+100%) Ironworks with iron + coal
(+50%) Bureaucracy
(+50%) Power
(+25%) Factory
(+25%) Forge
(+250%) Grand total
Hammers 250%
2*250%=5 hammers
Sum total of 23.4 Beakers and 5 hammers
If that pay's for the the Engineer specialist, 2 hammers , 3 beakers that's a net benefit of 9 beakers, 2 hammers @ 100% science. Factor in the Science boosters of 260% and gold boosters of 100% its now, and production modifiers max 250%.
23.4 Beakers/turn +
24 gold/turn
(+100%) Ironworks with iron + coal
(+50%) Bureaucracy
(+50%) Power
(+25%) Factory
(+25%) Forge
(+250%) Grand total
Hammers 250%
2*250%=5 hammers
Sum total of 23.4 Beakers and 5 hammers
In this round, we shake our fists in impotent rage from the gates of Paris.
Things began innocently enough. The world erupted in war and alliances, as it usually does around this time:
Shaka's not a very popular guy on this map. Shocker.
I also made a couple ill-advised trades to get back to tech parity:
Check out Charlemagne. He is having some sort of freak-out vision quest, there. But I figure these techs (with the possible exception of Drama) are hefty enough to be worth trading for. And I can justify Drama in that I want to get started on the Globe, but I don't want to delay Education. Needless to say, I immediately channeled my funds into upgrading my Warriors, Axemen, and Archers to Medieval State of the Art.
I also made some long-delayed Health resource trades:
I gotta say, I'm getting more and more tempted to build the National Park as one of my five National Wonders, Ironworks be damned.
I also got roped into a phony war:
I never thought I'd see the day when I'm siding with the scheming Khmer against the friendly, noble Egyptians. Religious politics makes for strange bedfellows...
Meanwhile, Africa was in turmoil. In 415, the Mali capital of Timbuktu fell to Shaka and, 30 years later...
We may have had it rough while playing Mansa Musa back in the day, but things were never THAT rough... You can also see that the Globe Theater and Education are right around the corner.
Of course, lest anyone think that I'm a tech-swapping fool, accepting any and all offers:
... Sorry, old boy. Hate to send you off disappointed, but, um, that's just not gonna cut it.
A couple of things are going on in this next screenshot:
First off, you can see that the world is going Hindu, and fast. Unless a missionary decides to visit Paris for some weird reason, I may need to adopt Free Religion just to fend off charges of heresy. Not good. You can also see that Charlemagne's vassal experiment was short-lived. Bismarck probably wasn't that good of a master, anyway. He looks like he smells bad. *shudder* Finally, Bibracte has been fully enveloped by French culture. It's only a matter of time now...
I learned that our fake war with Egypt wasn't quite as fake as I'd thought:
Aaaah! And we don't even have Engineering to build Pikemen (Germany does, though, and my Spy is in there with full Espionage backing to see if he can steal it. It's slow going, though). Not that I'm afraid afraid. I just don't want them burning too much of our slow-to-replace farmlands.
Thankfully, Ramesses was just as apprehensive about war as we were. He just wanted about tree fitty:
Which I guess translates into 45 gold. So, uh, you'll leave me alone for 45 gold? And you won't even trample a field or two first? Sign me up!
As the arts and sciences bloomed in western Europe, war and chaos raged in the east:
Ouch. Somehow, it was the Byzantines who founded Ireland this game (Don't ask me), so now Justinian is stuck out there with the leprechauns and the beer. Don't forget the beer...
In fact, Mao became quite the beast in this round, winning the allegiance of a broken Byzantium and the proud Sumerians.
In 685, we suffered yet another declaration of war:
Along with some party-favor troops. Axes and Spears? Great! I might even earn a Great General to settle down on the Champs Elysee.
Sadly, it was like a bad video game. Those were just the level 1 troops. The Berserkers were right behind:
But I did win the Liberalism race and took Nationalism!
By 805, with the help of a Suicide Catapult and a quick sallying forth by my Paris garrison, Ragnar's forces were in shambles and I had a few new Great People to find homes for:
Ragnar still refuses to talk to me, but at least he's no longer threatening to end me.
In 820, I got a very strange message:
"Cancelling Open Borders? That bi-... Oh. Poor Boudica. May she rest in peace." I imagine that the visual of what happened to Bibracte was like French culture advancing like a Dr. Manhattan blast wave. Thwoomp!
Germany, meanwhile, has been busy in its "foreign renovation projects":
The world powers seem to be shaping up to be Bismarck and Mao. And, of course, whoever comes out on top of that mess over in the New World.
So I wrapped things up there and called it a round. Here's a peek at Europe:
As you can see, Constantinople isn't doing too well as a Chinese possession, so that's a plus, I guess. You can also see that Amsterdam, London, and Berlin are all starting to feel the burn.
Paris itself:
Our garrison is pretty weak right now, and our Worker died in the fighting. I'm thinking I'll finish the Taj for the Golden Age and then rebuild. Hopefuly Ragnar doesn't come by with a new stack in the meantime...
The always fun 34 Civ diplomacy screen:
Boggles the mind, don't it?
And a look at the Tech screen:
My Spy can steal Theology or Horseback Riding from Bismarck right now, but I'm holding out for Guilds or Engineering.
So what do you all think? Ragnar refuses to talk to me, which probably means that he has another stack on the way. Should I delay the Taj to refortify? I also need a Worker to build that last Farm and maybe to build a Fort over in England to collect those resources. But that can wait. Should I just grab HBR from Bismarck and be done with it? It's feeling like it'll take forever before I have enough Espionage to steal a real tech. And what of Civics? Should I jump into Free Religion just to duck the wrath of the growing Hindu bloc? I hate to admit it, but I'm feeling pretty lost here.
Here's the save:
Things began innocently enough. The world erupted in war and alliances, as it usually does around this time:
Shaka's not a very popular guy on this map. Shocker.
I also made a couple ill-advised trades to get back to tech parity:
Check out Charlemagne. He is having some sort of freak-out vision quest, there. But I figure these techs (with the possible exception of Drama) are hefty enough to be worth trading for. And I can justify Drama in that I want to get started on the Globe, but I don't want to delay Education. Needless to say, I immediately channeled my funds into upgrading my Warriors, Axemen, and Archers to Medieval State of the Art.
I also made some long-delayed Health resource trades:
I gotta say, I'm getting more and more tempted to build the National Park as one of my five National Wonders, Ironworks be damned.
I also got roped into a phony war:
I never thought I'd see the day when I'm siding with the scheming Khmer against the friendly, noble Egyptians. Religious politics makes for strange bedfellows...
Meanwhile, Africa was in turmoil. In 415, the Mali capital of Timbuktu fell to Shaka and, 30 years later...
We may have had it rough while playing Mansa Musa back in the day, but things were never THAT rough... You can also see that the Globe Theater and Education are right around the corner.
Of course, lest anyone think that I'm a tech-swapping fool, accepting any and all offers:
... Sorry, old boy. Hate to send you off disappointed, but, um, that's just not gonna cut it.
A couple of things are going on in this next screenshot:
First off, you can see that the world is going Hindu, and fast. Unless a missionary decides to visit Paris for some weird reason, I may need to adopt Free Religion just to fend off charges of heresy. Not good. You can also see that Charlemagne's vassal experiment was short-lived. Bismarck probably wasn't that good of a master, anyway. He looks like he smells bad. *shudder* Finally, Bibracte has been fully enveloped by French culture. It's only a matter of time now...
I learned that our fake war with Egypt wasn't quite as fake as I'd thought:
Aaaah! And we don't even have Engineering to build Pikemen (Germany does, though, and my Spy is in there with full Espionage backing to see if he can steal it. It's slow going, though). Not that I'm afraid afraid. I just don't want them burning too much of our slow-to-replace farmlands.
Thankfully, Ramesses was just as apprehensive about war as we were. He just wanted about tree fitty:
Which I guess translates into 45 gold. So, uh, you'll leave me alone for 45 gold? And you won't even trample a field or two first? Sign me up!
As the arts and sciences bloomed in western Europe, war and chaos raged in the east:
Ouch. Somehow, it was the Byzantines who founded Ireland this game (Don't ask me), so now Justinian is stuck out there with the leprechauns and the beer. Don't forget the beer...
In fact, Mao became quite the beast in this round, winning the allegiance of a broken Byzantium and the proud Sumerians.
In 685, we suffered yet another declaration of war:
Along with some party-favor troops. Axes and Spears? Great! I might even earn a Great General to settle down on the Champs Elysee.
Sadly, it was like a bad video game. Those were just the level 1 troops. The Berserkers were right behind:
But I did win the Liberalism race and took Nationalism!
By 805, with the help of a Suicide Catapult and a quick sallying forth by my Paris garrison, Ragnar's forces were in shambles and I had a few new Great People to find homes for:
Ragnar still refuses to talk to me, but at least he's no longer threatening to end me.
In 820, I got a very strange message:
"Cancelling Open Borders? That bi-... Oh. Poor Boudica. May she rest in peace." I imagine that the visual of what happened to Bibracte was like French culture advancing like a Dr. Manhattan blast wave. Thwoomp!
Germany, meanwhile, has been busy in its "foreign renovation projects":
The world powers seem to be shaping up to be Bismarck and Mao. And, of course, whoever comes out on top of that mess over in the New World.
So I wrapped things up there and called it a round. Here's a peek at Europe:
As you can see, Constantinople isn't doing too well as a Chinese possession, so that's a plus, I guess. You can also see that Amsterdam, London, and Berlin are all starting to feel the burn.
Paris itself:
Our garrison is pretty weak right now, and our Worker died in the fighting. I'm thinking I'll finish the Taj for the Golden Age and then rebuild. Hopefuly Ragnar doesn't come by with a new stack in the meantime...
The always fun 34 Civ diplomacy screen:
Boggles the mind, don't it?
And a look at the Tech screen:
My Spy can steal Theology or Horseback Riding from Bismarck right now, but I'm holding out for Guilds or Engineering.
So what do you all think? Ragnar refuses to talk to me, which probably means that he has another stack on the way. Should I delay the Taj to refortify? I also need a Worker to build that last Farm and maybe to build a Fort over in England to collect those resources. But that can wait. Should I just grab HBR from Bismarck and be done with it? It's feeling like it'll take forever before I have enough Espionage to steal a real tech. And what of Civics? Should I jump into Free Religion just to duck the wrath of the growing Hindu bloc? I hate to admit it, but I'm feeling pretty lost here.
Here's the save:
Sciguy001
CiV Great Scientist (duh)
Only 32 civs left to go for your conquest victory!
capnvonbaron
Democratia gladii
Deep in the middle ages, the little-known Celtic town of Bibracte, located in the hilly French countryside, mysteriously disappeared off the map. It is fabled that Boudica, enraged by her children speaking with thick french accents and greedily consuming croissants, goat cheese, and copious quantities of wine, ordered her bastard populace to return to the Celtic ways or else remove themselves from the town of Bibracte. The unhappy children, while sneering and laughing at her in a very frog-like manner, tore the town apart brick by brick and headed north toward the shining lights of Paris.
Boudica, alone and distraught by the betrayal by her children, for whom she loved and cared since the dawn of time, then took her own life. The jilted matriarch climbed the sacred North Peaks that the Celtic elders worshipped in the generations before, to the Cliff of Echos, where she slit her own neck and threw herself over the edge to the valley floor over 1000 feet below. It is rumored that citizens in the valley below heard a faint but clear voice resonate from the mountains; it is believed that as Boudica held the knife to her throat, she shouted to the gods: "RI-CO-LAA!" -- a phrase from the ancient Celtic tongue that loosely translates to "ease my pain"
Boudica, alone and distraught by the betrayal by her children, for whom she loved and cared since the dawn of time, then took her own life. The jilted matriarch climbed the sacred North Peaks that the Celtic elders worshipped in the generations before, to the Cliff of Echos, where she slit her own neck and threw herself over the edge to the valley floor over 1000 feet below. It is rumored that citizens in the valley below heard a faint but clear voice resonate from the mountains; it is believed that as Boudica held the knife to her throat, she shouted to the gods: "RI-CO-LAA!" -- a phrase from the ancient Celtic tongue that loosely translates to "ease my pain"
Nobody's too close to nationalism, so I might think about holding off. It'd be good to time it with a civics switch, if there was any you need to do. I guess the only one coming up soon will be free market, probably, and that'd still be a ways away. Get the worker first, then finish up the Taj is my idea.
Otherwise, I'd wait and see how your health looks one you get rid of Berlin, Amsterdam, and London (not sure if you get other health resources from there), and once you start laying down factories. Between factory, power, and industrial parks, that ends up with a lot of unhealthiness.
Hmm, one thing you could consider is steal theology, finish the taj, and switch to theocracy. Build a bunch of troops with the extra XP, and then switch back to something else (pacifism?) at the end of the golden age. If you really want to sneak in other stuff, you can even do a lot of pre-building troops, so you can pump out 4-5 of them within the first few turns of the golden age. Could help you reinforce a bit to survive another wave of Ragnar coming after you, or whoever else decides to try to pick on you (since it seems like you're into that medieval war period of the game).
Otherwise, I'd wait and see how your health looks one you get rid of Berlin, Amsterdam, and London (not sure if you get other health resources from there), and once you start laying down factories. Between factory, power, and industrial parks, that ends up with a lot of unhealthiness.
Hmm, one thing you could consider is steal theology, finish the taj, and switch to theocracy. Build a bunch of troops with the extra XP, and then switch back to something else (pacifism?) at the end of the golden age. If you really want to sneak in other stuff, you can even do a lot of pre-building troops, so you can pump out 4-5 of them within the first few turns of the golden age. Could help you reinforce a bit to survive another wave of Ragnar coming after you, or whoever else decides to try to pick on you (since it seems like you're into that medieval war period of the game).
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