King of the World #12: Sitting Bull

If you are immediately going for optics, I would build a trireme on the East and West Coast of NAm (in Brave and Laker) so you can upgrade them to caravels to start exploring ASAP.

Hopefully you will be able to make some trades with the Eurasian/Africa civs with Optics to catch up.

EDIT: Can you find a good Alaska site that would allow you to get trade routes with Asian civs by bridging the ocean tiles with your cultural boundaries? Then you can get non-symmetrical trade routes with those Asian civs to increase your commerce (and hopefully improve your tech rate too!).
 
One of the caribbean islands has spices, I think? Maybe worth settling to get intercontinental trade routes and a resource. What's going on in South America?

GA+trade for Monarchy+civics switch makes sense to me. You'll get the basic infrastructure up much quicker in the newer cities and recover your economy rapidly. Plus getting to optics faster means more chance to meet eurasian civs before they've discovered it. Once you get to optics and before you meet other civs, I'd consider switching off research and either banking espionage against pacal, or building up wealth to run deficit research later. No point in putting beakers towards easy trade-bait.
 
Scout Pacal's lands, he might be an easy target, and there's no point in keeping him around after you meet more people to trade with. A GA seems like a decent plan, it's very probable you can get a GS is it if you run enough scientists in Hawkeye with CS and monarchy. You can use the GA to pump out some Xbows and LBs for the happiness cap and sprint to optics.

Also, it seems you are a bit short on workers.
 
I would say use the GP for a GA whenever you decide that GA is best. I'd also do the trade (perhaps see if a turn of research into animal husbandry will make Pacal willing to switch out the 45 gold for AH).
 
Agree, make the trade and settle the prophet...

and learn to do BINARY RESEARCH! :please:
 
Once you get some of the smaller religious techs, the Prophet will be able to bulb Theology. I realize that Pacal has already discovered it, but perhaps some of Eurasia has not and that could allow for more trade bait.... I like to save my one GP golden ages until later in the game, but with Philo and a decent sized empire for the time period one could hardly fault you for a GA now...

With currency on board, I like the idea of settling one of the islands around for the extra bit of trade - and it'd be nice to beat Pacal to them.
 
Agree with Kev, once Christianism is gone, the AIs are not going for Theocracy too much, but it has a quite good trade value and is not too dangerous to trade (while trading optics is asking for someone to beat you to Astro).

Depending on your EPs, you could try to steal the smaller religious techs from Pacal (to bulb Theo) while researching Optics
 
The Spy returned to Cahokia with a small spinning-toy snatched from a noble child's playroom. It was a mere bauble, but from its intricate inner workings the scholars of Green Wave were able to extrapolate the secrets of Machinery.

Priceless. :lol:

Anyways, I think you should take the trade, then use a GA to switch civics as needed. You could definitely use the happiness bonuses. Keep it up, land certainly does mean more power in the long run. Besides, with all that production capability you have, you could easily.. 'borrow' some of Pacal's land. :satan:
 
I vote for trade + GA. Speed up optics and set sail! Your chances of reverse colonization are really going to hinge on 'first impressions': You can count on being backwards in many respects compared to the old world, so you need to show up with something to trade. You are the king of tech brokering, so I am sure as long as you get a foothold in the trading game, you will get like 6 techs for every one you bring to the table.

Along those lines, have a trireme and scout ready on both coasts before you hit optics. Also, take some cash along. Gifting gold on first meeting will often bump AIs from cautious to friendly and increase your trade opportunities.
 
Pacal's capital... OMG, an espionage heaven! Close by, same religion, trade routes, that can really change things. Take advantage of that city as much as possible.

With Optics for Habours and Currency for trade routes, it would make sense to scout Pacal's lands though right?
 
Regarding Maple Leaf, beh. Its not the exact location we're dealing with here, its the regional fan base. Really, many of those cities are a tile or two off their IRL marks.

Its really interesting to see you doing none-too-bad in a veeery isolated situation, as I really, really struggle in those situations. I'm definitely learning things. Keep it going!

EDIT: Also, +1 for taking down Pacal, I'd say even before he gets to meet the overseas civs. It seems inevitable anyways, and you don't need him making friends with everyone else beforehand. That's just going to make your whole game needlessly tougher, IMO.
 
Do the trade, go into a Golden Age and adept the new civics. While it's tempting to go for max commerce during that time, I'd urge you to focus on courthouse and marketplaces in those places that still lack them!

Anyways, things are looking a bit brighter already.
 
Actually you got very early CoL, means early courthouses means early mass espionage creation.
Just focus mass espionage on pacal all the game, and you can keep milking him for techs if you focus on it.

Killing Pacal gives you ALOT of land, but might drop your general development in the midgame.
 
It'd be prudent to beat some techs out of Pacal right now, just take a city, take techs for peace, rinse and repeat after 10 turns. Eventually you can vassalize him and let him colonize the rest of south America for you.
 
Sitting Bull could almost taste it. In a matter of mere decades, Native American ships would be plying the waves, scouting out the rest of the world in the name of future conquests. These ships could not leave their coastal harbors, though, without some way of gaining sight of distant shores. Hence, the scientists of Green Wave and Tenochtitlan began work on the invention of the Telescope.

As the development of Optics continued, envoys approached the Palace at Mutal and informed the Maya that Sitting Bull would, indeed, accept Pacal's offer for Currency:

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It was not a great deal, but it was acceptable. And the ability to appoint Royal Guards would certainly keep the populace content. Or at least less willing to express their discontentment.

The two American nations also demonstrated their mastery of Currency with what proved to be a lucrative deal for the vast herds of Deer that spread across the northern half of the supercontinent:

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The Native American economy was no longer in any real danger of crashing, but any influx of capital, especially on that scale, would be more than welcome.

With the secrets of Monarchy mastered, Sitting Bull sent word to Zoroaster. Major political changes were needed. These changes, if noticed by the rank and file, would cause widespread Anarchy. No, a major festival was needed. As an added bonus, the lightened mood of a proper revel would increase productivity for a short time, likely leading to a quicker pace toward a breakthrough in Optics. Zoroaster kicked out his heels and got the party started:

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Vast quantities of Corn, stored dutifully for years in Granaries, were distilled into potent Moonshine utilizing the brewing techniques that were somehow included in the Mayan Monarchy package. The people, as yet ignorant of Music, merely shouted and clapped arrhythmically.

The cacophany was deafening, and somewhat demeaning, but it meant that Sitting Bull could slip his governmental reforms through unnoticed:

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When the Native American people woke up, heads aching from bruising hangovers, they found that Sitting Bull had been anointed their King, and that they had been systematically divided into various Castes. Many loggers were removed from their posts in the forests surrounding Hawkeye and sent to work in the overcrowded Library. Tenochtitlan, meanwhile, had all the infrastructure it was likely to need for many years, and the Native American army was sufficient to meet the people's current requirements. So the workers were removed from the Mines that ringed the city and sent to work as Merchants, utilizing the Market to increase their considerable profits.

With Optics researched, much logging was still being done across the empire. Sitting Bull relented and decided that the long-delayed Mathematics was worth researching:

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It was, at this point, a fairly trivial thing to research, and it was key to any number of scientific advancements.

Meanwhile, Triremes that had been constructed in Seahawk and Brave were refitted into Caravels, complete with telescopes, and sent out to spot distant shores. It was time to discover this "Old World" that the spirits had spoken of so many millenia ago.

Pacal came by with a rather paltry offer for Optics:

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This suggested to the always-suspicious Sitting Bull that the Maya were working furiously to replicate the Native American breakthrough. He was briefly tempted to give in, wanting to get something, at least, for his efforts. But rationality kept him in check. Native American scientists were ordered to study the secrets of Civil Service. With that, the long-in-the-tooth Dog Soldiers could upgrade to fearless, powerful Macemen.

By 860, Native American Explorers had found Gold in the southern tip of Japan:

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And had met most of the Civilizations that made up the Old World. The northern Vikings, the African Ethiopians and Zulu, and the central Asian Turks, Babylonians, and Sumerians all remained unknown, but, by and large, the state of the world as a whole could be at least mostly grasped by this point.

So, with that, I decided that it was time to bring you all back in for discussion. We are now firmly on the world stage, and it's time to figure out out where we stand. Here's a look at our Domestic Advisor:

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As you can see, Tenochtitlan is about to spawn a Great Person, likely a Merchant, though a Prophet is also a distinct possibility. I figure a Merchant takes the next boat to Eurasia and earns us some money, whereas a Prophet likely gets settled or saved for a second Golden Age. Hawkeye is right behind, though, with what is almost certainly a Scientist, which I'll probably use for Philosophy. I'm seriously considering sending the people of Mexico City back to the Mines and moving the Palace there. It would, of course, be an amazing Bureaucracy capital. Cahokia is, by now, largely a backwater that has served its purpose.

Here is our first look at the new Diplomacy Web:

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As you can see, Pacal is still isolated, which is a good thing. Charlemagne doesn't like me, likely due to his being a fanatic, but he is a thrall of Justinian, so there's not much he can do about it. The Dutch are also a wholly owned subsidiary of the Celts. Basically, the Old World is Buddhist. Boudica and her lackey Willem are Jewish, but they nevertheless have fairly cordial relations with their neighbors, with nobody any worse than Cautious. Suryavarman, though, being the lone Hindu zealot, is another story. He seems to be persona non grata in international circles. Wang Kon, too, isn't well liked, which suggests to me that he founded Hinduism (or at least adopted it early on) and is only a recent convert to the Buddhist bloc. Again, it's tough to say anything for sure with six Civs still missing from the puzzle, but I don't think I'm going too far out there so far.

So what do all these relationships mean in terms of raw trading ability?

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:eek: Actually, it's not too bad. Hannibal and Justinian are clear tech leaders, but I think that by spreading Optics and Compass around to the right people I can be right back in this. And Philosophy seems to be pretty rare, too, so that might be some useful trade bait if I can bulb it.

Oh, one other thing. I can steal something cheap from Pacal if I want to...

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I don't think it's worth doing, but I figured I'd throw it out there. So should I focus all Espionage on our Mayan neighbors? Or spread it around, get a feel for the world as a whole? How about trades? I'd really appreciate a couple of experts popping open the save and playing with our potential deals. Should I abandon the Way of the Spirits in the name of better relations with the Old World? Anything else I should be doing? It was kind of a short, weak round, but I'd like to know where to go from here.

The save:
 
Archery strikes me as a good steal, especially with feudalism right around the corner. I'd probably focus espionage on Pacal until you get to know the overseas folks a bit better. May take some time to get some spies over there, and you get the most "bang-for-your-buck" thanks to your proxy and religion-share with Pacal. He is nearly as well equipped techwise as the Old World right now anyways. Trade away compass/optics for what you can and steal everything else you can't get from them off of Pacal.

I can't believe Boudica owns Willem, personally. Its kinda goofed up over there! Looks like many an interesting time to come though. Keep up the solid work :goodjob:
 
Stealing cheap techs is a good idea. So you don't waste beakers on them and you don't get unnecessary WFYABTA. But you don't care about WFYABTA, neal, do you ;)
 
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