King of the World #12: Sitting Bull

getting AH wont be a bad idea, well, do you even have horses etc on your continent?

Trading optics and compass around certainly aint a bad idea. There is little they can gain from it I wager, then the other way around.
4th on the score list, with even some vassals around is good too.
The game will go just fine, but PLAY MORE!!! ;)
 
Bureau won't give a bonus on gold, only on commerce, so Tenochtitlan isn't a good capital for that, you'll be better of with a city with a ton of cottageable riverside.

Steal the techs you can, it's cheap, and it will allow you to convert some of your accumulated EP to gold by trading for that in stead of second tier techs.
 
Steal archery so you can crank out some 3 promotion archers. For now they boost your powerrating, later you can upgrade them to nasty rifles :D
 
Yeah, with stonehenge+totem poles, it's amazing you haven't felt the need for archery yet. I know dogs are good for D, but especially now in HR, you want other cheap HR garrison options. And hey, as mentioned, if you get Theology/Feudalism, you can go Vassalage/Theocracy for some D4 longbows right out the gate.

As for Eps, don't worry about the old world yet. Keep it focused on Pacal, and keep plotting to steal techs. It'd probably be worth it as well to run a few spies in your cities to load up and basically run an espionage economy to catch up to Pacal.

Moving the Cap to Mexico will cheapen your espionage as well.
 
If you can steal Polytheism, it would open up a number of other techs for possible trade. I'd steal that and see what you can get after that.
 
Bureau won't give a bonus on gold, only on commerce, so Tenochtitlan isn't a good capital for that, you'll be better of with a city with a ton of cottageable riverside.

Steal the techs you can, it's cheap, and it will allow you to convert some of your accumulated EP to gold by trading for that in stead of second tier techs.

What is the difference between gold and commerce?
 
What is the difference between gold and commerce?

You get gold from specialists, like priests and merchants, shrines, and corporations. It's depicted like so
gold.gif


Commerce is what traderoutes and tiles provide (
commerce.gif
), it will be converted into either gold, culture, research or espionage, depending on the slider.
 
Its interesting trade screen, Judging by that, I'd say that Surry, only just picked up Feudalism in a trade, as HE can't trade it, but others can.

Stating the Obvious, its a Hindu/Buddhist block war going on.

Trade off Compass/Optics for all you can get, Compass, 1 turn trade, then access optics trades.

Strangely there is no "Unable to trade" tech's apart from Surry and the newly acquired Feudalism.

Teching paper and trading world maps, could prove very Lucrative, as would the tech its self. Most don't have Guilds, apart from the Jewish Cadre.

Tech path, Paper, Education, TECH Astronomy, with Great Scientist, Settle, then tech out rest.

Overseas Trade routes, combined with the Observatory, should power you to a pan Euro/Asian colonization.
 
Steal Polytheism, then Steal Music and broker that over on Europe.

I stand by teching to Astronomy, for the overseas trade routes...(Mucho commerce) and the observatories.

Then head to Education, Universities, Power away with the teching, and colonize Europe.
 
YOU DID IT!!! Great Job, Neal! See? You lead the game again! I would suggest you now trade away Optics and whatever with ALL of your new partners (except Pacal!!!) (once it's out, they will trade it with each other anyway, so you might wanna profit from it yourself). Even if they are 8 techs away from you: with 8 trades you are on par with them, you have more and better land and your only neighbor will be so far behind you have nothing to fear. Also are your cities now gaining momentum! If you trade with all of em, you come out Number #1.
So what next? Pacal is completely dispensible. He sits on resources and calendar goods, is weak and techno-wise far behind you after you trade with eurasia. Kill him and consolidate the amaricas for yourself. Forget Japan or Australia (I tried that once, costs much and isn't worth the hassle until later as navy/Airforce base). With you owning the Americas and be technologically on par the game is won.
Don't romaticice Pacal as your new world buddy. He is scum and must be treated as such. Once Pacal is finished, take on europe, starting with Ireland, England or Spain. Why? Because it's so beautifully isolated! You basically fight on great land and only in one direction, can't get surrounded and it keeps your naval supply lines clean. I would start that in the Macemen / Muskets Era (which would be REAL reverse colonization!). In the meantime Pacal will be dead, your armies trained and you can trade with everybody all those goods you will have from two continents. If you like, trade for GPT to boost tech if you get a good offer (more than 7 Gold is usually okay at this time).

Grats!
 
By the way, but a bit off-topic: I created a slightly modified earth18 scenario with the other (warlords and bts) civs/leaders. The only vanilla civs are England (in Canada) with Vicky as leader and Rome with Augustus as well as the Mongols with Kublai. Positions are not ultra accurate (but understandable from the historicans point of view) and modified for better playability. (Joao in Brazil, etc.). The Andes and Panama are passable on foot and there is an iron and copper exchanged so that my new civs have a chance to build their UUs. It's for those who have played earth18 so much that they can forecast the PC-Civs movements too much and therefore get bored.
It plays quite differently, because of the different characters. If there is interest - i can post it. Your input is very appreciated :-)

P.S.: Damn, now that I read my post: My english got so bad. I shouldn't post from work. :-)
 
Alrighty. I'm back in my wheelhouse.

Sitting Bull paced about his modest Cahokia Palace. His eyes had been opened to the grandeur of the world, and what he saw was not altogether beautiful. The Peoples From Across The Sea were more sophisticated than the Native Americans or even the haughty Maya. He would need to summon all of his charisma and cunning in order to be accepted amongst the league of nations as an equal.

The round began with a Spy from Tenochtitlan casually swiping a book on the nature of the Gods from the Library in Mutal:

Civ4ScreenShot0000-4.jpg


It was a minor victory, but a victory nevertheless. Polytheism would unlock valuable cultural technologies, in addition to opening the doors to a number of complex religious secrets. Animal Husbandry, meanwhile, would be useless until the Native American empire contained large mammals worth domesticating.

Sitting Bull also hit up Joao II, who was the well-liked if somewhat backwards cousin in the Eurasian community, for the completion of Civil Service:

Civ4ScreenShot0001-3.jpg


Four turns of research is four turns of research, after all, and Sitting Bull did not have to deal away the comparatively invaluable Optics.

In 870 A.D., a mister Marco Polo came to prominence in the cutthroat markets of Tenochtitlan:

Civ4ScreenShot0002-4.jpg


Sitting Bull was all set to plop his butt on the next Caravel to sail the Pacific, but Marco Polo, whose credentials suggested a great explorer, was apparently terrified of boats. He claimed that he could revolutionize cartography and commerce without ever leaving North America. Intrigued, Sitting Bull let him make his case and eventually relented. Paper, being rare even Across the Sea, would fetch much more than a few paltry thousand gold. And the ability to read the maps of the Eurasians was a priceless bonus.

With both Optics and Paper as bargaining chips, Sitting Bull initiated a massive overseas trading program, bringing him largely to parity with the world and soaring up the Score chart:

Civ4ScreenShot0003-4.jpg


Justinian's map, when combined with those of Native American cartographers, proved that the world was round. This information boosted the morale of our sailors, increasing the speed of our Caravels by 33%. Sitting Bull paid dearly for some necessary technologies, but the Eurasians were shrewd negotiators.

Settlers from Cahokia founded the long-delayed city of Hurricane in 890:

Civ4ScreenShot0008-3.jpg


Once the Moai Statues were in place, Hurricane would be a valuable addition to the empire. But Sitting Bull was at a loss as to how to complete them in a timely manner. He would just have to wait for a lucky Engineer to show up, or for future technologies to increase the output of the Towns that were to spring up along the Florida peninsula. The Cuban villagers, left alone for millenia, were surprised to find that their island had been annexed a few turns later. They offered 40 gold in tribute, which satisfied Sitting Bull.

Suryavarman II, the dangerous zealot who controlled almost all of southeast Asia and the Pacific rim, came to Sitting Bull and politely requested that the Native American people Organize their worship of the Way of the Spirit:

Civ4ScreenShot0009-4.jpg


It seemed to be an innocuous request, but Sitting Bull clearly heard the thinly veiled threat. In addition, he knew only too well the madness lurking behind the Khmer leader's eyes. Telling himself that he wasn't scared, that Organized Religion would benefit his people, the Native American king complied. The Palace courtiers were too expert in their discretion to snigger at their old lord's shaking hands as he made the pronouncement.

In 920 A.D., another religious fanatic, Charlemagne, further codified his faith and declared his intentions to form a worldwide Buddhist government:

Civ4ScreenShot0010-5.jpg


A continent away, Sitting Bull was hardly intimidated by this, but it nevertheless merited close monitoring.

As the millenium approached, Islam was founded somewhere in the Old World and a young apprentice Scientist in Hawkeye provided a fairly major breakthrough in the quest for Education:

Civ4ScreenShot0012-3.jpg


At this point, with Education in hand, Sitting Bull was ahead in the worldwide race for Liberalism. Any number of kings and petty tyrants offered Philosophy in exchange for Education, but, trusting in the brilliance of his sages and the sheer weight of his innumerable Cottages, he decided instead to research Philosophy on his own. He could only hope that he would get there first.

Back in Mutal, Native American Spies were making mischief in the Library again:

Civ4ScreenShot0013-5.jpg


This time, it was a copy of The Count of Maya Cristo, which started a tradition which gave the Liberal Arts majors of Cahokia and Green Wave something to dissect and argue over for centuries to come. Sitting Bull was less than thrilled with this, but it permitted the codification of National and Heroic Epics. So it wasn't all bad.

In Tenochtitlan, meanwhile, the Merchants returned to the Mines, quarrying enough Stone to build a great University where Priests would glean scientific insights from holy scriptures:

Civ4ScreenShot0014-3.jpg


With the numerous Temples and Monasteries already dotting the continent, this improved Native American research significantly. As did the Merchants shaking off the dust of the fields and returning to their stalls in the Market.

An updated listing of the World's Most Cultured left Sitting Bull with a sour taste in his mouth:

Civ4ScreenShot0015-4.jpg


Fourth? Well, Culture is a fool's game, anyway. Land is power, and songs and paintings can only win you so much of it.

No, most of the world's land is won by Settlement or Conquest:

Civ4ScreenShot0016-4.jpg


The arrogant Maya had sullied Central America for long enough. Pacal's Technological advantage had disappeared, and his cities were woefully underdefended. The Maya would learn humility. They were not our equals. They would be our slaves!

Flush with excitement over fighting the first real war in Native American history, the people decided to channel that bloodlust into something that future Corporations could endorse for eons to come:

Civ4ScreenShot0018-3.jpg


The Sports League quest is the furthest thing from a priority right now, especially given that the Statue of Zeus is off in the Old World, but it's good to know that it's available. And it's kind of fitting, given our city names. The ragtag band of troops which made up Sitting Bull's offensive force, meanwhile, approached the lightly-garrisoned but heavily-fortified city of Mutal.

A quick sweep eastward across the river, followed by a northward attack as the Spy brought down the City Walls, resulted in an easy victory:

Civ4ScreenShot0020-2.jpg


Mutal had finally fallen! The sophisticated urbanites that made up the city's poulation offered little resistance against even the outdated Dog Soldiers that patrolled the streets.

The bulk of Sitting Bull's army, meanwhile, continued eastward to Pacal's Panama, Lakamha:

Civ4ScreenShot0022-2.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpg


The Maya, mollified by centuries of peace and shared religion, had grown lax along their northern borders and concentrated their forces on pacifying the southern jungles. Now, faced with aggression from Sitting Bull, their cities folded like houses of cards.

Jovial in his defeat, and seeing that his game was lost, anyway, Pacal cheerfully offered to kiss the ring and subject his people as a Vassal State to Sitting Bull:

Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg


Such submission was shameful, but Sitting Bull accepted Pacal's surrender. Perhaps, upon conquering the Amazon, the Maya would outgrow their servitude and would make a bid for freedom. That suited Sitting Bull just fine. He would simply crush them again, and would take more developed territory along with them.

So, with that, I decided to call the round. Pacal is that precious rarity, a first-turn Friendly Vassal who still has enough land to contribute meaningfully as a sidekick. Needless to say, I stopped dedicating my Espionage Production to him after his Capitulation. I'm nine turns from Liberalism. Assuming I win the race, it's my intention to take Astronomy, to kick my Trade Routes into high gear.

Without further ado, here's a look at the world:

Civ4ScreenShot0025.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0026.jpg


Beneath that 1-pop city of Pacal's, it's pretty much all Barbarian darkness, so I zoomed in a little in the Americas. In Eurasia, it would appear that the Ottomans didn't fare so well. And the Khmer and Koreans are real beasts. Maybe, with their paucity of allies, I should go west to Asia instead of East to Europe. Start at the tip of Malaysia and work my way northwards. England is split between the Dutch and the Celts. Babylon, having claimed the traditional lands of Arabia, Persia, and India, will likely be a major late-game threat.

How's the Diplomacy Screen look?

Civ4ScreenShot0027.jpg


We still don't have the Ottomans online, but, again, they're kind of inconsequential on this map. Our trading, along with our refusal to pick sides in Eurasia's brushfire wars, has knocked our sterling reputation down a few pegs, but I think we're still doing all right.

The Tech screen:

Civ4ScreenShot0028.jpg


The Byzantines and Babyonians are our major competitors for Liberalism. I'm honestly not counting on winning the race, but Free Speech (and, if I'm willing to jettison the UoS so soon, Free Religion) are worth pursuing, anyway. Other than those two, we're pretty much at a position of parity. Boudica is willing to trade Printing Press, 160 Gold, and Horseback Riding or Drama for the Education/Philosophy package. I'm tempted to take the deal with Horseback Riding. It's not like she can beat everyone to Liberalism at this point, anyway. And Hannibal traded us some Elephants for some Copper. Though the Age of the Jumbo may well have passed...


Finally, a look at Victory Conditions:

Civ4ScreenShot0030.jpg


It looks like old Gilgamesh, hemmed in as he is, might be making a push for a Cultural Victory. Of course, that's a ways off, so we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

So, anyway, here we are. I'm starting to build an army in anticipation of some Reverse Colonization, while also pushing for Liberalism. Any advice? Accolades? Boos? The game is finally afoot, so let's hear some ideas.

The save:
 
You ... traded ... for ... AH :wallbash:

Are you going to pursue your plan of attacking the world world? it is time to think about it. Portugal seems a nice bridgehead for Europe.....

Settling the Buenos Aires spot might be worthwhile as usual btw ;)
 
Interesting map you have there.

I don't see why you traded for archery, AH and monotheism. YOU CAN STEAL THEM, no problem, and you avoid WFYABTA.

I'm glad you vassalized pacal quickly and didn't go on a big rampage ending with x-times as much land as everyone else...
 
Nice move bulbing paper and leveraging it for the circumnav bonus! Next step is to sell philo to Wang (and anyone else with cash) so you can crank up to 100% science and improve your chances for winning Lib.

As for invasion, I would start with the Jews in the UK. You will have naval superiority and their reinforcements will be stranded on the wrong side of the channel (or on the bottom of it).

But if you really want to pull a stunt, you can go straight for the Buddist holy city. A real moneymaker. I can't peek at the save, can someone tell me where the AP is?
 
Booo!!! you Suck Neil...Boooo...STEAL FROM PACAL, don't trade for weak tech's.

Happy now?? ok, nice trading, Merchant for paper..:hmm: not my style, but you got good value for it.

I was thinking of an invasion of the Jewish Cadre. Spam Judaism to Home, assuming the Temple of Davids been built, and use that city as your wall street. From there spam Judaism to Shaka, Ragnar Justinian. Get them to join Judaism with you, and use them as a buffer against Buddhism.

I'd start in Ireland/England, next would be Willhem/Boudica. Then push hard for the Buddhist holy city and the Apostolic palace.

Booo Hiss, Blaaahhhh...No wonder you need help to finish this game.. :lol: ;)

Oh yeah, just to add, Going free Religion, won't take away the +2:science: bonus from religious buildings, and its only for all Confucian buildings
 
Oh yeah, just to add, Going free Religion, won't take away the +2:science: bonus from religious buildings, and its only for all Confucian buildings

Really? Are you certain about that? ALso is that the case for all the wonder benefits of religious buildings?

If so, I finally got a question answered I was wondering for 3 years now :(
 
The bonus of the religious wonders SM and USak only apply to the buildings of your state religion. So no, they won't exist if you go to FR.
 
Back
Top Bottom