King of the World #12: Sitting Bull

I can see going after Joao first before he gets rifling or steel. Two quick cities in succession that are close to one another and done - though I think Oporto might suffer under culture pressure. I guess culture pressure is tough to avoid while warring in the area.

I also liked the idea of taking out the Vikings. Ragnar is not vassaled to anyone, and it could give another point of attack toward Justinian should you choose to take him on at some point. Birka is also the Islam Holy City if you're looking for another one. I seem to recall that Viking lands are not so bad with regard to production, and so might be a nice buildup area for troops.

After steam it might be a decent plan to beeline Communism. The civic will be quite helpful of course, and the Great Spy might be helpful in combining for another golden age at some point.

Too bad about the harbormaster thing. I thought you might get a harbor or two in captured cities. Buidling 6 caravels is tedious, but they certainly could have been upgraded and proved valuable on this map. Still, you likely won't be missing the one point of movement TOO much once things start playing out more in Europe and elsewhere.
 
Nice work, Neal!

Since you are still in Caste you don't need to be building theaters in your 'New' world conquests, they have the population to run plenty of artists and you would be better off building barracks and units on that side of the pond.

I would hit Joao now since you have the military tech advantage and he is a sitting duck, but I wouldn't add Ragnar to the list right now...too many DOWs on the buddists. Instead I would go all out in building up to hit HRE/Byzantium. You know you will need to do it eventually, so buck up and have at them! HRE is tiny, and Justinian is kinda wussy when it comes to war, so you should be able to take them. Tech towards cavalry to counter their cannons.
 
Sitting Bull looked at the map, cross-referencing it against his troop manifests. The pieces were finally coming together. Europe would soon be his.

But first, the predatory East Indiamen patrolling the North Atlantic would need to be dealt with:

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Rotterdam was a pitiful encampment huddled against the Scandinavian mountains, defended only by an antiquated order of Knights and an archaic garrison of Longbows. Nevertheless, the natural ebullience of the Dutch, as well as their fiercely independent streak, pushed the borders of Sitting Bull's English colonies and allowed them to serve as a symbol of defiance for Willem.

The settlement fell quickly:

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And burned. The Dutch, at this point, could plainly see that they were embroiled in a war of annihilation that they could not hope to win. Willem the Silent offered everything, even capitulation, if Sitting Bull would only call off his assault.

The Native American king briefly considered the offer, but the Dutch were practically annihilated, and this, coupled with the fact that they would forever chafe beneath foreign rule, led Sitting Bull to decide against it.

A trio of Riflemen units landed outside Willem's polar redoubt:

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The fighting was intense. Sitting Bull's Riflemen were better equipped, and even trained themselves in fighting against bowmen before making their assault. The Longbows, though, made full use of the rocky terrain, fortifying behind the river and bringing the battle to a stalemate.

Reinforcements were needed:

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And the Netherlands were no more. Willem the Silent was made to scream in secret interrogation chambers below Cahokia. But he knew very little, so he was allowed to live out the rest of his days in relative peace and luxury on a Cuban Spice Plantation.

The next target of opportunity was, of course, Joao on the Iberian peninsula. He held fantastic lands, but he lacked the sheer bulk of it to be a major player in world politics. Indeed, he was reduced to being the lackey of the Khmer, who were, themselves, outcast and despised. So there would be no real love lost when Sitting Bull declared war:

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Forces could not be spared to move against Suryavarman, but he was no threat, and he could not hate America any more than he already did.

Apparently, on this world, Heron of Alexandria was actually born somewhere in Nevada:

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+1 relations with the rest of the world was tempting in the short run, but, in the long run, Sitting Bull was going to be declaring war on everyone anyway, and two turns' worth of free research was nothing to scoff at.

By 1450, Native American troops had taken up positions outside of the Portuguese capital:

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The Portuguese were not the fighters that the Dutch were. They had never known real war, and so spent their days seeking riches and cultivating a Spy network rather than preparing for battle.

The Battle of Lisbon was a rout:

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And what a prize the city was! The Great Lighthouse was obsolete, but the city was full of valuable infrastructure and even staffed with a pair of Great Prophets.

Farther north, meanwhile, Hammurabi threw his weight around a little bit:

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Vienne would forever suffer unless Babylon's grip on the continent could be loosened. Sitting Bull foresaw that he would be our first serious enemy in the Old World.

Before that could happen, though, Portugal would have to be destroyed:

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Joao had never really offended Sitting Bull, so he was sent, straightaway, to Cuba, where he met his old neighbor Willem (Boudica, being a warrior princess, had chosen instead to die on the front lines in the Battle of Vienne).

By this point, tales of the relative freedoms of the Old World had reached the ears of the New:

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This was a brewing crisis, but it could, at least, be postponed with the gratuitous application of more luxuries. At this point, the peoples of North America had two jobs: To build guns and to research bigger guns. For them to worry about such piddling things as "rights" was an insult to their glorious leader. You will also notice the odd assortment of Specialists in Hawkeye. With our Great Scientist already cooling his heels, and a Great Merchant from Tenochtitlan (He was supposed to be a Priest!), Sitting Bull pressed for anything other than a duplicate. If the people wanted Emancipation, Sitting Bull wasn't going to let them indulge in any Anarchy to get it.

With Portugal removed from the world stage and Joao II cooling his heels in the Caribbean, hostilities with the Khmer served no further purpose:

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War would come again with southeast Asia, but not yet.

Now it was time to think about Hammurabi:

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This would be a limited war, focused solely on kicking him out of Europe. It would, nevertheless, be Sitting Bull's first real clash against a major world power. Success would turn his beachhead into a real presence on the continent. Failure could push him off its shores entirely.

Here is a glance at the future battleground, northwestern Europe:

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And our intelligence, thus far, as to how our forces stack up:

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Thankfully, Hammurabi is rather backward in terms of military tech:

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Unfortunately, quite a few of our opponents are on the cusp of Assembly Line, which could prove a major problem if we plan on overrunning the continent.

Finally, here's the Domestic Advisor:

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The Hawkeye Great Person ended up being a second Scientist. Too little, too late in terms of adjustments, I guess. So we have two Scientists and a Merchant. What should we do with them? Does war with Babylon seem to be the next logical step? We'll have Railroads shortly. Should our next target be Communism or Democracy? Or maybe Assembly Line? Hopefully we have more discussion than the last round spawned :)

The save:
 
So far so good. I would have gone for the Amsterdam Shrine first and took on Boudicea afterwards but nevermind. Hamurabi will possibly bring friends to the party - but Hannibal (or Charlemagne) will be next on your List anyway. If possible culture out Charley and go for the Carthagians since they will be easier to invade from sea. Start immediately after hostilities with Ham end. Use spys to bring down walls and steal techs from whoever is on it's way to Assembly Line.
 
Ok, the gripes first:
- Oporto ( I simply hate the English writing of the city name ... it is almost like calling London Alondon :p ) is with almost 10% of revolting chance to Hannibal. That is expectable in a highly pressured city with only 2 units in .

Have you looked @ Pacal break of vassalage possiblility? You should :
Spoiler :
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*mumbles something about saying earlier something about settling some cities in the South America.....*

-If you are really going to war babylon ( it's a good choice, since his drop out of the Budha club ), you are putting the troops in the wrong places. As you have them now, you can strike the ex-Celtic cities and.... what next? The HRE culture will block you from shipping them in the Mediterranean and you will be forced to either make peace or shipping them in the atlantic and bring them around to the gilgamesh land ( if hannibal ( that is still pleased with Hammy ) don't close borders with you ... the mutual struggle bonus will not last forever ). IMHO, if you really want to war hammy, you should be prepared to strike directly from Uruk ( in Sumerian hands, so you can drop troops there at leisure ) to his mainland and vassal him fast. His central territory would be ideal to your plans of global domination :p

-The Great Lighthouse is not obsolete ........ have you looked at your cities trade routes number? :p Or that little thing called Civilopedia, that says that the great Lighthouse obsoletes at Corporation ;) ?

-You don't gain anything with having a backward vassal. Pacal could be teching something useful for you, but he can't because he's teching things you have for eons. Why don't you give him Gunpowder, PP and education?

Now on plans:
-Regardless of your plans, I think you should forget about beelining democracy now. You have HR, so happiness can be managed by making cheap units. And you are going to set the world on fire anyway.... and the SoL is still undone, so no one will trade it to you for a while. I can see 2 objectives in military technology: artilery and Ass line. Both will take something as 20-25 turns to tech by your own hands ( and I don't expect you can trade by Corporation... ).... I love artilery, but given the SB traits, maybe a nice line of Pro infantry is good enough for the job. OTOH going infantry will really :p obsolete the great lighthouse ( that is giving you roughly 100 gpt, if I made the math right ) and it is quite more likely you can trade for Sci met and physics than for Corporation.......

Like I said before, I think that hammy as a target is a good choice, but only in the condition that you really strike him down , not only take his European conquests. The main issue with hammy is that he still has some friends in this world ( especially wang, that is not a peach in this game ) ... and i wonder if Justinian wouldn't try to join the party, given that he's only cautious with Hammy

Last, I definitely would get some troops and take those barb cities in the south america ( The Inca start spot and Sacramento, mainly ... ). That pretty much seals pacal as your vassal for the rest of the game...
 
I would not dismiss going for Hammys europen cities first and finish him off much later so soon, although HRE and Carthage will be troublemakers.
If he doesn't clean Hammys Influence in europe Neals holdings will flip rather soon. If he tries to prevent that by garrison, his conquest of the old world is practically halted forever. Vassalizing Hammy is IMHO much to difficult logistically. If Neal want's to build to build up massively on troops he could culture garrison his central european holdings and go, with Portugal gone, for Hannibal first. He is accessible from the Atlantic, the mediterranean would be free and the Amsterdam shrine, which everyone seems to neglect all the time would easily fall into into Neals hands.
But europe is allways a mess to invade from the outside, so just don't stop warring and clear it out. If you can't vassalize someone - leave it. My vassals always spy on me and try to culture flip cities (not their former own, but those of other vassals/victims - specially in europe where all cultures overlap). Not vassalizing them gives you opportunities to apply force.
If Pacal leaves, go for his cities and conquer more of em, especially on the Atlantic Coast for oil or just kill him completly and have both continents. (A developed South America is a real killer!)
 
Your best shot is to beat the crap out of Pacal's butt, so you could reach Africa quicker. Use South A. as a base to send ships to raid the south of the Old "New" World. I forgot which tech gives you transports since my best civ computer no longer reads disks. Whatever it is, research that.

And... I got nothin else to say right now...
 
I would pull the whole leave-city-to-let-enemy-in-then-attack-using-city-attack-bonuses thing on Hammy. Fight a quick limited war to drive him out of Europe while getting reinforcements from home to swing around Africa to Arabia. Invade from two sides at once.
 
re: Pacal- Yeah. The optimal strategy would have been to wipe him out in the Bronze Age. But, well, I kind of promised early on that I would encourage the Maya to "Be all that they can be" in the jungle. So I accepted their capitulation as soon as it was offered. That said, I've been thinking for a while that Pacal was close to breaking off. I never checked the hard numbers, but it was always in the back of my mind. Of course, I think our European expansion will quash that once and for all. So long as he's stuck in South America, he'll eventually run out of room to grow. But, well, if he does decide that he'd be better off independent, that'll be the "great betrayal" I'll need to finally put a serious hurting on him. And it would likely be a war of annihilation. Which is also why I've kind of been keeping him in the Dark Ages. Once our overseas moves begin to bear fruit, and the danger of revolt is past, I'll bring him up to speed. Again, I know that it's not the "best" way to play. I just wanted to let you know that there is a method to the madness.

re: Oporto- That's a good point, and appreciated. I should probably beef up my defenses in Iberia in anticipation of general war in Europe, anyway.

re: rolo's Babylon Plan- That's... ambitious. I don't know that I really have the time to get enough troops that far that quicklly, but it would cut Hammurabi's knees out from under him. I can't promise you anything yet, but I'll think on it.

re: The Great Lighthouse- Right. :hammer2: All right, that makes the Assembly Line route that much less appealing. Artillery it is, then! And then maybe Combustion and Flight. Early Airports would make a big difference in the logistics of an intercontinental war and, well, I don't think I need to go over the military boon that early Bombers would be... In the interim, Combustion would allow us to modernize our Navy. I'm not really seeing a downside.

re: The possibility of Hammurabi bringing friends- Part of me would almost welcome a general war. Play defensively for a while, let our Cannons in Vienne wreak havoc on some offensive stacks... But I don't know how reasonable that would be. Then again, I know we're all buddy-buddy with Hannibal, but maybe a war on Carthage is in order.

Thoughts?
 
I know my plan is ambitious :p But IMHO your plan is underacheiving.... what will you win for getting those 2 european cities out of Babylon? More cultural-pressured cities? babylon is definitely one of the big players in this game and if you want to start a war, better make one to take him down definitely and then turn to Justinian ( that definitely has to go down, as master of Charlie ) or Sury ( as babylon borders Khmer in the far east ..... with rails would be easy to mass the european troops in india and pincer the bastard with funny looking phants ). I would amass troops in Iberia and decide later if you feel with cold feet about this... you can decide from there easily if to strike only Europe or a full blown dropout in the babylonian core.

The big downside of not getting ass. line is not having factories, and it is not a small one. But going Flight + artilery is a good plan as well, given the circumstances.

About Pacal... yes, I can feel a trigger happy finger begging for Pacal rebelion in there :p But IMHO, in spite of welcoming a nice conquer of the Americas, this is the worst possible moment for having it, given that you are in the mood for a war in the Old world :p One of those horribly small landing groups that you love to use :p taking 2 or 3 barb cities in the S. America would make pacal breakout impossible, OTOH .... but atleast you don't have distractions from the south when making a land war in Asia :p

On Hannibal..... i really don't see a reason to strike him down. In fact, I would even suggest making a railroad from the atlantic to Uruk to transport your troops to the Middle East without need of going to Europe....
 
I would really like if you used BUG mod and we would always see how many cities you have :)
 
Well... The only thing that really stops you from sweeping everyone is the fact that your mainland is an ocean away... I suggest next stop, Portugal, so you can monopolize the European Coast and control the Mediterranean.
 
All right. I'm gonna play the next round tonight and post it tomorrow. Another advantage I can see to limited war with Hammurabi is that it can be immediate. It'll be centuries before I have a force I'd feel comfortable striking the Babylonian core with. If we rapidly strike, though, and win a quick peace, we can focus on Charlemagne and continue our inevitable drive east. And I'd kind of rather not have another round of infrastructure and buildup.

One more quick question: I can make a quick trade for Scientific Method (Steam Power to Gilgamesh is the most innocuous deal, I think), which'll open up the Physics path, which is important for both Flight and Artillery. Should I make such a deal and burn my Great Scientists on Physics? Or go for Combustion and plan on trading that away for it?
 
All right. I'm gonna play the next round tonight and post it tomorrow. Another advantage I can see to limited war with Hammurabi is that it can be immediate. It'll be centuries before I have a force I'd feel comfortable striking the Babylonian core with. If we rapidly strike, though, and win a quick peace, we can focus on Charlemagne and continue our inevitable drive east. And I'd kind of rather not have another round of infrastructure and buildup.

One more quick question: I can make a quick trade for Scientific Method (Steam Power to Gilgamesh is the most innocuous deal, I think), which'll open up the Physics path, which is important for both Flight and Artillery. Should I make such a deal and burn my Great Scientists on Physics? Or go for Combustion and plan on trading that away for it?

Well, you ALREADY have a GS, why burn it to gain ANOTHER GS? Instead, take Combustion and go crazy! Hammurabi can't strike at you with wooden ships at all! You'll be completely safe! ( that is if you're land attack doesn't completely backfire and screw you over:lol:

Also, when are you going to get Communism? Colonial Maintenance can really be a pain.
 
I love ships and would instictively go combustion. But in my own last game, airports and early fighters worked great in supplying the front and winning stalemate battles. Maybe bulb to flight and use the new GS to bulb to Combustion? Very unsure here...
With airport infrastructure up and running, you will use ships mostly to bombard defenses, not for transport anyways.
 
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