Ragnar has AL and Charlie has Artillery, so your window for attack is about to slam shut. On the other hand, if you can break his vassals quickly, maybe you can prevent them from passing off their techs. For example, Charlie is very limited for territory, so could break easy. Set yourself up for a multi- prong attack: Against Scotland and Bibracte by land, Prague by sea. If you have enough ships, you could even try an amphib assault on Prague, then sail reserves straight though the Italian peninsula to his him in that fat budda's belly Aachen. I'm tempted to shadow just to show it can be done!
King of the World #12: Sitting Bull
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
r_rolo1
King of myself
Taking Prague would make neal a AP candidate vs Justinian... not sure that is good in this situation.
vanatteveldt
Emperor
I assume that the AP is in prague... You can always burn the damn thing (and the surrounding houses 
) and be rid of it for the rest of the game?
) and be rid of it for the rest of the game?Hmm... One thing of note. Upon capitulating Hammurabi, Justinian leaves "We Have Enough on Our Hands" mode. It would seem that his belligerence was a matter of Babylonian bribes (Is Hammurabi coded to bring in war allies more than most AIs? Sure seems like it). Given that, maybe a safari on poor old backward Sury could be in the cards...
r_rolo1
King of myself
No, Justinian did not got out of the "hands full" because of babylon, because the AI in BTS does not do that. He probably didn't considered his buildup enough ( the meaning of "enough" in here is explained in the thread I linked ) and decided to get out of it.
If that is the case, resume my first plan: Go east and fight a land war in Asia .... for the second time
If that is the case, resume my first plan: Go east and fight a land war in Asia .... for the second time
capnvonbaron
Democratia gladii
I'd say your arty could probably shread one of J's hell-stacks. Pikemen? Really? Get some bombers in theater and he's done for.
Fetch
When in doubt, reboot.
Bombers (stack damage) and tanks (2 move, 2 attacks/tern). Patton would be proud. Go WWII on them and you've won.
BTW, everyone, there is a great series on (I think) the Military Channel called "Patton 360" that shows his military skill.
BTW, everyone, there is a great series on (I think) the Military Channel called "Patton 360" that shows his military skill.
Hammurabi, that old fool, grovelled at the feet of the Native American president:
There was a desperate terror in his eyes. The kind of terror that screamed that if his debasement was postponed for the sake of a few more conquests, he would surely throw himself at other world leaders, one by one, until somebody came to his rescue. And Justinian could not be allowed to be Babylon's Cataphract in shining armor. Ink was put to paper; diplomats spread the word. Hammurabi had joined the Family.
Justinian, for his part, saw the writing on the wall:
The conflict would no longer be himself and the Babylonian remnant arrayed against the invaders. With Hammurabi capitulated, Justinian would now be the outnumbered combatant. He stood down. Ragnar, his cities teeming with conquest-minded Infantry and looking desirously at The Bull's European possessions, revolted against this cowardice and broke free from Byzantium's Vassal network. Of course, now finding himself without the support of Justinian's vast numbers he, too, lost his nerve. An uneasy peace settled upon the land...
In the Bureaucratic chambers of Carthage, meanwhile, a fanatical young clerk named Isabella Castellano had became a thorn in President Hannibal Barca's side. Assigned the makework duty of discovering inefficiencies in the system, she was appalled to discover just how much the Canadian Possessions were costing in Overseas Maintenance. These were a vanity project of the president's, of course, born out of a desire to claim an overseas empire. But Miss Castellano would not relent, publishing paper after paper decrying this boondoggle. Finally, in a moment of ruthless genius, Hannibal solved his problem. If this green bureaucrat thought she could administer the Possessions better than President Barca could, she was welcome to try:
Isabella, exiled from the comforts of Carthage to an icy prison, wept.
Farther south, a band of American Cavalry crashed into one of the world's last unspoiled lost tribes:
And found the natives less than thrilled at the contact. Far removed from the Cahokia command structure, though, and disappointed at the lack of plunder to be found, the horsemen killed the villagers to a man, then returned to Cuzco to rule the town with an iron fist. A number of reports decrying the sorry state of affairs in the frontier town have run in the Islander Free Press, but, citing logistical difficulties, such action was postponed.
Behind closed doors, it was agreed that, so long as the backwater paid its taxes and contributed to the Scientific discourse of the day, the condition of its people was of little concern. Not when every available soldier and bit of ordnance was being sent to east India:
The backwards Khmer had long been valuable trading partners, paying well for ancient Technology. But their increasingly strained relations with Korea, combined with their military ineptitude and the lushness of their lands, meant that they could not be left to their own devices for much longer.
Hammurabi, having the bulk of his army dangerously close to his border with Suryavarman, was redirected by Native American strategists northward, to the mountains of Nepal. The bulk of The Bull's army struck at the Malaysian core:
The Khmer's pointy sticks and primitive bows were no match for a modern assault, complete with air support.
What they lacked in sophistication, though, they made up for in numbers:
Suryavarman, seeing that his cause was lost, sent a stack of 40+ Trebuchets, Ballista Elephants, Knights, and Pikemen to die attacking the Native American army, which was heading east into southern China. The Khmer forces were obliterated, but the damage they had done was considerable. Among the casualties was George Patton, crusty old veteran of the Babylonian siege. He fought well, singlehandedly picking off a brigade of charging Knights. A full memorial service was conducted on the Cahokia parade grounds. Even the reclusive Sitting Bull was in attendance, shedding a single, masculine tear as the body was laid to rest.
Of course, this gesture of defiance on Suryavarman's part was just that: a gesture. The Northern Army was forced to withdraw to heal and reinforce, but the Southern Army pressed on, laying claim to the peninsula:
Reinforcements from America had stalled briefly as the homeland industrialized, building Factories and Power Plants, but troop output was back up to full strength.
Tenochtitlan, Production capital of the free world, took a breather from pumping out one-turn Infantry to centralize the empire's finest military minds:
Combined with the ubiquitous Barracks in nearly every city, this permitted troops to have the same skills and discipline of Theocratic zealots or Feudal Vassal-Soldiers without the need to backslide culturally.
By 1726, the long-dormant Transport fleet had arrived in the South China Sea, so not even Suryavarman's island possessions were safe:
By this point the war had become a rout. The Khmer leader begged for vassalage, that he might be saved as Hammurabi had been saved. Suryavarman, though, was so disliked that the rest of the world turned a blind eye as his lands were pillaged with impunity.
Indeed, the rest of the world continued to make lucrative deals with Native America:
This set off a population boom in the American core that is still being felt as of this writing.
The introduction of Tanks only hastened the war on the Khmer. This next screenshot is beautiful, if only because how often do you get to send armored units against state-of-the-art Longbows on Immortal?
By 1736, Suryavarman was broken and confined to Mongolia and a few minor Pacific islands. He had nothing left of value to conquer. With a modern army and finally ready to start thinking about his showdown with Justinian, Michael Bull allowed the Khmer monarch to kiss the ring:
And with that I decided to end the round. Vimayapura is a city on the northwestern coast of Australia, so it actually has some potential, though I am considering gifting it to Hammurabi, both to curry favor and to get the map to make a little more sense.
Speaking of, it's been a while since I posted the maps:
I'm a little unsure of Tenochtitlan's build of the Cristo Redentor. Do we see a lot of Civics changes in the endgame? I mean, maybe a dip into Police State or whatnot, but that'd be about it, right? And Cahokia's build of Rock'n'Roll? I mean, Happiness is always a good thing, but is it a waste of time?
The Diplomacy Web:
Let them hate, so long as they fear!
Science:
I don't know what to sell to Pacal for that purse of his. Artillery, maybe? Railroad? Definitely not Assembly Line.
I finally have enough data to put together a Power Chart:
Of course, Justinian's not on it, which is a bummer. But we're, um, stronger than Wang Kon!
Victory conditions:
We'll have more land area once our new Southeast Asian possessions come out of revolt, but we still have some work to do. I don't even think a final war with Justinian will win the game without another round or so of mopup.
Finally, a look at our military:
We're kinda low on siege, aren't we? Ah, well. I think that the age of Artillery is kind of past. What we need now is lots and lots of Bombers.
So there we have it. I'm going to leave a reasonable garrison in the east to ward off any shenanigans by Korea, and move the bulk of the army back west to Babylon to prepare for the climax against Byzantium. Any last words of advice?
The save:
There was a desperate terror in his eyes. The kind of terror that screamed that if his debasement was postponed for the sake of a few more conquests, he would surely throw himself at other world leaders, one by one, until somebody came to his rescue. And Justinian could not be allowed to be Babylon's Cataphract in shining armor. Ink was put to paper; diplomats spread the word. Hammurabi had joined the Family.
Justinian, for his part, saw the writing on the wall:
The conflict would no longer be himself and the Babylonian remnant arrayed against the invaders. With Hammurabi capitulated, Justinian would now be the outnumbered combatant. He stood down. Ragnar, his cities teeming with conquest-minded Infantry and looking desirously at The Bull's European possessions, revolted against this cowardice and broke free from Byzantium's Vassal network. Of course, now finding himself without the support of Justinian's vast numbers he, too, lost his nerve. An uneasy peace settled upon the land...
In the Bureaucratic chambers of Carthage, meanwhile, a fanatical young clerk named Isabella Castellano had became a thorn in President Hannibal Barca's side. Assigned the makework duty of discovering inefficiencies in the system, she was appalled to discover just how much the Canadian Possessions were costing in Overseas Maintenance. These were a vanity project of the president's, of course, born out of a desire to claim an overseas empire. But Miss Castellano would not relent, publishing paper after paper decrying this boondoggle. Finally, in a moment of ruthless genius, Hannibal solved his problem. If this green bureaucrat thought she could administer the Possessions better than President Barca could, she was welcome to try:
Isabella, exiled from the comforts of Carthage to an icy prison, wept.
Farther south, a band of American Cavalry crashed into one of the world's last unspoiled lost tribes:
And found the natives less than thrilled at the contact. Far removed from the Cahokia command structure, though, and disappointed at the lack of plunder to be found, the horsemen killed the villagers to a man, then returned to Cuzco to rule the town with an iron fist. A number of reports decrying the sorry state of affairs in the frontier town have run in the Islander Free Press, but, citing logistical difficulties, such action was postponed.
Behind closed doors, it was agreed that, so long as the backwater paid its taxes and contributed to the Scientific discourse of the day, the condition of its people was of little concern. Not when every available soldier and bit of ordnance was being sent to east India:
The backwards Khmer had long been valuable trading partners, paying well for ancient Technology. But their increasingly strained relations with Korea, combined with their military ineptitude and the lushness of their lands, meant that they could not be left to their own devices for much longer.
Hammurabi, having the bulk of his army dangerously close to his border with Suryavarman, was redirected by Native American strategists northward, to the mountains of Nepal. The bulk of The Bull's army struck at the Malaysian core:
The Khmer's pointy sticks and primitive bows were no match for a modern assault, complete with air support.
What they lacked in sophistication, though, they made up for in numbers:
Suryavarman, seeing that his cause was lost, sent a stack of 40+ Trebuchets, Ballista Elephants, Knights, and Pikemen to die attacking the Native American army, which was heading east into southern China. The Khmer forces were obliterated, but the damage they had done was considerable. Among the casualties was George Patton, crusty old veteran of the Babylonian siege. He fought well, singlehandedly picking off a brigade of charging Knights. A full memorial service was conducted on the Cahokia parade grounds. Even the reclusive Sitting Bull was in attendance, shedding a single, masculine tear as the body was laid to rest.
Of course, this gesture of defiance on Suryavarman's part was just that: a gesture. The Northern Army was forced to withdraw to heal and reinforce, but the Southern Army pressed on, laying claim to the peninsula:
Reinforcements from America had stalled briefly as the homeland industrialized, building Factories and Power Plants, but troop output was back up to full strength.
Tenochtitlan, Production capital of the free world, took a breather from pumping out one-turn Infantry to centralize the empire's finest military minds:
Combined with the ubiquitous Barracks in nearly every city, this permitted troops to have the same skills and discipline of Theocratic zealots or Feudal Vassal-Soldiers without the need to backslide culturally.
By 1726, the long-dormant Transport fleet had arrived in the South China Sea, so not even Suryavarman's island possessions were safe:
By this point the war had become a rout. The Khmer leader begged for vassalage, that he might be saved as Hammurabi had been saved. Suryavarman, though, was so disliked that the rest of the world turned a blind eye as his lands were pillaged with impunity.
Indeed, the rest of the world continued to make lucrative deals with Native America:
This set off a population boom in the American core that is still being felt as of this writing.
The introduction of Tanks only hastened the war on the Khmer. This next screenshot is beautiful, if only because how often do you get to send armored units against state-of-the-art Longbows on Immortal?
By 1736, Suryavarman was broken and confined to Mongolia and a few minor Pacific islands. He had nothing left of value to conquer. With a modern army and finally ready to start thinking about his showdown with Justinian, Michael Bull allowed the Khmer monarch to kiss the ring:
And with that I decided to end the round. Vimayapura is a city on the northwestern coast of Australia, so it actually has some potential, though I am considering gifting it to Hammurabi, both to curry favor and to get the map to make a little more sense.
Speaking of, it's been a while since I posted the maps:
I'm a little unsure of Tenochtitlan's build of the Cristo Redentor. Do we see a lot of Civics changes in the endgame? I mean, maybe a dip into Police State or whatnot, but that'd be about it, right? And Cahokia's build of Rock'n'Roll? I mean, Happiness is always a good thing, but is it a waste of time?
The Diplomacy Web:
Let them hate, so long as they fear!
Science:
I don't know what to sell to Pacal for that purse of his. Artillery, maybe? Railroad? Definitely not Assembly Line.
I finally have enough data to put together a Power Chart:
Of course, Justinian's not on it, which is a bummer. But we're, um, stronger than Wang Kon!
Victory conditions:
We'll have more land area once our new Southeast Asian possessions come out of revolt, but we still have some work to do. I don't even think a final war with Justinian will win the game without another round or so of mopup.
Finally, a look at our military:
We're kinda low on siege, aren't we? Ah, well. I think that the age of Artillery is kind of past. What we need now is lots and lots of Bombers.
So there we have it. I'm going to leave a reasonable garrison in the east to ward off any shenanigans by Korea, and move the bulk of the army back west to Babylon to prepare for the climax against Byzantium. Any last words of advice?
The save:
royal62184
Prince
You have 4 key military techs on justinian: flight (fighters), radio (bombers w/ flight), industrialization (tanks) and artillery. It probably won't take him long to get caught up so I would suggest start locating his oil sources and taking them out or sending a small party (10 units) to each source to secure them. He may have too many to do this i'm not sure. You have a clear military advantage on justinian and the longer you keep it in the upcoming war the better.
Not to mention a possiblility of hannibal and his crew declaring war on you (didn't see him on the power meter either).
Not to mention a possiblility of hannibal and his crew declaring war on you (didn't see him on the power meter either).
r_rolo1
King of myself
1- Justinian has 3250000 soldiers and you have 2699000 .You don't need the power graph to see that Just go to the Demographics 
That means that you are close of 83% of his power, a very aceptable ratio for warring a Immortal AI, especially with a tech edge
2- Hannibal is gearing to war ( in fact he is the only AI doing it ). His worst enemy is Wang Kon. You also should think on warring Wang ( well, you still need to settle some scores with him , right ? ).... You have the army in the area , so why not? it would give you something to do while you bring the frsh meat to Europe and the Middle east, the two more likely scenarios for the big fight with Justinian
3- Again Hannibal: he is pelased with the Justinian "team" ( him+vassals) and cautious against your "team" . I wonder if he will backstab you, given that you are the weak side if the fight with justinian....
4- Justinian has Fission but has no way of building nukes so far. Will he do manhattan ( it would be good if he did )
5- As you decided to go full war blast, you NEED Police State and Rushmore sooner than later. This means Fascism. The only civ that has it is Wang... maybe you can rip it out of his hands, but the sooner you get it , the sooner you have rushmore done for the big war .... maybe it is better to self-research it
6- If you are going to get all the hits wonders, you should definitely do the Eifell tower too.... IMHO far more useful for you than the CR ( I don't expect you will change civics from now on more than once )
7- With wars coming and furs obseleting soon, you definitely should trade for resources..... Hammy has elephants on you ( and you are playing 3.17, so you can trade for them 
). Wang has furs to trade for you and sugar too ( one more reason to cap him )
8- You have a ridiculously small amount of jails in your land
9- Yes , you need more artilery. But definitely you need more bombers and planes as well
Just go to the Demographics That means that you are close of 83% of his power, a very aceptable ratio for warring a Immortal AI, especially with a tech edge2- Hannibal is gearing to war ( in fact he is the only AI doing it ). His worst enemy is Wang Kon. You also should think on warring Wang
( well, you still need to settle some scores with him , right ? ).... You have the army in the area , so why not? it would give you something to do while you bring the frsh meat to Europe and the Middle east, the two more likely scenarios for the big fight with Justinian3- Again Hannibal: he is pelased with the Justinian "team" ( him+vassals) and cautious against your "team" . I wonder if he will backstab you, given that you are the weak side if the fight with justinian....
4- Justinian has Fission but has no way of building nukes so far. Will he do manhattan ( it would be good if he did )
5- As you decided to go full war blast, you NEED Police State and Rushmore sooner than later. This means Fascism. The only civ that has it is Wang... maybe you can rip it out of his hands, but the sooner you get it , the sooner you have rushmore done for the big war .... maybe it is better to self-research it
6- If you are going to get all the hits wonders, you should definitely do the Eifell tower too.... IMHO far more useful for you than the CR ( I don't expect you will change civics from now on more than once )
7- With wars coming and furs obseleting soon, you definitely should trade for
resources..... Hammy has elephants on you ( and you are playing 3.17, so you can trade for them ). Wang has furs to trade for you and sugar too ( one more reason to cap him )8- You have a ridiculously small amount of jails in your land
9- Yes , you need more artilery. But definitely you need more bombers and planes as well
r_rolo1
King of myself
Well, I'm not sure when Hannibal decided to go "hands full" , so the target might be other civ ( not there is much more of options .... but he might be even targetting Shaka, for a example ( not that likely ) ). And I'm not sure if Hannibal would backstab Neal either ( hannibal is not a big backstabber ) ... But both the scenarios are definitely possible.
.... but he might be even targetting Shaka, for a example ( not that likely ) ). And I'm not sure if Hannibal would backstab Neal either ( hannibal is not a big backstabber ) ... But both the scenarios are definitely possible.royal62184
Prince
Can an AI changed the target of his war? Since hannibal has already went WHEOOHRN and in theory it could be wang or shaka or neal or several others i'm sure. But if neal declares on justinian and neal was not the target of hannibal can hannibal change his mind during the war preparations or is the target of the war chosen at the beginning and that's it?
Kev
Hired Goon
I see Ragnar rejoined with Justinian again - better keep an eye on that as well. Would this now make either of them more frisky and a threat to declare?
What are the soldier numbers for Hannibal against Neal? One would think that Shaka or Wang would be his target, but I've seen dumber things. Do the numbers of soldiers take into account vassals? I'm guessing not, and if so then their true 'power rating' would be higher than the pure soldier numbers I'm guessing - due to factoring in the vassals.
I would still press the advantage you have now against Justinian if you think you can withstand assaults from Justinian's vassals. Tanks play such a big role along with bombers, and I'm afraid that if you went after Wang you might find Justinian catching up more than you'd like. Wang seems like he can wait until later...
I'd rather see Tenochtitlan continue to be a unit pump now rather than building another wonder.
What are the soldier numbers for Hannibal against Neal? One would think that Shaka or Wang would be his target, but I've seen dumber things. Do the numbers of soldiers take into account vassals? I'm guessing not, and if so then their true 'power rating' would be higher than the pure soldier numbers I'm guessing - due to factoring in the vassals.
I would still press the advantage you have now against Justinian if you think you can withstand assaults from Justinian's vassals. Tanks play such a big role along with bombers, and I'm afraid that if you went after Wang you might find Justinian catching up more than you'd like. Wang seems like he can wait until later...
I'd rather see Tenochtitlan continue to be a unit pump now rather than building another wonder.
MrWhereItsAt
Warlord
Check out that screenshot of Yasodharapura - 4 settled Great Generals! If that city can be made into a unit factory, those units get 3 promotions before considering Civics or even Barracks! Could be well worth it to have a place like that on your battleground supercontinent to provide top-notch troops as reinforcements.
Steenberger
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2008
- Messages
- 30
With your tech advantage, you could consider going for a cultural win by building all the cool modern wonders.
Fetch
When in doubt, reboot.
My advice is the same: bombers and tanks. Poor Patton...
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