King of the World #12: Sitting Bull

If Domination is the intended victory condition, might it be a good idea to quickly put together a little expeditionary force to nab those South American barb cities? It surely wouldn't divert too much in the way of units from the main front, and would add a not-inconsiderable amount of land area (and pop, really, they're all about 9-a-piece)
 
Poor Patton...

why Why WHY did you go into Vietnam!? ;)

Or start a land war in Asia for that matter, lol. I think ya got a pretty good steamroller going. Its too bad you can't get Hannibal to DoW someone and slide a knife into his ribs once his super-stacks have worn themselves down. I'd think he'd make a fairly quick vassal, and you'd relieve some of the cultural pressure on your Euro-cities
 
All right. I've begun the round, which is gonna take a while to finish. War always gums up the works. My question is this. Justinian, along with Charlemagne and Ragnar, seems to be focusing on smashing my European possessions while leaving the Middle East alone. So should I:

a) Send everything to Tolosa, hold the line, whatever the cost, break the SoD, then press eastward into the juicy European core?

b) Send enough to enforce a stalemate in France, keep my reserves in Babylon, and thrust up into Justinian's Russian underbelly?

c) Give Europe up for dead with just a token force, make an all-out strike from the Middle East, and probably end up meeting the SoD somewhere in Central Asia?

They all have their arguments. (a) is the safe approach, refuses to give an inch, and ensures that there will be no surprises in the future because the enemy's offensive firepower should (in theory) be expended in his own assault. The trouble is that it could bog down quickly, and Justinian is the one opponent against whom time may not be on our side. (c) is the opposite, counting on the blitzkrieg power of Tanks and Bombers to do grievous damage before Justinian can fully respond. Its drawbacks are obvious, sacrificing a valuable city and effectively taking his SoD "off the radar." (b) splits the difference, attempting to pin Justinian's army with as small a force as possible while leaving enough in the south to do some real damage. It's a delicate balancing act, though, and could well end up with the fall of Tolosa or a toothless offensive.

Thoughts?
 
I would go with B, let Justinian bash his head into Tolosa while you hit his underbelly. He either will
A) Stop attacking Tol and start transferring forces south
or
B) Keep striking Tol w/ everything

If A happens then you face a massive battle. Hopefully you can quickly capture a city, then turn it into a death zone. I did this in the WW2 mod, just kill everyone in the border city, use a tank to capture and retreat, and the AI will just keep sending troops to reinforce so you could always been on the offensive.

If B happens you can just get MGs and Anti-tanks on ( You have artillery don't you?) As TMIT likes to point out that early industrial "junk" is pretty much invincible in the right combo. The only thing that MIGHT hamper you is numbers. Does Tol have a airport? If it does it can receive a unlimited amount of troops via airlift.
 
I find that the AI "panics" when you assault on multiple fronts, and just kind of freezes up. :lol: With planes, it should be a simple matter to find his SoD - that should be where your main assault is directed. Once that's wiped out it's just cleanup time. At the same time, send a secondary stack from the other flank (i.e., if SoD in Europe then secondary stack comes from Middle East). I hope your European and M.E. cities all have airports, which will greatly aid logistics. Your empire should be in non-stop military production until Justinian is wiped out. Perhaps US to rushbuy as needed and slider to all :gold: for a while. (I haven't looked at your save, so this is all speculative - I'd hope to have 20-30 infantry/tanks in each stack, along w/MGs and lots of supporting fighters or bombers within range - carriers as well, if you have naval superiority). You should be able to knock out his strategic resources with airstrikes.
 
Bomber command in Europe to continue a stalemate, maybe even raid and burn a border city to give more breathing room.

Airports in all cities are a given by this stage, Just air lift in Infantry & machine guns with some Artillery.

Ok I've said all the obvious stuff you know.

Personally I'd go for Option B, with one stack of doom Attacking Europe, hit soft underbelly, take out his main industrial cites, no production, no counter offensive.

But be ready for a withdrawal to defend the core cities. Bomber command can harass the retreating SoD anyway.

Looking forward to the end Neil. Pacal, might be useful for a diversionary attack on the vikings if you gave him Combustion.
 
I'd go for option A. Its easier to whittle down a stack in your territory, you get to move faster inside your borders and you also avoid WW which is a big problem in industrial/modern warfare. Once the main stacks are gone you'll have more freedom to plan the actual invasion.
 
I agree with pigswill-just be careful to pick tiles where your culture is dominant to fight in rather than just inside of your cultural borders. There is no WW where you are the dominant culture but you do incur WW if you are not the dominant culture.

After you kill off his SOD, you can crash to the east from Tolosa. If you have any forces to spare in your Asian/Middle Eastern cities, you can hit them from the south but only after their SOD is broken.
 
I'd go plan B. You can guard Europe with protective infantry pretty effectively. I'd send the more modern troops to the middle east and strike from there.
 
Without a save it is hard to give a acurate opinion.... But the land shape of western Europe allows for some heavy concentration of air power ( England is a safe base because the AI will never think in a landing to stop the planes :D ), so my first gut feeling is a)
 
Just an update... The round should be finished and posted tonight or tomorrow. If you're willing to wait for the writeup, it should be epic. If you need a little taste (or just proof that I'm not sippin' Mai Tais on the beach) I've posted some spoilers below:

Spoiler :
This might be the last round, except for maybe a mopup. The war against Justinian is going swimmingly. I'm running a Plastics/Computers/Robotics beeline to get Mechanized Infantry and building the Internet in Tenochtitlan to backfill. The discussion of Europe vs. Central Asia is kind of moot, since I decided to start over to improve my micromanagement of some prewar stuff. I went with (b), sending Infantry to France and offensive units to Babylon. When I declared war, Ragnar and Charlemagne sent forces against Tolosa, but Justinian's forces were nowhere to be found. Sure enough, they popped up (and smashed themselves to pieces) against my Babylonian Stack of Doom in Central Asia. Hannibal did indeed have it in for Wang Kon, so that worry is off the board. The HRE has been kicked out of Europe, and Ragnar has been exiled to Scandinavia. Right now I'm working on carving up Russia. I should be grabbing Robotics and then shutting research off to mass upgrade, right?
 
Ha, ha, Neal,

Spoiler :
Ragnar exiled to Scandinavia? Oh the poor Viking.
 
If I gained a coin for every prediction I got right in this game, I would be rich [/shameless self-praise]

Good job... now finish it and start another/go get some sun in summer :p
 
The round began with a decade of buildup. Justinian won the Apostolic Palace election and, ominously enough, completed the Manhattan Project (Thank the Spirits for his lack of Rocketry!). The Native Americans, meanwhile, sent offensive ordnance to Babylon and City Garrison Infantry to Tolosa:

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(The Tolosa garrison is moused over, while our Stack of Doom is selected)

It was time to bring the hammer down. Diplomats were recalled from the embassies at Constantinople. All intercontinental passenger flights were suspended, to make the runways available for military use. Justinian was told, in no uncertain terms, that our years of uneasy peace had finally come to an end:

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On the Tolosa front, the soldiers hunkered down, preparing for a long siege. In the south, meanwhile, Native American forces barreled into the Georgian mountains, prepared to strike at Byzantium's Slavic heartland.

Hannibal and Wang Kon were too busy preparing for their own clash to listen to Justinian's requests for aid in repulsing the invaders from across the seas. His entreaties did not fall completely on deaf ears, though:

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The Zulu, seeing only the riches to be had in Europe and the Middle East, and paying little to no attention to their own lack of relevance in world affairs, jumped at the chance to join Justinian's "Coalition of the Willing." Unfortunately for them, they were the Micronesia of said coalition. They sent half a dozen Riflemen and a trio of Cavalry units to the gates of Babylon, whose Airport was a major troop depot at the time. Thank you for playing, Shaka.

Ragnar, meanwhile, sent his crack troops out in a very real bid to expand his European possessions:

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Had Justinian followed through on his promise to reinforce Ragnar's efforts, Tolosa may well have fallen. Finding themselves alone, though, the Viking Infantry had only a scant few hours to reflect upon Byzantium's betrayal before they were pummeled by Bombers flying overhead from as far off as Britain. They were wiped out to a man in what came to be known as the Massacre of Fort Tolosa.

The Bull was pleased to hear that Europe had held as easily as it had, but he was greatly perturbed, as well. Where had Justinian's forces gone? A young lieutenant burst into his office with the news:

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Word had come in that the Southern Army, bivouacking in an abandoned Holy Roman military base along the coast of the Caspian Sea, had come under a surprise assault from Justinian's combined forces. Michael Bull powered up the small radio sitting on his desk and listened intently to the confused chatter from half a world away. The Byzantine forces had extensive maps of the complex, and so the fortress walls were of little use. Yet, despite the size and desperation of the assault (eventually even crude Macemen threw themselves into the automatic weapons fire of American Infantry), it was repulsed with only minimal casualties. After the smoke had cleared (and The Bull allowed himself a silent fist pump in celebration), the soldiers credited their Guerilla training for their success. The Infantry had been educated in rapid movement through broken terrain, so that they could keep up with the Tanks in Russian hill country. This had the side benefit of making their stand in that old Fort wildly successful. Justinian's army was smashed. It was time to claim some territory.

In Tenochtitlan, the Eiffel Tower was finished shortly after the battle:

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Construction had begun years before, but now, as Fredo Bull said at the Commemoration Ceremony (The Bull sent him out from Cahokia for the occasion), it would stand in remembrance of those who had given their lives in defense of the American way of life, and those who stood so bravely against the Byzantine Horde. More importantly than those stated platitudes, though, the building spread culture across the globe, allowing every man, woman, and child living under the Buffalo Flag to know the Native American way of life.

As the world watched solemn broadcasts of Fredo's speech, Michael set his plans into motion. First to fall was the traitorous city of Bibracte, which should have been taken in the war against Babylon:

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A small contingent of the Babylonian heroes struck west to sack the Holy Roman city of Lagash:

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Hammurabi's men drove Suleiman's Turks from the Indian heartland:

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And the Scottish highlands were brought entirely under The Bull's control:

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With Ragnar's stack already decimated, this lightning-quick culling of Justinian's vassals forced the Byzantine emperor to face the combined might of Native America and Babylon alone.

Justinian made a solid showing for himself. The Bull's focus on air power left the seas to the Byzantines. The resulting blockades cut off commerce to isolated coastal cities and forced anyone living off the sea to the brink of starvation. He even made a weak play on Portugal:

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Had the Cavalry attacked directly from their Transports, the strike may even have succeeded. As things stood, though, they did little more than distract the Western European forces, keeping many of them from the assault on Prague.

Which is not to say that their assistance was necessary:

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Of course, this merely conceded much of southern Italy to Hannibal's inexorable culture. But that will be a reckoning for another day.

By this point, the Babylonian army was able to claim its first real prize, the modern city of Antioch:

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Later in the war, once Antioch was well away from the fighting, Michael Bull even visited the city to hear a mass in the Cathedral of Notre Dame. To hear its bells singing for his cause rather than Justinian's made his heart glad.

Wang Kon, seeing an opportunity to strike at the Khmer while The Bull was occupied in the west, took his chances:

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He quickly overran Suryavarman's northern possessions and then entered into a stalemate with Native American Infantry in the eastern Chinese city of Navajo.

In 1760, a young student of Engineering in Tolosa, having seen firsthand the barricades and embankments built during the war, rose to prominence:

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Combined with English Spies and the Scientists and Merchants of Hawkeye, he set into motion what will likely end up being Native America's final Golden Age.

By 1762, it was time to push the Vikings from their European foothold:

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They were welcome to Scandinavia and the icy north.

Justinian, feeling a bit generous, opted to haul Wang Kon's butt out of the fire, rather than his own:

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It ended up being a hollow gesture, though. Most of the world agreed to it, but Hannibal, smelling blood, defied the resolution and pressed his attack.

In 1764, Aachen fell, effectively exiling Charlemagne to Central Asia:

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There was no Buddhist shrine. Rest assured that that will be a priority if a Great Prophet shows up anytime soon. You can also see that Ragnar completed Rock and Roll with Cahokia being one turn away. The extra gold is nice, but War Weariness is becoming tiresome, and so Ragnar has once again become a target.

With Wang Kon's peace resolution lying in tatters on the Apostolic floor, covered in Carthaginian bootprints, The Bull looked over his poll results and saw, plainly, that unrest over foreign wars was getting out of hand. It was a show of weakness, but it had to be done. He extended the olive branch to the Koreans:

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The added gold was simply a bonus.

By this point, the war against Justinian had ceased to be a conflict and had become simple butchery:

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It was a matter of slicing out the choicest cities at our leisure.

By this point, seeing the hornet's nest he had stirred up, Shaka asked for peace:

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He was even willing to throw in the city of Zhou, on the southern tip of India.
 
The rout continued in Russia and the Balkans, as Tanks, Bombers, and the new Mechanized Infantry allowed the Bull to apply overwhelming force with remarkable speed and precision:

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The fall of Constantinople unearthed a heathen idol that had plagued the Native American people with night terrors in cities as far away as Laker and Angkor Wat:

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With that wicked thing in friendlier hands, the widespread riots calmed down somewhat, though starvation continued as Byzantine Destroyers ceaselessly ravaged the coastlines.

By the point in the war, Justinian was so broken that even Hammurabi succeeded in taking his cities:

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And The Bull claimed Nicea in Russia and the Greek city of Edessa.

In 1780, the concept of Espionage as a method of acquiring technologies was rendered quaint. The eyes and ears of Cahokia quickly and covertly tapped into the households of every tech-savvy researcher around the globe:

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The Technological breakthroughs came fast and furious. Within days, the most technical details of Fascism, Mass Media, Fission, Military Science, and Rocketry were gleaned from Viking and Carthaginian websites. Even Medicine was discovered through the Internet within a few quick years. With Robotics allowing Mechanized Infantry and research rendered trivial due to the new global pipeline, Michael Bull raised taxes, diverting the commerce that once went to science instead to the defense budget, and began a widespread campaign of upgrades to frontline Infantry and even Riflemen.

These new, mobile troops smashed the already-demoralized Byzantines:

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Not even the Vikings were safe:

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That hot new Birka sound, along with the modest tithes from its Islamic shrine, now bore Native American copyright labels.

Eventually, Ragnar decided that his business arrangement with Justinian was no longer profitable:

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But he was determined to fight on his own, refusing to kneel at anyone's feet.

Michael Bull knew, though, that the advantage was his. Every man has his cost. The trick was just to up the ante until the Vikings found the cost too high to pay. With the fall of Bjorgvin and Uppsala, Ragnar finally reached his breaking point:

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And with that I decided to end the round. Scandinavia is fine land, but we're well into the endgame at this point, so accepting his Capitulation seems to make sense. Justinian is willing to give up marginal cities for peace but, with his Vassal network still largely in place, he is unwilling to submit totally.

Here's our maps of the world:

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As you can see, we control lots of territory, but our people are none too pleased to be embroiled in total war right now. Mt. Rushmore is being built in Green Wave, and we're still in a Golden Age, allowing a duck into Police State, if that would be recommended for the home stretch.

A closer look at the Russian heartland:

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Once those cities pop borders, we shoul be well on our way to Domination...

The Tech Screen:

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Hopefully someone else researches Ecology real soon now :mwaha:

Finally, a look at the nasty Diplomacy Web:

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The Victory Conditions:

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And the Military Advisor:

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So... Next round will wrap things up, I think. The question is, where to go? Do I accept Ragnar's surrender? Do I press against Justinian? Do I redeploy and strike at Hannibal's Mediterranean coast? Do I hit Wang Kon?

And is the War Weariness benefit of Police State worth losing the rush buying and Hammer Boost of Universal Suffrage? If so (or even if not), is Superconductor worth obsoleting the Kremlin? I can win from this point (heck, anyone can), but this game has dragged on long enough, and I think it's time to move on, so I'd like some help with efficiency.

The save:
 
Kill HRE. That should help to cap Justinian ( and if you can kill Suleiman too )

P.S Why did you gave Allemani to Hammy? SP does not prevent you of winning cash on a corp HQ :p
 
bad luck on losing Rock and Roll, Ragnar built it??? was I ever shocked to see that, I saw the icon first before I read about Ragnar.

I said you should have hit Justinian, before the Khmer, but your playing and have a better feel for the game.

Thought Ragnar, would have has more Berserker to upgrade to infantry, but luck for you I guess.

Looking forward to part 2, got to love continental domination. ;)
 
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