DMOC's Immortal Game #3: Julius Caesar

DMOC said:

Suddenly, out of nowhere, we meet Mehmed II (Expansive/Organized). I couldn't find any of his units, and we're not connected via trade routes.

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DMOC:

Probably a stupid question, but do you use your Military Advisor to locate units? It helps me if I don't see them on the map upon an initial meeting with a leader.

I did use the military advisor. I saw none of his units. So he probably had a unit that was visible to me, then moved away (a 2 move unit perhaps??).

Well Cordoba and Barcelon lack the production. And Madrid has plenty of it so it will use bureaucracy well enough. Maybe a little less commerce but that is all there is to it. As they say, you can't have it all.

Yeah. Madrid would be my choice of a capital.

I didn't play the next round to completion yet. Maybe tomorrow or the day after.

Round 4: 35 BC to 835 AD [59 Turns] - Same Old Story

I was slowly but surely recovering my economy by working cottages and trying to finish Aesthetics for trading bait. By the end of the 59-turn round, the economy was actually running so well that I queued up several settlers to fill in some of the no-man's land that was remaining.

(I was first to Aesthetics among the civs I knew.)



However, the trades that I could make with Aesthetics were very limited. The solution for me to get the tech I coveted - Currency - was to bulb Compass with my first Great Scientist.



With Aesthetics and Compass (another technology that none of the AI's I knew had at that time) in hand, it was time to do some catch-up.





The following turn, I traded again with Mansa Musa, taking advantage of technology brokering.



I was able to complete a wonder with the help of the marble resource in my best production city. I needed the 1) culture to fight off Japan's Seville and 2) the science. You can see that I just had several forest chops to accelerate the build of the Great Library. I also built the Parthenon halfway towards completion, before Gilgamesh built it. That was fine with me, since I was more concerned about getting the gold than the wonder.



I got the usual thing reported every 50 turns.



It wasn't long before I needed to make some civics changes, so I switched to Hereditary Rule and Organized Religion. The benefits were numerous.

• Diplomatic bonuses with Suryavarman II (Organized Religion)
• Diplomatic bonuses with Gilgamesh (Hereditary Rule)
• Diplomatic bonuses with Pacal II (Hereditary Rule)
• Diplomatic bonuses with Ragnar (Hereditary Rule)
• Christianity was in all but one of my cities at that time, so organized religion would be great for the production bonus
• Several of my cities were at their happiness limit.

Oh, yes, I listed some civs that we didn't meet yet. I met quite a few new faces this round.

• Ragnar (Aggressive/Financial) - He's backwards and near the bottom of the scoreboard.
• Sitting Bull (Philosophical/Protective) - He's backward and ON the bottom of the scoreboard.
• Pacal II (Financial/Expansive) - As usual, he's NOT on the bottom of the scoreboard, he's on TOP in terms of technology, and he's the founder of a religion (Islam)!
• Cyrus (Charismatic/Imperialistic) - Okay, this guy completely surprised me this game ... (read below to find out why).

Here's Cyrus when I met him.



Are ... you ... kidding ... me?!? He beat everyone to Philosophy and is the most advanced civilization, while having five cities and half of his land being ice?!? (This was confirmed by the map trading going on later.) On top of that, Mansa was his nearest neighbor, and they were annoyed with each other so Cyrus couldn't trade with the best AI trader. Wow. The Cyrus AI is famous in my book for building lots and lots of units and cities while being on par with the tech race.

The good thing about Philosophy was that Cyrus treated it as a monopoly tech, and wouldn't trade it to anyone. So when I bulbed Philosophy with my second Great Scientist, it was likely that I could benefit from trading.



I made a civics change that would be the same for the remainder of the round.



The updated map, with and without resources.





Technology:



The only civ missing from the screenshot is Ragnar, who does have Machinery, Horseback Riding, and Archery. He lacks Paper and Philosophy.

Information.



Domestic Advisor.



Demographics:



Glance:



So ... what should my plan be now? I'm thinking of teching towards Liberalism (I hope I get it!) with the help of my next Great Scientist from Rome (which finally has the National Epic in it and is size 8). Of course, I'll have to avoid Machinery in the process. The AI's in the game are all willing to give me Machinery and 20 gold for Philosophy so I can always obtain Machinery easily after Liberalism (or the turn before Liberalism, to unlock more technologies).

The plan for next round is to keep growing my cities. I did a lot of whipping this round, which resulted in my cities being size 6 and 7 while other AI's have cities that are in double digits. The good news is that I have courthouses in all the southern cities but Barcelona, which really helped my maintenance. Those cities were costing me 10 to 12 gold per turn!

I'm not sure if war is feasible at all until I obtain either riflemen or cannons. My neighbors, Suryavarman II (Friendly) and Tokugawa (Pleased) are not enemies at the moment and are well-liked by many civilizations. Also, my cities are culturally pressuring Sury's cities so attacking and razing them is not necessary. One thing that I will have to worry about is that Cyrus is preparing for war, and I am his worst enemy. Cyrus is pleased or friendly with everyone on my continent except Mansa (Cautious). When I say my continent, I'm not really including Mehmed II, even though he technically is part of this continent due to a land strip near Tokugawa's cities.

Please provide some comments. Also, this might be the last round I post the save up, simply because my total uploads are starting to add up. Maybe I'll post the save for next round, though.

The save:

Just wanted to say thx for posting this i really enjoy these walk throughs. One thing I've learned a lot from this one especially is dealing with neighbors. Diplomacy is definetely one area of my game I can improve on. Also I like the way you took the time to demonstrate your early micromanagement of tiles which to me was very helpful being another area i am working to improve on atm.

Thanks for the comments.

I like to show my early game micromanagement for two reasons. The first is to teach newer players and others who would like to learn from me. The second is so that people better at CIV than me can offer me help. A win-win situation regardless.

Well done on getting established in the main-land area, unfortunate the Japan took those two cities though, on the flip side he did enable a much more convenient war.

Mansa Musa appears to be a valid target for war, with less diplomatic penalties, however this would leave you with an annoyingly situated empire. Without seeing the map closely, I think taking Khmer's main land area would leave you with enough land to consolidate, then expanding south. Diplo penalties for attacking Suri would be dangerous though. I'd do a quick cannon + cav strike if possible and maybe peace once he's off the mainland.

I'd move the palace south asap!

I really want the palace south, which is why I have many courthouses erected. However, I need 8 on this map, which is a high number.

I am not thinking of attacking Mansa Musa, because he is a great technology trader and will be useful for future trades. He's not that powerful at all which is another good thing, because he won't spiral out of control. In my mind, the only alternative targets are Tokugawa and Suryavarman II, simply because they border me. I think that Sury is by far the better target to go first, since if I capture Tokugawa's cities, I'll have to contend with Gilgamesh's strong culture up north. Sury has no one to his south, other than Cyrus who's on an island.

However, Tokugawa and Gilgamesh are friendly with Sury II so I will need to bribe Tokugawa to attack someone. It shouldn't be that hard because right now, Tokugawa is losing the early-game advantage he had. Gilgamesh, however, will be difficult. I am running Hereditary Rule to keep him at Friendly.

Definitely Sury first. You can't go to war without pissing somebody off, and Gilgamesh is always friendly with everyone in my games, so annoying him is inevitable. He currently looks quite small however, so may not be a serious threat if you eliminate Sury and consolidate his lands.

The Arabs to the east are getting large though :O Mehmed

WAR WAR WAR

Actually, despite Gilgamesh's size, he's one of the top AI's in terms of technology and I think power as well. It must be the low city maintenance. Also, his land quality is pretty good. On top of that, he's been wonder-spamming in his capital, Uruk. He's been out-teching Mansa Musa with less land. I guess it's the power of Creative at work again.

By the way, Cumae has been a great city for me, which was surprising since I thought it would be lame after 1 AD because its function was to grab the copper, that's all. But in the last round alone, Cumae produced 3 workers and 2 settlers. Not bad.

I'll play part of the round tonight. Actually, I could play the entire game out tonight since I have nothing to do tomorrow.

Seems like interest in this game is low, so I'll do my best to make my situation look hopeless.

Round 5: 835 AD to 1335 AD [59 Turns] - Prelude to a Skirmish (Part I) - The Booming Economy


By the way, the fact that I have four consecutive 59-turn rounds is just by happenstance.

Anyway, let's get moving. Cumae's settler that was produced last round founded Arretium here. This was simply to fill up the empty space here that would otherwise be claimed by some other AI.



The extra culture that was being produced in Salamanca (due to buildings such as a library, a christian monastery, and others) paid off in stealing the ivory from Mansa's culture. He was actually supplying ivory to me before this, so I basically canceled that deal with him and renegotiated.





As you probably noticed, the AI's will give you lots of resources and gold for an outdated strategic resource.

The religion and resource trades paid off in terms of diplomacy. I now have three friendly AI's by this point (Mansa Musa, Tokugawa, and Suryavarman II). I have Tokugawa at my wing now to bribe to war. Now I just need to wait for the Hereditary Rule bonus with Gilgamesh to accrue so that I can have four friendly AI's.



Since this was the age of optics and discovery, it wasn't long before other leaders met me. Here is one who sent his caravel over to Rome.



I'm a little worried about the fact that he's on top of the scoreboard and has a vassal. But anyway, it's nothing that I can't conquer in the end.



Yes, I was researching Liberalism. No AI even has Education by this point (even Cyrus, who foolishly researched down the Guilds line) so the Liberalism race was basically a lock. I also got news that other AI's who I hadn't even met were fighting due to a bug where you can tell what civilization captured a city from another one without even meeting them, but having visibility into the map.



Judging from the map, the other continent seems to be fairly even in terms of the balance of power. Even Mao Zedong, as a vassal, has formidable land.

The Liberalism race was further aided by a Great Scientists' work. I had to avoid obtaining Machinery so I could lightbulb Liberalism. My cities were also busy helping out in researching Liberalism. As you can see in the screenshot below, Pacal II decided to research Astronomy instead of Education. Also, I won circumnavigation.





In 980 AD, Liberalism was completed. I took Nationalism off Liberalism, which is nothing too fancy, but I decided it was the best choice considering the circumstances. Maybe you can see some Liberalism - Radio slingshots in other games posted here.

1. I can build the Taj Mahal. I have marble and no other AI has Nationalism.
2. I can use this as trading bait.
3. I can switch civics once the wonder is completed without any anarchy.
4. I can culturally pressure Japan by building the Taj Mahal.

Upon completing Liberalism, I aimed to get the free Great Merchant from Economics. In order to do so, I first did some technology trades. Here are some that I undertook:



(Yes, I got Gilgamesh to be friendly with me.)



I got the usual 50-turn report.



I'm guessing either Egypt or France is the largest civ.

After researching Liberalism, my strategy changed. I went from trying to aim for a high beakers-per-turn rate to attempting to build up some military for my inevitable future wars. One of the first steps was the completion of the Heroic Epic in Cordoba. It doesn't have a settled Great General, unfortunately (that honor goes to Salamanca), but once the jungle is all chopped, the city will be a beast. The fact that I had marble was nice for finishing this building as soon as possible.



Pretty soon, I met the Egyptians, who were led by Ramesses II (Spiritual/Industrious). I was wondering if it was going to be Hatshepsut or Ramesses II. I guess we now know. The interesting thing is, Ramesses II is pleased with both Montezuma (Aggressive/Spiritual) and Mao Zedong (Protective/Expansive)! Usually these guys are fighting each other all year long.

I also met Zara Yaqob (Creative/Organized). He's usually a beast in my games, althogh in this one he must have gotten less land because of the Aztecs and Chinese in his way. He's at tech parity as were most of the AI's this round.





I got the Taj Mahal wonder!



(Yes, that's Mansa Musa edging Montezuma on top of the scoreboard. They would alternate positions for a few turns.)

I made several civics changes that were anarchy-free. I always look for anarchy-free opportunities to chance civics (and religions). I chose Nationhood (for drafting), Free Market (for increased income), and Theocracy (for extra military experience and to have drafted units start with an extra promotion if they were produced in a city with a barracks).



I got a nice random event for Rome - an academy! Rome's science output increases by 50 percent! Rome's happy cap was 17 so there wasn't any danger of unhappiness. Also, the forge meant that the cap would only increase since I was getting both gold and gems from trading with other leaders.



I met Napoleon (Charismatic/Organized), followed by Hammurabi (Aggressive/Organized). Both of these leaders were at war with each other, which makes sense due to their base peaceweights. Napoleon's forces outdid Hammurabi's and the Babylonians would later capitulate to the French, ready to do their every request.





Madrid, with the aid of the Great Library wonder that had been produced there ages ago, produced a Great Scientist. I debated on burning him for a golden age or using him as an academy. I decided that I had already gotten my money's worth from the Taj Mahal and that it was better for me to save future golden ages for when my empire's size was larger. I created an academy, which added about 30 beakers-per-turn to my science rate at 100%. Also, you might notice this in the screenshots coming up ahead (not the one directly below though), but I was earning a profit at 100% research! My economy is truly healthy.



In anticipation of a riflemen war, I hoped to create a Great Merchant in Rome so I could perform upgrades of old praetorians to riflemen. I failed to get the Economics Great Merchant since Gilgamesh beat me by three turns.



I finally met the last civilization for this game ... or so I thought (read more below). Here was Hannibal (Financial/Charismatic), who was on his own island but had trade routes with everyone nonetheless. Also, I like the +30 gold-per-turn.



This screenshot doesn't say much, but look at the scoreboard! I'm amazed at how close this game is. There's not that much of a difference in terms of points between the top leader (Napoleon) and the players near the bottom. In fact, realistically, you could say that the only leaders who are not competing right now are Sitting Bull, Tokugawa, Cyrus, and Ragnar. Cyrus is still one of the technology leaders.



[To be continued in next post.]

Round 5 Continued.


It turns out I was wrong about Hannibal being the last leader. Suryavarman II released a colony, Charlemagne (Imperialistic/Protective). There's a bug though ... he has the espionage levels that I had on Isabella so I imemdiately have visibility on his research and power. His power dips down to zero (when I eliminated Isabella) and then rises (when he was created). I wish this bug would get fixed.



I got my Great Merchant, who headed to Uruk. Also ... can someone tell me how to figure out what gold a trade mission will net for a Great Merchant? I know one method that works, but only if the merchant is on the same continent as the target city.



Tech screen:



Glance screen:



The map, fully updated.





I have stacks ready to take on the Khmer. Well, almost ready, at least. Let me finish Rifling first, and then I can upgrade and draft troops. Splitting stacks work really well against the AI, and it's an efficient method to capture cities rather than relying on one big, slow, stack-of-doom.







So ... is everyone ready to see me take on the Khmer in the 2-parter that I have coming up next? My basic plan was teching towards Rifling while producing as many trebuchets and city-raider 2 macemen. I plan on using gold to upgrade the macemen to riflemen, which is nice because the riflemen can get the city raider promotions that they otherwise can't obtain.

Also, how many people are enjoying this game so far? I'm just curious. And is anyone learning from this? I hope so. The tech pace is really fast in this game due to the many alliances so that provides a challenge. I had a monopoly on Replaceable Parts for only three turns.

(Saves will be coming after the next round.)

As an aspiring Immortal player (I play on Emperor right now) this helps out a lot. I was slightly surprised that you didn't settle any other cities earlier (I would've settled the beaver site) but now I see that realistically that site is food-poor and that is would only hurt your economy for the most part. Nice game so far though, and I'm looking forward to the war against Sury

Bring out the war horns. This is going to be a blood bath. Prepare yourself, you alien I like the game a lot so far. I was just wondering what are the green numbers in the scorebord in the last screenshot. For example Sitting Bull has +2 over there. I have never seen that before to be honest but I just upgraded to 3.19 so that could be it.

DMOC said:

Also, after these screenshots were taken, I hired two scientists in Antium, so now both Antium and Rome are running two scientists each, for a total of six beakers per city.

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Don't you mean 7.5? (Counting the library bonus.)

Kadazzle said:

As an aspiring Immortal player (I play on Emperor right now) this helps out a lot. I was slightly surprised that you didn't settle any other cities earlier (I would've settled the beaver site) but now I see that realistically that site is food-poor and that is would only hurt your economy for the most part. Nice game so far though, and I'm looking forward to the war against Sury

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Thanks. I finally settled the beaver site between Uzbek and Cumae (as you'll see in the next round) because getting two extra furs would net me about 40 gold from foreign trade income.

Killroyan said:

Bring out the war horns. This is going to be a blood bath. Prepare yourself, you alien I like the game a lot so far. I was just wondering what are the green numbers in the scorebord in the last screenshot. For example Sitting Bull has +2 over there. I have never seen that before to be honest but I just upgraded to 3.19 so that could be it.

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That is the score change. This means Sitting Bull's score was 2 points less last turn.

Bostock said:

Don't you mean 7.5? (Counting the library bonus.)

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Yes, I meant 7.5. 6 is just the base value.

Sneak preview for the next round:

Lol, nice graph, really looking forward to this. Nice thing about the score change. Never saw it before

Yeah, the graph is really nice. The only thing bugging me is Charlemagne there.