Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
this thread is purely for discussing Design decisions as they appear in the DESIGN OVERVIEW thread.
Adaptive {2}
Traits can be changed every x turns.
Aggressive {16}
Provides the Combat 1 promotion to all: Melee, Ranged, Shock Cavalry, Ranged Cavalry units
50% faster Great General generation
Arcane {10}
Provides the ‘Potent’ and ‘Summoner’ promotions to all: Arcane units
+2 turns summon duration.
+10% Research
Interesting! Seems potentially too strong, but worth playtest.Provides the ‘City Raider 1’ promotion to all: Melee and Siege units
Conqueror {3}
As per FF
Forsaken {6}
Civilization is at Peace with the Daemons of Chaos civilization (Barbarians)
-10% Research?
Expansive {9}
+2 Health
Imperialist {7}
Cities Provide +1 Influence
-50% unit Upkeep
50% faster Great General generation
Industrious {10}
1 extra Hammer on tiles that already provide 3 Hammers.
Magic Resistant {3}
Provides the ‘Magic Resistance’ promotion to all: Melee, Ranged, Recon, Shock Cavalry, Ranged Cavalry, Arcane, Divine units.
Maurauders {10}
Provides the ‘City Raider 1’ promotion to all: Melee, Shock Cavalry, Ranged Cavalry units.
+1 free EXP gained from combat
Can use enemy Roads
Raiders
+100% gold from pillaging,
All Units Auto Pillage enemy improvements.
Subterranean {5}
Can only build cities on Hills.
Wildborne {5}
Can only build cities in Forests or Jungle
Twisted {1}
Provides the ‘Mutated’ promotion to all units (excluding Heroes, Workers and Settlers)
Lucan and Lucinni: (Hero = Borgio) (Traits = Insane, Financial, Agricultural, Pholosophical)
Expansive is a strange and pretty useless trait on a woodelf, who already has no health issues thanks to the forests.Durthu: (Hero = Drycha) (Traits = Wildborne, Expansive,Philosophical, Protective)
Azhag the Slaughterer: (Hero = Grimgore) (Traits = Greenskin, Expansive, marauders, raiders)
Hobgobla-Khan: (Hero = ???) (Traits = Greenskin, Charismatic, Marauders, Raiders)
Marauder + raiders = too strong.Archaeon (Hero = Haargroth, Feytor, Styrkaar or Melekh) (Traits = Daemonic Pact, Arcane, Raiders, maurauders.)
Spritual and arcane potentially a problem for goblins; their casters will either be arcane or spiritual, not both, so they aren't really going to be able to benefit from both traits.Skarsnik: (Hero = Grom) (Traits = Greenskin, Spiritual, Arcane, Raiders)
Astragoth (Hero = ???) (Traits = Sprawling, Ingenuity, Industrious, Raiders)
No discussion in the thread? Won't that just lead to it getting buried?
Do you also intend to add some more double-speed building aspects to traits?
This sounds good, but 16 aggressive leaders seems on the high side, maybe we can cut this back?
I'd remove Summoner. This could be hard to balance, particularly for early game summons that are only 3-4 strength, like Doom Bolts or Fireballs or undead summons.
It will be strong enough without it, with the research bonus.
This is basically the renamed "Tolerant" trait, where you can still build the units of conquered cities?
I'm not sure that belongs in Warhammer; a conquering leader isn't really likely to manage to incorporate conquered troops into their army; I have weird visions of a Kurgan Crom the Conqueror being able to field Bretonnian knights and imperial steam tanks and dryads in their army. We have too many UUs for this to really be balanced.
This could also be a huge balance nightmare since it lets you get around all the UU limits.
If you can build 10 pikemen as your own civ, AND 10 wardancers from your conquered woodelf city AND 10 halbardiers from your conquered Empire city etc. etc.
ok. but we should definately keep it for greenskins.I don't think these will need the research penalty.
Also I note you're assuming we can only have the 3 barbarians; if we can have the 5, then we can add the animal-peace to wood elves and beastmen, and undead-peace to some of the undead civs.
Weak. Add 50% cheaper settlers?
The unit upkeep will need some testing, but this is probably good.
There is the question of whether we want this to be a leader trait, or to just put the magic resistances into the dwarven racial promotion.
Also; we aren't sure that magic resistance really protects from anything except "magic" damage. That is, it has no impact on fire, poison, death, holy, etc.
Too strong.
The City raider 1 overlaps too much with Besieger. Remove this.
Also we'd need to make sure no-one could get both Raider AND Marauder, otherwise that could be a balance nightmare; a 3 move horseman could potentially pillage 9 tiles per turn.
I think we might need to re-evaluate subterranean, and I don't think the wildborne is a good idea.
I think these are likely to be too restrictive in where you can build cities, the AI is already pretty bad at city placement.
Also; what if they get a flood plains start or something?
Potential problem; I worry that adding the "Mutated" promotion doesn't actually mutate the unit (ie adding mutation promotions), it just prevents the unit from being mutated again.
Need idea though.
An insane hero really needs an extra bonus trait slot, otherwise they're weak. Perpentech gets 3 traits + insane relative to all the other 2-trait leaders in FFH.
Expansive is a strange and pretty useless trait on a woodelf, who already has no health issues thanks to the forests.
Marauder + raiders = too strong.
Spritual and arcane potentially a problem for goblins; their casters will either be arcane or spiritual, not both, so they aren't really going to be able to benefit from both traits.
Skaven are sprawling, lets leave chaos dwarves without it.
we can leave the summoner promotion for heroes then
if we want to add combat type resistance to magic resistance we can easilly (if it already dosnt) plus im sure damage types work in FF.
added ingenuity. i was going to add Imperialist but that would be OPed.
I'm happy to leave it in and playtest.the ai always seemed to handle subterranean fine when i played against dwarves or skaven. plus forests a lot more common than hills.
Ok, we can code it and playtest. Its a neat idea.im pretty sure this would work.
It sounds from before that you wanted something that boosted beast units for this guy. So why not have beast units and recon units start with combat 1 or something?i really wanted a unique trait...something like Preservationist or something, but couldnt think of a decent effect.
Either remove the commando trait from marauders, so its +1 free xp from combat and some double speed of building bonuses (or +5% military production in all cities?), or replace one of the traits with something else in each case.suggest and alternative?
That sounds fine. Ingenuity is partly there for the regular dwarves to compensate for the Dwarven vault. Will chaos dwarves use the dwarven vault mechanic?changed astragoth to be (Traits = Arcane, Besieger, Industrious). ingenuity is weak and raiders plus those three is too much.
i like the name of a conqueror trait, so perhaps we can think of a new mechanic? perhaps cause enemy cities to suffer unrest and riot when it is surrounded by at least 50% (ie 4 units in base contact with the city) with your military units, this will remove cultural defence and be a huge fun advantage
What we would need to do here would be to change the magic resistance promotion so that it also gives +20% death resistance, holy resistance, unholy resistance and whatever others we think are appropriate.
And then leave the trait unchanged.
I'm happy to leave it in and playtest.
But its hard to evaluate the AI since *all* the AI's were pretty rubbish in 1.5. Partly thanks to watchtower spam.
It sounds from before that you wanted something that boosted beast units for this guy. So why not have beast units and recon units start with combat 1 or something?
Will chaos dwarves use the dwarven vault mechanic?
Maybe it adds a conqueror promotion to melee units that gives a passive influence aura (ties in with the influence-driven war promotion to shift tile influence while they're standing there)?
Or reduces the influence (culture) of any city you attack with a Conqueror unit?
Maybe it gives a +15% military production bonus, -10% building construction penalty in all cities?
Maybe it could reduce city maintenance costs?
Or removes unrest from conquered cities somehow?
*psst, your genius is showing*
nah they have more important things to worry about thans shiny stuff
we could make conqueror double the effect on influence driven war, coupled with a reduction in city maintenance costs, and/or a maximum of 1 turn unrest after capturing a city?
possibly annoying to code.
I think its wisest to represent Sprawling the same as in FFH/FF; buildable outposts with no upkeep, but no buildings no tile yields, they can only get any output through a single specialist from some civics which allow them.
The only point of outposts is for claiming some resources; they're basically just a trading post.
I wouldn't be opposed to letting them build a waystone and the weakest wall, but its probably harder to code that.
Skaven aren't known for their defenses anyway.
Perhaps but they are known for their tunnels, lots and lots of tunnels. Allowing the player to teleport units to outposts would be cool and allow the outposts to act as springboards into enemy territory
There should be different roads in this game, from trails, roads, to paved roads.
you should also work on the art of each city, Dark Elves cities and forts have those spiky towers and walls. High elves got tall white marble towers and buildings. the empire build houses that look similar to the Germany houses and taverns during medieval/renaissance. Orcs have huts, etc etc.
Already in the design; Skaven get a building that allows airlift.
So yes, for Skaven the outposts also act as landing spots for airlift.
How would they build them? IIRC outposts don't get any hammers and can't work any tiles.
we could set up a series of wonders for skaven that provides Tunnel Entrances in all cities on the continent (Wonder = Underempire), perhaps one that provides a weak level palisade in all cities on the continent as well...
I like this. The palisade wonder could be at construction, the tunnel entrance (airport) building could be at Engineering, and then the tunnel network Wonder at Advanced Engineering.
Skaven being chock full of Wonders (with all their Clan HQs as well) will add to their playing differently as well.
More things to build so their super-cities don't run out of buildings.
added some UBs and UWs to the skaven design.