Immortal University XXXI: Brennus

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Apr 8, 2009
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Hello all and welcome to the Immortal University! This series was started a long time ago to move a group of the forum's players to the next level. Are you ready for the U?

This is the 31st in the storied series.

We will uphold the university's traditions...smacking down the hapless AI!

Our leader this time around:
leader.jpg


Brennus, what can be said about him? He's got bad starting techs and a niche UB. His UU is not a major improvement over the regular swordsman, but at least is not worse than it. The best thing about Brennus is, as MadScientist put it, his dynamite traits.

Here's the start:
start.jpg


Upholding the tradition started by TMIT, this is the first Fractal map I generated. I don't know how I feel about this start. Plains cows are not that hot, but I think it has potential. Let's see.

Huts and Events are off.

Copy and Paste of the doctrine:

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.
 

Attachments

It just occured to me that I've never played as Brennus. Hopefully I can get the internet fixed on my laptop so I can load screenshots. I'm determined to shoehorn a super-cavalry-chain-cap here regardless of how the map looks.
 
Dun dun dun dun!

Looks like I'm going to do this on Emperor/Epic after I'm through planning to camel rush Mao in another game. :D
 
That's not good food. I'm going to scout to see if 2E or some plains hill variant is viable. If not, I'll settle in place...at least the city will have production, maybe that will be handy.
 
I'm going to move my settler 1NW and my scout NE onto the river-side plains hill, to reveal anything else that might be up there. There looks to be a lot of grassland to the south, or moving down there is also a viable option.
 
Deity/Normal 250 AD
Spoiler :

Settled in place and decided to go for hinduism, mining and then oracle -> code of laws. Hoping Hinduism would spread and confuscianism would give me a missionary I could use to get someone in an off religion and cause some wars. Buddhism appeared to have been founded on a different continent so I grabbed Judaism next which would allow me to grab Theology with the oracle which is better trade wise. I also made a really weak attempt at code of laws:

Civ4ScreenShot0345.jpg


After the Oracle I chopped out a couple settlers and managed to block off the jungle from Elizabeth and Peter to the northeast. However the jungle cities gave me no help beaker-wise and Elizabeth got confuscianism which unfortunately spread very quickly.

Civ4ScreenShot0349.jpg


I had everyone in Hinduism at this point and Peter in Christianity which was perfect since Russia and England were annoyed at each other and Peter was pleased/cautious with me from trades. But things didn't work out for long when Elizabeth and Hannibal went to confuscianism. I'm surprised Peter hasn't declared on England or me!

Germany was working 4 gold at like 3000 BC this game and has a big tech lead - I traded alphabet off him and no one else was even researching writing at the time. Though Hannibal pulled even with him somehow recently, Peter and Elizabeth are even with me right now. Peter for some reason has been spreading Judaism to all his cities which means when I get my 2nd great prophet shortly I'll be making more than 32/turn from my 2 shrines. I have a city on a hill bordering with Peter in case he attacks me, but I failed to get a defensible city on the west and will get absolutely creamed if Hannibal attacks anytime soon. I'll have 10 or 11 cities so hopefully after cottaging up I'll be able to catch up.

Civ4ScreenShot0354.jpg


EDIT 12 turns from founding confuscianism and it had spread almost as much as my 3500 BC hinduism :( I had routes with everyone very early, but perhaps distance matters. This lost me the biggest benefit of my opening..

 

Attachments

Immortal / Normal

To 1AD:

Spoiler :
I start by teching AH->Mining->BW and growing to size2 before worker so it wouldn't end up idling.

Woop! Massive jungles all around and a vast emptiness before any AIs come in sight.

Dotmappage:
civ4screenshot0282.jpg


I end up making SH after first settler since we're CHA and start with Mysticism after all. I avoid Archery, while having no military resources in the first 3 cities (should have settled the Horsie with the 3rd, dunno what I was thinking). Barbs gave some headaches, though now that I'm writing this I realize that I forgot to give the buggers Archery in WB. Whoops! Well anyway would have been perfectly manageable even with a higher ratio of Archers flowing in.

The Big Early Game Tech Crossroads (TBEGTC for short) between HBR, Monarchy-line and Aes, I actually opted for HAs since I wasn't going to have metal for some time more and planned on HAing some of those barb cities that were popping up. Almost costs me big time since Bisse, Pete and Hannu each completed it before me. Luckily I get most of Alpha from Liz with it anyway. I try to somewhat claim the NE jungle, and beat Pete by 1 turn to this area, though he ended up taking a city spot from me anyway:

civ4screenshot0286.jpg


Damn Bisse beat me to the barb cities (not that I tried very hard though), and I end up with having 7 cities at 1AD, with room for 3 more. Tech is stabilized after Bisse's early game sprint.

civ4screenshot0288o.jpg




To Liberalism:

Spoiler :

My diplo is a mess, 3 competing religions with the score leader having one, score second having another, and the 2 last guys the last religion. After playing Mr. Nice Guy for a while, I adopt Buddhism to buddy it up with Lizzy and Pete, only to have Lizzy swap to Shwedagon Paya-powered FR a while later. Le sigh - just had completed UoS as well.

I get tangled up with Lizzy's war with Hannu, which doesn't matter much. Here's a shot of Hannu's mighty SoD that he sent my way:

civ4screenshot0292.jpg


My GS Edu bulb synchronization sucked, so I banked up money a bit under halfway towards Edu until I got the bulb off, after which I headed towards Lib with mass deficit research. Turns out I wasted maybe ½ turn of bulbage, oh well.

civ4screenshot0293.jpg


No one has Nat, so I take it with Lib and start on Taj. I have pretty much no long-term plans, I guess I could try a Cav or Rifle/Cannon drop on someone, or just hunker down and tech up towards space. No clue which would be easier to pull off at this stage. Meeting the last 2 guys could be a useful priority, though they've been quite silent after making some noise early game (with wonders and religions).

civ4screenshot0295.jpg

civ4screenshot0296.jpg


Somewhat lazy game from me, I actually forgot both my SPI and CHA traits in the early game when thinking about happy caps and civic changes :crazyeye:
 
Immortal / Normal - 640AD. Is this still salvageable?
Spoiler :
Man, this map's hard! (To me, it is...) I settled in place and attempted to block some land. Elizabeth went through my cities and settled one in my territory and that made rush to settle the rest of them, especially when I saw a German Axemen right where I wanted another city. I have 9 cities. Everybody's pleased, but most of them declare at pleased. Peter's preparing for war, I'm in a tech hole. Bismarck wouldn't declare on Peter for Civil Service and Liz is Liz. It's possible that Peter's war target is Liz because he's only cautious toward her and they have border tensions, but I don't know.

Actually, this map's been blocking my intelect. I just don't seem to be able to think clearly when I look at it. That's weird. I can't even describe my situation correctly. Here are some pics and the save is attached. Can someone please help me see the light here?

IUB01.jpg


IUB05.jpg


IUB06.jpg


IUB03.jpg


IUB04.jpg


IUB07.jpg


IUB02.jpg

 
IT:

Spoiler :

That's not a tech hole, more like a tech...dent? I don't see anything wrong in ur situation. ;) Only thing I notice is that I would have traded for gpt instead of resources since your caps are through the roof already and gpt would have given a ~30% sci boost. Actually I'd trade singleton resources away as well for gold (when/if they have it for trade) and only cancel trades when the green and red faces start to show up. Getting Bisse to Friendly would help some if you happen to run into craptechs that he doesn't have.
 
IT:
Spoiler :
Took a quick look at your save. That Hindu shrine in Berlin is really going to get Bismarck rich :D

But you have good land. The starting location is pretty weak on this map imho. And with a need to clear jungle it's easy to tech slower than usual, but you'll gain pace from here. And as Silu said, your not in a tech hole.

Also, change build in Isca to 2xWorkboats, lighthouse, granary, library and market to run specialists. You have only had 1GP so they'll come quickly once you start farming them.

I also did a few changes (without ending turn):
Spoiler :
Asked Hannibal for mono, didn't work, but the Queen was kind :) Bismarck gave me 50 gold
 
Ecori - I opened world builder after starting the game, covered my eyes :) And selected the barbarian nation from the drop down box then went to techs on the left and clicked on archery. My barb cities had archers so i assume it worked.
 
@IT
Spoiler :

I added my save. You tell me if my game is salvageable? :)

I'm 22 turns behind your save, and appear to be way behind in tile improvements. And the diplomatic situation isn't as nice looking as yours despite the possibility of war at pleased. :( Hannibal just missed a barb city next to me - he could turn around the next turn and roll over me :)

 
Ignorant Teacher

Spoiler :


Judging by your screenshots, it looks like you are not behind at all, but rather decided to invest more heavily in land acquisition than in tech.

In fact #2 in land is a very good demographic to leverage.

The question of having fewer techs than the AIs at the moment, or more, is largely related to how fast you expand. It appears that your fast expansion rate put you slightly behind the wave of tech advancement of other AI civs. Whether this was a good tradeoff or not can only be seen by playing out the game.

Finally, receiving a tech gift from AIs should be considered an advantage, not a disadvantage. Consider it the peaceful alternative to gaining a tech from a peace treaty after a war.


 
Immortal/Normal, To the end:

Spoiler :

Well there's not much to say. I still felt really lazy so I just teched towards SciMethod - was going to pick up the Communism spy and make Kremlin so if I need I can rushbuy my way into warfare happiness. Lizzy and Pete stayed Friendly, and Bisse hated Hannibal too much to be bothered about me. He could read my mind, too, three times I thought "hmm I'll bribe Bisse into attacking Hannu again this turn" and each time he either declared or went weehorn on him on that very turn... kind of scary :eek:

I built Barracks in Bibracte at 1675AD. That must be some kind of personal record.

So after Levees I take the Electricity&Radio wonders and head towards Internet, which I get. I end up using all bottom line civics. I'm starting to warm towards Enviromentalism actually, I used to think it's totally useless, but it's pretty much the only way to enable Factory power without massive food surplus or teching Refrigeration/Ecology (even then you need a lot of resources and wars can screw you over). The downsides aren't that big without corpos (or small-ish corpos) and without a multi-landmass need for SP in a small empire.

civ4screenshot0298.jpg


Somewhere along the line Pete and Bisse decided to whack Lizzy around a bit, but mainly I just whacked enter for the victory. Sorry about the semi-useless game and writeup but as I said I just felt really lazy :crazyeye: If I had been the biggest population I could have tried gifting Hannu up to Mass Media and won a non-warfare Diplo, but it was not to be :p Maybe if I had got those barb cities...

civ4screenshot0302.jpg

civ4screenshot0304.jpg


 
@IT et al
Spoiler :

I played to 600 AD, I'm on par with IT tech-wise due to shrine income. So we're the same situation, except I don't have everyone at pleased. Wondering what your thoughts are for VCs at this point, I'm thinking that war at trebs is doable - an army has to be built regardless to avoid getting declared on and grabbing several more good production sites has to lay the advantage to us over anyone on the continent despite being behind in military techs. Workshop+caste for production? since we have high caps and don't want to whip off the tiles that could be worked?
 
@IT et al
Spoiler :

I played to 600 AD, I'm on par with IT tech-wise due to shrine income. So we're the same situation, except I don't have everyone at pleased. Wondering what your thoughts are for VCs at this point, I'm thinking that war at trebs is doable - an army has to be built regardless to avoid getting declared on and grabbing several more good production sites has to lay the advantage to us over anyone on the continent despite being behind in military techs. Workshop+caste for production? since we have high caps and don't want to whip off the tiles that could be worked?

Spoiler :

Deity/Normal warfare with Trebs? That's pretty damn hard to pull off at least if you're gonna bombard their castles down. Deity wartime production just eats humans for breakfast.

Building an army is gonna do absolutely nothing to prevent wars though. You need to bypass certain power ratio thresholds that are practically impossible to reach on Deity.

I guess I'd gun for the traditional choices of Cavalry blitz before AIs get Rifling, or a massive Tank/Fighter rushbuy preferably with the Kremlin. You have so much land that a spaceship could be in the cards also if you can keep the AIs fighting each other instead of you I guess - those shrines are only going to get better.
 
Thank you all for the help.

IT:

Spoiler :

Only thing I notice is that I would have traded for gpt instead of resources since your caps are through the roof already and gpt would have given a ~30% sci boost. Actually I'd trade singleton resources away as well for gold (when/if they have it for trade) and only cancel trades when the green and red faces start to show up.
Spoiler :
Great idea! I'll do that as their 10 turns pass.

IT:
Spoiler :
Also, change build in Isca to 2xWorkboats, lighthouse, granary, library and market to run specialists. You have only had 1GP so they'll come quickly once you start farming them.

I also did a few changes (without ending turn):
Spoiler :
Asked Hannibal for mono, didn't work, but the Queen was kind :) Bismarck gave me 50 gold
Spoiler :
I'll do that. It's funny because I never build a lighthouse before a granary. I'll try it. Good to know I can get Mono for free. :D

@IT
Spoiler :

I added my save. You tell me if my game is salvageable? :)

I'm 22 turns behind your save, and appear to be way behind in tile improvements. And the diplomatic situation isn't as nice looking as yours despite the possibility of war at pleased. :( Hannibal just missed a barb city next to me - he could turn around the next turn and roll over me :)

Spoiler :
Well, you're playing on Deity so you have more tricks than me to use in difficult situations. ;) I hope Hanny will just go back home. There's another side to everyone liking each other, though. They're all trading among themselves here.

Ignorant Teacher

Spoiler :

Judging by your screenshots, it looks like you are not behind at all, but rather decided to invest more heavily in land acquisition than in tech.

In fact #2 in land is a very good demographic to leverage.
Spoiler :
Yeah, the land's a good thing, at least I hope so. It's just that I'm not used to the Immortal AIs yet and I kind of freak out when I see them steadily getting further and further...

@IT et al
Spoiler :

I'm thinking that war at trebs is doable - an army has to be built regardless to avoid getting declared on and grabbing several more good production sites has to lay the advantage to us over anyone on the continent despite being behind in military techs. Workshop+caste for production? since we have high caps and don't want to whip off the tiles that could be worked?
Spoiler :
I'd like to see a medieval war on Deity if you can pull it off.
 
IT - "There's another side to everyone liking each other, though. They're all trading among themselves here."

I never thought of this, if you go for religion and can manage to control the diplomatic situation a bit early tech trading could be easier. On deity I always waste a lot of time checking F4 and worrying about who to trade what to. Are there many AIs that will not trade at annoyed?
 
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