'Cause I'm the Taxman

@Jet: I like your sites actually, need to scout a bit more in case seafoods are hiding in the fog near those locations. Not sure about the dun/archers idea, but Tolosa definately look like a future production city...

@bestsss: you confirm we can make colonies (grant independence) before feudalism?

edit: I very much like the national wonder combo posted by Rusten for Bibracte... makes Moai decent...
 
>>@bestsss: you confirm we can make colonies (grant independence) before feudalism?
absolutely!
 
Rusten said:
Emp. P. is away for at least 1 month (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8679315&postcount=85), stuge can only play weekends and TMIT isn't very active here so I think we need at least 1 more player.

nocho/BBP have priority as they already expressed interest. Interested in joining now? SGOTM should be over shortly. No pressure though. :)
Click to expand...

I'll stick to interested lurkerage, this month I won't have enough time for another SG. Thanks for the priority though! :)

Anyway, there seems to be no lack of interested people, BBP will play and although it's none of my business I'd also advise to permanently infect Silu with the SG virus... ;)
 
Sorry I'm not too "active" here. I actually have been following the thread but am often simply not sure what to say as input :p. I had to pass my 1st turn but unless I have to play on Friday specifically I should be able to play my next turnset.

As for strategy planning, getting Sury to friendly makes sense though we don't want him so strong he wins (Joao looks like a potential LT problem too as he's a reasonable techer). Normally I'd almost never create colonies, but given the variant it might help us broker somewhat. As bestsss says, you can create them without feudalism...but I have no experience using them this way so early.
 
The more people infected the better! :yup:
Welcome Silu and babybluepants! :)

Sorry TMIT, but if you can't play 10 PM on Fridays then this isn't going to work out.


Spoiler :
:joke: It's NP to miss a set, but seeing as you haven't posted much either I didn't know whether you were following the game. Posting is just as important as playing the sets. ;) It can be frustrating to be the turnplayer and not have anyone comment on your plan.

Proposed order:
1: Rusten
2: RRR
3: ungy
4: TMIT
5: stuge
6: BBP
7: Silu

To return later: Emperor Peter
 
A colony here is strong but it's a gamble unfortunately, getting financial leader (mm trader) w/ all those water tiles will be good. Basically you will have an AI w/ all the bonuses but human choice of tech and no need to befriend anyone too much.

Getting some schmuck will suck big time, though.
 
The biggest problem with a colony is that we won't be able to get friendly with Suryavarman -- at least it will be much harder. I'm assuming that a colony works the same way as vassal states in diplomacy (averaged status rounded down).
 
Yay for being aboard o/

So, diplo... As said Friendly AIs make or break this variant, since hitting WFYABTA with no one at Friendly essentially means teching is halted completely. I'd much rather go Hindu but it looks like that won't be an option. Getting spread is almost impossible if Stalin doesn't feel like spreading it (and looks like he doesn't) - having 3 holy cities doesn't help either in that regard. So we are pretty much railroaded into kissing Sury's ass. Shouldn't adopt it right away though so Thebes gets some culture going. Later on we can spread the word of Buddha to Joao/KK and maybe convert them considering we will have the shrine and all.

Luckily none of the Hindus are much of a zealot so we might get KK and Joao to Pleased with Civics even as Hindus if Sury doesn't completely spoil our relationships with them. Can't afford to deny Sury basically anything at this point, especially since we will get -1 from DoWing on Pericles again.

Stalin has Currency btw, should make a resource trade for gpt.

For the settlers, I'd go with the double clam and fish islands west/southwest of Athens. Island cities will be huge, Gergovia is size1 and already makes 10gpt while costing 4 :)
 
welcome Silu and BBP!

getting going--plan:

1. diplo with the aim of getting Sury to friendly
2 get currency if possible
3. build units for later conquest of Greece.


Thebes-LH, Athens-WB.
sell Stalin clams for 2gpt.

OB with Greece.

Well it doesn't take long to get a little excitement:

Civ4ScreenShot0621.jpg


anything for you pal

we find pearls on the iron tile



50 BC--Sury takes Samarquand.

We're building units and close to being ready to attack Peri when in 100AD he vassals to Stalin:(.

This complicates matters a bit--although it might work out OK assuming Joe gifts his techs to Peri--Peri'll be ideal to buy from for quite a while.

The only tech trade we can make is for priesthood but that'll get a WE and not worth it IMHO.

I'm afraid I didn't play a very inspired set :(

Stalin has a galley coming through as does Sury.
 
@Ungy: 10 points for you if you guess what you forgot? :p :lol:

edit: bah too late, I should have posted that quicker :blush:
 
Ouch, Corinth smack in the middle of our empire really hurts. Especially when it's hogging a Gem and especially the singleton Silver of ours. And Sparta's Corn. We have tons of production but not that much to do with it or complement it. Could consider building ToA even unpowered for Wealth.

Hmm... Does Meditation<->Priesthood really rack up a WE diplo penalty? That's like the most timid trade in the whole game :D Priesthood would be quite nice to start grinding shrines. Buddhist shrine would be about 20gpt already.

So, where to from here? Forget about wars and start grinding prophets and hoping the diplo and tech situation goes our way? Along with settling more of that Archipelago (at least the Fish city 5S from Bibracte), the GLH is one of the few things going for us.

EDIT: Athens seems to be asking for a whip, maybe a Buddhist Monastery. Won't take that long actually to regain the Silver with the 2nd border pop coming in next turn.
 
Silu said:
Hmm... Does Meditation<->Priesthood really rack up a WE diplo penalty? That's like the most timid trade in the whole game :D Priesthood would be quite nice to start grinding shrines. Buddhist shrine would be about 20gpt already.
Click to expand...
as far as I know, you get a hit for taking tech, all count equal.
If that is in fact not the case, then we should make the trade.
Surely we'll get it soon tho.
 
ungy said:
I'm afraid I didn't play a very inspired set :(
Click to expand...
Looks good to me at first glance. ;)

Comments later (but by all means, don't wait for me to get started!)

Roster duty:
1: Rusten
2: RRR
3: ungy - just played
4: TMIT - up
5: stuge - on deck
6: BBP
7: Silu
 
ungy said:
as far as I know, you get a hit for taking tech, all count equal.
If that is in fact not the case, then we should make the trade.
Surely we'll get it soon tho.
Click to expand...

Hmm, it certainly counts the "value" of the trade somehow (opening borders seldom gives WE hate), and I think I remember getting a lot more hate from big tech trades in particular than small ones. Might be cognitive bias though. But I agree without concrete info better safe than sorry in this game's diplo :)
 
^
there you go. Since Silu can read the code I leave it as well.
----
the worst enemy code is like that:
Code: 
int CvPlayerAI::AI_getRivalTradeAttitude(PlayerTypes ePlayer) const
{
	// XXX human only?
	return -(range(((GET_TEAM(getTeam()).AI_getEnemyPeacetimeGrantValue(GET_PLAYER(ePlayer).getTeam()) + (GET_TEAM(getTeam()).AI_getEnemyPeacetimeTradeValue(GET_PLAYER(ePlayer).getTeam()) / 3)) / ((GET_TEAM(getTeam()).AI_getHasMetCounter(GET_PLAYER(ePlayer).getTeam()) + 1) * 10)), 0, 4));
}


AI_getHasMetCounter returns the turns the civs are known each other, this is often you see -4 for traded w/ worst enemies upon meeting.
Passing time (turns) decays worst-enemy value.

The rest are the leftovers from the deals weights favoring the worst enemy, i.e. gifting techs will have significant impact.
On each deal every other civ is notified and in case of the worst enemy it changes EnemyPeacetimeTradeValue;

Open borders weight is the sum of both civs number of cities (basically nothing big compared to gifting meditation):

Code: 
(getNumCities() + GET_TEAM(eTeam).getNumCities())
at the time open borders treaty was signed.

Buying techs w/ gold will never trigger worst enemy as long as you don't overpay.
---
Side note gifting units also triggers trade w/ worst enemies:
Code: 
GET_PLAYER(pGiftUnit->getOwnerINLINE()).AI_changePeacetimeGrantValue(eOwner, (pGiftUnit->getUnitInfo().getProductionCost() / 5));
 
So basically there's no way we'd get -WE from Stalin just from trading Medi (or Poly) <->Priesthood since the beaker values (or actually the difference, something like 40) are tiny compared to turns known (100+).

The actual value differs a bit from the beaker value, multiplied by 1.5 and what not (Civs that know the tech is a factor) but as the value is divided by 3 (for trades, not for gifts) and turns known multiplied by 10 I'd say we're safe in that regard :)
 
Beaker value is not the trade weight.
Code: 
int CvTeamAI::AI_techTradeVal(TechTypes eTech, TeamTypes eTeam) const
{
	FAssert(eTeam != getID());
	int iKnownCount;
	int iPossibleKnownCount;
	int iCost;
	int iValue;
	int iI;

	iCost = std::max(0, (getResearchCost(eTech) - getResearchProgress(eTech)));

	iValue = ((iCost * 3) / 2);

	iKnownCount = 0;
	iPossibleKnownCount = 0;

	for (iI = 0; iI < MAX_CIV_TEAMS; iI++)
	{
		if (GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iI).isAlive())
		{
			if (iI != getID())
			{
				if (isHasMet((TeamTypes)iI))
				{
					if (GET_TEAM((TeamTypes)iI).isHasTech(eTech))
					{
						iKnownCount++;
					}

					iPossibleKnownCount++;
				}
			}
		}
	}

	iValue += (((iCost / 2) * (iPossibleKnownCount - iKnownCount)) / iPossibleKnownCount);

	iValue *= std::max(0, (GC.getTechInfo(eTech).getAITradeModifier() + 100));
	iValue /= 100;

	iValue -= (iValue % GC.getDefineINT("DIPLOMACY_VALUE_REMAINDER"));

	if (isHuman())
	{
		return std::max(iValue, GC.getDefineINT("DIPLOMACY_VALUE_REMAINDER"));
	}
	else
	{
		return iValue;
	}
}

Your technologies weight less to the AI.
(So in that case it's even better, I think you won't get negative effect)
 
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