Troop movements through enemy territory during unrest

Hawklord

Hawklord

Sonic Warrior
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
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5,018
Location
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WE have come across an interesting phenomenon in a pbem game.
Epsilon
There are 3 human civs and 2 ai left.

The Americans and Romans are at war with the Japanese who are way ahead in tech.
The Romans bribed the AI's to come in on our side so the Japanese are extremely unhappy.

Rome took a Japanese city with a marine and disembarked troops in the city. Most of the Japanese cities were in unrest and undefended.

When I moved troops to knock down as many cities as I could, because there was no way to hold them, I found that there was no movement penalty for moving into enemy territory. So I could destroy all of the Japanese core cities until my troops eventually ran out of movement.

The question is:

Is this a glitch or is it normal for enemy troops to be able to move through rioting Japanese countryside and destroy undefended cities in unrest with no movement penalties?

Anybody know how this works?
 
Well it's just a normal pbem I think. Anyway units were marines, infantry and tanks. Which could go anywhere on the Japanese rail network. It was like they were at home in Rome :)
 
Neutral land is the same as your land. If you capture or raze a town, the culture borders are removed, unless nearby towns expand. So you can move along freely, except for the ones in a tile that was a razed town as it no longer has a road or a rail.
 
The problem is that they were still Japanese cities and the land was also Japanese. My troops could use the railways to move from Japanese city to Japanese city capturing them all. No defenders, but the infantry didn't stop when it hit Japanese territory, there was no effect crossing the border. All Japanese land was like neutral land.

I expected the infantry to stop after crossing the border (1 move) but it continued for about 8 cities before running out of movement. So 2 tanks, 2 infantry and a marine decimated the undefended heartland of the Japanese Empire.

So does this have to do with the unrest? or is it a bug?

You wouldn't get this in a normal game as the AI won't leave empty cities. Only with a people v people game.
 
If it's a bug then we should replay the turn with an agreed limited damage which means that Japan will most likely win sooner rather than later. :( But if it's part of the game mechanics then it should stand and the Japanese are a bit stuffed. :)
Me being the Romans :D
 
I last played a PTW PBEM years back, but we could not use their land like that. The land was human as we had no AI's in the game. I recall planning every move of every unit to capture as many towns as possible.

So I doubt it matters, if it was AI or human land. It should not work like that. Have you looked in the PTW section for any reported issues like that. I think I woul dhave heard and remember one, but it was a long time ago.
 
Im in the same seat as vxma, I did play lots of PBEM back when.

Just that im sure this is not the way it should work. I even looked back on lots of old games and using combat settlers was the way to go to get several towns in one turn.

So, to me it sounds like a bug, or a modded biq.
 
It's a C3C game according to the first post. I didn't expect this either. The only thing is that the whole of the Japanese empire is in unrest. I wondered if that makes a difference. We need someone who knows how the game engine works.

It was fun gutting the dominant civs empire though. :lol:
 
BTW, we are playing C3C, not PTW!!

I am Japan and don't think that moving within enemies territory is possible, no matter whether cities are rioting or not.

EDIT: X-post with Hawklord...:)
 
Well my answer still stands. Unrest does not have any function on territory rules.
 
Hawklord said:
If it's a bug then we should replay the turn with an agreed limited damage which means that Japan will most likely win sooner rather than later. :( But if it's part of the game mechanics then it should stand and the Japanese are a bit stuffed. :)
Me being the Romans :D
Click to expand...
The bold bit is debatable (bold added by me), as you were both thinking you could not use roads in enemy territory as if it were your own. This is a strategy game, and if this would turn the game than it wouldn't be because of better strategy or some luck, but because of a freak occurrence beyond luck.
My view is that it might be best to brand this as a bug for now, even though we don't really know yet what has caused this. Still now and then things pop up in the game that nobody has discovered before.
 
If anybody who is not in Epsilon wants to try this to see if it is the same for everybody and not something to do with my Civ set up, send me your e-mail and I'll send the save and the password so you can try it.

It would be interesting to see if the movement is still there for anyone else.

For the sake of getting the game going again I'll treat it as a bug. I tried again and I could capture every empty city on the continent if I avoided any enemy units. Then dispose of a few stacks of arty and bombers before my movement ran out.
 
You guys are sure you were not accidentally playing Civ2? :lol:

In Civ2 it was possible to use enemy railroad, but in Civ3 this is unheard of, I'd say. My explanation: after 5 years of constant saving, traveling through the internet and reloading, a bit has flipped in the .sav file... :D

Lanzelot
 
Might be that the save is worn out :lol: it's been around for a long time.

I've sent the save to Lanzelot see is it's the same for him.

Anyway think about it. The Japanese people are rioting everywhere, social order has collapsed throughout the Japanese empire. The telephone engineers are hiding in their cellars. A Roman division of Marines lands in a coastal city. No resistance, no one to send word to the leaders. The Romans quickly secure the rail yard and commandeer Japanese trains. In the next city the story is the same, no resistance, rioting all over so the Romans plant explosives and move on, and on and on.
The government find out when Roman tanks roll into Kyoto, by the time they have moved on, Roman tanks catch up again. Japanese troops without orders and just barely hold the population in check.

It's the standard Blitzkrieg, the Japanese (like the French in WW2) didn't expect it and their troops were bypassed.

Could happen. ;)
 
OK I have posted the save in question. If some of you could try it.

PM me for the password. Then you can see for yourselves. It might still be something strange with the save I guess but it seems strange for a save to get corrupted like that, normally they just stop working.
 

Attachments

An independent player has played the save and:

The Guardian said:
OK I got in. Using the units in the transport off the coast of Toyama, I was able to capture Toyama and then proceeded to capture a large number of the japanese cities and I destroyed the japanese spaceship.

The only thing that stopped me was japanese cities that were occuppied by japanese units. I was unable to continue to the next turn so I do not know what would happen on the next move, ie what the japanese counter attack would look like, however, the loss of his spaceship would certainly preclude a spacerace victory.
Click to expand...

So it's not something to do with my set up then. I don't think you could set this up in the editor to change the biq file. I have some experience using it but am not an expert.

So I think it must be a "bug" or an unknown feature.

I'd lean towards it being a feature that only comes with extreme unrest, but I have a vested interest in the game so am not impartial.

Anybody who thinks it's impossible try the save yourself and see.
 
Hawklord said:
Anyway think about it. The Japanese people are rioting everywhere, social order has collapsed throughout the Japanese empire. The telephone engineers are hiding in their cellars. A Roman division of Marines lands in a coastal city. No resistance, no one to send word to the leaders. The Romans quickly secure the rail yard and commandeer Japanese trains...
Click to expand...
Yes, from a real life perspective it makes perfect sense, I think everybody would agree. But it's irrelevant to the issue you've got here.
So it's not something to do with my set up then. I don't think you could set this up in the editor to change the biq file. I have some experience using it but am not an expert.
Click to expand...
No way you have manipulated this; the editor gives you no means to do anything like this. What people mean with your 'set up' I don't know.
I don't think anybody knows how this has come about.
What you could do is to drop a link to this thread in the 'Creation and Costumization forum', not that I think that this is a modding thing, but the folks there usually have a much better understanding of the technical aspects of the game.
 
Hawklord said:
So I think it must be a "bug" or an unknown feature.

I'd lean towards it being a feature that only comes with extreme unrest, but I have a vested interest in the game so am not impartial.
Click to expand...

Obviously it's tough for me being objective in this matter, but if this were a feature, we'd not be the first to recognize it.

However I am looking forward to getting back the save to see whether my core cities are all rioting, which I cannot imagine, actually.
 
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