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Old Mar 24, 2010, 07:57 PM   #61
MatrixTheKitty
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It's been shown many times that you need twelve pentagons mixed in with the hexagons to make a "hexagonal" sphere. It's not happening.
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Old Mar 25, 2010, 12:32 AM   #62
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While it's been shown that twelve pentagons are not the end of the world, and while I really do want to play spherical maps, it probably does not happening yet.

Anyway, on size terms: who says that hypothetical “GEM” mod (or maybe just scenario) should contain just one, really humongous map? I think several Earth maps of various sizes and, of course, various precision (larger = more realistic, smaller = more distortion; yet common principles, like enlarged Europe are applied to all of them) are better idea.
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Old Mar 25, 2010, 09:17 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahriman View Post
*I* do, but a fair number of Civ players don't. More to the point though, having a dual core PC does not somehow inherently mean that processor power is no longer an issue, and that you can make a map of any size you like without performance suffering.
You are right that it does not necessarily discount the processor issue, but it should definitely help. Especially if, like the claim, Civ V is developed to utilize multi-processors. To my understanding, Civ IV wasn't. Regardless, what I was saying is that dual cores have been out long enough that anybody who would consider themselves a gamer would find it in their best interest to upgrade by now. I got my computer last June, and it wasn't "top of the line", but should be able to handle most games (at least ones programmed to utilize the multi-processors).

Quote:
Also, too big a map makes the game unplayable, because it takes too many turns to get anywhere. (How long should it take for England to get to North America or India or New Zealand?)
Well, the problem is that developers (in general) are too focused on "improving" the graphics with the newer hardware. If they would step back from the aesthetics and focus on putting the power towards "bigger worlds", we wouldn't have the problem of games crapping out when we try to make bigger worlds. Graphics are to the point where the "improvements" are getting less drastic with each hardware iteration. Unfortunately, review outlets like IGN constantly cry if the graphics look like anything "last gen".

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Civilization isn't just "genetic structure of the people". Its the whole culture.

Rome the *city* exists, but Imperial Roman culture was totally destroyed. Modern Italy comes from Lombards and Vandals - conquerors of Rome - not from ancient Rome.
Celts are gone - pushed out of Anatolia by Turks, pushed out of British isles by Angles, Saxons, Normans, Vikings, etc. There is no real "Celtic" culture anymore.
Carthage totally gone - and it long outstripped Phoenicia in scope, the colony surpassed the motherland (much like US surpassed Britain).
Aztecs: culture is gone, assimilated into Spanish conquests. Mexico is not Aztec.
Similarly Incas, excepting a few pockets of Quecha speakers in Peru and the like. Culture is mostly gone.
Byzantines are totally gone, devoured by the Ottomans. Ottoman Empire was not culturally Greek/Orthodox/Byzantine.
HRE (as distinct from Germany) is gone, devoured by Germany and Austria/Hungary.
Zulus are still a significant political group in South Africa, but they are not a separate civilization anymore.
I have been reading several dummies books on history (for my own entertainment and curiosity) lately, including Ancient Greeks and Romans (I have just started reading Mythology 4D and have British History, Ancient Egyptians, U.S. History, and World History on tap). Anyway, I was about to school our friend on many of his mistakes, but thankfully, you already did that and saved me the trouble.

The only thing that I would point out is that the Byzantines were the remainder of the Roman Empire after the WRE fell in the 400's AD. While, technically, it was Greece and the surrounding areas, the Byzantines carried on what remained culturally of the Ancient Romans for the thousand years following the fall of the west.

For the most part, I would say that the rest of what you said was pretty spot on (especially about the Aztecs). Though, I could probably right an essay about how, technically, the ancient cultures aren't gone, just mixed in with the other cultures that have come and gone. Anyway, when thinking of the Romans, I would say that the Roman Republic has been reborn in the form of America. The whole time I was reading the Romans for Dummies book, I couldn't help but think about how much it mirrors that of modern America. Of course, the way things are going in America on the political front, things might just lead to civil wars which could lead to the fall of the "American Republic"! Hmmm... could that mean that we might see the American Empire in the near future?

Sorry... got off on a rant! Just been thinking a lot about that stuff lately. I should be going to bed now.

Anyway... Go GEM!
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Old Mar 26, 2010, 02:22 AM   #64
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the main problem with the developers are that; their managers are too young. they just follow the new world's trend, that's why gfx is 1st priority for them.
maybe more experienced lead designers/programmers have won enough and decided to be a top-manager who is only following marketing and sales.
well, obviously civ5 needs more experienced guys in the 'kitchen'.
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Old Mar 26, 2010, 06:10 AM   #65
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The only thing that I would point out is that the Byzantines were the remainder of the Roman Empire after the WRE fell in the 400's AD. While, technically, it was Greece and the surrounding areas, the Byzantines carried on what remained culturally of the Ancient Romans for the thousand years following the fall of the west.
Absolutely. Though I think that in 1000 years they were different enough to also qualify as their own Civilization.

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the main problem with the developers are that; their managers are too young. they just follow the new world's trend, that's why gfx is 1st priority for them.
I see no evidence that Civ5 developers are prioritizing graphics over gameplay.
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Old Mar 26, 2010, 06:26 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Ahriman View Post
I see no evidence that Civ5 developers are prioritizing graphics over gameplay.
civ4 gfx was already more than enough for a turn based strategy game.
and demo screenshots of civ5 shows civ5 will have better gfx than civ4 although it was only a demo screenshot, there may be even more graphical improvement over what we saw until now.

still if they really prioritize gameplay over gfx, then i can only say that marketing management for the game is bad.


here is the result of a poll in firaxis home page civ5 section.

4. Graphics or Gameplay?
Percent Answer
2% It’s gotta be pretty
51% Balance is the key
47% Who cares about graphics?

fans either value gameplay and gfx equally or they don't care about gfx at all.
i know this is a poll of fans-by-heart, not all the ones that will buy the game but still i believe firaxis didn't need to do civ5 gfx better than civ4.

Last edited by kivanc; Mar 26, 2010 at 06:46 AM.
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Old Mar 26, 2010, 08:46 AM   #67
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If they did not include at least *some*graphical improvements, they would find it difficult to sell a new version.
[Witness the "Civ5 looks ugly" type threads]

It seems to me like they are focusing on gameplay, while having some nice graphical updates too. (I like the ocean look, and the moderate terrain/tile mixing, and the mountains. Rivers look ugly....)

I think for a game with as big an audience as Civ, they get a big enough development budget to do both.
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Old Mar 26, 2010, 08:47 AM   #68
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Giant hex-map used for a World War II simulation:



(Click for Full Size)

More information Here
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Old Mar 26, 2010, 09:13 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahriman View Post
If they did not include at least *some*graphical improvements, they would find it difficult to sell a new version.
[Witness the "Civ5 looks ugly" type threads]

It seems to me like they are focusing on gameplay, while having some nice graphical updates too. (I like the ocean look, and the moderate terrain/tile mixing, and the mountains. Rivers look ugly....)

I think for a game with as big an audience as Civ, they get a big enough development budget to do both.
well, i already like civ4 gfx so much, that's why i said it.

and let me remind; baldur's gate1, icewind dale 1 and 2 and their expansions. all these games had the same graphics. and they were still popular, i guess they should have sold much.
anyway, improved gfx is ok for me, but i need improved gameplay more.

@andrew_jay
i think i saw that game somewhere before but didn't play. but the map is gigantic. (i don't want to count it but it just looks like a ~50k hex map, i just noticed every hex seem like a 100km*100km) very nice!
but i doubt any pc will run it fast.
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Old Mar 26, 2010, 09:22 AM   #70
Thorburne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_Jay View Post
Giant hex-map used for a World War II simulation:



(Click for Full Size)

More information Here
That would be pretty good... It seems pretty detailed and covers a lot of areas. Alaska is a little messed up, but, for the most part, I like it.
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Old Mar 26, 2010, 09:48 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_Jay View Post
Giant hex-map used for a World War II simulation:



(Click for Full Size)

More information Here
The map is not really the best, in my opinion, but the link you provided is actually very intriguing! How can these people spent years to play a PBEM game? The amount of dedication is unbelievable! And my God, they even wrote their own newspaper for every turn!
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 12:35 PM   #72
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I also found the map Andrew_Jay posted when I did some google searches for hexmaps. I like the scale of it, but the problem is that they don't use strict hexagonal tiles. Some tiles have both water and land in them, which I think is always the most challenging thing when making maps to a specific raster. So it's nice to look at but not really useful for Civ V.
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Old May 31, 2011, 12:59 AM   #73
OsmarChito
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hey gengis kai where can i download the mod ? or u haven't made it yet?
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