Turn Discussion Thread

Lord Parkin · Apr 13, 2010

True about AH, although the Academy won't come for a while. Haven't calculated exactly yet, but it should be somewhere in the turn 60-75 range.

And thanks... I guess I've been spending far too much time on here lately.

azzaman333 · Apr 13, 2010

champinoman said:
Getting up the Academy earlier negates the bonus from skipping AH as well. I keep forgetting it but LP just reminded me yet again that its either whipping OR early academy. You can't really have both.

Edit: Congrats LP on your 5,000th post

Yes you can. It won't be as early, but it'll still be early.

Also, stop focusing on commerce. Working the gold, we'll be researching so fast we won't know what to do with it all. Production is the key.

Lord Parkin · Apr 13, 2010

azzaman333 said:
Also, stop focusing on commerce. Working the gold, we'll be researching so fast we won't know what to do with it all.

That isn't a bad thing though. Better to have heaps of tech and slightly less hammers than less tech and slightly more hammers. If we're first to Catapults or Macemen, it won't matter if we have a few less hammers along the way.

Besides, there's nothing saying we can't switch to Slavery right after we get the Academy and start cracking the whip in our cities.

Irgy · Apr 13, 2010

If it's now 9-4 for worker then I vote we finish the turn and move on (you can call that moving my vote if you like). We can argue this forever but I'd prefer we didn't.

Geting back to it though; you don't whip because you need to, you whip because you can. Sure we might have hills, but if we get more hammers whipping then we should whip. Building a granary then 2 or 3 pop whipping the settler gets the settler out almost as quickly, and gives us a granary.Which is good for more whipping. We have a lot of food, even if we work both gold hills. Whipping is better than growing to 7 and having an unhappy citizen we can't whip into something useful.

Sailing is for a lighthouse, which gives us two food every turn and as such will pay for itself in at least 30 turns. And for a galley to put warriors on the land we can see and start finding those contested city sites that we can't just settle at our leisure.

azzaman333 · Apr 13, 2010

azzaman333 said:
Yes you can. It won't be as early, but it'll still be early.

Also, stop focusing on commerce. Working the gold, we'll be researching so fast we won't know what to do with it all. Production is the key.

Also, don't forget having Slavery allows us to whip in every city. Save the forests, crack the whip! :whip:

EDIT: I'm sure there was a whip smiley, oh well.

Lord Parkin · Apr 13, 2010

In light of the 10-3 vote, I switched to the Worker and ended our turn. Irgy is right that there's no point dragging this out longer when it's clear a consensus has been reached.

So, we're now building a Worker while working the Fish with 8 turns to go until completion. No new tiles revealed this turn. The next major decision will be whether to go The Wheel or Bronze Working first after Mining. I'll double check this tomorrow, but it might be beneficial to go for The Wheel first as long as it doesn't delay any chops, because it will allow us to pre-build a road while moving between the Gold resources instead of pre-building a farm (which will likely be useless since we'll want to cottage all around our capital).

By the way, I realised that the Warrior is automatically moving around the island in a clockwise direction. Sorry if this bothers anyone, I remember there being some discussion about whether to move him counter-clockwise or not. Either way though, it should make no difference in the long run, since we'll reveal it all soon enough anyway.

Spoiler :

azzaman333 · Apr 13, 2010

Worker now is a crap idea and you're all stupid for liking it.

There, I said it.

Lord Parkin · Apr 13, 2010

azzaman333 said:
Worker now is a crap idea and you're all stupid for liking it.

There, I said it.

To each his own...

azzaman333 · Apr 13, 2010

I reserve the right to be ridiculously stubborn on any and every issue I feel like!

champinoman · Apr 13, 2010

In all my latest test games I was researching the wheel before BW and it never delayed the chops. There is plenty of time while mining both golds to get BW done.

Lord Parkin · Apr 13, 2010

azzaman333 said:
I reserve the right to be ridiculously stubborn on any and every issue I feel like!

Absolutely. Indeed I'd encourage you to do so. A healthy debate over which of two (or more) options are better is far more preferable than no debate at all. By arguing amongst ourselves, we figure out better strategies than if we just went with what with one person wanted all the time.

champinoman said:
In all my latest test games I was researching the wheel before BW and it never delayed the chops. There is plenty of time while mining both golds to get BW done.

Okay, that's good to know. I suspected that would be the case. In that case, our tech path for the near future should probably be:

Mining -> The Wheel -> Bronze Working -> Pottery -> Writing

I'll confirm this when I next get the chance to access my test game.

azzaman333 · Apr 13, 2010

Just to revive a couple of things from a couple of pages or two back...

Lord Parkin said:
Size 3 - 2 Fish + Silk; whipped Worker at size 3 as soon as available (1 pop whip)

Why would you work the silk instead of the PHF?

Once again I would like to emphasize that we do not need to switch to Slavery anytime soon. After the building of the Library our capital is at size 4, and we want to grow it to size 6 and keep it there ASAP for the dual scientists. We won't need to use the whip for some time, so there's no sense in wasting a key early turn in anarchy.

Whipping in the 2nd city to make use of its two fish.

If we don't switch to Slavery, we miss out on a very good food to hammer conversion.

champinoman · Apr 13, 2010

azzaman333 said:
Why would you work the silk instead of the PHF?

Because the current build was a worker and 2F1H1C is better than 3H. Why wouldn't we take the extra commerce?

Lord Parkin · Apr 13, 2010

azzaman333 said:
Why would you work the silk instead of the PHF?

This was while building the Worker. The Silk tile gives the same yield as the PHF in terms of production value, but also nets an extra commerce point.

azzaman333 said:
Whipping in the 2nd city to make use of its two fish.

If we don't switch to Slavery, we miss out on a very good food to hammer conversion.

Remember it'll be 5 turns until the borders expand to reach the 2 Fish at the second city. By that time we can have the first Work Boat 1 turn from completion. The second one won't take much longer. Even with Slavery and whipping as soon as the city grows to size 2, it wouldn't get the 2 Fish hooked up much faster.

Lord Parkin · Apr 13, 2010

champinoman said:
Because the current build was a worker and 2F1H1C is better than 3H. Why wouldn't we take the extra commerce?

Heh, champinoman beat me there.

Of course, if we were Expansive I'd take preference to the PHF tile while building the Worker. But since we're not, the Silk is better for the example in question.

azzaman333 · Apr 13, 2010

champinoman said:
Because the current build was a worker and 2F1H1C is better than 3H. Why wouldn't we take the extra commerce?

Oh yeah, we aren't expansive.

My mistake.

Lord Parkin said:
Remember it'll be 5 turns until the borders expand to reach the 2 Fish at the second city. By that time we can have the first Work Boat 1 turn from completion. The second one won't take much longer. Even with Slavery and whipping as soon as the city grows to size 2, it wouldn't get the 2 Fish hooked up much faster.

I'm not talking about getting the work boats out, I'm talking about whipping a library, galleys, workers, other stuff once a granary is chooped.

Lord Parkin · Apr 13, 2010

azzaman333 said:
Oh yeah, we aren't expansive.

My mistake.

No worries, everyone makes them.

azzaman333 said:
I'm not talking about getting the work boats out, I'm talking about whipping a library, galleys, workers, other stuff once a granary is chooped.

Sure, there's nothing stopping us from switching to Slavery at a later date to do this. Indeed I'd probably encourage it. I was just primarily concerned about switching to Slavery pre-turn 50, since we'd only be doing one 1-pop whip, which is kind of a waste for the price of a turn of anarchy.

azzaman333 · Apr 13, 2010

Lord Parkin said:
No worries, everyone makes them.

Sure, there's nothing stopping us from switching to Slavery at a later date to do this. Indeed I'd probably encourage it. I was just primarily concerned about switching to Slavery pre-turn 50, since we'd only be doing one 1-pop whip, which is kind of a waste for the price of a turn of anarchy.

Personally, I think we should revolt while the settler is moving from Sirius to city loc 2 to minimise the losses. The more cities we have when we revolt, the more we lose.

Lord Parkin · Apr 13, 2010

azzaman333 said:
Personally, I think we should revolt while the settler is moving from Sirius to city loc 2 to minimise the losses. The more cities we have when we revolt, the more we lose.

That could still be a possibility, I'd have to test it. That would place our revolt in the late 30's turns, which is still quite a while away. We have plenty of time to think about it.

champinoman · Apr 13, 2010

azzaman333 said:
Personally, I think we should revolt while the settler is moving from Sirius to city loc 2 to minimise the losses. The more cities we have when we revolt, the more we lose.

I agree, and at least this way we have a settler to move and a worker to chop while in revolt. This is better than the original plan to revolt without either of them.

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