shyuhe
Deity
Probably game balance issues. If you give them the wheel, mining, or mysticism, too many human players will use them to rush their neighbors. Even hunting opens up archery earlier.
King of the World #19: Lincoln
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
Probably game balance issues. If you give them the wheel, mining, or mysticism, too many human players will use them to rush their neighbors. Even hunting opens up archery earlier.
drlake
Emperor
I forgot that it didn't have the deer in the beginning. When Neal attacks, should he raze and resettle?
Also, why do the Native Americans (ie plains sioux) start with agriculture and.... fishing?
Because they aren't meant to represent the Sioux directly? While the leader is from the Lakota, if that were the model they wouldn't have agriculture or fishing. They'd probably have Hunting and Mysticism, but that might not be good for game balance. If you look at Native Americans as a whole, the more populous (and in some ways more important) tribes were either agricultural or coastal fishing people.
The real issue is why they decided to make the leader of a civilization that is not based on the Sioux/Lakota Sitting Bull!
SanePerson
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2010
- Messages
- 123
I would attack the Mayans next. In my experience, Pacal does not build many cities or units, so the war should not last very long. It will also give you access to South America, which we have already proved can be watermilled later for insane production- some early work at spawnbusting could allow for some productive cities to facilitate your push into Eurasia.
Mexico City was a prize, but it was a prize under siege. Mayan influence from the south threatened to engulf the starving city, and Aztec pressure from the west meant that the citizens would always grumble about the gringo chains that bound them.
Little could be done about native resentment. Pushing Montezuma back would require a costly war with little to gain. The Aztec military was mighty, and the lands surrounding Mexico City were rocky and barren. But the lush grasslands of the Yucatan and the wealthy Mayan cities built amongst them were worth fighting for, and the decadent Pacal surrounded himself with Spear-wielding Holkans more suited to fighting against wild animals than trained soldiers.
But first, America would need to make significant gains in the fields of science and technology. Years of forging Axes and felling trees to build Catapults had left America strong, but stupid. It was time to seek out the reclusive Inca:
Huayna Capac drove a hard bargain, but Lincoln relented. Of all the civilizations of the New World, only the benighted Aztecs shared Lincoln's ignorance of this crucial technology. Now not only could Spies be recruited to aid in warfare, but trades could now be made with our one-time foe.
And what better technology to sell to the Aztecs than the boon we'd just claimed from the Inca?
With Sailing in hand, America's coasts could once more be defended. Galley construction began in New York, and Work Boats once again plied the waves.
But the Barbarian raiders were only a minor sidelight, for Lincoln was ready to claim Central America:
Mexico City suffered mightily with the city of Mutal choking off its agricultural lowlands. The people starved, and it was with a heavy heart that Lincoln consented to spare a full half of them the slow death of famine by throwing them into the completion of a Library.
The only course of action available was to take Mutal itself:
The city would never be a major production center, but its rich towns and bountiful fisheries would make it a great source of wealth.
Of course, the taking of Mutal only pushed back Mayan cultural pressure. Now Mutal was under siege from the new capitol of Lakamha:
So Lincoln did the only thing he could, and claimed this city as well.
The twists and turns of the Central American isthmus rendered Pacal's South American cities too distant to completely starve out Lakamha. And, besides, the Maya were now a broken people, and Lincoln's troops would likely be needed once again in the north. So when Pacal indicated that he was willing to trade technological secrets for the lives of his people, the American leader was willing to listen:
So with that declaration of peace, I decided to end the round. A bit abbreviated, yes, but, well, I don't have a lot of time today
and this is as good a spot as any to regroup and consider strategy.
America now stretches from Maine to Panama:
The Aztecs have taken Cuba and, with it, South Florida but, at this point, they're welcome to it. We'll let them deal with building infrastructure in that productionless swamp and take it when we're damned good and ready.
Techwise we are, of course, still behind:
This is Immortal, after all. And we kind of had a sucky start. And if that's the tech screen of the Americas, I shudder to think of what the Old World must look like. They're probably researching Rocketry at this point.
Anyway, that's where we stand. What should our next tech target be? Is it time to go Machinery/Compass/Optics? Any trades we should make? Workers are definitely in the plans for the next round. Anything else? Here's the save:
Little could be done about native resentment. Pushing Montezuma back would require a costly war with little to gain. The Aztec military was mighty, and the lands surrounding Mexico City were rocky and barren. But the lush grasslands of the Yucatan and the wealthy Mayan cities built amongst them were worth fighting for, and the decadent Pacal surrounded himself with Spear-wielding Holkans more suited to fighting against wild animals than trained soldiers.
But first, America would need to make significant gains in the fields of science and technology. Years of forging Axes and felling trees to build Catapults had left America strong, but stupid. It was time to seek out the reclusive Inca:
Huayna Capac drove a hard bargain, but Lincoln relented. Of all the civilizations of the New World, only the benighted Aztecs shared Lincoln's ignorance of this crucial technology. Now not only could Spies be recruited to aid in warfare, but trades could now be made with our one-time foe.
And what better technology to sell to the Aztecs than the boon we'd just claimed from the Inca?
With Sailing in hand, America's coasts could once more be defended. Galley construction began in New York, and Work Boats once again plied the waves.
But the Barbarian raiders were only a minor sidelight, for Lincoln was ready to claim Central America:
Mexico City suffered mightily with the city of Mutal choking off its agricultural lowlands. The people starved, and it was with a heavy heart that Lincoln consented to spare a full half of them the slow death of famine by throwing them into the completion of a Library.
The only course of action available was to take Mutal itself:
The city would never be a major production center, but its rich towns and bountiful fisheries would make it a great source of wealth.
Of course, the taking of Mutal only pushed back Mayan cultural pressure. Now Mutal was under siege from the new capitol of Lakamha:
So Lincoln did the only thing he could, and claimed this city as well.
The twists and turns of the Central American isthmus rendered Pacal's South American cities too distant to completely starve out Lakamha. And, besides, the Maya were now a broken people, and Lincoln's troops would likely be needed once again in the north. So when Pacal indicated that he was willing to trade technological secrets for the lives of his people, the American leader was willing to listen:
So with that declaration of peace, I decided to end the round. A bit abbreviated, yes, but, well, I don't have a lot of time today
and this is as good a spot as any to regroup and consider strategy. America now stretches from Maine to Panama:
The Aztecs have taken Cuba and, with it, South Florida but, at this point, they're welcome to it. We'll let them deal with building infrastructure in that productionless swamp and take it when we're damned good and ready.
Techwise we are, of course, still behind:
This is Immortal, after all. And we kind of had a sucky start. And if that's the tech screen of the Americas, I shudder to think of what the Old World must look like. They're probably researching Rocketry at this point.
Anyway, that's where we stand. What should our next tech target be? Is it time to go Machinery/Compass/Optics? Any trades we should make? Workers are definitely in the plans for the next round. Anything else? Here's the save:
Yared
That Guy
Since you have yet to be contacted by a wandering caravel, I think it's safe to say they're not researching it 
Good that you took San José, since all of your cities are on the east coast.
Good that you took San José, since all of your cities are on the east coast.
LegioCorvus
Prince
All that riverside grassland, and so few workers... 
That should probably be your next goal. Chopping those forests will get your infrastructure & army back online, and the ton of cottages you can get down the East Coast will really boost your research.
War options don't look great. Monty's only good land is probably Seattle. Sitting Bull seems the most obvious, but without Machinery, you're going to have to throw a lot of suicide Catapults at him. Catapults will eat his Dog Soldiers alive, but those damn CGIII/Drill Archers... which may soon be CGIII/Drill Longbowmen.
My vote is to get your potentially massive economy online, aim for a Philosophy bulb (which will slowdown the worldwide Liberalism race and be great trade bait), and start setting up suicide Catapults to throw at SB.
P.S. Great screen shots that round. I love the bewildered and hopeful look of Monty in that trade, and the puppy dog eyes of Pacal right before you declared war on him. Even Capac's look of uncertainty in his eyes on the trade was amusing.
That should probably be your next goal. Chopping those forests will get your infrastructure & army back online, and the ton of cottages you can get down the East Coast will really boost your research.
War options don't look great. Monty's only good land is probably Seattle. Sitting Bull seems the most obvious, but without Machinery, you're going to have to throw a lot of suicide Catapults at him. Catapults will eat his Dog Soldiers alive, but those damn CGIII/Drill Archers... which may soon be CGIII/Drill Longbowmen.
My vote is to get your potentially massive economy online, aim for a Philosophy bulb (which will slowdown the worldwide Liberalism race and be great trade bait), and start setting up suicide Catapults to throw at SB.
P.S. Great screen shots that round. I love the bewildered and hopeful look of Monty in that trade, and the puppy dog eyes of Pacal right before you declared war on him. Even Capac's look of uncertainty in his eyes on the trade was amusing.
capnvonbaron
Democratia gladii
Canal city! Woohoo!
Really nice job there, Neal. This KOtW is being very well played so far. I must say, a few espionage tech steals and some good trades and you'll be in great shape when the old world comes knocking.
I'd say work toward feudalism and take Pacal, Monty, and HC as vassals. Then kill SB just for pleasure/historical accuracy (not to mention his "mean tempered uselessness"). Let the goons tech for you while you construct an army that would strike fear into the heart of Sid himself!
Pieman
Prince
Well played. Now it's time for some roast bull.
Coffee Mug
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2009
- Messages
- 89
Nicely done. I didn't think taking central America would be that easy.
I'd be leery of heading towards feudalism; the AI likes to get there early, and that will reduce your trading opportunities significantly. Either liberalism (education is great trade bait) or optics would be good choices. (A guess: a lot of the civs in the Old World, and Europe especially, are basically running an OCC. They'll be reaching their apogees now, and will have a big lead, but without the ability to keep it.)
I suppose my vote would be for your proposed machinery->optics path while rebuilding your army and scouting out Sitting Bull's land.
I'd be leery of heading towards feudalism; the AI likes to get there early, and that will reduce your trading opportunities significantly. Either liberalism (education is great trade bait) or optics would be good choices. (A guess: a lot of the civs in the Old World, and Europe especially, are basically running an OCC. They'll be reaching their apogees now, and will have a big lead, but without the ability to keep it.)
I suppose my vote would be for your proposed machinery->optics path while rebuilding your army and scouting out Sitting Bull's land.
Oh, and I know this is probably a bit (or a lot) premature, but from which direction should we hit Eurasia? Europe will probably be a lot of easy-pickings OCCs, but, in my experience, Asia has a better chance of not being part of the One-World-Religion lovefest and, therefore, a bit more isolated. In addition, we already took the Euro path in the Sitting Bull game, so there's variety to think about. And, yeah, we'll need an idea of what the Old World looks like before we nail down final plans, but what are your preliminary thoughts?
Yared
That Guy
Japan. Tokugawa is never really liked.
It really is premature, but I'd suggest going after Izzy first in Europe (if the backlash won't be too bad). Madrid is settled inland, which means she can't actually attack you if she doesn't have a decent port city
It really is premature, but I'd suggest going after Izzy first in Europe (if the backlash won't be too bad). Madrid is settled inland, which means she can't actually attack you if she doesn't have a decent port city
It would be interesting to not go to asia through europe or even east asia. On Rhye's and Fall, I once did a massive amphibious invasion of the entire middle east in one turn. Granted it was not immortal, but that way you would have three options.
1. Head east into india and then china.
2. Head west into europe.
3. Head southwest to africa.
You could head north but the land there is not as good. Also, the only problem I forsee is the fact that you would be surrounded by people on 3 sides. May be a bit much, expeccially if you went with the original two ideas of either europe or china.
May not be a good idea but you wanted different ideas. The AI usually founds a city in the persian gulf near bagdahd, so that is where I would start if you go this route.
1. Head east into india and then china.
2. Head west into europe.
3. Head southwest to africa.
You could head north but the land there is not as good. Also, the only problem I forsee is the fact that you would be surrounded by people on 3 sides. May be a bit much, expeccially if you went with the original two ideas of either europe or china.
May not be a good idea but you wanted different ideas. The AI usually founds a city in the persian gulf near bagdahd, so that is where I would start if you go this route.
IAM
Emperor
Neal, Neal, Neal
This is America! We need a two front war hit England and Japan simotaneously!whats a navy
Prince
silentounce
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2008
- Messages
- 83
Actually, historically, England, Carthage, Japan, and Spain should all come before Germany. Pretty much in that order, too.
elizabells
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 31, 2009
- Messages
- 7
The WWII North African front? Maybe? That's all I can come up with.
Duke Blackstone
John Marchman
America fought with the Mediterranean pirates right after England. They were charging European nations huge sums for safe passage and the U.S. said hell no and stationed some frigates off the coast. We invaded Algiers at one point too i think. Our first real struggle against terrorists. Someone needs to verify all that though, thats just what i remember from history class.
Duke Blackstone
John Marchman
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