SGOTM 11 - Plastic Ducks

OK for the micro plan.

I suggest not moving the warriors until Vijay pops the border. There is a risk that warrior get killed when heading south and leaves Vijay unguarded.

You're probably right about the warrior, it is safer to just wait

I'll wait for one more "go!" and... go!

Yep, sounds good to me.

If no barbs are around, sure go find our 5 fishes otherwise as dingding said.

Fishing is the next tech indeed.

Technically this is 3 'go' out of 4.5 (Udey1 is busy until the 13th and Duckweed should be back in some hours) so I see no reason not to play when you can.

I'm a bit late, but a couple of minor points.

T75 Why not just chop SW of Bombay.. that's where our road to the west is going later I'd assume, so it could save a turn later on.

T81 If there's overflow from Writing, might as well put it into Maths while slider at 0%, then switch to fishing (I see you have 1 overflow, so probably not that important )

Ofcourse.. that'd require you to test if it makes sense (no time now), but you all decide I'm good.

Good luck!

Ok, that is played ! And the save is uploaded.

Confu was founded in Bombay.
We have met Justinian. He sent a workboat from the western islands.
Zara is teching Sailing. There may be competition for the GLH ?
No other wonder has been built, yet.
I was craving to move warriors... well, I did Our NE warrior defeated a barb and then retreated inside our borders. The WMII warrior has taken its place on the front.
I have NOT openned borders, yet.

Official log :


Screenies :



EDIT :
Erf... Sorry Bugg, just saw your post.
While you are right (1SW was probably a better choice...), I've played already...

Excellent work!

Which forest was pre-chopped doesn't matter that much imo, both will have to go at some point anyway.

I'll update the test game and sort out some info on Justinian (interesting that he did not get Buddhism) after dinner.

Alright here's the test game.

A few notes:
-I didn't swap MM for Justinian... it really doesn't change much in terms of testing tbh as we have no idea what techs he has vs. MM in the test game. Moreover it's a big hassle to change everything as I need to go back to t0 to do it without losing hammers on builds.
-Zara's capital went from 5 to 3 during the last set and he's in Slavery so he whipped a settler... expect a city soon probably east of Delhi as per the test game.
-I gave Zara Sailing to approximately simulate his research (he's 2 turns from BW so it's close). He has an archer queued so he's not getting a head start on GLH
-AI-to-AI relations:
Zara is Pleased with Justinian right off the bat (+4)
Justinian is Pleased with Zara right off the bat (+3)

~~~

Next tech is definitely Fishing, we need to get that workboat out like yesterday.
Need to get a better feel for Sailing vs Masonry next but I guess Sailing now is better for trade routes and earlier Lighthouse? It also allows workers to do more things in the meantime (roads, chops, farms, pasture cows)

Justinian
NoWarProbs: 0/30/80/100/100
MaxWarRang: 100
MaxNearbyPowerRatio: 110%
MaxDistantPowerRatio: 70%
UnitProb: 35
Required Attitude for bribing: Friendly
Maximum Attitude for DoWing them: Cautious
Religion: +7
Share War: +4
Share Civic: +5 (Theocracy)
Open Borders: Annoyed
Trade Techs: Annoyed, 30% must know
WFYABTA: 15 (Emperor bonus?) /// Need to check
Trade resource: Annoyed (Luxury/Health); Pleased (Strategic)
Trade maps: Cautious
Stop Trading with us: Friendly
Stop Trading with them: Cautious
Convert Religion: never
Convert Civic: Pleased
Vassal: Friendly
Def. Pact: Friendly
Peaceweight: 4, +1 base, +1 warmonger respect
Builds wonders: 30

How many GPs do we want before revolting back into slavery ? Duckweed seems to want 2 of them...
If that's our line, it would take at least 14 turns. (not working the silver : 3 scientist for the 1st turn, then 5 for 13 turns... just tried it and had 2 prophets, hahaha !)

This gives us all the time we want to research our 3 techs AND road+quarry the stone - 5 turns with 3 workers.
If we hire "only" 4 scientists, we'll have more time. Around 17 turns iirc.

--> If we want 2 GPs, Masonry isn't so much of a hurry.
Trade routes with Zara don't require further exploration. Sailing > Masonry.

Masonry-related : when would we chop ? As soon as the quarry is built ? Or when we get to Maths ? If we are waiting for Maths, Masonry becomes even less pressing.
Without Maths, chopping ALL the forests around Delhi roughly completes the Pyramids. But... that is ALL the forests.

Slavery-related : I think our workboat will have to be whipped.
The way I did it was Vijay grows to 3, hires an artist (Confu took looooong to spread), borders pop/2nd GP --> whip wb into Lighthouse.

If we don't connect the Cows to our network, Vijay becomes unhealthy at size 4.


I think the main stake for the next set is to synchro GP appearance with our development.

Delhi :
I queued a Chariot to... to queue something.
1 turn in the ToA and then starting a confu Temple (to be whipped) looks good to me.
Starting a Library would also make sense. We will want one badly after the Pyramids are done.

Bombay :
Borrowing a fp from Vijay could take it to size 3 quite fast. It has a hill to work at size 3.

Good job BIC

Don't mind the forest.. it'll come down soon enough anyways

Zara teching sailing isn't a "problem"... if he queues Masonry next, we'll know he tries for it I think. But we'll still get it 1100BC, so he won't beat us to it, right?

Zara will probably expand a bit now I think, he really hasn't so far. I certainly hope he does anyway, being Organized he'll be fast to start GLH.

Good job!

1) Zara wasn't going for SH. Bite me! He built warriors and barrack. He should have whipped a settler at the previous turn. Watch him.

2) Apparently Justine is isolated, putting all the EP on us.

3) The next turns will be simple as well. We may stop at the first GP, or in 15 turns. We discuss it when Duck is available. Undoubtedly we need a lot of TESTS now for the best dates of WB+GLH.

4) Justine's WB went north? Good, let him discover the other AIs for us. We need 1-2 WB before GLH, 1 Gallery afterwards. But if Zara went directly to Masonry, the WB can be dropped.

Oh well... we'll get the failure gold from SH soon anyway I think which is good for us.
Good observation on Justinian, didn't check that in the save.

Let's get cracking on tests. Fastest wb+GLH as dingding said... try to remember how you did it too

For Pyramids: the earlier they are done the better. I don't think we should chop every forest around Delhi we can leave at least 2 for health purposes.

kossin said:

We're so lucky so far it's insane... what's next, we pop gems in one of the grassland mines?

Click to expand...

Where's the luck? I don't see it, even a forest growing in city radius. I agree that this map was cooked somehow, but obvious no more than SGOTM10, which you could see 2 gold mines from the start.

Good play, BIC. Do you want to continue to the 1st GP?

BTW, have you looked at the culture and power graphs? which tells something interesting. For instance, Fifth Element pursued religion 1st and surprisingly they made it through at least 3 religious leaders! They chose the right tech and 3 AIs chose another, the odd is 6.25%. One Short Straw completed Oracle ~2200 and took MC or Monarchy.

^^ We made the right decisions which is lucky to some part imo. Settling PH gave silver, settling copper and growing to size 2+AH gave horses.

~~~

I took a peek at the graph... surprising someone managed Hinduism here.
I'm guessing OSS took MC... I'd be surprised if someone didn't attempt Pyramids here.

I'll let you all come up with a really good Mids+GLH date, can't do better right now.

EDIT:
Right now I'm at 1100BC (Getting priest as second gp against the odds, it slows down our research a notch, obviously) or 1075BC with Academy as well but I just feel it should be possible to get at least 1100BC or better here. 4 cities.

In both cases I'm leaving at least 2 forests around Delhi, getting Mids 1325BC, which is a bit later than I like, but....

I think those dates are fine tbh... it's 1950BC and no SH built yet.

I've toyed around a bit but can't match your dates on GLH... must be doing something wrong I guess.

IDK.. GLH is more like an 8-9 turn build (with overflow from LH).

I think I start GLH about T108 (At size 4) to complete 116-117 (Chopping once into LH for overflow). I also whip some of the WB into LH (at close to size 3).

T108 40/300

Then you chop in 2x44 and 20, and about 58 from confu temple (Total 206/300)

You can probably whip in the last 15 (221/300), so you only need to put ~79 hammers into it. Vijay produces 13/turn = 7 turns of building GLH + 1 turn whipping temple. And it does leave us with Vijay at size 1 (so all resources used up to get there).

Okay I see it now... I've managed 1100BC GLH as well.

Going to try a few variants to see if I can manage it faster. Monotheism would certainly make it faster but it's an ~8 turns detour.