SGOTM 11 - One Short Straw

It looks like one team founded an early religion, and one team may have built a wonder. Based on the score graph, it looks like the ducks are going for early expansion as compared to our strategy.

Well, Played until my next check point.
Made one darn mistake, press chop on wrong forest, delaying second library by one turn. I do not know yet will it effect final date or not.

I am not perfect

Otherwise nothing happened, except warrior moved next to our fog-busting warrior.

Fight or not? our warrior is fully fortified (25% defense bonus).

We have reserve warrior in second city to send and axe will be finished soon.



Zara went Mining-BW

save is up

Nice set so far!

I vote to pull the warrior back and defend from a forest.

I'm OK with you finishing up the CS sling without much more discussion - I imagine there will be some magic mutineer micromanaging (MMM) with the scientists in Bombay to finish oracle and CoL on the same turn, no?

EDIT: I don't think the warrior on the northern forest hill is actually doing any fogbusting now that Bombay borders have popped and that mountain is inside our cultural boundary. Maybe we should move him over to help bust the flood plains site.

A few questions (I can't see the save). Have any additional wonders or religions been built/founded? Since Justinian doesn't have Buddhism, I'm guessing that at least one of the other AI on this map is either HRE or India. Or maybe HC, now that I think about it.

The barb warrior will function as spawnbust for any cities in that area, so I'm fine moving him away. Since we're going to get our axe soon though, I'm fine taking a gamble on the warrior fight.

shyuhe said:

A few questions (I can't see the save). Have any additional wonders or religions been built/founded? Since Justinian doesn't have Buddhism, I'm guessing that at least one of the other AI on this map is either HRE or India. Or maybe HC, now that I think about it.

The barb warrior will function as spawnbust for any cities in that area, so I'm fine moving him away. Since we're going to get our axe soon though, I'm fine taking a gamble on the warrior fight.

Click to expand...

Nothing happened at all. Judaism is still open and no wanders build at all.

I would have inform if something like that happened.

Mutineer, Zara still hasn't built his city. How about moving a pair of warriors to fogbust the fps? You have good fogbusting going on around Bombay. Then you could also stop building the axe build in Delhi with 1t to go and start a settler, since Delhi is growing anyway. Just thought.

EDIT: also, the 2fish sentry could dodge the barb, if u want. Letting the barb live means no chance of a barb archer spawning in its place.

When we get Bureaucracy (10 turns) We can Use my(TN) bureaucracy settler whip trick.

If we build settler in our configuration for 1 turn, then in bureaucracy we can whip it for 3 pop,
Creating something between 50-60 base hammers overflow, which under bureaucracy bonus let as build granary in 1 turn.

In one of my game I grow capital to size 12 before getting bureaucracy, then using settler whip trick build 5 expensive wanders before running out of happiness. In mean time I slowly build pallace in my commercial city. I had a lot of room to expand We practically in same situation, but happiness limited. better discuss it later, but I am for building mids in capital using settler overflow. Mids will give as happiness we need (We really will be happiness limited.


I will play now, I want to finish it. I am sorry it si it too fast, but I feel too mach pressure and want to finish it.
If we want to try to claim river side hopping zara does not build settler, we can do that. It is fastest.
I think I will move north warrior along the cost exploring and going in direction of FP site, Move second warrior form second city in zara direction to look around.

Prepare settler whip trick on last turn before bureaucracy.

Go for it!

Zara may have researched sailing before mining. Watch for a galley. Also, you can watch zaras sabotage prod, if it keeps growing, he may be building TGL.

Oh yeah...make a note of the difference in sab prod for two consecutive turns. That can tell us if he's building a settler or something else.

EDIT: The sab prod should be about +94 for a settler/wkr and +33 for anything else between 1925bc and 1900 bc. Depends on his MM somewhat.

I think it sounds fine to play through the CS sling (feel free to revolt before passing the save). We're going to have to re-analyze the situation at that point to see what we want to do.

ok, did it.

My gafe did effect speed by one turn was lucking 1 beaker LoL

Still Oracle build 1700BC

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1925 BC to 1675 BC:

Turn 83, 1925 BC: Judaism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 84, 1900 BC: Zara Yaqob adopts Slavery!

Turn 85, 1875 BC: You have trained a Axeman in Delhi. Work has now begun on Stonehenge.

Turn 90, 1750 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Gandhi's Axeman 1 (Delhi) (5.00)
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Combat Odds: 5.2%
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 1 (Delhi) has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Gandhi's Axeman 1 (Delhi) (7.50)
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Combat Odds: 0.0%
Turn 90, 1750 BC: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 36 (64/100HP)
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 36 (28/100HP)
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 1 (Delhi) is hit for 11 (89/100HP)
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 36 (0/100HP)
Turn 90, 1750 BC: Gandhi's Axeman 1 (Delhi) has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 92, 1700 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Bombay.
Turn 92, 1700 BC: Confucianism has been founded in Bombay!
Turn 92, 1700 BC: You have discovered Code of Laws!
Turn 92, 1700 BC: Gandhi has completed The Oracle!

Turn 93, 1675 BC: Bombay has become unhealthy.
Turn 93, 1675 BC: You have discovered Civil Service!
Turn 93, 1675 BC: Gandhi adopts Bureaucracy!

Save is up

Mutineer - do you mind posting some empire wide shots? I'd like to see what things look like but I can't open the save...

Mutineer, when did Zara settle Gondor? Was that just a couple turns after he poprushed a few turns ago? The imbecile settled down there on the tundra...

dane danr darn..
I am sorry, I did not check we are in slavery and we were not by some reason???

So we are not in slavery and can not revolt.

Land

Pm from Erkon:

Erkon said:

Could you please forward the following to your thread, since I don't want to post directly:

Ras, I am sure your plan to trick me into revealing map details would have worked much better if you had remembered to bring your wallet when it was time to pay the bill, right? Furthermore, my French colleagues told me the day after that entering a fountain was not a tradition, as you claimed it was. Don't blame me if your turn set is cursed!

Click to expand...

Ras, you got us cursed, dammit. Oh yeah, there was also this:

Mutineer said:

dane danr darn..
I am sorry, I did not check we are in slavery and we were not by some reason???

So we are not in slavery and can not revolt.

Click to expand...

That's a big bummer but we just live with it and move on. We're still smoking, imo.

Mutineer, very well done on the CS slingshot!!!​

Yeah, great job mutineer

That'll give the other teams something to chew on, how to top that CS sling

I made a possible dotmap:



I think we should focus on expansion right now, Mutineer's Buerocracy Whip Trick (tm) sounds good to me I would settle green dot next as it has a resource in its inner ring and a bunch of others in its second ring

Teching: We should do some backfilling, what about masonry > AH > fishing.

We can open borders with zara to find out more about his land. I think we should've done that already earlier.

As expected just and zara also met. This means less EP pressure from zara on us and we can now focus on just to see his graphs, we have around 50 EPs on zara to spare (to see his research).

We should fire one of the scientists in bombay to have delhi produce its GS first and then shut down GPs in delhi completely and focus only on cottages.

Worker should start farming until we finish masonry. Since Bombay is atm at +1 food we should have it build a settler and switch to granary once the FP farm is done, "growing" on +1F takes forever.

I think our warriors should have a closer look at the coast before fortifying so we are sure we aren't missing any seafood.

yes, expand expand, where first I do not know.

I would probably fire all specialists after discovery of masonry for now.
Change production to worker in capital, so In 5 turns when we can revolt to slavery we can whip settler with max overflow, finish granary and trow overflow into mids.
second city? I am not sure... we probably do not need any more military unit.. there still 1 barb warrior wandering around north of zara and that's all.
yes, probably other worker in second city. yes, city will grow very slow, probably does not need granary. Capital will use booth of food now until it finish whip/grow cycle.

But Now I am relaxing and go out. Have fun sorting out wresk I left

Indeed. pulling off the CS sling! We should be in a good position now, especially considering the date we managed to get it.

Before I forget:
me
babybluepants
mushroomshirt
Silu
Mutineer
mystyfly - UP
mdy (on deck)
RRRaskolnikov
LowtherCastle (lurking)

and thanks for the pics guys, now I can give some semi-sensible comments

I think we're probably all in agreement that the GP farm-ish double fish+pig+cow site is next. That city will need a granary, library, and NE - probably not anything else for the foreseeable future. It will also need at least two workboats, probably one more for exploration. So I think it will need a worker to chop some forests. But that makes us a bit short on workers...

I see the confucian missionary going to Delhi. Do we want to save him for mysty's green dot? The alternative to popping borders is caste, but that will prevent us from whipping for 5 turns which may not work with our bureau-slave plan.

The warrior to the east is now free to move - those tiles are all busted from the culture borders so we can move him north to keep that area free from barb cities. Do we want to consider the river as city #4 since Zara doesn't seem to keen on settling it? The other candidates I see for #4 are the wheat/cow to the north or the clams to the NW.

And what of the pyramids, assuming we're going for it? If we go for the pyramids (given the current wonder dates), we should ditch cottages outside of Delhi and just farm everything. Actually given how much Delhi will get slaved, we should probably just plant farms anyways to speed up re-growth.

Is there any way we can utilize the fact that we won't be in slavery for 5 turns? The first thing that comes to mind is that we should just grow Delhi as big as we can for now. The other alternative is to put one turn of hammers into a settler and the rest into a granary, so that we can whip the settler upon revolting and overflow the granary. We can build a few more warriors (I think we need another 2, maybe 3 for good measure?) after the granary during the grow/whip cycle.

edit: Bombay has a grass hill, stone, grass copper, and a plains hill. Would it be better staying at size 5-6 and slow building stuff? It should only need the FP farm to stagnate at that size and it'll have a good hammer base (+1+3+4+4+4=16 hpt). This will free up the corn for Delhi.

Great news on getting CS in 1675B.C.!

I think our next priorities need to be settling all the sits on our island that we want, and then exploration to open up trade routes with Justinian. We also need to know if there are any sites we want to settle on the islands before someone else settles them, especially if they have one of the needed resource.

We seem to have 3 excellent city sites, the one we were planning to settle, the 3 clam-marble-cow site (a second GP farm), and the floodplain rice site.

We will also probably want a city to work the crab, one to get the deer to the south, one for the two silvers, and possibly one by the wheat to the north if we can beat Zara there..

Techwise I was thinking masonry-fishing-animal husbandry-sailing which should give us all needed basic techs.

If the capital builds the granary, then whips a settler for 3pop (some micro needed), then build the Pyramids whilst regrowing again and then performing another 3pop whip for another settler, and the second city switches to a settler which is whipped for 2 pop then we should have 3 settlers and the Pyramids within 25T if we put 3 chops into it.

This will regrettably delay the Academy, but in the short term REX is more important.

I think we're probably all in agreement that the GP farm-ish double fish+pig+cow site is next. That city will need a granary, library, and NE - probably not anything else for the foreseeable future. It will also need at least two workboats, probably one more for exploration. So I think it will need a worker to chop some forests. But that makes us a bit short on workers

Click to expand...

I agree that this should be our next site, but the limited No of forests may be best saved for chopping the NE. We may also want/need a courthouse there too. We could start building a worker in city 2 after whipping a settler which would ensure that there were no worker shortages for a while.

I see the confucian missionary going to Delhi. Do we want to save him for mysty's green dot? The alternative to popping borders is caste, but that will prevent us from whipping for 5 turns which may not work with our bureau-slave plan.

Click to expand...

Our religion will probably spread to all our cities and the AI's fairly quickly, so I think we should save our free missionary to spread religion to a city where it wouldn'd spread naturally. It would take a bit of micromanagement but by alternating between Caste System and Slavery we can expand our borders by artist and still do a whip fuelled expansion.

The warrior to the east is now free to move - those tiles are all busted from the culture borders so we can move him north to keep that area free from barb cities. Do we want to consider the river as city #4 since Zara doesn't seem to keen on settling it? The other candidates I see for #4 are the wheat/cow to the north or the clams to the NW.

Click to expand...

I agree, the clams site is probably the next best one after the pigs/clams.

And what of the pyramids, assuming we're going for it? If we go for the pyramids (given the current wonder dates), we should ditch cottages outside of Delhi and just farm everything. Actually given how much Delhi will get slaved, we should probably just plant farms anyways to speed up re-growth.

Click to expand...

I agree with no cottages outside of Delhi, with 2 corns and a granary there would be little real benefit in building more farms.


eidt: Does anyone know when barb galleys start becoming a problem on Emperor? If they are early we might want to explore with galleys instead of workboats.