SGOTM 11 - One Short Straw

I can play through till sailing (or anything unexpected happens) tomorrow according to LC's plan if we have a consensus on that.

Yee, go ahead.

Go ahead, mdy.

I am just curious, what teams sitting on 3000BC are doing?
On a side note, combination of culture, power and score tell me that no other teams went after CS shot soo far.

Sometimes teams just don't end up getting enough participation. They're not posting very much, either.
I guess it's possible Phoenix did it, too, but I think it's unlikely.

babybluepants said:

I guess it's possible Phoenix did it, too, but I think it's unlikely.

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Do not think so, they got vertical score increase, like from getting expensive tech from oracle + Oracle itself, but no correspondent power jump. CS adding power I believe.

No, but Math does. They could've gotten Math in the previous set, and just be an axe short compared to us (6k for axe).

Edit:
Actually, I just looked. Their last score hike is 34, which corresponds to Oracle (16) and a third-level tech (18), such as Civil Service. Maybe I'm wrong, though...

Edit2: They could have also Oracled COL and grown 1 pop.

Edit3: The spike happened in one turn. I was under the impression that the Oracle and free tech technically occur on different turns, but there's no other way I can think of they could spike that much, so I guess they're on the same.

No I do not buy it. There culture were growing faster then ours and ours was form 2 libraries + 1 obelisk.

It is only possible with wander and there are not enough production for that.

So, I do not believe they got CS.

I somehow don't think they did, either, just not sure what they did...
Their culture pace you're referring to is 9-10cpt T76 - T94. That's not enough for SH, unless if they built it mid-set. Mainly, I don't see how they could generate 34 points in one turn other then:
1) Oracle CS
2) Oracle COL + 1 Pop
3) Second-tier tech + 3 Pop (!) + some land counting (unlikely scenario)
I personally think COL is the most likely, but there's no way to really confirm.
I guess this also doesn't matter a whole lot. I'm just a touch bored tonight...

I've played. The capital seems to be consistently 1 tun behind the posted MM plan. Due to a slight error on my part (roading the horses instead of the tile 1S) the 2 workers around fish city are 1 turn behind schedule.

One thing I have just noticed about LC's plan is that there is a small risk of getting an engineer, as the pyramids are built before the GP points are evaluated. I think we need to adjust the plan to take account of this, but we are probably looking at a T118 Academy and a T119 Pyramids.

I changed the chopping schedule about the Oasis city slightly due to the barb warrior. The hill forest 2W of the Oasis city now has just 1T of chopping left to do.

There is nothing of interest to the S, however there is a landmass to the East of Zara.

Had a look at the save. I'm not too familliar with our MM plan but I'm not convinced building a granary and not working the pig in 2fish is that good. Is that WB in oasis about to scout... north?

We should probably split EPs again as we now know justs graphs and zaras research.

We are keeping research at 0% now until the academy completes (should the next GP be a GS), right?

Zara still has but 2 cities, anyone has a clue what he's doing??

Nice to find that fish up north (near the horses), together with the incense this will make another decent city

I think we should try to sneak that missionary to justinian with a galley or just use him on zara to boost relations with us.

Are we not getting TRs with just now we have sailing if we OB because we don't know where he is? Because if we did we should OB immediately.

Did you play your set beforehand on LC's testsave mdy?

As I still don't have civ access, mind posting some pictures for this poor soul?

OK, a few notes. I see island right of zara.

I think our Oasis WB better go there exploring first.

Zara does not has writing and I suspect no other AI has writing, so if any other AI on other side of Zara we would not know, unless we send WB there.

Second, from Demographic, we are fourth, with some AI producing 36/turn, double of ours.

the only explanation for such high production is wander production with help of special resource.

There are only 2 early wanders open, Toa and Mids.

WE are risking loosing Mids. I am in favor of stooping producing academy in favor of growing capital to 6 and whipping settler with max overflow ASP and building Mids ASP. So what we get small chance of get GE? Loosing mids will be disastrous. Delayed academy would not.

Thurd,

Zara has 4 archers + settler +Galley in capital. I think we better keep warrior there and keep eye on settler, so next settler go depends on where zara going. May be get ready to close borders if zara send it in Galley around in our direction.

Zara can get to North Horses/fish site with out galley, even better we have settler ready for that.


Fourth,

2 fish city better switch to work Pigs, it will grow in 2 turns resuming working Cows again.

Ohh and I see no reason not to adopt Conf in order to increase happiness in capital.

Second, from Demographic, we are fourth, with some AI producing 36/turn, double of ours.

the only explanation for such high production is wander production with help of special resource.

There are only 2 early wanders open, Toa and Mids.

WE are risking loosing Mids. I am in favor of stooping producing academy in favor of growing capital to 6 and whipping settler with max overflow ASP and building Mids ASP. So what we get small chance of get GE? Loosing mids will be disastrous. Delayed academy would not.

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No we are not. If you look at our production figures you will see that the stone bonus, and the bureaucracy bonus are not included in the manufactured goods demographic. A far more likely explanation is that a settler/worker is being built in a high seafood capital.

Had a look at the save. I'm not too familliar with our MM plan but I'm not convinced building a granary and not working the pig in 2fish is that good. Is that WB in oasis about to scout... north?

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We are working the cows because the pigs have only just been built, I agree that we can switch now. The workboat could scout either to the East or North, it is difficult to see which would be more useful, but we should have another in a couple of turns, so it should not matter much.

Did you play your set beforehand on LC's testsave mdy?

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I did play the first few turns on it.

I have attatched some screenshots.

mdy said:

The capital seems to be consistently 1 tun behind the posted MM plan.

Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean here. It looks like you're on schedule, except for the pigs worker, who will be late to chop, which will delay the Mids to T118.

mdy said:

One thing I have just noticed about LC's plan is that there is a small risk of getting an engineer, as the pyramids are built before the GP points are evaluated. I think we need to adjust the plan to take account of this, but we are probably looking at a T118 Academy and a T119 Pyramids.

Click to expand...

Pity I didn't know about this factor (GS at 98.7%), because I had another MM that got the GS on T116 and the Mids on T117. I didn't mention it because it was more complicated and produced somewhat less gold and beakers.

Still, you don't need to change anything on my MM and still get everything per the plan except the mids a turn later.

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Now, if we still want to get the mids on T117, I see 2 choices:
1. GS at 98.7%. We simply send both pigs workers to chop at Delhi.
2. GS at ~93%. We MM to grow to pop6 this turn, then work plenty of hammers and 3pop the settler as per the plan.

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Agree with Mutineer: wb scout to the east. If it dead-ends, the wb is back sooner. If not, then we're meeting AIs and moving on circumnavigation sooner.

I would put all our EPs on Zara so we can eventually steal some tech or another.

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Updated test save below. Pls let me know if you see anything I can change that's different from the real save (forests, etc.).

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As an aside, we should open borders to Justinian right now. Doubles Confu autospread chance, gives us better TRs, gives us diplo. We should have done that before Sailing already IMO

Not sure what you mean here. It looks like you're on schedule, except for the pigs worker, who will be late to chop, which will delay the Mids to T118.

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We ere 1 turn late till size 4, which meant we were 1 turn late till turn 5, and then 6, so the whip is delayed 1 turn, the academy id delayed 1 turn, which means the pyramids is also delayed.

We can get a 100% GS chance if we wait till it is born before whipping. We would get the scientist on T116, the settler on t117, and the Pyramids on T118.

WB east sounds good, although it looks like a one tile island if I had to guess. EP on Zara is fine too. It'd be nice to keep tabs on Justinian's power graph too.

Agree on OB with Justinian - we might get a lucky religion spread. I'd also go ahead and revolt to Confucianism as well.

I'm ok with the slight GE pollution in Delhi.

So what do people want to tech next? I would still like to go alphabet--currency, as currency alone won't let us get money for our techs and I'm not convinced Justinian or Zara will tech it any time soon.

mdy said:

No we are not. If you look at our production figures you will see that the stone bonus, and the bureaucracy bonus are not included in the manufactured goods demographic. A far more likely explanation is that a settler/worker is being built in a high seafood capital.

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That would still show as Crop Yield (as in our case with Bombay).
It's a high hammer count, but that doesn't mean anything really. We'd be close to it if we didn't constantly whip our cities. Without stone, that's still a long way to 'Mids. I'd go for 100% GS still.

I'm ok with WB going east. Agree on OB.

Stay with Currency until the end of this set? It doesn't make much of a difference.