More info from an E3 demo

mjs0

mjs0

The 4th X
Joined
Nov 9, 2001
Messages
1,063
Location
Central Florida
Some interesting additional info and confirmations in this writeup:

Puppets give you their gold, culture and science but not production:
You can set up a puppet government, which gives your civ all of the resources of that city (gold, culture and science) but you cannot direct its production. This way, the amount of unhappiness that would be produced from a captured city is reduced.
Click to expand...
Embarking units takes a turn:
"You don't have to build transports and fill them up with units anymore," Shirk said. "Now, they take the turn, and load themselves into the water. It's like they're loading themselves onto a ship, but they're defenseless.
Click to expand...
Cultural victory requires filling 6 of 10 social policy trees then building a wonder:
There are ten trees in total, and each has about four or five policies to unlock within them, but you'd be hard-pressed to unlock them all. "If you fill 6 out of the 10 trees, fill 'em all up, that unlocks a world wonder called Utopia. It's the biggest wonder in the game. If you build it, and no one stops you from building it, that will win a culture victory,
Click to expand...
Wonder bonus from Tradition.Aristocracy:
...under the Tradition tree is a policy called Aristocracy, which gives +33 percent bonus to building wonders. The goal is for these policies to be important for everybody, and not just the culture players.
Click to expand...
More confirmation of 1 civ = 1 vote:
Gone are the days of massive vote numbers in the U.N. tied to population; every civ and city state gets only one vote.
Click to expand...
More on the science victory:
"One of the small differences that we added in is that when you build your spaceship parts, they have to be driven by truck to the capital for assembly," Shirk told me. "So there is always that little bit of possibility of killing something out in the open to stop someone from achieving a space race victory.
Click to expand...
 
Embarking units takes a turn:
Click to expand...
As I expected. I wonder if it has to be a full turn; ie unit has to have full movement points to start the load. Or if loading just takes up all remaining movement points of a unit.

but you'd be hard-pressed to unlock them all
Click to expand...
Sounds like culture points are the only binding constraint. No exclusivity.
So, you can have Aristocracy from tradition tree AND liberal democracy=type things from the Liberty tree, and get both benefits simultaneously.

I don't like this. Social policies should have tradeoffs, not be More is Better.

More confirmation of 1 civ = 1 vote:
Click to expand...
Particularly with vassalization gone and puppet states being different, it sounds like there are strong incentives to get complete kills on your enemies.
 
Ahriman said:
As I expected. I wonder if it has to be a full turn; ie unit has to have full movement points to start the load. Or if loading just takes up all remaining movement points of a unit.
Click to expand...
Without playing the game and seeing it in context it is tough to predict which would be more balanced. I would imagine this is the sort of final tweaking and balancing that will go on over the next couple of months and it may not be written in stone yet.
Sounds like culture points are the only binding constraint. No exclusivity.
So, you can have Aristocracy from tradition tree AND liberal democracy=type things from the Liberty tree, and get both benefits simultaneously.

I don't like this. Social policies should have tradeoffs, not be More is Better.
Click to expand...
When I heard Meier speak during the GDC keynote this was exactly the sort of thing I feared; most choices will be between one bonus and another with fewer tradeoffs that actually include negatives.
Particularly with vassalization gone and puppet states being different, it sounds like there are strong incentives to get complete kills on your enemies.
Click to expand...
...and yet strangely, at least one victory condition for warmongers has been changed to deemphasize this by requiring that only capitals be taken.
 
This is interesting, the new razing mechanic: When you do get to take over a city, you now have a third option instead of capturing it outright and adding it to your civ or razing the city to the ground (which now takes a turn for each population size number).

The description of the spaceship traveling to the capital:And Here: We got to see this in action during the demo. Playing as Rome, we used a gunship helicopter unit to scope out Montezuma's territory and saw that he was trucking the last spaceship part, the cockpit, to his capital of Tenochitlan. Because he's deployed quite a defensive position, with anti-tank guns and SAM units entrenched on a mountain range, there's no way that the Romans could take the capital through conventional weapons. That left only one possibility: Nuke 'em back to the Stone Age.

The ICBM blast animation was impressive, filling the screen with white light and leaving a huge mushroom cloud over what was left of the Aztec capital. Tanks that were conveniently placed outside the blast range of the nuke then steamrolled into the city and captured it. Oh, and the spaceship cockpit was incinerated, stopping Montezuma's space victory in its tracks. [/B]

This sounds like a nice addition. Its nothing major, but can definetly make things that more fun.
 
Tylerryan79 said:
This is interesting, the new razing mechanic: When you do get to take over a city, you now have a third option instead of capturing it outright and adding it to your civ or razing the city to the ground (which now takes a turn for each population size number).
Click to expand...
I missed that on my first read through...but I really like it...great change.
 
When I heard Meier speak during the GDC keynote this was exactly the sort of thing I feared; most choices will be between one bonus and another with fewer tradeoffs that actually include negatives.
Click to expand...
I don't mind every social policy giving only bonuses, but I do mind that you can simultaneously run all policies at once.

I would have done it differently; rather than 10 policy fields, you might have 5 pairs of fields, each of which is a pair of polar opposites. Liberty/Tyranny, Centralization/Decentralization, Quantity/Quality, Religion/Enlightenment (or something), and so on.

Suppose you purchase Liberty level 1; that then blocks progress in Tyranny. You can then buy Liberty 2. But if you want to change over to Tyranny, you have 2 levels so you can switch to Tyranny 2, but you have to pay a revolution cost to do this (in culture, or anarchy, or both) and then you get the benefits of Tyranny 1 and Tyranny 2, but lose the benefits of Liberty.

Otherwise its like if you could simultaneously run all the civics in Civ4 simultaneously, and learning Fascism or Democracy just let you add that bonus onto the top.

I missed that on my first read through...but I really like it...great change.
Click to expand...
Agreed; they can't destroy your city if you're in a position to take it back in a turn or two. Very nice.
 
Yeah, that razing adjustment is really cool... and kind of gruesome when you think about it :).

Slowly grinding down an enemy populace. Seems like that would generate some unhappiness. And the Annexation factor is cool, too. Nice changes.
 
Ahriman said:
I don't mind every social policy giving only bonuses, but I do mind that you can simultaneously run all policies at once.
Click to expand...
Yep, this was my point, just poorly worded. All you do is accumulate bonuses and you don't have to relinquish existing ones (which would be a negative) in order to adopt a new one.
 
If it takes several turns to raze a town then an opposing force should beable to take it back in that time span. Sounds awesome
 
Yep, the new razing mechanic is very cool.
 
Just a guess; but I wonder if a city being razed can't defend itself from recapture.

I also wonder if a newly conquered enemy city starts with ~1 hit point or something and only gradually builds up defenses, so that it is easily reconquered unless defended by units in the surrounding area. Or maybe defensive structures get destroyed when the city is captured.

I'm guessing cultural defenses for cities are probably gone; defense probably depends on population size and buildings (and tech, I guess).
 
Tylerryan79 said:
This is interesting, the new razing mechanic: When you do get to take over a city, you now have a third option instead of capturing it outright and adding it to your civ or razing the city to the ground (which now takes a turn for each population size number).
Click to expand...



I swear I remember a Civ IV mod with this same exact feature. Does anybody else remember such a thing, or have a link to it? Anyway, I love this change. It really didn't make much sense the old way. When you decide to start razing the city after capturing it, I wonder if you can change your mind a few turns down the road before it's completely destroyed.

Also, with the puppet state thing. Do we know if the puppet state gets a vote in the UN? I'm guessing not. Also, it's been mentioned that you can later assimilate a puppet state. I'm curious what conditions may have to be met to allow this, or if you can do it whenever you want.
 
About the social policy thing, and how everyone for the most part is concerned about the stacking effect (Im with you here, I hope we are missing something) remember Jon Shafer said that some of the policies only work during certain eras, so the bonuses aren't going to stack the whole game. But that being said, I also dont like how basicly, as Ahriman puts it, you can be a tyrant and a democracy all at once. Hopefully like I said, we are missing some key peice of information.
 
A puppet is still a civ, isn't it?
Click to expand...
It sounds like a puppet state is really a city you conquer that gives you its income, for whom you don't have to pay maintenance (or suffer unhappiness) but you don't get to choose what it builds.

Unclear if it becomes part of your civ in border terms or not.

It feels a bit like they're strongly encouraging you to use this as a "governor" type feature.
 
"You don't have to build transports and fill them up with units anymore," Shirk said. "Now, they take the turn, and load themselves into the water. It's like they're loading themselves onto a ship, but they're defenseless.

This is probably the worst tweak I read about so far. Land units disembarking and reembarking anywhere in the map???!!!:confused::confused:
No more aiming to the enemy's vessels in order to cut off his logistic capabilities!! (seems less strategy)
How it will be possible to defend your land properly with rival soldiers moving back and forth into the water???!!!
Soldiers going through sea are defenseless?? At least galleys and galleons had a chance to defend an evade by themselves. LAnd units and sea units are diferent categories and neither should be made amphibious.
So many new situations to deal with.
 
How it will be possible to defend your land properly with rival soldiers moving back and forth into the water???!!!
Click to expand...
Soldiers going through sea are defenseless?? At least galleys and galleons had a chance to defend an evade by themselves.
Click to expand...

You realize these are contradictory concerns, right?

As to answering:
a) Use a navy
b) Use a navy. [You can still stack a land unit in transport form with a naval unit, or you could just clear out their navy first - they can't hide it in ports anymore]

So many new situations to deal with.
Click to expand...
Which is good, no? We don't want Civ 4.1.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

diamond geezer
AI questions
Replies
4
Views
312
diamond geezer
diamond geezer
B
Hoping someone will have a clue why my game is so different now that got it working again
Replies
9
Views
752
billybgame
B
I
Indonesian Civilization : Aceh Sultanate - Modern Age Civilization Concept
Replies
0
Views
371
ibnu
I
MarqFJA87
Global Social Policy Happiness?
Replies
9
Views
958
MarqFJA87
MarqFJA87
I
(Civ Concept) Indonesian Empire in Antiquity Age and Modern Age Civilization
Replies
0
Views
252
ibnu
I
Back
Top Bottom